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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Police Shootings Examined; Tunis Terror Attack Details; Former Air Force Member Allegedly Tried to Join ISIS; Latest from Boston Marathon Bombing Trial. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired March 18, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: But I will say this. I analyze this in two respects. Number one, was there an imminent threat posed that created, you know, sort of a deadly situation? Did they fear for their own life or did they fear for serious bodily harm? That's number one.

[12:30:01] Even if you get to that step and answer yes, what concerns me and troubles me greatly is step number two. Is the force you use proportionate to the threat posed? There needs to be -- should be and is a use of force continuum wherein police officers generally have pepper spray for a reason. They generally have a taser for a reason. They generally have a night stick for a reason...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: That can be debated and argued, absolutely. And, you know, look, ultimately it will be. There's litigation, (inaudible).

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Right.

JACKSON: We could examine, re-examine. There might be a jury that's convenient to look at that. But there needs to be some continuum where in the force that you use is proportionate to the danger that's post and we have to evaluate, should we shoot now and ask questions later. That's troubling a point.

BANFIELD: I mentioned that the civil lawsuit against the Dallas PD, it's against the two members of the Dallas PD and that is ongoing and we'll continue to watch that. Danny and Joey, thank you for that, no matter how you (inaudible), that is just so awful, especially that mother...

JACKSON: Howling.

BANFIELD: Howling. She's in the middle of it all. It's just awful. And Dennis Ruth (ph), thank you so much for your insight as well. Very helpful to understanding this and I think such incredible information and so necessary for so many members across the country.

We are still watching that picture on the bottom right-hand side of your screen. We're expecting that live news briefing at the U.S. State Department at any moment, possibly two updates here. An update on the terror attack at a museum in Tunisia, and then of course those death threats being made against Ambassador Caroline Kennedy in Japan. Also coming up, it is hard enough to believe the stories about troubled American teens running off to join ISIS, but what about a United States military veteran? That man just appeared in a federal court in America, and you guessed it. The charge is trying to help out ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:25] BANFIELD: Still with our breaking news, we're expecting any moment now a live news briefing at the United States Department or the United States State Department and hopefully an update on that terror attack at a museum in Tunisia, 19 tourists deed. Two killers also shot dead.

There's also the story of the death threats against the United States Ambassador to Japan, Caroline Kennedy. Hopefully, an update on two of those, you know, breaking stories that we're following here at CNN. We'll continue to watch that story for you and take you to the state department immediately as it begins.

In the meantime, in federal court in Brooklyn just last hour, a New Jersey man who wore this nation's uniform for four years as a service member, pleaded not guilty to trying to join ISIS. You heard right, a former serviceman.

Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh is an air force veteran and former military contractor who was arrested back in January after officials in Turkey suspected he was headed into Syria for no good. And they sent him back to Egypt, that's where he had come from. Egypt sent him back home where the FBI found among other things, a letter on Pugh's laptop that in part reads, "I am a sword against the oppressor, and a shield for the oppressed. I will use the talents and skills given to me by Allah to establish and defend the Islamic States." Kind of hard to argue with that.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is just out of Tairod Pugh's arraignment. My guess is that those words might have come up at the arraignment or maybe not? What exactly happened?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, they didn't. It was very, very brief. You know, this is a guy who took a oath to defend the Constitution of the U.S., the U.S. now saying that he has taken an oath basically to defend ISIS. He appeared in court, he looked to be in good shape, every close-cropped hair. A very heavy beard, a t- shirt he -- and khaki pants he was wearing. Handcuffed.

The only thing he said during the entire time was his name, his lawyer plead not guilty on his behalf to two charges. One, aiding and abetting a foreign terrorist organization, namely ISIS or ISIL as they call it in courts. And two, destroying evidence, namely four USB drives that he's (inaudible) and destroy this past January when he was arrested.

In the complaint, it does lay out a bit of the roadmap to this individual's radicalization. In '86 to '90, he served as a mechanic in the air force, in '98 he converted to Islam says the complaint. In 2001, he worked for American Airlines, and complained or talked to one of his colleagues there, expressing a support for Osama Bin Laden at that time. In 2002, he worked -- he had mentioned that he wanted to go to Chechnya and engage in Jihad or fights on behalf of Islamic fighters in Chechnya.

In 2009, 2010, Ashleigh get this, he worked for DynCorp in Iraq as a U.S. government contractor. He worked there in Iraq, servicing U.S. military planes. In 2014, he departed for Bahrain. That's the last that they heard of him. And then he was picked up just this past January. We saw him for the first time today. They next time we will see him is probably May 8th when a status conference is scheduled.

