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CNN NEWSROOM

Manhunt On For Killer Of Putin Critic; Investigators May Have Possible Motive; Remembering Star Trek's Leonard Nimoy; Four Teens May Have Links To ISIS; "Slenderman" Stabbing Interrogation Video Released; Abdullah: ISIS No "Relationship To Our Faith"

Aired February 28, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL WEIR, CNN HOST, "THE WONDER LIST": The choices we make, what kind of hotels we pick on our vacations determines the future lives and folks you may never even meet.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's about survival and adapting, isn't it?

WEIR: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: All right, Bill Weir, thanks so much. Look forward to it. "THE WONDER LIST" premiers Sunday evening. You need to be right in front of your TV set. You're going to watch this, 10:00 right here on CNN.

All right, the next hour of NEWSROOM starts right now. Happening right now in the NEWSROOM --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, CNN'S "PARTS UNKNOWN": Critics of the government and critics of Putin, bad things seemed to happen to them.

BORIS NEMTSOV, PUTIN CRITIC SHOT TO DEATH FRIDAY: Yes, unfortunately, existing power represent what I say Russia of 19th Century not of 21st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Eerie words from outspoken Russian critic, Boris Nemtsov, who was gunned down in the streets of Moscow. Authorities saying today, his murder maybe to destabilize the country.

Plus, an 11th-hour reprieve to keep money flowing to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, but the funding fight definitely not over.

And investigators say they may now know what triggered a door-to-door killing spree in Missouri. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We start this hour with a developing story, a murder in the shadow of the kremlin. Boris Nemtsov, a Russian opposition leader and outspoken critic of President Vladimir Putin, was shot to death last night as he walked across a bridge, barely 100 yards from the seat of Russian government.

A manhunt is now on for the killer or killers, and today Russia's state media released this video of a car they say could be -- could have been used in this shooting. Investigators say Nemtsov's shooting was carefully planned. Opposition leaders call it a direct message from the kremlin.

Earlier this month, in a chilling premonition of his death, Nemtsov said this, quote, "I'm afraid Putin will kill me. I believe that he was the one who unleashed the war in Ukraine. I couldn't dislike him more," end quote.

Last year, Nemtsov told CNN's Anthony Bourdain that he knew of the risk involved in criticizing Russia's leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOURDAIN: You were supposed to be dining at another restaurant this evening and when they heard that you would be joining me, we were uninvited. Should I be concerned about having dinner with you?

NEMTSOV: This is a country of corruption and if you have business, you are in a very unsafe situation. Everybody can press you and destroy your business. That's it. This is a system.

BOURDAIN (voice-over): Meet Boris Nemtsov. He was deputy prime minister under Yeltsin.

(on camera): Critics of the government, critics of Putin, bad things seemed to happen to them.

NEMTSOV: Yes. Unfortunately, existing power represent what I say in Russia over 19th century. Not of 21st.

BOURDAIN: Here's -- this is a case -- a known enemy of Putin with a bout of radioactive polonium. Aren't you concerned?

NEMTSOV: Me, about myself? Tony, I was born here 54 years ago. This is my country. Russian people are in trouble. Russian court doesn't work. Russian education declines every year. And I believe that Russia has a chance to be free, has a chance. It is difficult, but we must do it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Today, mourners held a vigil at the site of Nemtsov's death. This as President Barack Obama called for an impartial investigation into the opposition leader's murder. And Vladimir Putin promising Nemtsov's mother, her sons killers will be, quote, "properly punished."

Joining me right now is CNN senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen and "Daily Beast" and "Newsweek" correspondent, Anna Nemtsova, both joining us from Moscow.

So Fred, you said earlier that there were some eyewitnesses, but does anyone dare speak up and really reveal what they saw? What they know?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I do think that the eyewitnesses are speaking to the police, Fredricka. I mean, that doesn't mean necessarily that the people that we speak to have very much faith or very much trust in the investigation that has begun here.

There are many people whom we've been speaking to who say they believe that no one will ever really know who really killed Boris Nemtsov, and that certainly investigations in the past have also sort of turned up shady results, as well.

Nevertheless, the authorities are telling us that they have talked to several eyewitnesses here and one of the things we have to keep in mind is that when this happened yesterday night or last night.

