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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Stunning Turn In Boston Marathon Trial; 20-Year-Old Jeffrey Williams Revealed As Suspect Who Shot Two Police Officers in Ferguson; Vice President Biden and Senator Barbara Mikulski Trying To Build Support To Use $41 Million In Federal Money To Help Clear Rape Kit Backlogs Across The Country; Robert Durst Likely To Be Transported To California To Stand Trial. Aired 12:30-1p

Aired March 16, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:29:41] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: A stunning turn in the Boston Marathon bombing trial. There was a field trip this morning at an undisclosed location in south Boston. And the field trip was for the jury. They ended up in a warehouse like facility lifted by a forklift two by two with an FBI agent escorting them. All of this so that they could get a peek inside that boat that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was hiding in during the now infamous manhunt and shootout in Watertown. Reporters noted there were more than a hundred bullets riddling that boat.

Evidence markers indicate there were much more than that though. It is mind-boggling how that young man emerged like this, ambulatory, bleeding but able to surrender and climb out of the boat himself, how he even survived this.

And while the jurors were observing and taking notes, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was tucked under a tent unshackled and flanked by his attorneys. He was there with the jurors. He got a little trip outside his prison cell and outside the courtroom.

While he was inside, he had time to write down his thoughts in pencil on the side of that boat. And now as we're learning through reporters who witnessed this viewing in wood. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENISE LAVOIE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: We were told that there was part of the note that was actually Mr. Tsarnaev actually carved into this wood that we found on the boat. That wood is not visible to us. We don't know quite where that is. We were told that he -- the part of the note he wrote on that included, "Stop killing our innocent civilians" where he denounced the U.S. for its wars in Muslim countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to bring back in HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson, and CNN Legal Analyst Paul Callan.

Can you guys tell me from all of your years litigating how important it is when a jury goes on a go-see, goes on this kind of a field trip to the kind of evidence or location you can't just haul into a courtroom? JOEY JACKOSN, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. It's very significant, Ashleigh, for the following reasons. Remember, we asked a jury to evaluate all bits of evidence. And by in large, what we do is we bring the jury to that crime scene in the court itself, how? Through videotape, through pictures, through testimonial evidence, through showing the jury certain things. So it's a benefit to have that actually go to this to get a flavor and a sense of exactly what you're going to see. So I think it's certainly big and it's very helpful to juries generally.

BANFIELD: Were you surprised to hear that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev himself was present? I know that a defendant can pretty much take part in every part of his trial but not always on a go-see.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, no. They're usually there on the go-sees.

BANFIELD: Hernandez wasn't.

JACKSON: Right, Hernandez wasn't.

BANFIELD: Aaron Hernandez was not allowed to go home to his house.

CALLAN: Yeah, well that made a different situation but the -- usually most of the time that I've seen defendants are brought along for it. And the question then is, you know, I think he wasn't shackled apparently as best we could see or handcuffed.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CALLAN: So what if he tried to escape. The Supreme Court has actually said that it frowns on shackling defendants in front of juries. Why? Because there's a presumption of innocence and if you shackle or handcuff somebody, it looks like the judge is saying, "You're dangerous." So you're being robbed of the presumption --

BANFIELD: It's prejudicial.

CALLAN: It's prejudicial so the courts will pretty much bend over backwards not to shackle in front of a jury.

BANFIELD: Isn't that the same reason you don't see them in the orange jumpsuit. You see them usually in street clothes or whatever they can bring in.

JACKSON: Certainly, because there're juries -- yeah, right, in front of the jury because you want to give them every benefit of every doubt. And in this case, no matter what the benefit -- no matter the doubt, I think it's very compelling.

BANFIELD: I just want to remind our viewers what kind of guy we're dealing with as if we don't really -- we really don't need a reminder given what's he's accused of doing and getting -- given what he's admitted to doing. But this is what was written on the boat in part. "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger," then there is a bullet hole. "Actions came with," -- bullet hole, bullet hole, "SFAG (ph)" and that is," bullet hole. And this I assume is the end, "Insha'Allah" which is, you know, hopefully, God willing.

"The U.S. government is killing our innocent civilians. But most of you already know that as a" -- and it's presumed the word is Muslim but it's basically another bullet hole, "I can't stand to see such evil go unpunished. We Muslims are one body. You hurt one, you hurt us all." He talks about martyrdom. He talks about being jealous of his brother being murdered before him. And yet a guy like that who's capable of anything as we know, can be unshackled? Would it be possible that they had some kind of a stun belt under his clothes or some other kind of restraint that the jury couldn't see?

