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19 Tourists Killed and 22 Injured in Indonesia Attack; Hostages Rescued from Museum; Two Attackers Dead and Three on the Run; Tunisia Attack Detailed; Ambassador Threatened. Aired 1-130p ET

Aired March 18, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 pm here in Washington, 6:00 pm in Tunis, 7:00 pm in Jerusalem, 2:00 am in Tokyo. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with breaking news out of Tunisia, where a trip to view some of the world's great archaeological treasures turned to tragedy.

[13:00:01] Tourists in the capital, Tunis, were caught in a militant attack near the Bardo Museum. The nation's prime minister says 17 tourists were killed, others were taken hostages. Now, those hostages are freed, rescued in an anti-militant operation.

Our Atika Shubert is digging into this story. She's joining us from London. Atika, bring us up to speed on what happened.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the prime minister has said that 19 people have been killed in this attack. But that number is likely to rise. A number of people were evacuated, wounded, to nearby hospitals. Some of them critically. So, we're keeping a watch on that.

But what we understand happened was that around mid-morning, at least two gunmen stormed the Bardo Museum which is connected to the country's parliament. They then opened fire on tourists as they were disembarking from a bus. And, as you can imagine, it sent everybody in the area into a panic. You can see those pictures there of people inside the museum that were trapped there, trying to escape. Security there was also trying to usher tourists out of the area.

The gunmen also then went into the museum and took a number of people hostage. Now, the stand-off went off -- went on for about two hours. Ultimately, though, however, security officials ended up killing two gunmen and say the operation is over in the area. But the three of the -- up to three attackers may still be at large, so there is a manhunt now ongoing in the city of Tunis -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We know these were terrorists, militant Islamists, as they're being described by the Tunisian government. Do we -- do we know if they were directly affiliated with ISIS or Al Qaeda or some other terror group?

SHUBERT: No group has claimed responsibility. All we have is that description from the spokesman of the interior ministry saying they're Islamists. And there are a number of groups this could be. Ansar Al Sharia has grown exponentially in Tunisia in the last two years. But Al Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb operates there. And there are militants in next door Libya. And, of course, ISIS has been calling for attacks in Tunisia as well.

And it's important to remember, Wolf, that Tunisia has the most number of jihadi fighters in Syria and Iraq, more than 3,000 by the government's estimates. And over the last few years, hundreds have been returning home. So, Turkey -- Turkish security officials have been warning for some time of a possibility of an attack like this, but, clearly, they weren't able to stop it this time -- Wolf.

BLITZER: But compare it to its neighbor, Libya, of course Tunisia has been very, very positive, in terms of fall -- the fallout from what used to be called the Arab Spring, relatively peaceful. A lot of tourists still go there, as we see today, Atika. So, this is highly unusual for an attack like this to occur in Tunisia.

SHUBERT: Absolutely. In fact, Tunisia was the birthplace of the Arab Spring. And it was considered the success story because it had successful, peaceful elections. But even as the lid was lifted off the political landscape in Tunisia, it also meant this explosion of very extremist political Islamist thought. And we have seen a number of groups like this operating in the area.

And, again, the influence of ISIS cannot be underestimated. So, it's particularly shocking for Tunisians, because when they've seen attacks like this, it's always happened perhaps on the borders of Libya or Algeria, but never specifically targeting a tourist attraction like this -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Atika, stand by. I want to go to -- inside Tunis right now. The journalist, Yasmine Ryan, is joining us live from the Tunisian capital. Yasmine, tell us what's -- what you're seeing right now. I assume there's a significant military presence. Any tourists around?

YASMINE RYAN, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: The tourists have all gone. They never actually came outside here on the street. We saw them leaving in buses and they all looked very relieved. So, yes, it's a lot of locals here. Every -- this is such an unusual event in Tunisia that so many people have come, hundreds of people have been here all afternoon, the past five hours, during the attack.