The judge in this case says, "This thing is clear cut. I want this thing to move forward. I want it done by this summer."

BANFIELD: Wow.

MARQUEZ: Despite the complexity of so many of these terror cases, this one he wants done by this summer, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Miguel, I'm just looking at the, you know, the beginnings of this case. This is the evidence that we think we do know about. And apart from that love letter to his wife expressing that he's a mujahideem, you know, hellbent on whatever. He also had charts with crossing points between Turkey and Syria, allegedly internet searches for borders control by the Islamic State. Loads and loads of propaganda videos, pictures of airplanes and guns in an airplane toilet, and all sorts of terrorist spots that would be right for attack.

Is there a lot more that we don't know about?

MARQUEZ: It is not clear. It sounds like most of what they have is in those documents. The one that the defense attorney wanted to see was everything that was on that computer. So, that's one thing that will slow down the process a little bit if that. But all of that evidence, the judge in court said today, "Look, it's pretty straightforward. We have all these stuff on him. I think we can move forward pretty quickly with this one."

BANFIELD: Well, the federal court and that's not going to be pleasant if he gets a sentence because they stick pretty tight to those sentences.

[12:40:01] All right -- and it's hard to be the federal wrap, too. Miguel Marquez, thank you for that. We do appreciate that.

Coming up next as if there weren't a day that goes by without a big development in that man's life and his latest case, a millionaire murder suspect Robert Durst, he is now on suicide watch. So, they've had to move him to another facility in Louisiana.

All of this as he awaits his expedition to L.A. on a murder wrap and then of course those charges of a felony gun complaint in that state and some marijuana and the list goes on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: After faltering for decades things are suddenly moving pretty darn quickly in the Robert Durst. Well let's just say one of the cases against in him the murder investigation. We just got the word from the Orleans Parish, the Sheriff police that Durst is a suicide risk which is why he has been transferred to a Louisiana hospital equipped to handle patients with various different illnesses, and at least of documental illnesses.

Last night the authorities did something else. They raided his condo in Houston, just one day after that millionaire real estate air was charged with a big murder wrap in California. It is not clear if this raid was related to that L.A. murder wrap the murder of Susan Berman back in 2000.

Or if the raid of the 14th floor condo was instead related to the weapons and drug charges that he is facing down right now in New Orleans. He is eventually, eventually expected to be extradited to Los Angeles to face down the murder.

I want to talk about this investigation with CNN Legal Correspondent and Attorney herself Jean Casarez who knows her way around the courthouse and knows her way around legal filings too.

I don't understand why it is so difficult to get a peak out of L.A. County on that. What do they have, what kind of files are they keeping close to their vest, where is this case going to go and when do we going to learn what they got on him to charge him with murder.

[12:45:06] JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ashleigh we're right here in the Los Angeles because we know the L.A. District Attorney's Office is waiting for him. They want him here and when we call them and ask them, they say "No comment." But they have to be frustrated because this is getting more and more involved in Louisiana. And I don't think that was the plan when they filed those formal charges several nights ago.

Now, here is the latest, you just said it. He is just been transferred to Hunt Correctional Facility near Baton Rouge Louisiana because of what they believe is his acute medical condition, a suicide watch. But you know Ashleigh can be extremely normal when you're having a high profile case, a high profile defendant or any defendant. There could be a suicide issue, a suicide watch.

Now, what's interesting is it's the sheriff who's in charge of the jail system there that went to the appellate court because the trial judge yesterday allowed him to stay right there in Orleans Parish. The appellate court made an emergency decision "No, we'll transfer him to Hunt Correctional Facility."

Now Dick DeGuerin who does not publically talked very often did give CNN a quote saying that it was in essence of protocol situation to send him there. They don't believe that he had the tendency toward suicide at this point and they believe that local officials may just be trying to get him further away from his attorneys. BANFIELD: Wow, really and then there is Dick DeGuerin saying he plans to fight that arrest warrant where you are in Los Angeles. OK, Jean, you're one of the best in the business that digging out the documents. So, let me know the minute you find something because other than that letter which is very damning. And that admission which may not be an admission on audio tape, I want to know what else they have because first degree murder is very serious anywhere special in L.A. where there's the death penalty.

CASAREZ: That's right.

BANFIELD: Jean Casarez, live for us thank you in Los Angeles.