At around 11:40 p.m., this bridge that we're on right now, where all this happened, is a place -- actually, there are a lot of people where there is a lot of traffic and so there will have been a lot of eyewitnesses who most probably came forward.

One of the people who apparently is talking to the police is the person who was with Boris Nemtsov at the time. It was a female companion who had apparently come here from Ukraine.

We spoke to another person who had -- was -- managed to speak to her a little bit and said that she told him that she was walking here with Boris Nemtsov, and at some point, a car stopped next to the two, shots were fired from that car, directly at Boris Nemtsov and then the car sped off.

That is sort of also in line with what the police are saying, as well. They, of course, as you said, have also released that video of that car that they believe was involved in all of this.

And so certainly it seems as though they're sort of piecing together what happened, but it doesn't appear as though at this point in time they have a suspect yet -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And then Anna, let me ask you to weigh in because I understand you knew Nemtsov. Is there a presumption that because he was an opposition leader the government had something to do with his death?

ANNA NEMTSOVA, "DAILY BEAST" CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, there were many things. Opposition voices were silenced in Russia gunned down in the center of Moscow or in Petersburg. These investigations never really show any results, unfortunately. We never heard about who really ordered the murder of others.

This time, I spoke with people of those who come from my hometown. We have the same name, but we are not related. But since my early age, I was watching his career, and was very curious about this politician. He was a really powerful, interesting democrat with -- always with free speech and always successful, viewed him so many times. And no matter who he was, a deputy of duma, or vice prime minister, or minister of energy, he would always allow us on the scene and always give comments.

So this time, he criticized yesterday about, you know, an hour before his murder, he criticized Vladimir Putin again, calling Vladimir Putin a criminal. He had done that many times.

People say that maybe not Putin ordered him, but there were people during the march about a week ago call for finishing up, and considered by many nationalists a part of this so-called fifth cone.

WHITFIELD: Other opposition leaders, while it probably is common, Anna, they would always be fearing for their lives to speak out against government.

But now that this murder has taken place, is there a feeling that their fears, other opposition leaders, their fears have been heightened, they're changing their way to be less of a target? Are you hearing anything about that?

NEMTSOVA: That's true. I've spoken to a number of opposition leaders last night and today, and they all say that before they never paid attention to live threats on social network.

Since last night, they are going -- they are going to pay more attention, become more serious about such threats as people cannot be really safe in downtown Moscow anymore. His death -- the place where he was killed was really symbolic.

It was right by the kremlin wall. I was in a cafe when it happened. And I spoke with young people at a cafe in downtown Moscow. One of them said, you know, nobody can be safe anymore even Putin could be killed in the middle of Moscow.

That was a young voice, an 18-year-old boy who said that so somebody who wanted to demonstrate that nobody can be secure anymore in Moscow committed that crime, obviously.

WHITFIELD: Wow. That's a very resonating message. All right, Anna Nemtsova, Fred Pleitgen, actually before we go, Fred, can I ask if there is a feeling from the people who have come out for the vigil, have they felt similar to what Anna says.

That, you know, if the opposition leader would be killed in this very symbolic location, shouldn't everyone feel they're lives are in jeopardy, even she said the president, Vladimir Putin.

PLEITGEN: Well, I'm not sure that people feel their lives are in jeopardy, but certainly is something that really crossed the new boundary in Moscow where people are indeed saying that it is to them absolutely outrageous that something like this could happen in a place like this. And certainly, they don't feel safe, and they -- feel this is something -- a new quality, if you will, in all of this. And that's I think also one of the reasons why so many people came out here. Is because they are truly shocked at what happened here.

I mean, a lot of people said they knew there could be shady dealings going on. That there was, of course, criminal elements in the city, but something like that could happen in a place like this with the security like this.

Right in the middle of Moscow is certainly I think bears a new quality. I just want to say one other thing. I think we're going to have a very good benchmark for how the opposition here feels.

How intimidated they feel tomorrow when there is going to be that march to mourn Mr. Nemtsov because that's when we'll see how many people come out and how outspoken they are going to be.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right, Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much and Anna Nemtsova -- we apologize to our viewer, it's not your television set, but the signal there with Fred Pleitgen is deteriorating so we're glad we are able to retrieve him to get those last words. Thanks so much.

All right, call it perhaps a Hail Mary for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Minutes before the midnight deadline, President Barack Obama signed a bill to extend funding to DHS for another seven days.