BLITZER: And do authorities there still believe two -- maybe two of these of these militants, or terrorists, whatever you want to call them, still may -- still might be at large?

RYAN: We haven't had any updates on that, but the latest news I had was, yes, they still are at large. So, I imagine the authorities will be doing everything they can to track them down. And, as we know, two of the gunmen were killed on the scene.

BLITZER: Why have so many Tunisians, young Tunisian men mostly, been recruited successful to join up with ISIS, go into Turkey and then cross the border into Syria and join forces with ISIS? Why are so many Tunisian men attracted to ISIS? RYAN: Well, this started as a trend in 2011, actually, and it was --

in the beginning, it started with, I guess, the idea of revolution. Tunisia had the revolution here and then some young men maybe wanted to go to Syria to share the revolution, in the beginning when the protests were so brutal.

[13:05:16] And then, we saw ISIS emerge, only really last year. And so, a lot of the Tunisian fighters -- we don't know how many joined ISIS, but we do know at least 5,000 Tunisians have left over the last few years. And may -- not all of them joined ISIS. Many of them were with the free Syrian army, initially. Many of them have been killed. And -- but, certainly, there was -- for sure there's hundreds, at least, of Tunisians in ISIS.

And whether they're coming back is a big question everybody's really been fairing here for the last couple of years because everybody knew this would be a major cause of instability.

BLITZER: Yes, so many of those hopes from the Arab Spring which originated in Tunis have dissipated.

Tell us about the Bardo Museum which was attacked today right next door to the parliament there in Tunis. I understand it's a major attraction for Europeans and other tourists.

RYAN: Yes. So, the Bardo Museum is the biggest museum in Tunisia, Tunis, because it has a Roman history, Greek history, Tunisian history. A lot of it has beautiful artifacts, mosaics, roman statues, and they're all gathered in this museum. So, when people come to Tunis, this is the museum they come to. And the Tunisian parliament is actually part of the same complex. And it's a palace -- a really beautiful palace as well.

Fortunately for the politicians, the security on the parliament is very tight. That's been the case since there was an assassination on the doorsteps of parliament in mid-2013. So, they -- it's very hard for anyone to get through. And there's a strong military presence even outside the parliament. But not -- that's not the case for the museum, because, obviously, you have tourists coming in and out. And, unfortunately, that's what we've seen happen today.

BLITZER: So, it looks to me, Yasmine, as if this attack, these gunmen, they simply went to that museum with the intention of killing westerners, as many of them as possible for whatever sick reason they might have. Is that your understanding as well?

RYAN: Yes. So, the understanding -- and I'm here with the Tunisian crowd speaking to a lot of them over the past few hours and everyone is really upset. And the people I was speaking to feel like it's an attack on Tunisia, because actually the economy depends on tourism. Tourism and phosphate are the biggest industries here. And tourism has really suffered since 2010, 2011 with the uprising and everything.

And so, last -- late last year, we had the presidential elections, the parliamentary elections. And people were really hoping 2015 would bring some kind of stability. The economy might be able to get back on track. And now this is just right at the beginning of the tourism season. So, there's -- whoever planned it was -- obviously knew what they were doing and there's a lot of symbolism in that, and clearly planning to derail Tunisia's tourist season.

BLITZER: It's a real pity. It's real sad. I remember visiting Tunisia a few years ago. I covered a visit there by the then secretary of state, Hillary Clinton. It was peaceful. It was right in the aftermath of the Arab Spring. There were such high hopes, walking around was easy. The security situation was obviously very, very good. But, unfortunately, these attacks could undermine all of that.

Yasmine Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. Be careful over there. We'll stay in close touch with you.

We're also standing by for a State Department briefing here in Washington. We're going to bring it to you live as soon as it happens. There, you see a live picture coming from the State Department.

Also, once again, no country has more fighters from the outside joining ISIS than Tunisia. So, could today's bloody terror attack be part of that war as well? We have our experts standing by.

