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Reports: "Jihadi John" Identified; Brooklyn Men Busted in Alleged ISIS Plot; Homeland Security Politics

Aired February 26, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We are following breaking news this morning.

There are reports that the ISIS executioner in many of those beheading videos has been identified. He is identified as a British national. "The Washington Post" and BBC say he grew up in West London and it's believed he travelled to Syria in 2012 and later joined ISIS. We will have many more details for you at the top of the hour.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That situation obviously feeding into our understanding of what just happened here in New York City. Another case of home-grown terror, three Brooklyn men taken into custody for allegedly aiding ISIS.

According to federal authorities, two of the suspects plotted to fly to Turkey and cross the border into Syria to join ISIS on the battlefield. The third suspect allegedly hatched and financed the scheme. Authorities say if the plot failed, the suspects threatened to bomb Coney Island and shoot Barack Obama.

CAMEROTA: ISIS hostage numbers spiking in Syria. A human rights organization says the terror group is holding 262 Assyrian Christians hostage and they fear they could be forced into sex slavery or executed. All of this unfolding as fighting intensifies between Kurdish forces and ISIS.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: French police arresting three al Jazeera journalists for flying illegal drones in Paris. They have now been released, although officials say one of them is still facing charges. Authorities in Paris are no closer rather to solving the mystery of those other troubling drones sightings this week over some of their infamous or famous landmarks in the city. They say whoever is doing this is deliberately interfering with official surveillance capabilities.

CUOMO: All right. So, we have the reports of the identity of the man who has been called Jihadi John. We told you that. We have the three Brooklyn men who have been arrested for a plot here, domestically.

So, how will this all play into the homeland security funding fight? Is this enough pressure for Congress to get past their petty politics and keep this country safe?

We asked. Hopefully, they have an answer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: And we do have breaking news, because reports out this morning that Jihadi John, the executioner with the British accent in several of those ISIS beheading videos, has been identified.

Let's get right to CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr for all of the breaking details.

Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

These reports emerging from the "Reuters" news agency, and they are attributing some of their information working to the BBC and to "The Washington Post." So, a number of news organizations led by "Reuters" now coming out with this information.

They are identifying the man known to the world as Jihadi John actually as Mohammed Emwazi. He is a Briton from a well-to-do family who grew up in West London, but was born in Kuwait. He graduated, according to these new reports, from college, with a degree in computer programming. He's believed to actually have travelled to Syria sometime in 2012, and then later joined up according to these news reports, with the Islamic State.

And, of course, he came to the world's attention at least in these horrifying videos. You see some of the stills there, masked in black. Carrying out executions, the first one, the world saw, was of the journalist James Foley last year, appearing publicly in a total of four videos, four execution videos.

What these reports are saying is that in his, he's in his mid 20s, and he appears to have left very little trail on social media, which is interesting, because, of course, the U.S. and Western intelligence services have been saying it is through social media they are so much able to try and track operatives of the Islamic State. But apparently, Mohammed Emwazi, also known as Jihadi John was not using social media.

A couple of interesting details in this article: it says that he's been known to wear stylish clothes, that he's very careful about making eye contact with women. That he is an adherent to his Islamic faith.

How do they identify him? How do they know? Well, in the news reports, an activist in London is quoted, a man named Qureshi is quoted as saying he had interaction with him Emwazi, and when he saw the videos, the resemblance was strong and he is certain that it is Emwazi. Reports are indicating that this man, Qureshi, is expected to hold a news conference in London shortly. So there will be perhaps much more about all of this.

So far, and it's early here in Washington, the Obama administration, the intelligence agencies not commenting on this, but there is a statement from the Metropolitan Police in London saying they also will not comment on the identity of this person and it does remain an ongoing counterterrorism investigation, and that in the past, they have asked media organizations not to name the man.

Back to you, guys.

CUOMO: All right, Barbara, that's not unusual for their operational security. They want to do that.

But assuming that the reports from "Reuters" quoting the BBC and "The Washington Post," are accurate, we now see a parallel between what's going on with Jihadi John and what just happened here in the United States with homegrown threats, which is that authorities are watching people. But when do they act? When is it right? When is it enough? And that's obviously a risky calculation.

Let's discuss with Peter Newman, director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization, and Michael Weiss, author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror."

