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DR. DREW

A Teen Girl`s Obsession With The Internet Cause Her To Kill Family Members; Nick Gordon Getting Treatment For Addiction After What Was Going To Be An Interview With Dr. Phil And Ended Up Being An Intervention; A Medical Doctor Who Says, In Print, That Bobbi Kristina Can Recover; Transgender Teens And Their Role In School Sports

Aired March 12, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" PROGRAM: Tonight, did a teen girl`s obsession with the internet cause her to kill family members?

Plus, transgender female teen athletes, should they be banned from playing on girl`s sports teams. Zoey Tur here to comment.

But, let us start with the most tweeted story of the night. Bobbi Kristina Brown still on full life support, tracheostomy in her neck, breathing on a

breathing machine, cannot -- apparently cannot even be transferred out of the intensive care unit, the highest level of care. The presumption is

that if she is moved to a floor and does not get absolutely continuous life saving support, she will somehow decompensate and maybe die.

And, I am telling you, if someone is that fragile after 41 days after a brain injury, that they cannot even be moved on a ventilator, not taken off

the ventilator, on the ventilator into a ward, that is a profound state. That is just profound. And, now we have her boyfriend, Nick Gordon, he is

getting treatment for addiction after what was going to be an interview with Dr. Phil and ended up being an intervention. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHILLIP "PHIL" MCGRAW, HOST OF DR. PHIL SHOW/FORMER PSYCHOLOGIST: You have been drinking, son?

NICK GORDON, BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN`S BOYFRIEND: Yes.

DR. PHIL: How much?

GORDON: Two shots.

DR. PHIL: Two shots this morning?

GORDON: Yes. I have been drinking. I have been doing Xanax. And, that is it. I have been -- I have been like sober besides that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL: Nick, I am really sorry for your pain. I cannot --

GORDON: No, you cannot. You cannot. My pain is horrible. My pain -- like my heart hurts. I have panic attacks.

DR. PHIL: I am not going to tell you that I know how you feel.

GORDON: Oh, my gosh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar, Attorney at Anahitalive.com; Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu and Emily Roberts,

Psychotherapist. Emily, it is the first time I have had a chance to talk to you about that footage. What do you see here? What are we looking at?

I will propose something. Perhaps, this is drug withdrawal. Even though he is taking Xanax and alcohol, if he were in a full-blown drug withdrawal,

he could look like a dozen different psychiatric illnesses, even taking Xanax and alcohol. And, it could all be withdrawal or I got a couple other

ideas. I want to hear yours first.

EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think he is in pain. This seems pretty genuine to me. And, to be honest, if I was in his shoes, I would probably

want to be somewhere where he is going now. I would probably want to be in rehab or something like that.

He is losing somebody who he has been with since he was 12, essentially. He is in a lot of pain. And, yes, I do think it could be drug withdrawal

as well. If he has been using substances to fill that void for 41 days, my goodness, of course he I going to be out of his mind, really.

PINSKY: But, Emily -- Sam, I do not buy that it is just 41 days that this guy is doing drugs.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: No! No.

PINSKY: I mean he has been -- Thank you for responding in two syllables, "No." And, so, I am that outraged. I am too, because this kid -- there

has been allegations -- I do not know that he is doing drugs, but people are saying he is. And, we had Bobbi Kristina on her reality show talking

about her use of pills and alcohol. There is drugs around here, yes?

SCHACHER: Right. Many people have indicated within their inner circle that there is drug usage, OK? Now, he is finally in treatment. And, I am

glad that he is in treatment. But, I disagree with you, Emily. I found his interview -- and I hate saying this. I found it very contrived. I

found that his emotions were contrived.

And, I do have a lot of empathy for people who suffer from addiction and I do feel for him, but something is not adding up. And, if he really wanted

to see Bobbi Kristina, all he has to do, according to Bobby Brown, is disclose what happened that day to the police. So, why is he talking to

Dr. Phil and not the police, if he wants to see Bobbi Kristina.

ROBERTS: In my opinion --

PINSKY: In your opinion?

ROBERTS: But, in my opinion, I also think that this is somebody who does not have emotion -- he does not have the skills. I mean, honestly, he may

have a lot of money, but this is somebody who comes from a really messed up background, to be honest with you.

And how is he supposed to get those skills? If he goes and asks for help, people are going to say he is weak, right? And he has a really traumatized

background. We do not even know what he has been using. He has been using this for years, right? And, at the same time, everyone grieves

differently. Not everyone sheds tears.

PINSKY: Emily, I am sorry.

ROBERTS: Again, if he came in to my officer --

PINSKY: I am sorry ---

ROBERTS: I would treat him as a mental health patient.

PINSKY: When somebody -- to my eye, that is drug addiction. We know it is drug addiction.

ROBERTS: It could be.

PINSKY: No, not could be.

ROBERTS: It is. It is.

PINSKY: Because he was admitted to a drug treatment center; therefore, he meets criteria for addiction.

ROBERTS: Yes.

PINSKY: He is admitted for addiction.

ROBERTS: Yes.