That means hundreds of thousands of TSA workers, border agents and others will still get paid for now. But some Republicans want to tie permanent funding to stopping the president's executive order curtailing deportation of undocumented immigrants.

Erin McPike is joining us now from the White House with more on this. So Erin, the fight doesn't appear to be over yet. Maybe it's just getting revved up again.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, think back to December when Congress was voting on the overall budget for the next year, for this year, and Republicans singled out the Department of Homeland Security and said they would fund it for just two months.

So they could have this fight again on immigration with a new Republican majority in the Senate. Now Republicans have one more week to try to make that point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- vote, the yeas are 357 and the nays are 60, two-thirds being in the affirmative.

MCPIKE (voice-over): With the sound of the gavel, Congress compromised and passed a one-week extension to fund the Department of Homeland Security just hours before a Friday night deadline. Now, TSA screeners, border agents, and federal workers can get paid and keep working.

But chaos came before the compromise, for most of Friday, lawmakers seemed poised to avoid a nail-biter showdown, but when it came down to a vote to fund the department for three weeks, a shocking twist in the House to an already dramatic day on the Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The joint resolution is not passed.

MCPIKE: Nearly every Democrat and a few dozen Republicans voted against it. It all came down to playing politics. Republicans wanted a provision blocking the president's executive order on immigration, which the bill didn't have.

And Democrats didn't vote for it because they wanted to force Republicans to fund the department for the full year rather than just three weeks.

As hope started to fade by the hour, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi told the Democrats to vote on a patch that would found the department for a week.

REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: We certainly want to protect the American people every minute of every day, 24/7.

MCPIKE: The House apparently took note and passed the temporary fix. Congress is expected to continue the debate next week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE: And in that next week, House Speaker John Boehner will have to decide whether to pull that full bill that funds DHS in a clean way without stripping back President Obama's executive actions on the immigration to the House floor.

But there's a small crew of conservative Republicans who are threatening to oust him or try to at least oust him for the speakership if he brings that full bill to the floor -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Erin McPike at the White House, thanks so much.

All right, still ahead, police now think they know what triggered a deadly shooting spree in a tiny Missouri town. CNN's Will Ripley is in Missouri -- Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there are still a lot of unanswered questions here, Fred, but they do wonder if the death of the gunman's mother may have caused him to do something horrible in a very small town.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Investigators may have one possible motive about why a gunman went on a deadly shooting spree in the tiny Southern Missouri town of Tyrone. Seven people in four separate homes were shot dead. One injured. The gunman was found dead in a pickup truck 15 miles away after apparently shooting himself. CNN's Will Ripley joins us from nearby Kabul, Missouri. What more do we know about the investigation?

RIPLEY: The only thing that police have to go on, Fred, is the fact that the gunman was living with his mother and he discovered her dead apparently of natural causes. It was sometime after that that he went on this killing spree that caused this small town about a fifth of its population.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY (voice-over): There's no stoplight in Tyrone, Missouri, no post office or even a gas station, but this tiny town is the scene of the deadly mass shooting in recent Missouri history. John Shriver got a phone call to go to his cousin's house down the street.

SHRIVER: Whenever I got him by the arm, you know, it just -- you could tell that he was dead already.

RIPLEY: Shriver thinks his cousin and his wife were killed quickly. Their car and washing machine still running and their 13-year-old son alive and terrified in a back bedroom.

(on camera): He was in shock?

SHRIVER: I would say.

RIPLEY (voice-over): The house one of six crime scenes and nine deaths. Seven people shot and killed, four from the same family less than three miles apart. The gunman's mother was apparently dead of natural causes. Police is investigating if her death somehow triggered the rampage.

JEFF KINDER, SPOKESMAN, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: You know what? That's -- in our job we see a lot of bad stuff. This is bad and also hard on the police officers that are working that there. It's not natural to see that sort of thing.

RIPLEY: The Missouri State Highway Patrol says that the gunman, Joseph Aldridge, killed himself. Authorities say he had only a minor criminal history and nothing to foreshadow something like this. Many in this quiet corner of Southeast Missouri say they do not even lock their doors.

SCOTT DILL, SUPERINTENDENT, HOUSE R-1 SCHOOL DISTRICT: My concern is children, and so our kids are having a really tough time, a wide variety of emotions and shock and tears, a lot of questions.