CALLAN: It's possible. The courts have ruled essentially that it's what the jury can see that's important. So if there was a way to stun him without the jury seeing that, that's certainly would be permitted. But I'm sure the court also arranged security so it was very, very tight so that he wouldn't be able to escape.

JACKSON: And by the way Ashleigh, the document you just read, think about how that coincides or does not coincide with the defense of, "My brother made me do it."

BANFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: Did your brother make you write that document?

BANFIELD: Because your brother was dead.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: You ran over him and ensured that as well. You're right. That's a great point, Joey. Thank you. Paul, Joey, stick around, more to come as well. Thank you for that.

Investigators say that they may have their man in the Ferguson police shooting. The ballistic certainly matched but does the suspect's story add up. And P.S., how come he hasn't been charged with attempted murder?

[12:35:06] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: With the help of citizens and dozens of tips, police have the man who open fired at a crowd and hit two officers in Ferguson, Missouri after a late night protest. At least they're certainly alleging they got him.

This is the man being held in the St. Louis County Jail. His name, Jeffrey Williams, he's 20 years old. The prosecuting attorney says that he is being held on a $300,000 cash bond.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is at the Ferguson Police Headquarters.

So, this is a fascinating turn of events. He is confessing to be -- to being the person who fired the shot. But am I correct in saying he is backing off from the notion that he aimed at anybody other than someone he was targeting, not the police at all?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is exactly the story that we're getting at this point Ashleigh. He said yes, he did shoot the gun according to police is what we've learned, and that he was in a dispute with someone who was out here, a protester or a demonstrator and that that is who he was targeting, not the two police officers who were standing side by side.

What he's been charged with are two counts of assaults in the first degree. So no matter if he was actually targeting the police officers or he was targeting protesters, that is the exact charge that he would face. And those are felony charges. So because of that, they are saying they're going to move forward with this. But at the same time, they did not want to give out all of the details of their investigation because they said the investigation is still ongoing and they want to make sure that they cross all of their teeth and got all of their eyes, Ashleigh.

[12:40:15] BANFIELD: Well, first degree assault can land you a life sentence, just like an attempted murder can as well.

Stephanie, just quickly, what's the story about potential accomplices or at least people who may have been in the car with him when he said he did this?

ELAM: Right. Well, what we've learned yesterday is that they do believed that Williams was shooting from a vehicle. And according to one law enforcement source that I spoke with yesterday, they believed that there was somebody else in the car with him. And so, what people want to know at this point is was he targeting the police officers or was he targeting protesters?

Well, people in the car might be able to add more context to the story. So their investigation continues on that point. But as we just established, it doesn't really matter if he says that he did do the shooting and it doesn't matter who he hit. The point is he did hit somebody.

BANFIELD: And he injured those somebodys, which is a big factor in that sentence. All right. Stephanie Elam live for us in Ferguson. Thank you for that.

I got a little bit of breaking news for you. Little earlier in the program, I told you we were awaiting Robert Durst's attorneys to come out of the courthouse in New Orleans and address the microphones. They have done so, but it was a little unusual. After the break, I'm going to play it for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Rape is a violent degrading, dehumanizing crime, yet an estimated 400,000 untested rape kits are sitting on police evidence shelves right now. That's according to the National Center for Victims of Crime, leaving those victims waiting for even a chance at justice because of the backlog. [12:45:00] Who knows how many rapists could be caught if those backlogs were actually eliminated. A look inside this Houston storage vault shows thousands of those kits sitting, collecting dust, never processed, never investigated, never any hope of an arrest.

In Maryland right now, Vice President Biden and Senator Barbara Mikulski are trying to build support to use $41 million in federal money to help clear up that backlog.

I'm joined by the Manhattan, New York District Attorney Cyrus Vance. First of all, it's such a fascinating notion that they sit there untested. This is pristine evidence. This is a kind of evidence you beg for. Women don't like doing these rape kits. They are invasive. They're awful. Why the backlogs across the country?

CYRUS VANCE, JR., MANHATTAN, NEW YORK DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I think it boils down to two fundamental issues. One is a question of money. These rape kits are expensive to examine and to do the test that needs to be done. In years past, it used to costs as much as $5,000 to actually process one of these rape kits, which is 11 or 12 separate tests in one kit. Now that price has declined to about a thousand dollars. But still for jurisdictions around the country, it's expensive.

Secondly, I think there is just a simply growing awareness that this is -- the fact that we have 400,000 or whatever the number is of untested rape kits around the country is -- it's a tragedy. This is -- these are very serious crimes. This is a very invasive procedure that women typically have to undergo.