PINSKY: You have to meet criteria. You have to be a drug addict or you do not get admitted.

ROBERTS: Right.

PINSKY: He is a drug addict. And, drug addicts that have been using for a long time will do anything to keep using. And, Anahita, you take issue

with how he gets to treatment here. Is that right?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I do, because I heard you say that you give kudos to Dr. Phil for getting --

PINSKY: I do.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- getting him into this interview.

PINSKY: I do.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I am sorry. I disagree. Because, Dr. Drew, I think this video -- this interview was just to exploit Nick. I think this was a

way to get ratings. I think that this was Dr. Phil trying to promote himself --

PINSKY: Wait. Wait, wait, wait.

SEDAGHATFAR: As a professional --

PINSKY: Wait. Anahita, hold on. Hold on a second. I am going to come to Phil -- much to my amazement, I am going to come to Phil`s defense. And,

because he deserves kudos where he deserves unlike anybody else.

And, here is the deal. He was doing a talk show. He was not doing treatment. He was doing a talk show. He probably made some arrangement to

get this kid on his talk show.

SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: And, in the middle of it, the kid gets sick and he does what is appropriate. He gets the kid treatment.

SEDAGHATFAR: Why did he have the cameras keep rolling? As a professional in that situation, Dr. Phil should have said, "Shut off the cameras." The

moment this boy was acting erratically --

PINSKY: I disagree.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- screaming and yelling --

PINSKY: I disagree.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- shut off the cameras and get him the help he needs.

PINSKY: The cameras may help --

SEDAGHATFAR: What purpose is this serve?

PINSKY: -- the purpose is to help motivate him to get into treatment. You made a commitment in front of God and everybody. Let us do this, man! You

agree to be -- he is an adult. He agreed to be on this interview. And, in the midst of it, you turned out be sick. You are going to make a

commitment here. Let us go do it.

I am going to tell you, one of the surprises I have found about television is people that make commitments like that in front of T.V., usually are

more motivated to follow through than the average patient. I see Emily nodding yes. We did not know that before, but that seems to be the case

now.

ROBERTS: And, at the same time, if somebody says to me that they are going to hurt themselves or they feel like they are in danger or they feel like

they have been using, I have a legal and ethical obligation to get them the help that they need whether the T.V. is on or not.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is ridiculous.

PINSKY: Not ridiculous.

(CROSSTALKS)

ROBERTS: No, but I do. I actually have something -- signed something.

SEDAGHATFAR: You are not letting me -- let me finish my point.

PINSKY: Anahita, your point is should the cameras keep rolling.

SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.

PINSKY: That is your point.

SEDAGHATFAR: If you are suggesting --

PINSKY: And, is not that up to this kid? Does not he have a right to say, "Yes, put it out or do not?" I am sure he approved it.

SEDAGHATFAR: He approved it beforehand, Dr. Drew. The point is to suggest that I am saying you should not get him treatment is preposterous. Duh!

Obviously, he needs treatment. He is troubled. He is a drug addict. That is a no brainer.

My issue here is Dr. Phil asked him before the cameras started rolling, "Are you on anything?" "Yes, I did two shots. Yes, I did Xanax." Why are

you conducting the interview at that point? Cut off the cameras and get him help.

PINSKY: Anahita, if we stop ending interviews that are preset because somebody has consumed a bit of alcohol, that is going to eliminate a lot of

television, Samantha. Do not you agree?

SCHACHER: Yes. Not only that, though, Anahita. You have to understand that this is showcasing the ugly side of addiction. Let us not sugarcoat

it.

ROBERTS: Absolutely.

SCHACHER: Let us show exactly how it is.

PINSKY: And --

SCHACHER: I get the exploitative. Part of it all, and I love Anahita said duh.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Nick, apparently, did not know that his mother Michelle would be part of this meeting with Dr. Phil. And, this relationship between this

woman and this young man is -- I will say fascinating. Let us use -- That is the kindest word I can use. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL: It is terrible what you are living with, Nick.

NICK GORDON: I am going to seem so weak in front of the world.

MICHELLE GORDON, NICK GORDON`S MOM: No. No, you are not.

DR. PHIL: Nick, you seem caring. Nick, you do not seem weak. You seem caring.

NICK GORDON: Mom.

MICHELLE GORDON: You are not. You are not.

NICK GORDON: I want them back. That is the only thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: He is living in some sort of strange fantasyland, where this girl is going to wake up and talk, where he is a part of a family of which does

not really exist anymore. His mom, who is sitting there, why is she suddenly if his life? And, what is the nature of that relationship?

And, what mom turns their 12-year-old over to Whitney Houston? There is so many unanswered questions here that we are going to try to get into. Not

only that, Nick Gordon wants to talk about how he is becoming famous as a result of this. It is a very distorted thing he says. I got to play it

for you.

And, later, Zoey Tur is back. We are talking about transgender feeling -- children, I beg your pardon. And, someone is trying to stop them from

playing on school sports teams. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHACHER: This attention seeking behavior for everybody to see, the way he acts on social media, the way he is rolling up his sleeve, the way he is

doing this with Dr. Phil while she is in a coma, I do not like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: Why now? Why this moment?

