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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Netanyahu Wins Re-election; Rep. Aaron Schock Steps Down; Terrorists on the Loose After 17 Killed in Tunisia; Secret Service Director Grilled on Capitol Hill; Interview with Rep. Mark Meadows. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 18, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Israeli people have spoken, delivering a very big election victory to their prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. The right-wing leader is getting set to serve a historic fourth term in office. About 99 percent of the votes have been counted. Netanyahu has declared victory, of course. His opponent, Isaac Herzog conceded and congratulated Netanyahu.

[11:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It turns out the race wasn't even that close. A lot of people, a lot polls predicted a loss for the prime minister but his Likud Party beat out Herzog's Zionist Union alliance by at least five states. This all after a bitter campaign that including some pretty stunning statements by the prime minister. He promised no Palestinian state would be established as long as he remained in office. Critics say he insulted Arab Israelis and he alienated allies.

Global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, joins us live from Jerusalem.

What's the latest, Elise?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: John, after a week- long push but really in the last few days before the election, Prime Minister Netanyahu made a hard turn to the right saying the Palestinian state would never happen under his watch. As you said, he also urged right wing voters to come out to save him from Arabs coming out in droves trying to try to unseat him. These are very controversial positions and statements. That made the right come out and vote for him. But the problem is, now that they voted for him, they're going to expect him to make good on those campaign pledges.

So today, Prime Minister Netanyahu is saying he wants to form a government as soon as possible. The question is what kind of government is that going to be. If it's going to be a very right wing government, it could really block him in, in terms of policies and maneuvering room and that really could hurt relations with the United States. He needs to start repairing relations with the U.S. But after the statements over the last 48 hours, John, these are totally different from policies that U.S. has been pursuing for the last 50 years trying to negotiate a Palestinian state. So I'm not sure how he really does that. BOLDUAN: That's some of the work that needs to be done in earnest.

That's for sure.

Elise, following it all for us from Jerusalem. Elise, thank you so much. Important note for all of you. Elise Labott is doing a Facebook chat

on the Israeli elections. If you have any questions, post them on CNN.com/facebook. That begins at noon eastern.

BERMAN: Meanwhile, the first congressman born in the 1980s, Aaron Schock, of Illinois, a one-time rising star, is stepping down after questions were raised about his spending habits and lavish lifestyle. The questions began when he spent $40,000 redecorating his office to look like the set of "Downton Abbey."

BOLDUAN: Schock didn't admit wrongdoing in his statement. But there are big questions. He says he's gone, so what's next? Who will replace him? And this, he may have gotten out of an ethics investigation by resigning but did he break the law?

Let's go to Dana Bash who is in Washington now with much more on this.

Dana, I know it was a surprise to everyone including Republican leadership when this announcement came down.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was. By all accounts, it was kind of an impulsive decision that Aaron Schock made to resign yesterday morning. But it did come after the weight of so many different questions about so many different expenses that he made, both taxpayer dollars and related to political donations. He decided I've had enough.

The other issue is that now that he's gone, as you mentioned, the Ethics Committee investigation, which was under way stops because he's not going to be a sitting member of Congress starting in about two weeks.

The question about legal issues, that still is a potential. We have not -- I was just talking to a source who is close to the situation, saying that they still haven't gotten any indication from law enforcement that there is an investigation. Certainly, it is still possible.

But like I was saying yesterday -- and you know, Kate, you know. You've walked these halls -- talking especially now that Aaron Schock has resigned and talking to Republican staffers in the hallways really for the past 24 hours, they've been saying that Aaron Schock didn't fit in. Starting with the fact that he had gorgeous fitted suits where most guys have suits -- and I saw this with admiration -- they have suits that don't fit and they don't have $500 shoes. That is the kind of jet-setting glamorous life that Aaron Schock had. You saw it all over his Instagram. You can see it in what he wore.

And these Republicans are saying, look, it was just a matter of time before this very public lavish kind of attitude could potentially get him, and that's exactly what seemed to have happened. It was just too much too fast and with very, very slopping accounting of how he paid for it all.

BOLDUAN: It's one thing to not fit in as we well know but it's a whole different deal to misuse taxpayer dollars.

BERMAN: Republican Tom Cole, of Oklahoma, said he's a young man that learned an important message.

Dana Bash --

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[11:34:45] BERMAN: -- thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Following our breaking news AT THIS HOUR, at least 17 tourists killed in Tunisia. Two attackers killed but three still at large. Terrorists on the loose. We'll bring you new development right after the break.

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BOLDUAN: We continue to follow a developing situation coming out of Tunisia, the capital city of Tunis, where there was an attack by terrorists, they say, on the parliament and the museum within the parliament complex. You see video, the only video that's been released so far of what looks like tourists terrified, fleeing from the area.

Let's get back to Atika Shubert who is in London for us.