CASAREZ: Thanks Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Jurors in the Boston Bombing trial are getting a real up- close and personal look at things like 2 inch pipe bomb that even resembled grenade, things that the bomber, the alleged bomber apparently was throwing at police just days after the marathon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12: 50:54] BANFIELD: Today in the Boston bombing trial, jurors are getting a look at just how dangerous and equipped the Tsarnaev brothers were in the days after the marathon attack.

This morning's testimony, all about the forensics from the chaotic days of a manhunt in pipe bombs, even a Tupperware bomb found inside the Mercedes that Johar Tsarnaev was driving after stealing it during a shoot out with Watertown, Massachusetts police.

Alexandra Field is live outside of the courthouse in Boston. So Alexandra we are hearing that there was a -- a cart was wheeled in with bags upon bags of evidence, what did they unpacked?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the jury actually got to see three of these explosives and two of them never detonated and one of them was never set off and what some of these pipe bombs that were two inches in diameter, several inches long, heavy to hold when (inaudible) testified.

These are bombs that were filled with explosive powder and D.D.s and glue. Two of them were freed by police officers we heard, but they never detonated. The other bombs was found in the back of the Mercedes that the suspects have been driving.

It was a Tupperware container, Ashleigh, about 12 inches by 12 inches filled with about two or three pounds worth of gunpowder. On top of that, the jury also seen pictures of that Mercedes and is riddled with bullets and I think the impression a lot of people will take away from today is the shots of the inside of that car.

You can actually see, Ashleigh where the bullets penetrated the headrest of both sides of the car. One where Tamerlan had been and one where Johar had been, I think it will leave the jury really wondering how both of these men got out of there at first alive, Tamerlan of course then run over by his brother who takes off in the Mercedes.

BANFIELD: All right, Alexandra Field live for us in Boston. You know, before I let you go though, can I just ask you? It's one thing to see evidence and photographs of evidence, but it's really another thing for jurors to be able to get really up close and personal with things like that, unexploded (inaudible) that if they had exploded we'd be dealing with a lot more dead police officers.

What was the jury like when they were looking at this stuff?

FIELD: Absolutely. This is the mode that really peaks their interests and that's why you hear the prosecution, you know, first the prosecution shows the pictures then they have the witness hold it up in court and describe what it feels like and how they disassembled it. But then they wanted the jury to actually get that up close look and you could see the jury just really craning and peering in, the jurors in the back row just stretching to sort of get that close look, because this is the stuff that really resonates and the prosecution wanted to.

They can see right there in the court room that imminent danger, that threat that was posed to all of the officers who were out there that night in that fire fight where we know so many rounds were fired and we know that other explosives were actually lagged at them and those did detonate. So these were the few that didn't.

BANFIELD: That mortifying handy work that thank God did not explode. Alexandra Field, thank you for that, appreciate it. Live in Boston for us.

Coming up again, any minute now we're expecting that live news briefing at the State Department, hopefully an update on the terror attack of the museum in Tunis. And then of course the details behind these death threats that came in to the Japanese ambassador -- the United States ambassador to Japan, one Caroline Kennedy.

[12:54:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Doctors tell Dan Cummings he would never walk again. With each step, the 34-year-old proves them wrong.

DAN CUMMINGS, WALKING QUADRIPLEGIC: They want to motivate me and tell me I can do something. I'm going to do it.

GUPTA: At 19, Dan was left paralyzed from the chest down after he dove into shallow water.

CUMMINGS: I truly believed as long as I took one day at a time that there was going to come a day that I got up and walked again.

GUPTA: He got frustrated after doing three years of traditional physical therapy. CUMMINGS: I felt that I was being taught how to live in my wheelchair and I wanted to be taught how to get out of my wheelchair.

GUPTA: Dan moved from Boston to San Diego, he wanted to take part and attend exercise program for people who suffered spinal cord injuries. Four years later, he walked out the door.

CUMMINGS: That left me with new missions. I wanted to bring that program here to Boston.

GUPTA: He did just that with the opening of Journey Forward. It's a non-profit dedicated to helping paralyzed people become more mobile.

CUMMINGS: Where we training the nervous system and then hundreds of thousands if not millions of repetitions. Something clicks and you build off of that. You give all the clients the proper tools necessary to get independence. Giving people their life back, quality of life.

GUPTA: Dan's next challenge now is to get insurance companies to cover the $100 an hour cost of therapy that would allow more patients access to the treatment. He would also like to open even more facilities around the country.

CUMMINGS: It tool me seven years before I took my first steps. It's a game of inches, give it everything you have.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Amazing Dan, congratulations. Hey thanks for watching everyone. My colleague Wolf starts right now.