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

BROWN: And, why on national T.V.?

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: Why not in your own home?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Sam and Emily. Nick seems motivated to stay in that spotlight. Here, listen. You got to love this. Well, you may or may

not love it. But, it is fascinating what he tells Dr. Phil about Nick`s feelings about his own notoriety relative to Dr. Phil`s. Fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE GORDON: Just breathe.

NICK GORDON: Oh, my gosh. I made him more famous. OK. So let us do it.

(LAUGHING)

MICHELLE GORDON: Nick. Nick.

NICK GORDON: Oh, my gosh. All right. What is up?

DR. PHIL: You do not know me.

NICK GORDON: No, I do know you.

DR. PHIL: But, you know her.

MICHELLE GORDON: (LAUGHING)

DR. PHIL: What do you know about me, Nick?

NICK GORDON: You are Dr. Phil. You are famous, like I am.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Samantha, do you think there is a probability that Nick`s motivation to get involved with Bobbi Kristina and Whitney Houston in the

first place was to -- was fame?

SCHACHER: Yes! Yes, yes, exclamation mark, dot. And, when you hear that in the interview the way he started laughing -- that was like the one time

that I saw him get any sort of joy throughout the entire interview is when fame was discussed. So, when he related himself to Dr. Phil. And, you see

how he is reacting on Twitter, on Facebook, he is capitalizing on the horrible --

PINSKY: Yes, on this tragedy. But, Emily, am I seeing you shake your head no?

ROBERTS: He was 12 years old when he was ended up with them. You know, I do not know if a 12 years old --

PINSKY: Well, I got to interrupt you and say there is conflicting stories here. Some people say that the mom should have turned him over to Whitney

Houston at age 12. We are also hearing age 17 that maybe something happened. Maybe, he was already coming a difficult child at that point.

If it were 17, it makes a little more sense, does not it that he be fame seeking?

ROBERTS: Absolutely. But the other thing here that I am seeing with his behavior is that he is very delusional, and this is what you said before.

This is withdrawal symptoms. He is very delusional. He is not making sense. He is switching from different, you know, moods very quickly and

rapidly.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

ROBERTS: This is clearly something bigger than just the fame.

PINSKY: That is exactly right. So, either he has a very serious underlying psychiatric problem -- and I am worried in addition to sort of a

mood disorder maybe a character problem, and he has addiction. Or the best case for this kid is that this is all drug withdrawal and he is withdrawing

from something very, very serious.

So, Anahita, I am back to you, now. What is so wrong then in the middle of this unexpectedly, you come upon this kid that gets sick right in front of

you, he is an adult, he agreed to be a part of this television interview and you get him treatment in the middle of it? And, by the way, people

learn something in the process.

SCHACHER: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Because I do not think it was unexpected. I think that the producers talked to him before the show aired. Dr. Phil talked to him

before the show aired. Before they did the interview, he admitted he had taken shots. He admitted he was on pills.

And, quite frankly, Dr. Drew, even if you do not want to blame Dr. Phil, I also blame his lawyers. What kind of advice were they giving him? There

is a pending criminal investigation.

And, let me tell you, if the prosecution does charge him with anything, they are going to have a field day with this interview. So, I do not think

it was right in any respect, other than, yes, he got into rehab because of it.

PINSKY: Wait a minute. Who is going to have a problem with their attorneys? Nick or Dr. Phil? Nick would have the problem, right?

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Because I am not quite sure why his attorneys OKed this, because --

PINSKY: Maybe there are no attorneys. Maybe there is no real liability here. I do not --

SEDAGHATFAR: There are. There are. His attorneys said that they knew that he was on alcohol and Xanax.

PINSKY: Why is that a liability? People using drugs and alcohol in a house, somebody dies. It happens, a lot.

SEDAGHATFAR: There is a criminal investigation. He is possibly a suspect in a criminal case. As an attorney, you do not allow your client to go on

Dr. Phil and just blab your mouth like that.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Black your mouth like that, "No-a," what great use of language we got here today, everybody. Samantha, I want to get to you. But, here is

my thing. I want to hear your comment, what you want to say, but I got to say this first, which is, I have, you know, obviously, in 20 years of

treating addicts and alcoholics.

And, in my experience when there is someone using drugs and alcohol in a house who is an addict who is treated for addiction -- we know that this

kid has been treated a few times under a strange circumstances, too. But, definitely treated for addiction and now treated for addiction again.

And, there is somebody else in the house who they are involved with who says -- who she says on television, we know she is using substances and

somebody dies, that overall story in my clinical experience is the story of drug addiction. That is the story. It is complications of drug addiction.

When people die of drug addiction, they do not die typically anymore a needle in their arm; they can, but not typically overdosing. Typically, it

is pills. They stop breathing. They drown incidentally. They choke.

I mean there is all kinds of ways people day ancillary to the primary drug, itself, associated with the drugs of addiction. And, in my experience,

that tells this tale in total. Agree?