BANFIELD: If they agree to it.

VANCE: Yeah.

BANFIELD: I mean --

VANCE: And --

BANFIELD: -- these are ones that we've agreed to give.

VANCE: -- and I don't know of any other forensic test in crime -- criminal law, where this isn't something that would just be examined. You don't get -- every drug case kit -- the drugs are tested. I really think that there has been an evolution to understand that this is a women's rights issue.

BANFIELD: What's also -- it turns out far greater than that, because not only does a rapist typically reoffend and (inaudible) and rape so we could stop several rapes from happening in the future. We can catch the one in the rape kit. But he also has a tendency to commit other crimes as well. The statistics show he does break and enters, he does assault. So this is the kind of thing where you can solve crimes, pay the money for that. But also prevent crimes. And we all want preventative measures to stop crime.

VANCE: Well, it's the reason that our office in November committed $35 million, which we've received just part of forfeiture settlements over the last few years to fund testing of rape kits all across the country. Look at the case of Detroit in years past. They examined 2,000 kits. They hit to 2,300 of those evaluations hit to the federal code is in -- offenders and 23 others states, a hundred plus serial rapist. The Detroit experience demonstrates that when you examine these kits, you're not -- you're going to get hits not only on your jurisdiction but around the country.

BANFIELD: I would be remised if I didn't talk to the -- arguably one of the top lawyers in the country right now sitting beside me, the top prosecutor, and certainly (inaudible) development.

This is a New York story. It's a Westchester County story. I know you're a Manhattan D.A., but were you astounded to hear that there is this new evidence that surfaced and this arrest has been made and the extradition is sort of happening as we speak?

VANCE: What I can say is this arrest and prosecution speaks to the importance of prosecutor's offices and being able to handle what are called "Cold Cases." The victims in cases that occurred decades ago, family members, cousins these are current memories. And it is only through the investigation of these cases that seem cold and forgotten that ultimately justice is serve for individuals who were victimized years ago. We in our office have done a number of cold case prosecutions, certainly in my five years. And one of the first we did was a 35, 40-year old double homicides in Manhattan committed by a serial killer named Rodney Alcala.

So what I can say is that it's in excellent hands with the Los Angeles District Attorney. Janet DiFiore, the Westchester county D.A. has a superb office. So I know that these investigations are in the best of hands.

BANFIELD: And who knows if you will end up involved in another case involving Mr. Durst, because there is this New York death that is still unsolved. A mysterious and digressive in (inaudible) way.

Cyrus Vance always great to see you., D.A. Vance thank you so much for taking the time.

VANCE: Thank you so much, Ashleigh

BANFIELD: Come back. It works when television and law enforcement all work together.

VANCE: I'm happy to be here.

BANFIELD: Nice to see you.

VANCE: Nice to see you.

BANFIELD: Thank you.

Coming up, there was this -- if you want to call it a news conference, go ahead and call it a news conference. It was a nanosecond. But Robert Durst's attorney spoke. They emerged from that courthouse in New Orleans and they said something pretty telling. You're going to hear about it in just one moment.

[12:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Breaking news coming out of New Orleans. Our Jean Casarez live outside of the court house where Robert Durst's attorneys have just spoken to awaiting press conference. It took seconds but boy was it impactful.

Jean what did they say?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was very brief but it was very important; you can learn a lot from this. It was lead by Attorney Dick DeGuerin out of Houston. That was his lead attorney in the Galveston murder case of which he was acquitted. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK DEGUERIN, DURST'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: -- to waive jurisdiction and to go back to California and to get it on.

Bob Durst didn't kill Susan Berman. He is ready to end all the rumor and speculation and have a trial. But we're frustrated because the local authorities are considering filing charges on him here and holding him here.

We're ready to go to California and have a trial. See you later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And that was it. After that they all got into a black car and were whisked away from this courtroom. And Ashleigh, I think two important thing from this, number one, remember I told you the prosecutor ended the hearing today by talking about some legal internments or things wanted to take care off.

Now we understand that there are some potential charges here. Remember, he drove and here in a car, were staying a hotel room. And have whatever maybe on his person.

[12:55:01] So, if New Orleans filed some charges there, that could hold things up. But remember this is a first degree murder charge out of California. And Ashleigh, you know, as well as I do that other jurisdictions bow down.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CASAAREZ: -- jurisdiction that has the some major charge.