Michael, we hear about the background of the man known as Jihadi John, right, whoever he gave him that, whatever. Born in Kuwait, moves to London, well-to-do, well-educated, supposed to go on a safari as part of a graduation gift as any well-heeled kid would. Gets messed with by authorities, says he was messed with again a second time, becomes disgruntled, hooks up with a group Kaj (ph) or something like that, and then starts this radicalization play.

What do you see here?

MICHAEL WEISS, CO-AUTHOR, "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR": Well, this is almost out of central casting. Every case of British radicalization that I've ever seen, including remember the underpants bomber, the guy that tried to blow up the airliner over Detroit? He went to the University College of London, was the president of the Islamic Society there, came from a very well-to-do Nigerian family. His father was a minister in the government, who actually blew the whistle on him, and said, I think my son is going down this dark path.

None of this surprises me, assuming that this is indeed Jihadi John. The organization that seems to have identified him, CAGE, used to be called Cageprisoners, the organization was founded by a man called Moazzam Begg, who himself was a former Guantanamo Bay detainee, recently had been arrested and spent six months in prison in the U.K. for trying to coordinate with fighters in Syria.

So, that also doesn't surprise me that they would be the ones to identify this guy. CUOMO: So, the concern, Peter, we see it as a parallel with the

arrests that happened yesterday here in Brooklyn, outside New York City, is so you knew who this guy was, the British authorities, you were following them, but somehow he still gets to go and do what he is doing now.

Where is that line? Is this a missed opportunity? Or is this part of the risk versus reward play in the fight against terrorism?

PETER NEUMANN, PROFESSOR OF SECURITY STUDIES, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: It's very, very difficult. It's very difficult right now for a lot of security agencies because of the volume of cases. The number of people who are on the security agency's radar screen are higher than ever before, and constantly they have to make choices as to whether to watch that person or to not watch that person.

If you want to put surveillance on someone, 24/7, you need about 15 to 20 officers. No security agency in the world has the capacity to have everyone under surveillance all the time.

So, it is always hard choices, tough choices, based on -- you know, judgment, essentially as to whether someone going to go off and do something crazy tomorrow, or whether someone is just you know, starting to radicalize. It's very tough.

CUOMO: All right. You just talked about the volume of cases. And that's very much true here in the United States.

Let's listen to the FBI director, James Comey, talking about how many cases he has involving potential radicalization with ISIS. Very specific.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Those people exist in every state. I have home-grown violent extremist investigations in every single state. Until a few weeks ago, there was 49 states, Alaska had none, which I couldn't quite figure out, but now Alaska has joined the group. So, we have investigations of people in various stages of radicalizing in all 50 states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So, there are two questions -- one is, why is a call of such barbarism, such raw savagery, appealing to people in sophisticated places with great opportunities and open education?

WEISS: It's a great question. I mean, look, there are different typologies people who go off to want to join the Islamic. There are those who are pious Muslims who fired by the atrocities being committed by the Assad regime or the authoritarianism of Nouri al- Maliki in Iraq, the Islamic State appeals to them on the basis of we are the custodians and the safeguards of Sunni Islam. There are the adrenaline junkies, who think that there's really attractive and interesting about ultra violence and they want to link up with these guys that are going around the world in a very exotic fashion, cutting people's heads off.

Then, there are just psychopaths, people who, you know -- I keep coming back to why does Charles Manson continue to get married after decades in prison, right? What kind of woman would be attracted to somebody like that?

CUOMO: And we're seeing women who want to marry ISIS fighters?

WEISS: Indeed, absolutely. There's actually a den mother of these women who -- she comes from Glasgow, actually. So, again, coming back to the U.K. And she's the one who coordinates with these girls, including possibly the three British Muslim women who have gone over to Syria to bring them over and say we have Islamic State fighters ready to be married to you here.

There is something in human psychology that seems to be lured to this kind of barbaric aspect of this.

CUOMO: John Miller, the New York Police Department terror chief, wrote an interesting column, Patrick, in which he -- Peter, in which he said, what the arrests here show is that it doesn't matter what the government says, it doesn't matter what our investigative efforts are. This comes down to Muslim leaders, charismatics and families, and what they do to deter their own from becoming radicalized. Do you agree?

NEUMANN: That's more or less what I said last week at the White House summit. I said that it's very important for us to empower families, because 99 percent of the families of those guys who go to Syria know about it, and they do not want their kids to go. They often have very, very painful arguments with their kids and they're leaving, anyway, they do not know what to do. They need to be educated and they need to be assisted, because they're often the last people that have some degree of leverage of these people.