[13:09:20]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're just getting this disturbing announcement in from the State Department here in Washington. The United States embassy in Djibouti will be closed to the public tomorrow in order to review security procedures there. Statements saying all U.S. citizens are encouraged to maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to enhance your personal security. Another U.S. embassy shutting down at least for a day because of security concerns. The other day, the U.S. embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, was shut down for consular services for a couple of days. Several U.S. embassies have completely shut down, including in Sanaa, Yemen in recent weeks, certainly in Tripoli, Libya the embassy has been shut down, Damascus, Syria, as we all know. So, it's a worrisome situation of what's going on.

But our -- right now, I want to get back to our top story, at least 17 tourists, mostly Europeans, killed in an attack in the Tunisian capital of Tunis. Joining us to talk about links to terror groups, our CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank. He's joining us from New York. And joining us from Tunis, Youssef Cherif. He's a Tunisian political analyst. Paul, there's been no claim of responsibility, as not -- at least not yet. What's your suspicion? How likely is ISIS linked to this terror attack at that Bardo Museum in Tunis?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I think it's very -- this could be ISIS, clearly. I mean, more than 3,000 Tunisians have gone to Syria and Iraq. Many of them joining up with ISIS. There are more than 500 that have returned. Also, earlier this week, a group called Jund Al Khalifa in Tunisia said that a pledge of allegiance to ISIS was imminent. So, it's certainly possible this attack could be linked to that. The timing here could be linked for maximum impact.

But as you say, there's been no claim of responsibility yet. There's also a powerful grouping called Ansar Al Sharia in Tunisia. They have up to 40,000 followers in the country. A few years ago, they were responsible for trying to storm the U.S. embassy in Tunis. So, there are various jihadist groups that could be responsible. But I think that the scale of sophistication in this attack, the apparent preplanning all points towards a major group like ISIS.

BLITZER: Youssef, Paul makes a good point, as many as 3,000 Tunisians apparently left Tunisia to go join ISIS in Syria, that, supposedly, is more than any other country. What's your analysis of what happened today in Tunis?

[13:15:13] YOUSSEF CHERIF, POLITICAL ANALYST, TUNISIA: I mean it's correct to say that Tunisia has been the biggest number of jihadists. But then you look at Morocco or Jordan, they span (ph) something like 2,000 and so fighters. So it's not - it's not like Tunisia is the one that emerges above all of them.

What happened today is clearly something that was planned for a while now. We received a lot of threats, mainly from ISIS related groups that were threatening Tunisia as, first of all, as kind of a secular regime, as a civilian state, not a bureaucratic state, and, two, Tunisia as a democracy. Tunisia was clearly threatened from the beginning by these groups that totally refused democracy, totally refused the fact that in a country people can debate about all kinds of topics, be it politics, or religion or else.

So I think what happened today is the achievement of these threats. And maybe there would be other attacks or maybe this is something like the "Charlie Hebdo" attack in Paris that was limited to two days of attacks and that's it. Now, I think and I hope security forces will be more aware and more ready because, you know, the place where the attack happened today was not very well protected. You could get in without going through any scanner, without going through any serious security check. So - and this is what happens. So I think this is a wake-up call. A wake-up call for the Tunisian security forces or for the Tunisians in general to be more aware that they are in a country surrounded by actually Libya, which is a country facing civil war, and in a - in a - in a dangerous moment where attackers can attack anywhere, anytime, bit it in Europe, in other Arab countries or in Tunisia. And this finally happened today, sadly.

BLITZER: Very sadly indeed. What worries me is that the chaos next door in Libya, with ISIS now beginning to take hold at least of some parts of Libya, we hope it doesn't spill over into Tunisia, which has been so, so radically different over these past few years.

Youssef Cherif, Paul Cruickshank, we'll get back to you.