RIPLEY: Investigators working to figure out why someone would want to kill nearly an entire family. Hoping the sole survivor now in the hospital can provide answers.

(on camera): How is your community going to move forward from this?

DILL: One day at a time as a family. This community is based in faith and family. I have seen them come through some very difficult situations not inclined to this, of course.

RIPLEY: A massacre in a Missouri town and the few left behind left to wonder why.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: Fred, that sole survivor does remain in the hospital. Police have been talking to her trying to get as much information as they can to try to figure out this motive because there was no suicide note found in the gunman's truck, just a horrible situation for this town.

The other victims still have not been publicly named, but we believe they're members of another prominent and well-known family here that has now lost many of its own.

WHITFIELD: Devastating situation. All right, thank you so much, Will Ripley.

All right, still ahead, the one man who possibly knew Spock best. William Shatner talks about the loss of his friend and "Star Trek" legend, Leonard Nimoy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In a new development, a U.S. appeals court has ruled the Boston marathon bombing trial will stay in Boston. Jury selection in the death penalty trial of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is now set to begin next week. Three people were killed and another 250 injured in the April, 2013 bombing near the marathon's finish line.

And tomorrow's spacewalk is a go. Despite a small amount of water found in the helmet of American Astronaut Terry Verts, the suit has a history of creating water when it is re-pressurized after a spacewalk causing water to be pushed into the helmet. NASA says it has a high degree of confidence in the suit.

And sci-fi fans loss a legend this week with the passing of Leonard Nimoy. "Star Trek's" legendary Mr. Spock died Friday from lung disease. He was 83. His "Star Trek" co-star, William Shatner, remembered him as someone to admire, love and respect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR WHO WORKED WITH LEONARD NIMOY: It's a wonderful phrase for the Vulcan to have, live long, and I would like to think that the prosper is not just make some good money, but prosper in evolving yourself as a human being, which is what I think Leonard was trying to do all his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Jason Carroll has more on Nimoy's legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEONARD NIMOY: That is quite logical, Captain. JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Leonard Nimoy was and will always be remembered as Spock, the half human, half-Vulcan he portrayed for more than four decades on the big screen and the small screen where his character debuted in the original "Star Trek" series, September 8th, 1966.

NIMOY: That may be correct.

CARROLL: Spock's life on board the "Starship Enterprise" took him to many worlds. In reality, Nimoy's love for acting began right here on earth in his hometown.

NIMOY: I started acting when I was a little boy, 8 years old, settlement houses in Boston, and kind of grew up into it. Live long and prosper.

CARROLL: As beloved as Spock is with his audiences, in his early career, Nimoy played a lot of characters audiences love to hate.

NIMOY: I have done a lot, pushed people around and got my comeuppance in the end of the show. They can smell a winner.

CARROLL: Nimoy's big break came when a producer took notice of the young actor in an episode of the '60s Marine Corps drama "The Lieutenant." That producer, Gene Roddenbury, who like the cast, saw something special in Nimoy's Spock.

SHATNER: They invented the character. They have made an earlier pilot in which nobody had grasped the edges of the character.

GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR: With his imagination and his innovation, his creativity made that character one interestingly, humanized and so rivetingly intriguing.

CARROLL: Despite all the "Star Trek" spinoffs, a dozen movies, five series, countless conventions, the first "Star Trek" series lasted only three seasons, 79 episodes.

NIMOY: My favorite episode, in that episode we heard the words live long and prosper for the first time and we saw Spock do this for the first time.

CARROLL: Nimoy went on to star in a number of TV shows following the series. He also pursued other passions, photography and poetry, publishing a book in 1977.

In the '90s, Spock appeared in "Star Trek: The Next Generation." And when JJ Abrams rebooted the movies in 2009, again in 2013, the original Spock was there too.

NASA's shuttle "Enterprise," named after the star ship and when it retired in 2012, Nimoy was there to talk about it.

(on camera): Tell us what you're feeling today.

NIMOY: It feels like a reunion. CARROLL (voice-over): And Nimoy's later years, he spoke about the dangers of smoking after being diagnosed with a lung disease.

NIMOY: I quit a long time ago. Why is this happening to me? But it's a lesson I had to learn.

CARROLL: His character, Spock, may have prided himself on being emotionless, but in the end, that could not be further from who the man was to his family and friends.

SHATNER: First and foremost is a long and deep friendship, love that I have for Leonard. He is in essence the brother I never had.