And it is really the weak point, if you want, from the perspective of the Islamic State, because the parents are listened to in some cases and we've seen cases where parents convince their kids to stay. So, it's really, really important to empower parents.

CUOMO: Peter Neumann, Michael Weiss, thank you very much.

And we see, Michaela, in this most recent arrest here in Brooklyn -- the 19-year-old kid, his mother took his passport. But what a tough situation for the parent -- you don't like what's happening to him, but the alternative is to tell the authorities and he gets arrested? There needs to be a path of discourse that helps of parents achieve the right goal.

PEREIRA: A new generation of parental nightmare, right, Chris? All right. Thanks so much.

Well, given all of this that's going on, shutdown showdown, can Congress get past the politics to keep the all-important Department of Homeland Security fully operational? Big question we'll explore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. There is breaking news this morning. "Reuters" quoting the BBC and also "The Washington Post," reporting, the man known as Jihadi John has been identified. And was known and monitored by British authorities before he went on his jihad jaunt.

This news coming on the heels of three Brooklyn men arrested just yesterday, for planning terrorist plots at home and abroad.

CAMEROTA: Now, all this as there's this political showdown in Washington, D.C. over funding the Department of Homeland Security. And we are one day away from a partial shutdown of that agency.

So, let's bring in John Avlon. He's our CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast". And Margaret Hoover, CNN political commentator, Republican consultant and Sirius XM host.

Nice to see you both of you.

John --

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Good morning.

John, let me start with you.

So, all of this breaking news of terrorism, the terror arrests in Brooklyn, Jihadi John being named. What is the hold-up in Congress about authorizing funding for the DHS?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean it makes you understand why Republican Congressman Pete King said that the current situation is living in a world of crazy people, except it's Groundhog Day on Capitol Hill. We've seen this kind of gamesmanship over and over and over, but rarely with the kind of self-inflicted high stakes.

And the Jihadi John news, the Brooklyn arrests yesterday reflect this is not a political game. People in Congress may be doing some positional bargaining, but there are real-world stakes and people are going to be furious at this self-inflicted wound if we go over the cliff.

CUOMO: I'm with John Avlon on this, Margaret. You're down there in D.C. You're going to be around the conservative brain trust.

I think this is a game-changer, because it's not just playing politics, it's not just that there are non-essential employees, everybody gets back pay. There's a real threat. You can't mess with our best chance of stopping it.

You think this will make a change?

HOOVER: No. Chris, you just said it the issue is that every single essential employee is still going to show up to work.

CUOMO: The optics are bad, though, Margaret.

HOOVER: The optics are bad, Chris, but this is -- let's not be alarmist here like President Obama was last night. I mean, he essentially said, you know, we could have a terrorist -- I mean, he was really threatening the highest of stakes. And with all --

CUOMO: The guy wanted to kill him. The guy was saying I want to kill the president, that's why he's concerned.

HOOVER: He gets, look, that's not OK. The Secret Service is there because he gets hundreds of threats like those every single day and the Secret Service is still going to show up for work. Not good that they won't get paid for two weeks.

And, by the way, they'll probably go off the cliff. My prediction is they may not scramble it together by midnight on Friday, but they'll probably get it done through the weekend. And so, people won't get paid for two days and then they'll get paid.

And that's not good. It's not good optics, but it's not like a terrorist attack is going to happen on the watch and on the backs of Republicans who couldn't get their funding deal together in 24 hours.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting. I mean, Margaret is saying it's about paychecks, it's about jobs. It's not about exposing us to more terror attacks.

AVLON: Well, first, let's knock on wood. Second of all, I mean, let's remember, the politics, it's perception.

And this is a self-inflicted wound that the Republicans devised the idea they were going to tie the president's immigration executive order to DHS funding. So, they chose the target. And even Mitch McConnell realized when the deal got close that this was a bad deal, a bad set up. And he's trying to set up an off-ramp.

Democrats got on board with him yesterday. Now, it looks like the House and the Senate aren't even speaking, the two Republican leaders, and there's no coordinated plan to go forward.

CAMEROTA: But the Senate might vote on it today. The Senate might vote on the Mitch McConnell plan today.