But there's more breaking news to share with our viewers this hour. Threats to the life of America's most high-profile ambassador. Police in Japan, they're now looking into threats against Caroline Kennedy as the nation hosts another American who could be a major target.

And right now, the race among potential candidates for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination here in the United States isn't even close, but will it stay that way? We have brand-new CNN poll numbers. Much more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:17] BLITZER: There's more breaking news we're following. Tokyo police are now investigating death threats against the United States ambassador to Japan, Caroline Kennedy. Japanese media reporting the threats were phoned in in English to the U.S. embassy in Tokyo last month. We're awaiting a State Department news briefing. Potentially they could be providing more information. We'll have live coverage. You're looking at live pictures from the State Department here in Washington right now.

All this comes just two weeks after the U.S. ambassador to South Korea was injured in a knife attack, raising serious questions about the type of security American ambassadors around the world are afforded.

Let's discuss what's going on. CNN correspondent David Molko is joining us from Hong Kong with the latest on this threat to the U.S. ambassador in Tokyo.

David, what do we know about precisely the nature of this threat? What's going on?

DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, an extraordinarily sensitive time in the region given everything that's happened here over the past few weeks. You mentioned that attack on the U.S. ambassador in South Korea. The threats were phoned in last month in February to the U.S. embassy, not only against Caroline Kennedy, the U.S. ambassador, but they were also directed against another U.S. interest, the consul general in Okinawa, that southern Japanese island with a heavy military -- U.S. military presence.

The threats - this is all coming from Japanese press. Some saying they were from a male who phoned them in. He spoke English. The Japanese police in Tokyo, also the U.S. embassy, not responding to requests for comment. But we did have a statement come in from the State Department. Quote, "we take any threats to U.S. diplomats seriously. We take every step possible to protect our personnel. We are working with the Japanese government to ensure the necessary measures are in place."

Wolf, this coming at a very sensitive time, not only, of course, with Caroline Kennedy, the U.S. ambassador, being as high profile as she is, but with other high-profile officials, former President Bill Clinton and the first lady in Japan.

BLITZER: The first lady, Michelle Obama, she's in Japan now, what, for three days. I assume security -- it's always very intense for her. I assume in the aftermath of these threats, it has even been increased. Are you hearing that, David?

MOLKO: Yes, Wolf, she has a jam-packed schedule in Tokyo and beyond. She's meeting with the emperor and the empress. Also some very public places. She's going to Kyoto, the Japanese capital, later - imperial capital later in the week. She'll be visiting one of the most famous Buddhist temples there. That is outdoors on the side of a mountain. Keep in mind, these threats did come in in February. So if they have been assessed to be credible, it's fairly certain that the plans for her trip, they have taken these threats into account.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Which would be wise. You always want to err on the side of caution on these kinds of matters.

David Molko, thanks very much.

Let's get some more analysis of what's going on from someone who knows firsthand about the security U.S. ambassadors receive. Tom Schieffer served as the United States ambassador to Japan from 2005 to 2009 and he earlier served as the U.S. ambassador to Australia.

Ambassador, is security surrounding American diplomats, especially ambassadors, tight enough right now? Because we know the threats seem to be increasing all the time.

THOMAS SCHIEFFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN: Well, Wolf, we live in a dangerous world, as you've been reporting this afternoon. And, unfortunately, a U.S. ambassador that serves anywhere in the world is a target. There were death threats against me in Australia and in Japan as well. There was an off-duty policeman from out of Tokyo city that threw a Molotov cocktail into the compound one day. So I'm afraid that this is not unusual.

[13:25:08] But one thing that is important to remember is that the Japanese government, in particular, will take this very seriously. They provide the bulk of the security for an American ambassador. They are aware, obviously, of the past things that have happened. President Kennedy's ambassador to Japan, Edwin O. Reischauer, was actually stabbed and almost fatally stabbed while he was serving in Japan. So these are not, unfortunately, things that are unusual.