NIMOY: Live long and prosper.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Growing concern that at least four Canadian teens may have gone off to join ISIS, authorities believed they flew from Montreal to turkey in mid-January, and they don't know where the teens might be now.

Paula Newton is in Montreal for us with more on this story. So family and friends, anyone saying that these kids showed some signs of if not at least being radicalized, but that they were getting ready to go somewhere for a very long time?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, the situation is different from each teenager and their own family situations. We did speak to a couple of families, you know, in saying that, look, they are kind of said they wanted to go.

We tried to talk them out of it. Did anyone know specifically they were going to leave on a specific day, no. What seems to be the dividing line, are people are coming forward to say we should have spoken to authorities sooner and we didn't.

Fred, these teenagers were reported missing essentially to authorities when it was too late. What they're trying to do now is put together the puzzle. How many were serious about crossing the border to turkey to get to Syria.

How many have managed to get to Syria or are they in some kind of a training camp, or now in Turkey, and perhaps just afraid to come home? It is a very, very complex investigation, four confirmed with links to jihadists and perhaps trying to go over to Syria.

But the investigation is open on many more cases, and that, Fredricka, and security officials here saying quite openly, look, we believe radicalism is a growing problem in this country, and something we have to really work hard to solve -- Fred. WHITFIELD: And then, of course, there are questions about this Montreal professor, who may have some sort of connection with the kids, to what degree?

NEWTON: Well, it's interesting. He claims he doesn't have a connection, that only one of the kids attended one of his schools on a couple of occasions, but one Quebec newspaper, "Le Press," reporting, look, we have pictures of him with another one of these teenagers, who allegedly has gone to the Middle East to join ISIS.

The problem, Fredricka, look, this guy is known to authorities here. He's under what they call a security certificate for six years before the courts determined he was not a security threat.

Many parents are asking what is this guy doing teaching in a community college if there is any threat at all that perhaps what he is preaching is giving some inspiration to these young people.

Of course, Fredricka, he denies it, but authorities looking very closely, not just at the links to this professor, but other links they might have had in these colleges, in these high schools, and any kind of threat to radicalization there -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Paula Newton in Montreal, thank you so much.

All right, still ahead, new developments in the case of two young girls accused of trying to kill their friend and classmate because they say the fictional horror character, "Slenderman," told them to do it.

Now the attorney for one of the girls says she should not be tried as an adult. We'll talk about that with our legal eagles, Richard Herman, who is here in Atlanta, and Avery Friedman, joining us from Cleveland, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Prosecutors in Wisconsin say two young girls who tried to kill a classmate in order to please the horror character, "Slenderman," should be tried as adults. The girls were 12 at the time they lured another girl into the woods and then stabbed her allegedly repeatedly.

An attorney for one of the girls says the case should be moved to juvenile court. Now we're getting a chance to hear from the girls themselves. Their words are very chilling. Nick Bore with our affiliate, WISN, has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK BOHR, WISN REPORTER (voice-over): While the two then 12-year- olds are charged with trying to kill their friend last Memorial Day weekend, the fictional creature, "Slenderman," is also a central character.

In the recorded interviews with police, for the first time we hear them explain, Annisa, who was first to come across his tales on a website called "Creepypasta Wiki."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horror stories to purposely scare you. They had these proxies as people call them.

BOHR: Annisa says once she showed the stories to Morgan, the two quickly began to believe the stories were real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Morgan said, I think we should be proxies and I was like, OK, how would we do that? And she said we have to kill.

BOHR: Morgan admitted the plan targeting her long-time friend was hard to explain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was my only friend for a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would you hurt your only friend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was necessary.

BOHR: These interviews are only public because their attorneys introduced them as evidence. We wondered why they would want such an unflattering picture out in the public. Prominent defense attorney, Craig Mastantuono, who is representing the girls, explains.

CRAIG MASTANTUONO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You're always a little worried about how your client presents for potential future proceedings. Here there appears to have been a decision made to present video evidence because it would support a second degree intentional homicide attempt at this critical early stage that could get the children back into juvenile court.

BOHR: That means demonstrating the girls truly believed slender man was real and was a threat to them and their families. In Milwaukee, Nick Bohr, WISN, 12 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in our legal guys now, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor joining us from Cleveland, although you should be here in Atlanta. We're going to have to get our calendars together.