BANFIELD: Without question -- you're the attorney, I knew you would catch that right away. Jean Casarez, I want to bring in Paul Callan as well.

My jaw dropped, Paul Callan, when I heard them say that they are awaiting some local charges that the authorities here in the New Orleans are considering filing. That's not going to be for carrying a bogus license, a driver's license or checking under a fake name into a hotel. It's got to be big if you're going to hold up a murder trial.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, normally, it would be. I mean, they do have the right to hold him, if he has local criminal charges until -- and resolve those before they send them back to California. But as Jean said, normally first degree murder, you send them to California. Let him get tried on that case, and then if you have to bring him back for a minor charge in New Orleans you do that. So, this is very, very unusual that they would hold him.

BANFIELD: So, I mean I'm not going to try to read tea leaves here, but what level of charge would it have to be if you are going to start meddling in something as serious is what California is trying to do.

CALLAN: Well I think we have caution that this is a statement by the defense attorney, DeGuerin.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CALLAN: But not the prosecutor. All right, so --

BANFIELD: All though Jean said they wrapped up the hearing.

CALLAN: Yeah.

BANFIELD: With this issue as well.

CALLAN: OK. But it would have to be serious charge if they're serious prosecutors. It would have to be a felony of some kind. I can't imagine New Orleans is going to hold back a first degree murder prosecution because of some minor misdemeanor charge. BANFIELD: And there have been so many -- look I need a menu in front

of me to go overall of the different infractions that this man has been accused off and tried and acquitted, not tried and not acquitted. But, you know, somewhere in there, there would be fine print and other year that say he was at a CVS where he was acting strange, he exposed himself, he urinated on the candy counter at the checkout.

And police had to come. He was here in New York and he was doing something to I think --

CALLAN: It was an order of protection case --

BANFIELD: An Order of Protection.

CALLAN: A violation of an order of protection in New York.

BANFIELD: For his brother.

CALLAN: That's right.

BANFIELD: -- which apparently became an issue as well. And I think he was acquitted of that as well. And he's got more live -- legal lives it seems than a cat. In any case, would that be something that would hold him and actually stymie this murder case after a decade and a half of trying to get them all.

CALLAN: Well and, you know, as I said. This is the discretion of local law enforcement authorities in New Orleans. If they have several charges even minor one, they can insist on holding him to resolve those charges before honoring the California request to extradite.

So, they do have legal authority to do it. I can tell you that from a pragmatic and practical matter. They don't do that. And normally, they'll send it on to the state with the most serious case.

BANFIELD: New Orleans is a big jurisdiction, it's not some podunk place trying to make headlines. I mean they play well in the sand with other jurisdictions. They do it all the time.

Can you for any reason imagine what this could possibly be?

CALLAN: You know, with Durst -- you know, it could be anything. What is he doing in the New Orleans, we don't know why he was there so...

BANFIELD: Well there's a good question. Jean Casarez, the whole New Orleans story to start with. The suggestion is is that he had left the jurisdiction of Houston, possibly concerned that they were on to him that these charges might be coming in California. He was headed to New Orleans possibly to head to Cuba. As I got that right?

CASAREZ: Well a law enforcement source that was briefed on the investigation by the FBI and local authorities did tell CNN that they believe that he was on his way and planning to leave the country for Cuba. And we did confirm that New Orleans International Airport has a flight to Cuba everyday.

BANFIELD: And no suggestion in court today that this might have been part of any kind of -- look, I hate even suggesting this. But he has a past. He jumped bail back in early 2000. He took off and he was on the run and he was only caught because he stole a sandwich in a supermarket with a whole bunch of money in his car and money in his jeans.

But was there any talk about today in court. Any suggestion?

CASAREZ: No, not at all. In fact the chargers were not even told to Robert Durst, of course their California charges. But they are extremely serious and all this point is just a warrant for his arrest. There's also a constitutional right for them to face the charges in California.

One other thing we learn from the attorneys, Ashleigh, very important. You heard Dick say that he did not kill Susan Berman. This is going to be a very different offense from Texas where he said "I killed her -- him in self defense."

BANFIELD: And that is such a great point. Dick DeGuerin one of the most highly sought after attorney, highly paid attorneys, famous attorney who defended him once, he's got to defend him again. This time saying he did not do the killing.

Jean Casarez, thank you for that. Appreciate it. Live in New Orleans, continuing to follow the story. Hopefully she will be able root out with those charges are. Paul Callan, joining me as well just as mystified as the rest of us as to what these charges could possibly be or these possible charges.

[13:00:06] Thank you so much for being with us. WOLF starts right now.