Atika, the numbers have been a little all over the map. I understand you have updates for us.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We understand from the prime minister now that that number of people killed has gone up to 19. It looks like most of them foreign tourists. We've confirmed with Polish officials that one of those killed at least was a Polish national. Also reports that other Europeans might have been killed in this attack. We're still trying to confirm.

In the meantime, we have a few more details on exactly what happened. It appears a gunman opened fire on these tourists as they were disembarking from a bus. They were just about to go into the museum. This is when the initial attack happened. They sprayed fire upon them and this is where many of them were killed. Now, we also know from the prime minister that dozens have been brought to hospitals. Some of them very critically wounded, so that death toll may still rise.

In terms of the attackers themselves, what we have is that two attackers have been killed but, according to the prime minister, there could be as many as three attackers still on the loose.

[11:40:08]

And security officials are trying to track them down now.

BERMAN: Atika Shubert for us in London. Thanks so much. I want to bring in Phil Mudd, a CNN counterterrorism analyst and

former CIA analyst.

Phil, thank you so much for being with us.

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Sure.

BOLDUAN: We just heard from Atika. As of now, there's no claim of responsibility for this attack. Three guys on the loose right now. You've been on the inside in the battle against terrorists. Put us in the shoes of the CIA right now and counterterrorism forces around the world. They see this attack. Three guys on the loose. What do you do right now?

MUDD: You'll see the same thing on the inside at CIA that you see on the outside, John, as you see a bunch of information that doesn't connect. It's going to take a few hours. Maybe a day or two to sort through it. I would expect a claim to come soon if there's a group behind this, they'll want to show they're coming to Tunisia in force. The step you have to take next is identification of the perpetrators and run through data. There will be a lot of security services working in partnership saying are there cell phones involved? Do these guys have addresses you can go search for hard drives? That hunt for data is critical. You'll want to know how they get into Tunisia, if they went elsewhere to train, are they in contact with other conspirators. This tragedy is already done. The next question is, can you prevent the next one.

BOLDUAN: We heard from Paul Cruickshank earlier. When he's looking at it, he says, you said, and we've been there's been no claim of responsibility. You think that's coming pretty soon. Paul thinks there's a possibility this could be the coming-out party for ISIS in Tunisia. What would that mean?

MUDD: There's a two-edge sword for ISIS. I agree with Paul there's been a significant presence of Tunisians, North Africans from across North Africa going for training. That's an historic trend. We've seen that for years going into Iraq before ISIS existed from places like Morocco.

The problem with ISIS is two-fold in this case. Number one, again, like what they do in Iraq, they alienate locals too quickly. They forget that their responsibility as a revolutionary organization is to try to recruit locals. Hard to do that when you're beheading people in Iraq and murdering tourists in Tunisia. The second is the transition from the Arab Spring, as we talked about this morning, has been smooth in Tunisia. In this case, overnight, you alienate moderate Islamists. They're going to say this isn't -- ISIS isn't just America's enemy. It's the enemy of moderate Islamists across the word. They are very powerful in Tunisia. I think this is an ISIS mistake.

BERMAN: Phil, let me give you new information we're just getting in right now. Talking about how Tunis is a hub for tourists from around the world, particularly from Europe. We knew that a cruise ship was docked there, docked in the port of Tunis right now. Now ship officials are saying some passengers from that vessel were at the museum and parliament when this raid happened. I suspect, Phil, the terrorists know that Tunis and this parliament building, this museum, they are sites that tourists want to go and terrorists might even know cruise ship schedules that these types of people would be visiting these sites.

MUDD: I doubt they're looking at cruise ship schedules. But I agree with you. They are looking at sites that can cause economic damage to the government. If you look at the impact in Egypt, for example, of the unrest there, it's been devastating for Egyptian tourism and economy. This is a tragedy for Tunisia, not only the loss of life but the amount of money the country loses when tourists from Europe who are going there in the wintertime to get some sun start to say it's not a great place to go. It's a sad story. It takes not weeks or months, it will take years potentially for some tourists to say it's safe to go there again.

BOLDUAN: Just to reiterate for viewers -- Phil, thank you so much.

Reiterate for our viewers, we know that terrorists, according to sources -- Atika brought this to us -- 19 people were killed in the attack. That number has gone up. Most of them tourists. They believe 17 of them dead were tourists. 20 tourists, two Tunisians wounded in the attack.

BERMAN: We just did hear from the State Department that no Americans were believed to have been killed in this attack. No Americans but 19 dead, many wounded. We're getting new information. We'll have more right after this.

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[11:47:36] BERMAN: New today, more bad behavior for fraternities across the country now under investigation from Pennsylvania to Texas.

Allegedly Kappa Delta Rho posted pictures of naked women on their Facebook page, apparently passed out. The page is also allegedly included drug sales. So far police haven't made any arrests because the Facebook accounts were wiped clean before they could track anyone down. The chapter has been suspended for a year.