And Richard Herman in New York, criminal defense attorney and law professor who did make his way here to Atlanta. So we will -- we're throwing you a big old hug, though, Avery.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: There we go.

WHITFIELD: All right, very serious topic. Let's talk now about whether these girls should be charged as adults. We're talking about Morgan Geyser and Annisa Weir, charged with committing attempted first degree murder, placing the case in adult court.

So Richard, is that where it belongs? Of course, their attorneys arguing they were just 12 at the time. This should be in juvenile court, but should it? How do you make that determination? RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That's the argument. And the issue is, can a 12-year-old be rehabilitated so that they have a chance at life, you know, to live a life. If they're tried as adults and the prosecutor had the choice here to go with first degree or second degree.

Had he charged him with second degree, the girls could have been tried in juvenile court, faced a situation where if convicted, stay incarcerated up until about the 25 years of age, get rehabilitation and treatment. That's what they need.

And then have a chance at life. If they get convicted now in adult court, charged as adults, they can get up to 65 years in prison. They're going to be in prison for the majority of their life is that right? That's the moral dilemma here.

WHITFIELD: So then, Avery, doesn't the argument also have to be made about whether these young girls knew what they were doing. You know, were they psychotic? Were they delusional? When you listen to the audiotapes, videotapes of these young girls, at least one of them talking about it felt like air.

It didn't necessarily feel like she was stabbing a person, but they couldn't stop. And when you hear that, you wonder is there a mental argument to be made here of them not really physically and mentally being present at this moment, and does that assist in trying to determine whether they should be tried as adults or juveniles.

FRIEDMAN: Well, and that's what the judge in this case, Fredricka, is going to have to conclude, one way or the other, and we're expecting that ruling on the 13th of March. For me in terms of my services as a probation officer, the juvenile court, my years as counsel and even serving on the bench.

I'm absolutely convinced that when -- and by the way, the plot -- the plot for the stabbing was developed when they were 11 years old. It was the 12th birthday that preceded the stabbing.

But there is no way on earth -- we've heard medical testimony about the incapacity of children at this age, these two girls. So it strikes me that even though the prosecutor is going to try them as adults.

And there's precedent, believe it or not, in Wisconsin, trying 12- year-olds as adults. I think ultimately, this case belongs in juvenile court.

WHITFIELD: You do.

FRIEDMAN: If there is any chance of rehabilitating these children, it should be exercised. Warehousing them for a lifetime, Fredricka, is the wrong thing to do.

WHITFIELD: And you're in agreement with that too, Richard. I guess I'm surprised to hear both of you, you know, talk about that, because we're talking about such a heinous crime, and we're also talking about, you know, stabbing seems like a much more passionate way of murdering somebody and --

FRIEDMAN: And planned, and planned.

WHITFIELD: And planned especially planned, you know, nearly a year in advance and --

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: It almost seems like, you know, an argument can be made that maybe these young girls, even though they were just 11 in the planning and the 12 alleged execution of this crime, they were also a little precocious. Maybe they were a little adulter, bigger than their years because, boy, this is such a heinous offense.

HERMAN: Well, Justice Kennedy, Supreme Court, recently opined that immature kids lead to immature acts in some sum and substance. But here, Fred, one of the girls was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: And it's believed by the interviews they have had with medical personnel they truly believed -- if they didn't kill this girl, their family and friends would be killed by this "Slenderman."

WHITFIELD: So then the makers of a "Slenderman," would they in any way be held culpable, liable, being instrumental in --

HERMAN: No.

WHITFIELD: -- in luring or convincing these kids to do this?

HERMAN: I don't think so. I think the thrust here is going to be --

FRIEDMAN: I think it's a great question, actually.

HERMAN: But will these young girls, who are now 12 years old, will they have a chance to live a life after the age of 25 if they get convicted --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HERMAN: -- or are they going to spend perhaps 65 years in prison. Wisconsin is a very difficult state for this type of prosecution. They allow it, as Avery said, and we'll see.

WHITFIELD: All right, before we go, Avery, real quick, why is that -- is there a window of opportunity there, possibly in that argument?

FRIEDMAN: I don't -- you know what, I think some of the parents knew that at least Morgan was involved in this. That's a question, a civil question that really needs to be answered. We balance that against first amendment, freedom of expression. But you know what, I think children, vulnerable kids, can fall prey to this sort of thing and that's a question that remains to be seen.