SCHACHER: Yes, I do. But I also think there is something more to it, Dr. Drew. And I think you and Emily touched on it as far as his behavior. We

are going to learn more about that. According to Bobbi Kristina`s relatives, if you read her aunt`s Facebook page, she is very forthright in

suggesting that Nick Gordon is a possible murder.

So, we do have to remember, and I am not saying that at all. This is coming from her Facebook posts. But, we have to remember as Anahita

suggests, that this is an ongoing criminal investigation and why -- and why is he not talking to the police?

PINSKY: And, Sam, not only that, Danine Manette is tweeting us right now, saying that, "I do not believe Nick did anything to Bobbi Kristina. But,

it does seem as though he is already working on his defense."

Again, I want to get into what he is really doing here. I agree with Danine to a certain extent. So, is he just sick? Is he a drug addict?

Here is what people are saying on Twitter.

Melissa says, "This is a performance by a manipulator, who knows he is under investigation," just like Danine Manette was saying. "He declares

his condition for attention."

I am going to ask Emily, could this -- I do not know this kid. I do not -- I cannot even -- I am not meaning anything negative towards him, but you

know, could this be a manipulation? Could this kid have been a grifter who ingratiates himself with some famous people for his own ends?

ROBERTS: Well, I got to say, there is a touch of narcissism there. He absolutely is using this to his advantage. A lot of the stuff he has done

he has used it for his advantage, for fame, right?

PINSKY: So, it is manipulation. All this histrionics and all this stuff in front of the camera, this is all nonsense?

ROBERTS: No. No, no, no. I think there is a touch, like I said there could be a touch of a personality disorder there, right? And, we do have

an addiction. This is an example of somebody going through withdrawal symptoms. And, you know what? He did it on national T.V., hopefully that

gets somebody else some help, too, if anything.

PINSKY: Anahita, Nick admits he is wasted. He derailed the interview. Do you think there is a possibility this whole thing again is him being

manipulative to avoid the tougher questions?

SEDAGHATFAR: It could be possible, Dr. Drew, because I did not think this interview was genuine. I did not think he was being honest. I did not see

any tears coming out of when he was crying.

PINSKY: Yes.

ROBERTS: It does not mean that. No, no, no.

PINSKY: But -- But --

ROBERTS: You do not have to cry.

PINSKY: Yes. Emily --

SEDAGHATFAR: He was also telling the cameraman, videotape my tattoo. Focus on this. Do not videotape my face.

ROBERTS: But he is solution delusional. He is super delusional.

SEDAGHATFAR: So, he is just very contrived. Even if it is not for money, maybe he wants attention. Maybe he just wants the fame, but it did not --

PINSKY: It seems -- It felt disingenuine.

SCHACHER: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: In addition to disorganized and labile and all these things, it did not feel connected. And as such, it is easy to question, what is this

kid up to?

Next up, I want to have you guys hear from a medical doctor who says, in print, that Bobbi Kristina can recover. And, later, a new kind of locker

room debate. Should males who transitioned to females be allowed to play on girls` sports teams? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The family is in denial. They do not want to say that this happened on their watch. This completely happened on your watch, the same

way it happened with Whitney.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN, ONLY DAUGHTER WHITNEY HOUSTON AND BOBBY BROWN (singing): I heard that your dreams came true. Guess she gave you things,

I could not give to you

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Sam and Emily. And, sam, you got this story for me, this physician writing about Bobbi Kristina`s condition. Tell me

about this.

SCHACHER: You are not going to like it, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Well, it is not about liking or not liking. I like the facts. That is all.

SCHACHER: It is in opposition to what you have been preaching on the show. So, basically I read an article where a doctor suggests that recovery -- a

real recovery for Bobbi Kristina is indeed possible. OK? So, I am going to read it to you the quote, and then please, respond.

PINSKY: I will respond. I will.

SCHACHER: All right. So, quote --

PINSKY: And then Anahita can have at me. "No-a," she will say.

(LAUGHING)

SEDAGHATFAR: No-a!

SCHACHER: All right. I believe that was me that said, "No-a!" OK. So quote, "The first thing to return is some respiratory function," he says.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: "The second thing to return is their eyes may open."

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: "They may not follow commands, but their eyes may open. The third thing is movement of the upper and lower extremities. That is not to

commands but due to some type of stimulus. And, then slowly and God willing they start following some commands."

PINSKY: Yes. OK. So, I saw this, too. It caught my eye. And, I thought, "Oh, this guy was not given the facts about this case." He is

describing a coma, and that is how somebody recovers from a coma. They do not wake out and call out, "Nick, where are you?" That is how somebody

awakens from a coma.

Now, what I would say to this guy is, "Hey, this patient has been without any respiratory activity, without any reflexes, massive seizuring, when any

barbiturates are reduced and flattening of the sulci because of brain edema, 41 days unable to get out of an ICU. Tell me it is the same

prognosis. What is your prognosis, doctor?

And, I virtually guarantee you, he would say it is zero. It is unfortunately zero. There is coma and there is coma. He describes general

recovery from a coma. This is more than coma. This is near brain death. This is massive and anoxic brain injury.

