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Kurds Repel ISIS Attack Near Erbil; Mike Huckabee Leads GOP, Hillary Clinton Leads Democrats in CNN Poll; Defense Begins in "American Sniper" Trial; Ukrainian Troops Pull Back from Debaltseve.

Aired February 18, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, after hours of heavy fighting, Kurdish forces in Iraq have repelled an assault by ISIS fighters. The terrorists were hit by coalition airstrikes after ISIS militants launched an offensive near the city of Erbil. Commanders say about 40 ISIS fighters were killed in the firefight. This is the latest try by ISIS to infiltrate through Kurdish lines and take over the region's capital. Let's discuss the significance of this in the broader fight against ISIS.

Let's bring in Chris Chivvis, associate director of the International Security and Defense Policy Center. Chris, thank you so much for joining me. We hear a lot about, from in these towns, battles back and forth, ISIS taking on Kurdish forces in Erbil. How significant is this battle in Erbil and the fact that the Kurdish forces were able to hold them off, in terms of broader context of trying to take Iraq on the part of ISIS?

CHRIS CHIVVIS, ASSOCIATED DIRECTOR, THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENSE POLICY CENTER: I think it's significant. Obviously what we see -- one of the things we've seen over the last couple months in Iraq is that forces whether Kurdish or Shia, have done a better job of holding their own territory than they have of actually pushing back ISIS in the more predominantly Sunni areas of the country. I think it does matter. We wouldn't want to read too much into it.

BOLDUAN: In terms of reading too much into it, I heard -- we heard from other analysts that this was an attempt at -- I guess you call it a distraction on the part of ISIS, trying to spread the Kurdish forces too thin in order to get their eye off the prize, which is Mosul. Explain that.

CHIVVIS: I think it's plausible. Again, we have to see how it will play out to know for sure.

BOLDUAN: Looking forward, the next front could be Libya.

CHIVVIS: Right.

BOLDUAN: That's where the more than 20 Egyptian Christians were killed in that horrific propaganda video in recent air strikes were there as well. Why do you think Libya could be the next front for ISIS? Why is that such a danger for coalition forces?

CHIVVIS: I think this is an enormously complicating problem for the United States and for its allies. It's a really potentially significant threat to stability across all of North Africa. Right now it's possible that we have more ISIL fighters in Libya than in any country other than Iraq and Syria. It's clear that ISIL is trying -- to me, it's clear ISIL is trying to use Libya as a jumping-off point to gain a foothold in North Africa to make it more difficult for the United States and partners to combat it in general.

BOLDUAN: How serious do you think the threat is? I mean, do you believe that is could take over Libya, because we now have news out of Italy, Italy expressing concern about the threat of ISIS being so close to their nation and so close to the Mediterranean. How worried should Europe be, do you think?

CHIVVIS: I don't think it's likely that ISIS is going to be able to take over Libya. But I think that they can do a lot of harm in what is already a very, very bad situation. I mean, we have a civil war going on in Libya right now. ISIS has moved in and taken advantage of that. It's interesting, you also have al Qaeda's local affiliate operating in Libya. ISIS appears to be moving to the side to some degree which makes me think they are gaining ground. The concern is this they would use Libya not only to destabilize Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Mali, but if they wanted to, to conduct terrorist operations in Europe itself.

BOLDUAN: It poses as threat to Europe.

Also joining the conversation now is Colonel Derek Harvey, a former senior intelligence adviser to General David Petraeus, especially at the height of the Iraq war.

Colonel, great to see you.

We've been talking about the fight in Iraq and in Libya. Let's stick with Libya for a second. How significant do you think as Chris puts it he thinks this is the second front of is. What do you think?

COL. DEREK HARVEY, FORMER SENIOR INTELLIGENCE ADVISOR TO GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS: I think we're going to see multiple fronts and not just in Libya. They are taking advantage of the crisis in that society there. They have a good beach head. They are taking advantage of the tribal dynamics in Libya. There will be limits for them because it's a difficult environment even for ISIS to expand in a significant way because there are forces that will be aligned against them. It's going to be greatly destabilizing and it will give them a place from which they can then launch other operations and infiltrate into southern Europe.

BOLDUAN: Colonel, on that point, we are seeing greater involvement as ISIS moves into Libya and other Arab nations joining the fight against ISIS, Arab nations likes Jordan and Egypt. These are countries the United States is allied with. On the flip side, you also see administration kind of dancing around quite a bit in looking at Iraq and Syria about any involvement or coordination with Iran. The goals here, in a strange way, align with Iran, especially in those countries. What degree do you believe there is coordination between the United States and Iran because the administration definitely doesn't want to speak too directly to that.

HARVEY: I think there's some communication, but there's not tactical coordination on targets in either Iraq or in Syria. Despite the claims of the commander of Shia militia in Iraq, and comments by the Iranian codes force commanders, who is coordinating Iranian activity, they are suggesting that there is coordination. And to Sunni Arabs in the region, it looks like there is. When we bomb, it seems like the Syrian air force bombs. We've also conducted some operations in support of the ISF. Keep in mind that ISF is looked at as a Shia army at this point in time, as well as you've got Shia militias in all of the command centers coordinating and actually directing operations of the ISF in some cases.

BOLDUAN: Colonel Derek Harvey and Chris Chivvis, thank you both so much.

Coming up for us, new polling out today on the race for the White House. It shows that Democrats have a clear favorite. Republicans, well, seems still up for grabs. We'll tell you about a big shift in the GOP field.

As well as this, Jeb Bush looking to blaze his own trail when it comes to foreign policy. We'll give a major speech in just under an hour. How will he set himself apart from his older brother?