AVLON: Yes, and Boehner is waiting to find out what the Senate does before he takes action.

Look, you know, whether we go over the cliff, think more likely we get a short-term band-aid to bridge this because the optics are so bad and everybody realizes it. But again, the open question, as always is, can John Boehner control the crazy caucus?

CUOMO: But also, look, Margaret, I think the balance of play has shifted, because the momentum was on the side of look, these executive orders are looking sketchy, the courts say they're sketchy, the president has said they were sketchy, we have high ground.

Now, you got guys running around in Brooklyn who want to kill the president, who make it to a jet way before they're arrested. Now, it seems like no, the balance of play is, take care of my safety first, take care of your politics, second.

HOOVER: Yes, no, I think that's right. I don't think again, Department of Homeland security is not going to continue to do its job to the best of its ability --

CUOMO: Yes, but you're surmising, this is until God forbid, something happens and some guy says I wasn't there that day because I was furloughed.

HOOVER: Fully, fully reject that alarmist attitude, Chris. I think that's a media play. But, look, I don't agree with the optics.

Let's keep in mind here, President Obama really played politics with his immigration executive orders and Republicans walked into the trap. So, Republicans right, they did this, made stupid choices, have gotten themselves in really untenable position. And now this, item on the agenda is taking up all the oxygen as opposed to all the constructive Republican governing policy motives they ran on, they said they were going to work on in this Congress. Where is tax reform? Where are the trade deals?

CUOMO: Whose fault is this?

HOOVER: Where's -- it's the Republicans fault, and that's what's so upsetting and disappointing about this, is that they took the bait from the president, they knew he was playing politics and they walked straight in the trap. That's what's disappointing about this for Republicans.

AVLON: I feel Margaret's pain on this, but this is the standard that the Republicans set. Mitch McConnell promised no shutdowns on his watch. The challenge is not just to fight the president, but to show you can govern. And this is the first major test and they're going straight for the cliff.

CAMEROTA: All right. Thanks. We'll end on that cheery note.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: And we'll see what happens tomorrow. John and Margaret, thanks so much.

AVLON: It matters right now. These arrests, you know, you can call it alarmist if you want. But they're real, they just happened and people are going to focus on them.

This is one story, a lot of news this morning. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The man known as Jihadi John has now been identified by his real name.

CAMEROTA: Started to radicalize, after a planned safari in Tanzania.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very important to identify who else might be involved with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arrests made in Brooklyn, New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intent and capability of is what makes these guys dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some serious pause about terrorism in America.

JEH JOHNSON, DHS SECRETARY: We need a fully-funded Department of Homeland Security.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defense never proved that he was clinically insane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His mental illness was not severe enough that he did not know what he was doing was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His insanity defense wasn't going to fly.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to NEW DAY.

We do have a lot of breaking news for you this morning.

There are reports that Jihadi John, the masked executioner with the British accent in several of those gruesome ISIS beheading videos, has been identified.

CUOMO: Let's get right to CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in London for breaking details. The big thing here, Nic, is that authorities knew about him. They know the path to how he got where he got and that's very important for us this morning.

What do we know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is information that "Reuters" is reporting from the "Washington Post" and from the BBC. They are calling Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi.

According to the details in "The Washington Post" report from which "Reuters" has got the name, they're saying he lived in London. He was a Kuwaiti origin. He was from a middle class, well-to-do family, that had studied computer and electronics here in the U.K., at least computer studies here in the U.K. at the University in London. And the detail goes on to talk about how he went to Tanzania in 2009,

as a sort of a graduation gift from his family. But when he was coming back, he was arrested by authorities on arrival and sent back to the U.K. The British intelligence agencies, according to this "Washington Post" report, say that he was question -- the British intelligence agencies questioned him. They questioned him again in the U.K.

And that the details of how precisely he came to go to Syria, his precise reasoning and rationale, that's not clear at this stage. But what is clear from London is that despite the fact that he has been named publicly now, the police here, the metropolitan police in charge of counterterrorism say they are not going to respond to this naming. That lives depend on this, on this sort of information being kept, if you will, out of the public domain.

And for that reason they say they're not going to comment any further on this particular issue of Jihadi John -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Well, operational security is often in play and we try to respect the government's wishes whenever we can in that regard, at least.

But, Nic, let me ask you this -- it raises the question, you knew who he was, you were following him, the irony of him going on some, you know, graduate gift safari.