Yes, there is an absolute probability of people coming out -- a young person coming out of an anoxic injury. Not when there has been no progress

in two and a half -- in nearly two months, everybody. I said this after eight days. I can see the writing on the wall.

Now, there is a man calling himself the only father figure Nick Gordon ever had. He is speaking out. His name is Jack Walker. And, he says he is

Nick`s mother`s partner though they never married. He tells "Access Hollywood," quote, "If something happens to Bobbi Kristina, if she does not

pull through, then he is saying, on behalf of his son, will fear for my son`s life." Anahita, what he is talking about?

SEDAGHATFAR: I have no idea. That is the first time I heard that. But, probably he means that he might threaten to take his life. I know Nick has

been tweeting a lot of weird, bizarre things about wanting to end his life. And, possibly harming himself. So, I definitely think that it is very good

that he is in a facility right now, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Of course. This is a dangerously ill kid. We agree, regardless of his motivation, regardless of what real or what is drug withdrawal, what

is, you know, sort of manipulative sort of self-interested goal setting here. But, Samantha, I hear you sigh once Anahita said that.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Why?

SCHACHER: Well, it is not what Anahita said. It is you reporting the fact of now this father figure. Who are all these people who are coming out of

the woodwork?

PINSKY: Who are these people?

SCHACHER: It is like vultures.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: It makes me so uncomfortable that they are capitalizing on this horrible tragedy.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes. That is what is troubling me.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.

PINSKY: Listen, we do not know any of these people, right? None of us do. We are just sitting here watching this thing and wondering and getting

confused. Emily, I am particularly confused about the mom and the dad, the way Samantha is. And, my concern -- I mean the connection between the mom

and her son is so peculiar. It almost does not look like that is his mother. I mean is there a possibility that --

ROBERTS: Do we know?

PINSKY: Well, I do not know. I do not know anything. The whole thing looks very disingenuine, bizarre and hard to understand. Can you make any

more sense of it for me?

ROBERTS: I have done research and I really cannot. It seems to me that it is his mom and at the same time, I am very confused on why she has never

been around ever besides this.

PINSKY: Could it have been that he was such a problematic kid that she just gave up at a certain point when he was 17, just go do what you want?

I mean I guess that is -- no, I mean that is just one --

ROBERTS: Yes. I know, absolutely. It could have been.

PINSKY: Anahita, what do you --

ROBERTS: And Bobby have a record of that though. There might be some record or indication, because it is likely that is troublesome. There

would be something on record or on file.

PINSKY: You would think. Anahita, why are you laughing at that.

SEDAGHATFAR: I am laughing because you are going to call me a pessimist, but even if that was the case, how come now suddenly the mother appears?

She appears on the Dr. Phil show while her son is giving an interview?

SCHACHER: Yes, agree.

SEDAGHATFAR: Come on, where was she all these other years? Why is she showing up right now?

PINSKY: Well, slow down. Be explicit. Are you saying she showed up for money?

SEDAGHATFAR: Possibly, fame, attention. Everybody wants a piece of this, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes, Sam. I just had the same reaction. I heard disgust in your groan there.

SCHACHER: It is disgusting.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

SCHACHER: And if she cared about her son in his recovery, why did not she help him get treatment before all of this?

PINSKY: All right. Here is I think. Here is the thing. I feel -- I hope our disgust is founded only on our speculation. Let us hope that is the

case. But we all are wondering what we are looking at here. It is hard -- it is hard not to -- it is hard to look why because it is so confusing.

One thing we can feel good about, there is a kid with addiction. That is Nick. He is, thank God surviving his disease to this point. We have one

on a ventilator that appears -- I do not know them but in my clinical experience looks like that is another victim of the addictive process. He,

but for the grace of God, is in treatment now.

Let us hope that whatever this is sorts out and he embraces treatment. We do not know really what is motivating him. It is all very suspicious, but

it does not matter. Contrary to what Anahita is telling all of us and taking issue with me, it does not matter what gets somebody in treatment.

Anahita, what happens when the court sends somebody to treatment? Is that inappropriate? Is that manipulation? Is that somebody who is not going to

get well? Well, they do. It does not matter what gets somebody there. Of course, you rather they would be internally motivated and come on their own

accord.

Of course, it is going to go better. They have a moment of clarity and they want to come and they embrace treatment. But, I tell you what. You

get somebody who is difficult into a treatment environment, sometimes they have that moment of clarity. And, that is the only hope he has got right

now. And, I thank God he is there. And, I again take my hats to Phil for having gotten him there.

Next, Slender man is back in a crime scene. Is this another deadly internet obsession? And, later, transgender teens and their role in

school sports. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A 17-year-old is charged with murder. Police say she shot her stepfather in the head then stabbed her mother to

death. She is also accused of locking her three younger siblings in a room with food and juice, then taking off with her boyfriend. Both were

arrested 500 miles away. Her boyfriend has not been charged in connection with the murders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with the behavior bureau, Anahita, Sam and Emily. Apparently, the teen also had a blog called, quote, "Nightmare." She went

by the name Vampchick. Here is the kind of thing she would post. Pictures of flade skulls, demons, Slender man makes a repeat visit here, stories and

poems about murder, suicide and the devil. Here is one of the poems she posted just two months ago. I am going to give you an audio re-enactment.