WHITFIELD: Scary, I don't know. All right, Avery Friedman, thanks so much. Richard Herman, we've got a nice shot of your tie, Richard, while you were here. That was just a funny little camera move. We got a little creative there.

FRIEDMAN: And thank you, Richard, for warming the seat up, by the way.

WHITFIELD: That's right. You know, we've got another seat for you here, Avery. So we'll get our calendars together, the three of us will be here, you know, arm in arm. It's going to happen soon.

FRIEDMAN: Wonderful.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much. Much more in the NEWSROOM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In Iraq, the prime minister responded today to the destruction of ancient artifacts at the hands of ISIS. He calls the vandals barbarians and vowed to hunt them down. The prime minister made those comments today while reopening Iraq's National Museum, which was ransacked during the fall of Baghdad back in 2003.

And President Barack Obama has taken much criticism in this country for not referring to ISIS as Islamic extremists, but one Middle East leader agrees with Mr. Obama. CNN's Fareed Zakaria sat down with Jordan's King Abdullah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": President Obama has gotten into a little trouble or at least received some criticism because he says he doesn't want to call groups like ISIS Islamic extremists because he doesn't want to give them the mantle of legitimacy by acknowledging that they're Islamic. Do you think he's right?

KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: I think he is right. And I think this is something that has to be understood on a much larger platform because they're looking for legitimacy they don't have inside of Islam. When we're asked in this debate, you know, are you a moderate or extremist, what these people want is to be called extremists.

They take that as a badge of honor. So to label Islam under the term of extremists and moderates is completely wrong. So I think by making this compassion that they're extremist Muslims is working exactly what these people want.

No, we're Muslims. I don't know what these people are, but they definitely do not have any relationship to our faith.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And you can see Fareed's full interview with Jordan's King Abdullah Sunday, 10:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." All right, a football player who once faced charges of child abuse went around against the NFL. We'll tell you what's on the line with his case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We have much more straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, and it all starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNIE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Would somebody please put this dress back in the closet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blue and black.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tan and white.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blue and black.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I saw white and gold and anyone who says differently is nuts.

MOOS: Not since the Monica Lewinsky scandal has there been such a frenzy over a blue dress or maybe you see it as gold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy. I love it, but I hate it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a conspiracy by the white and gold people to make the blue and blacks look crazy.

MOOS: How can people look at the exact same photo and see different colors? Better ask an eminent ophthalmologist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have spent their lives studying this, tell me that they know this exists, but in the 30 or 40 years in their careers, they have never seen a single picture bring out the difference like this one is.

MOOS: What? Taylor Swift tweeted, I'm confused and scared. P.S., it's obviously blue and black. Speaker of the House, John Boehner, concurred on #thedress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All our perceptions are colored by quirkiness of our wiring.

MOOS: Dr. Julia Haller says individuals differ in how we perceive color, and there is something about the lighting, the angle and the digital quality of this image that makes our brains susceptible to processing it by adding or subtracting white light.

(on camera): Does anybody get this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can officially confirm that the color is royal blue with black trimming. MOOS (voice-over): The company that sells the dress for 77 bucks says sales of this particular design are up 850 percent. They may start making it in white and gold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I could find a dress that changed colors for different people, I would buy it.

MOOS: But in this case, it's the image, not the dress that changes color. For some, it changes right before their eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now the black is gold. I know I'm old, but I'm not dead yet.

MOOS (on camera): You're confident that you understand this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well --

MOOS (voice-over): While scientists grapple, Legos made their own versions of the dress and those run-away llamas that captured America's heart were soon wearing black and blue and white and gold. This is the like the Mona Lisa of ophthalmology. Jeanne Moos, CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leonardo would have loved this.

MOOS: New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Happening right now in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOURDAIN: Critics of the government and critics of Putin, bad things seemed to happen to them.

NEMTSOV: Yes, unfortunately, existing power represent what I say Russia of 19th Century not of 21st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Eerie words from outspoken Russian critic, Boris Nemtsov, who was gunned down in the streets of Moscow. Authorities saying today his murder maybe to destabilize the country.

Plus, a global hunt for missing teens, why there are fears that they are joining ISIS.

And an 11th-hour reprieve to keep money flowing to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, but the funding fight definitely not over.