But I am confident that the Japanese will do everything they can to protect Ambassador Kennedy. She's a good ambassador. She works hard at the job. She's out in Japan. And I, of course, am concerned for her security, but I am confident that the Japanese will do everything they can to protect her.

BLITZER: I'm sure they will. But it does follow two weeks ago, Ambassador Mark Lippert, the United States ambassador in South Korea and Seoul, he was at an event, he had one bodyguard, we're told, with him at the time. And you saw some individual come up with a knife, slash his face, his cheek, slash his wrist. He spent a few days at the hospital. Fortunately he's OK right now. But it was pretty terrifying. What worried me at the time, and I wonder if it worried you, that there potentially could be copycats out there. How much of a concern is that?

SCHIEFFER: Well, I think you have that concern. But - but I'm always concerned about security at an embassy because we are targets. But really the threats from individuals come in three categories, mentally deranged, that's what happened to Ambassador Reischauer, the ideologues that have, for some reason, taken some extreme view, and there's certainly some in Japan that exist that way, and then the terrorists. And as you've been reporting today, terrorists are everywhere in the world. And none of us is safe from the threat. We just have to do everything we can to protect it.

But it's a pretty dangerous part of the world. I mean Americans sometimes don't often comprehend that. But you have a situation with North Koreans who have tried to blow up the South Korean cabinet in the past. You have just kind of garden variety extremists. And a lot is going on in that part of the world. It's a very important part of the world as far as our security profile. We have a lot of assets there. There are 50,000 American troops that are stationed in Japan, more than anywhere else in the world. So it's a top-flight target for people who want to do harm. But I also think we have to be careful -

BLITZER: And there - and there are some Japanese, a small number, ambassador, but there are some Japanese -

SCHIEFFER: Very small.

BLITZER: Who hate the fact that the U.S. still has a military presence in Okinawa and elsewhere. They're very adamant about that. Hopefully they won't take any physical or any threatening action. But as you well know firsthand, they hate the fact the U.S. still is there.

SCHIEFFER: Well, there are over half of the troops that are stationed in Japan are in Okinawa. So there's a tension that always exists there between the people in Okinawa and the American presence. But we've managed that over the years. But it is a potentially volatile situation.

But I think we also ought to be careful here not to panic over these revelation of these threats. They really are not unusual. And they are followed up on -- every one of them is followed up on and with a thorough investigation. But I can guarantee you that the Japanese are doing everything that they can this morning and this evening to be sure that Ambassador Kennedy is safe, as are they doing it for the consul general down in Okinawa.

BLITZER: And the first lady of the United States is there as well.

SCHIEFFER: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Ambassador Tom Schieffer, the former U.S. ambassador to Japan, thanks very much for joining us.

I want to go to the State Department right now. The briefing has begun. Let's listen in to Jen Psaki.

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Where gunmen killed 19 people and wounded more than 20 others. I will just note, those numbers were based on the prime minister's numbers he gave at his press conference.

We extend our heartfelt sympathies to the victims' families and loved ones. We commend Tunisian authorities' rapid response to today's (INAUDIBLE) violence and their efforts to resolve the hostage situation and restore calm. The United States stands with the Tunisian people at this difficult time and continues to support the Tunisian government's efforts to advance a secure, prosperous and democratic Tunisia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um, OK, so before getting into broader questions about what this might mean for U.S./Tunisia relations, can you - are there any implications, security-wise, for them to see or American government personnel in Tunisia as a result of this attack?

PSAKI: Well, you may have seen that we also put out an emergency message from our embassy to inform them -- to alert U.S. citizens to an ongoing security situation around the Bardo Museum in downtown Tunis. The embassy remains open and is located 10 miles from the museum. All appoint - all, excuse me, employees have been accounted for, informed of the situation and urged to avoid the museum at and surrounding vicinity.

[13:30:13] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to the best of your knowledge, none of the victims of this attack in the museum or connected to the museum attack were American citizens?