Here it is.

(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)

ASHLEE MARTISON, 17-YEAR-OLD TEENAGER CHARGED WITH MURDER (audio re- enactment): "They say one of us is to blame. You are holding that knife covered in blood. I am laughing off the pain. Wondering which one of us

is guilty. If we are both totally insane.

(END AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)

PINSKY: And, again these are all allegations. As far as, I know this has not been confirmed. Now, Emily, my question is, if a parent comes across a

kid obsessing about death and blood and even the vampire stuff, what should they do? And, should they send a kid like that for an assessment right

away?

ROBERTS: Absolutely. Send them to -- maybe not me, but yes, maybe me. Yes, they need to be in therapy. They need to get an assessment. This is

deep stuff.

PINSKY: OK. Well, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I think a lot of parents go, "Oh, is not it cute Susie, is in to -- She thinks she is a vampire."

"She draws these cute pictures of knives and she likes this Slender man character." She is doing great at school. She has lots of friends." Now,

at what point do you go, "No. No, mom. Those kinds of obsessions are not normal?"

ROBERTS: Well, back in the day, we used to have journals and diaries that we would leave out. This girl had a live blog. She was saying something

on this blog and no one was picking up on it. That is the problem here. She really needed some attention, I believe.

And, I do not think she is doing this for attention. She was obsessed with it. This is an obsession. When you see your child not being able to do

anything else, when they are focusing on these things and they continue to go back to these things, they get stuck in vicious cycles about death and

dying, that should be a red flag to get them some help immediately and talked to them about that.

PINSKY: Samantha --

ROBERTS: What is going on here, guy?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I am going to put you on the spot. I know you had some interesting developmental changes as you were growing up. You got involved

with interesting people. Did you ever have any interesting obsession?

SCHACHER: What? What do you mean? No. I mean -- OK. I -- Listen. OK. That is a good point. But not people. It was just me. I was the quirky

one.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: So, yes, I listen to heavy metal. I probably would have read about slender man. I also performed memorials for road kill, because I

love animals, Dr. Drew. But --

PINSKY: Well, that is --

SCHACHER: I was not consumed with it. So, just because somebody might be a little goth does not mean that they are going to go murder their parents.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: But, this girl clearly, clearly was consumed with death. And, she injected herself into the poetry said called herself a murder. That is

when the parents should have gotten involved, because her blog screamed her criminal behavior.

PINSKY: In the last couple of months. We have covered bunch of stories about these young girls obsessed with somebody called slender man. He

ended up trying to -- you know, these kids ended up trying to kill somebody.

Anahita, is there a liability here if people see these sorts of things online and are aware -- even the teachers or the schools are aware that the

kids are obsessing about these things? And, by the way, let us say, I am going to put another layer on it. Let us say the school is aware, accepts

the liability, but the parents will not do anything about it?

SEDAGHATFAR: I think that is a little bit of a stretch to hold the school liable for something like this. But, Dr. Drew, what I can tell you, I am

going to go out on a limb and predict that if this goes further, she is going to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. And, guess what? Those

blog posts, those writings, those poems are all going to be used by her attorneys to show the court that she was crazy.

PINSKY: But, Anahita, I am going to tell you what. I am going to take the opposite point of view. I do not know if you are actually making the case

that she is crazy. But, she was cunning and cold hearted on how she did this.

She let her three younger siblings survive this. She left them food. She locked them in a room before she left. She sort of planned this. She took

off with the boyfriend. Emily, this is not just mental illness. This is - - this is psychopathy. Let us call it what it is. This is -- when people talking about -- for me, when we are talking about psychopathy, we are

talking about evil.

ROBERTS: Yes. She was. I mean she had empathy. She had empathy for her other siblings. She went with her boyfriend. She was cold hearted. She

had a motive and obviously she had a motive because it was documented online.

PINSKY: Well, hold on.

ROBERTS: It did not come out of nowhere.

PINSKY: Hold on. So, did she have empathy and maybe she is being abused by these parents and sort of snapped?

ROBERTS: Possibly.

PINSKY: Or was she psychopathic and just incidentally salvaged the kids?

ROBERTS: I do not believe that there was a psychotic break or a snap, because it seems to me like this has been planned from beforehand. Because

she did write about this on her blog.

PINSKY: OK.

ROBERTS: Allegedly.

PINSKY: I want to bring in a national expert. Joining me on the phone is Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman. He is a psychiatrist. He is an author of "Shrinks:

The Untold Story of Psychiatry." And, Dr. Lieberman, I do not know if you had a chance to look at this case. But, I am wondering if you have a sense

of what this is.

And, does it teach parents anything? Does it give them a sense of how to evaluate their kids, or when they should intervene and when should they

refer when kids are obsessing about vampires and deaths and this sort of thing?