BOLDUAN: At Vanderbilt University, they're investigating a possible hate crime at a Jewish fraternity. Three swastikas were spray painted inside the Alpha Escalon Psi house. Police say the vandalism happened after a party.

BERMAN: And a Sigma Psi chapter at the University of Houston has been suspended after disturbing allegations of hazing. The university has not released details but says five students could be expelled if the allegations are true. Right now, those students have been suspended.

BOLDUAN: Just a few minutes ago, the head of another fraternity, one we talked quite a bit about, SAE, they gave a news conference to address how they are combating racial intolerance within its ranks. SAE is the fraternity shut down at the University of Oklahoma after this video came out. Some members caught on video singing a racist chant that referred to lynching. Since then, the fraternity said it's been investigating several other racist incidents at other --

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[11:50:33] BOLDUAN: It's troubling as an isolated incident and that they're finding that it's not an isolated incident at the University of Oklahoma.

Ryan, thanks so much for bringing that to us. We'll be watching it.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, lawmakers grilled Secret Service director, Joe Clancy, over his agency's latest mishap. We brought that to you yesterday. Next, why the heat from Capitol Hill won't be letting up anytime soon.

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[11:55:32] BOLDUAN: Right now, an investigation is under way after a letter intended for the White House tested positive for cyanide. The letter arrived Monday at an off-site mail screening facility. It's now at another site for further testing. Officials aren't saying whether the letter was addressed to President Obama.

BERMAN: Meanwhile, the Secret Service is set to face a new line of questioning after a series of scandals. The latest being a reported drunk-driving incident that involved being very near an investigation. The House Oversight Committee now plans to launch their own search and investigation and hold a hearing next week on the incident.

In front of lawmakers yesterday, Secret Service director, Joe Clancy, addressed the issues facing his agency.

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JOSEPH CLANCY, DIRECTOR, U.S. SECRET SERVICE: I'll say that it's going to take time to change maybe some of this culture. There's no excuse for this information not to come up the chain. That's going to take time because I'm going to have build trust with our workforce. And the best way for me to work -- or earn that trust with our workforce is by my actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It's going to take time. We also had a private briefing, the director did, with some key members of Congress.

One who was there, Republican Congressman Mark Meadows.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Inside that private meeting, you saw video of this incident where these agents were allegedly driving, perhaps after having had some drinks, perhaps driving through an investigation scene. That video, you say, raises more new questions.

REP. MARK MEADOWS, (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, without a doubt, John, it does. And it's not only the questions revolving around this incident, but why did it take so long to get to the director? What actions are going to be taken? The director saying it's going to take time. Really, what it's going to take is action. What we've got to do is make sure that not only this incident but perhaps a lack of transparency in terms of the problems that are really systemic within the agency, they must be addressed. And it left a lot more questions, indeed.

BOLDUAN: What are those questions, though? When you leave a closed it have door briefing, you assume you're going to have some answers and some clarity as to the situation. It was suggested by the director that the video was much less sensational than the original reports had kind of suggested. What did you think?

MEADOWS: Well, Kate, they were less sensational than perhaps what I envisioned from reading reports. It was less sensational there. But as you mentioned yesterday, you've been reporting on this for over three years. And what we have is we expect the very best. What decisions were made? Why did supervisors make decisions to let people go home? And why was a sobriety test not given? What were some of the other issues with regards to the supervisory personnel there on the ground? So, yes, less, perhaps -- I had envisions of it blowing through a barricade. And that's not what I saw. But I did see a lot of other things that said, why were those decisions made? That's what we hope to get to the bottom of on Tuesday.

BERMAN: In some ways, the decisions, the management issues are more serious than any one thing that happened on the ground. Who made the decision to allow these agents to drive home? Were they in a condition to drive home? And how on earth do you explain five days before telling the director?

MEADOWS: Well, John, you're spot-on. And really what we're going to be focused on, we believe this particular instance is a symptom and it is really not the illness. The illness is not only the culture but the decision-making, the trying to keep it away from those that would perhaps shine light on the problems. And yet, the vast majority of the Secret Service are dedicated employees willing to do it. They get frustrated because they're working right alongside this lack of transparency. They know what's right and wrong. And, again, we hope to have real answers to that on Tuesday.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, we're out of time, unfortunately. One quick question, it did come up in the hearing that the Secret Service was going to ask for an $8 million White House replica for training purposes. Do you need an $8 million White House replica to know not to drive after you've been drinking?

MEADOWS: Hopefully not. They're going to have the funds they need to protect the president and the first family. We're hoping that security happens way outside the White House and we don't have to build a model to make sure that we protect them inside the White House.

[12:00:05] BERMAN: Congressman Mark Meadows, thanks for being with us. I really appreciate it.

MEADOWS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Congressman.

And thank you all for joining us.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.