DR. JEFFREY LIEBERMAN, PSYCHIATRIST/AUTHOR: Well, Drew, I think it really resonates with two increasingly important themes of the day, one of which

is what is the relationship between mental illness and violence as we see more and more horrific episodes occur. And, the second is, what is the

wayward youthful excesses in behavior that are just youth exploring all different sort of aspects of our culture.

And what is, you know, verges on things that might be mental illness and warrant parents seeking help as Emily was saying in the beginning. I mean

first, this is wild speculation because we just do not have any data. But, there is nothing that I have read so far, which indicates a past history of

mental illness.

And, there is also nothing that is appeared in the news as far as I have read, which indicates a past history of anti-social behavior. She was

clearly into this kind of goth culture, but then a lot of people are. And, that by itself is not evidence of sociopathy or mental illness.

PINSKY: Right. Let me -- I am going to interrupt and say, so, parents do not need to go into a panic if they have kids obsessing about Slenderman or

vampires, that sort of things?

DR. LIEBERMAN: Well, I think the question is, what is the threshold?

PINSKY: Right. That is the question. That is the question.

DR. LIEBERMAN: My belief is that you be cautious. There is no harm in calling the question earlier when they are just often into a phase or into

a specific sort of cult topic or, you know, latest vogue of the day. And, you say, "OK, I am concerned about what you are doing. And, I just want to

check with your doctor." And, it might be the pediatrician that they start with.

PINSKY: Right.

DR. LIEBERMAN: And it ends with a psychiatrist or a very good psychologist.

PINSKY: And, let me just say, Dr. Lieberman --

DR. LIEBERMAN: There is really something more going on. And, A fascination with an extreme cult or some type of anti-social or distasteful

area is not necessarily mental illness.

PINSKY: But would not you agree, Dr. Lieberman that it is at least a high probability of at least depression?

DR. LIEBERMAN: No.

PINSKY: Not. OK. All right. Fair enough.

DR. LIEBERMAN: No.

PINSKY: But, it does warrant an evaluation to be sure.

DR. LIEBERMAN: No. No, Drew. Based on what I have read so far, there is three things I would say before mental illness. One is crime of passion.

Did she get into a big fight, her parents put the foot down against something, and she could not go out with the boyfriend or who knows what?

PINSKY: Yes.

DR. LIEBERMAN: Second is that she is so consumed with this gothic culture, just like, you know, people are under the influence of scientology or some

cult.

PINSKY: Yes. Got it.

DR. LIEBERMAN: That she is in some kind of extreme act, or third was she under the influence of drugs.

PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Thank you, Dr. Lieberman. Appreciate it.

Next up, should a transgender high school student born male be allowed to play on female sports teams? And, reminder please check us out on

Facebook. Let us know what you think about on tonight`s show or anything else. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Transgender students born male might be banned from playing on female sports teams in high school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAVID M. BROWN, (R) MINNESOTA REPRESENTATIVE: To me, it is common sense that a physical -- a biological male is going to be stronger in most

cases than a biological female. And, it is an issue of fairness in terms of males playing on female sports teams.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The Minnesota proposal would undo one currently on the books that allows transgender students to play on female

teams. Supporters say protecting transgender athletes from bullying is another goal. But, critics, like this transgender student, disagree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER STUDENT: I felt that it would be an unfair advantage, and I disagree. It is still important that people that -- that

identify as trans or non-binary, gender-nonconforming, can join the team that best fits them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Sam and Zoey, first transgender reporter and special correspondent for "Inside Edition." Does the pre-existing genetic

factor -- I am going to ask you this, zoey. The genetic makeup for which one is born trump the student`s identity issue when it comes to them

playing sports?

ZOEY TUR, FIRST TRANSGENDER REPORTER/SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT FOR "INSIDE EDITION": Well, it depends. And, when we are talking about children, if

they are on puberty blocking medication, no.

Dr. Eric Vilain at UCLA, a geneticist and a physician, did a lot of research on this subject. Also, the Olympic organizing committee has done

research. And their conclusion is if a person is on these medications for at least two years, they can play. They do not have any --

PINSKY: The hormone blocking agents?

TUR: Correct.

PINSKY: What about active hormone replacement? Like taking an estrogen or doing something to block testosterone production or both?

TUR: Yes, that even helps more.

PINSKY: But which, though? Do not there need to be criteria for that if we are going to say that is OK?

TUR: I think there should be criteria that something that really needs to be discussed. But, when you are talking about children, really let us say

elementary school, junior high school and they are on the puberty blocking drugs, they do not really have any sort of advantage. However , by high

school if puberty does set in with male to female, yes there would be advantages. The bones as you know get denser --

PINSKY: Right.

TUR: Muscles get --

PINSKY: And, there is a different frame that could have different leverage.

TUR: Correct.

PINSKY: So, you are saying if somebody gets -- does not have male puberty, that is the threshold for you, is that right?

TUR: Well, that is one threshold. However, the Olympic organizing committee feels that it is even with an adult following sexual reassignment

surgery and two years on cross-hormone therapy that, that person can participate in Olympic quality --

PINSKY: All right. Anahita, do you have an opinion on this? Is there legal precedent?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I do not really have much of an opinion of these students -- the boys playing on the all girls team. What I have more of a

problem with is the idea that they have to share the same facilities.

Because I do not think that they are taking into consideration the privacy rights of the other students, the little girls that maybe do not want to be

exposed to male nudity at such a young age.

I mean I certainly -- I feel for these boys that are struggling with these issues. But does that mean that the entirety of the students, the female

students have to adjust to accommodate this one particular student?

PINSKY: I just -- before we get into that topic -- I will get into that topic just a second. I want to ask Sam a question. Sam, you were a

nationally ranked high school and collegiate athlete. Would you have had an issue if you knew one of a student you are competing with was in fact a

transgender student?

SCHACHER: Yes. Honestly, I think I would have, Dr. Drew. My mind changed as soon as Zoey mentioned that the Olympic committee approved it after the

two years of the hormones or whatever the words that she stated. Because, yes, I am conflicted here.

I am a huge advocate for transgender, the transgender community. I want to make sure they do not feel ostracized. But also it as an collegiate

athlete, I can imagine that it would feel like that there would be an unfair advantage that there was a male athlete that identifies as a female

because biologically males are stronger than females.

PINSKY: And, we asked -- we polled this. The poll question was, should transgender high school students having been born male be allowed to play

on the female sports teams? And there was a pretty high percentage, 75 percent said no.

We are going to get into that and more in just a second. The issue that Anahita just brought up, the transgender children wanting to use the

bathroom at school; parents, she is suggesting maybe legal problem with that as well. We will get into that in just a second.

I also want to remind people, if they want to see our show in person, there is now a chance to come see this show live. Be a part of a live audience.

We have a special "Dr. Drew On Call." It is next Thursday, March 19th here in Los Angeles. You can Message us on our Facebook page,

facebook/drdrewhln.

For tickets, let us know how many tickets you want. We love to see you here. It will be an interesting program. That is next Thursday. Contact

us. We will get you back -- I will hit you back. And, we are in fact back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: What if this child came to you and said, "Mommy, I am not a boy. I am a girl in here, and nobody can see me for who

I am? She is an amazing child. And she is deserves people is respect and acceptance just like I would accept anybody in this room."

I had a lot of people telling me this could be a phase and she will grow out of it and do not let her wear the dress. It is what she needed to be

her. And, she is so happy now. I cannot even describe how she is now compared to before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Sam and Zoey. That is the mother of an 11- year-old transgender girl. Her daughter is desired to change from male to female forced a New York school district to allow the 6th grader to use the

female -- the girl`s rest room.

Many of the classmates and the parents were opposed. They say their children are confused. Zoey, are the children actually confused? Are they

actually upset? Are the parents upset?

TUR: The parents are confused and the parents are upset. The children are going to figure it out. They will get along and this exposes them to

diversity. And, I think they will rise above all this fray. It is really the parents that have a problem.

PINSKY: Anahita is not a parent yet, but she has a problem with this. You brought it up in the last segment.

TUR: I am. I have two kids.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I am not a parent yet, but I certainly understand what the position of these parents are. Maybe these kids are young kids. Maybe

the parents do not want their girls exposed to male genitalia at such a young age.

TUR: That is not going to happen.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no. Actually, I will explain to you why that is. Because, apparently under federal law, schools cannot discriminate against

transgender students. And, what that means is those students are allowed to choose which bathroom they want to use, which facility they want to use.

Separate but equal is considered discriminatory. So, they share.

PINSKY: Yes, but Anahita, that does not mean they are going to see genitalia.

TUR: Yes.

SCHACHER: What about this being a teaching moment, Anahita. This is a great teaching moment to educate their children to teach them tolerance and

acceptance. How do you think that transgender kid feels? Why cannot they look at it from the other side?

SEDAGHATFAR: Because you are asking a whole group to adjust based on one or two students.

SCHACHER: So, educate them.

SEDAGHATFAR: And, look, I sympathize, but I think we are talking about young students --

TUR: This is not going to happen. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. You are talking about an 11-year-old that has modesty issues. The other

children have modesty issues. The child will change in a handicap stall.

PINSKY: Or at least a stall with a door.

TUR: With a door.

PINSKY: That is just to make sure there is.

TUR: This is nonsense.

PINSKY: But, I heard --

SEDAGHATFAR: But, why do you think there is a controversy? The controversy is because these things -- the students are changing in front

of one another. Otherwise, why would anyone complain?

PINSKY: No, no, no.

TUR: No, no, no, no, no.

SCHACHER: There is a controversy because people do not understand the transgender community.

PINSKY: People are scared, reasonably. I mean it is an evolving process. Zoey, you said it yourself. This is something we have to stay on top of

it.

TUR: Correct.

PINSKY: But, it is reasonable when people have confusion and that they react. I got to wrap it up. You can DVR us then you can watch us any

time. "Forensic Files" begins next. Begins in fact now.

END