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BOLDUAN: A CNN poll out on the presidential race finds the Republican field has shifted significantly but voters are having a hard time rallying behind one candidate. Mike Huckabee is leading right now but not by much. He has 16 percent followed closely by Jeb Bush at 14. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker came in third with 11 percent. Democrats are more unified on who should be president at least at this very moment. Hillary Clinton leads the field with 61 percent. Closest competition, Vice President Joe Biden, with just 14 percent of voter support you would say followed by Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren with 10 percent support of Democrats in 2016 at the moment.

Let's get back to Jeb Bush. He hasn't officially announced his candidacy, but he's giving a policy address next hour in Chicago. We have key excerpts ahead of his speech.

We have two major themes are emerging in this speech that he's about to give. How Bush will set himself apart from his brother and father's legacy, both who led the country into wars in Iraq, and he offers very pointed criticism of President Obama's current foreign policy approach in the Middle East? One excerpt says that, "Under this administration, we're inconsistent and indecisive. We have lost the trust and confidence of our friends and we definitely no longer inspire fear in our enemies."

Joining us now, Athena Jones. And chief Washington correspondent, the host of "The Lead," Jake Tapper, might be joining us in just a second.

But, Athena, first to you.

What more do we expect to hear from Jeb Bush. Maybe not a surprise he's criticizing President Obama but the fact the family legacy is interesting.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We would expect him to be critical of President Obama's approach to foreign policy at the time when our own polling shows the American public is growing increasingly critical of the way President Obama is handling foreign policy. The bigger question here, as you mention, will be how he distinguishes himself or doesn't distinguish himself from his brother and his father, both of whom were president.

Here's some of what he'll say according to the excerpts released, "I love my father and my brother. I admire their service to the nation, the difficult decisions they had to make. I am my own man. My views are shaped by my own thinking and own experiences."

He'll also say that he knows, "His views will often be held up in comparison to theirs, sometimes in contrast to theirs." Again, that question today is, are we going to hear him draw any contrasts with his brother and his father? He's hesitated to do that in the past.

Listen to this clip from a 2010 interview with CNN's Candy Crowley. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I'll tell you that I'm the only Republican that was in office as president that never disagreed with him. And I'm not going to start now. Why do that now after two years?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN HOST, STATE OF THE UNION: Wait. Not one time did you call up and say, don't do that?

BUSH: I'm not going to start now. It's just until death do us part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Until death do us part. People here are going to be waiting to hear whether Governor Bush tries to say something that sets him apart from President George W. Bush and his father.

BOLDUAN: Athena, so interesting when you hear the past coming back to talk to you in the present.

Let's bring in Jake Tapper, host of "The lead with Jake Tapper."

On this front, he had to talk about it at some point because it's going to be a clear line of attack from Democrats. Interesting that he's doing it like this. JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, THE

LEAD: It is. I don't know how sustainable it is because obviously the decision to go to war in Iraq is one of the most controversial decisions that's been made by a U.S. president in the last decade. It's one that still resonates in the Republican Party and one that basically got President Obama elected in 2008. His idea that he's going to stand as his own man if you read excerpts, he understands that some of the foreign policy visions he puts forward will be contrasted with those of his father and brother. I think in all likelihood this idea he wants to be judged on his own is not sustainable.

BOLDUAN: Timing is everything in terms of the lead-up to announcing a presidential run. This is his second major speech. Why do you think he's taking on foreign policy now? Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that any timing of what's going on in Washington or what's going on in terms of the fight against ISIS abroad?

TAPPER: That's it exactly. Whoever the Republican nominee is, is going to have to are a strong view and vision about foreign policy. Right now most of the candidates do not have that. Most of the potential candidates do not have that. Marco Rubio is a potential exception because he's on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and he's been articulating a vision. Obviously, Rand Paul a distinct vision talking about foreign policy as well. It's an area where all of the nominees are going to have to approve their metal and talk about it. And, yes, as you note, Kate, this is a time when the nation's focus is on foreign policy because of the threats of ISIS, because of what's going on in Ukraine, other situations abroad, Boko Haram, et cetera. So it is an area that is ripe for a Republican candidate to address.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And latest CNN poll, he seems to have work to do in terms of Republican choice for nominee in 2016, but as we always say, it is very, very early to be talking about that.

Athena Jones and Jake Tapper, great to see you. Thank you both.

TAPPER: Thank you. BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the prosecution wraps in the

"American Sniper" trial and now the defense offers a peek into the life of the killer. Hear what defense witnesses had to say and why they're putting them on the stand.

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BOLDUAN: New this morning, the defense calls several witnesses, including the sister of the killer of "American sniper," Chris Kyle, after the killer's mother took the stand describing her son's history of mental health problems. The prosecution rested its case, but not before showing this video of Routh in the back of a police car after police took him into custody. The state described him as a troubled young man but argued that he knew right from wrong. Let's discuss all of the twists and turns that come with every

day with this trial. Let's bring in HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.

Joey, a couple interesting things when looking at the defense beginning their case has happened. You have a lot of family members or those who know Eddie Ray Routh well taking the stand. His sister just took the stand. I believe his mother was the first witness the defense called. What's the defense trying to do?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST & CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is big. Here's why. Remember the defense has a burden here. Normal cases the defense has no burden at all. It's the state that has a burden beyond a reasonable doubt. When you put insanity up there as an affirmative defense, now the prosecution has their burden but defense also has a burden. Is it more likely than not that Routh is insane? Who would know better than the family members? So the defense started with his mom, who knew her son. You know what, he was a happy-go-lucky guy, but he went to Iraq, went on a humanitarian mission in Haiti and he came back changed. He came back suicidal. In fact, in 2011, he was committed to a mental institution. That was voluntary. Then he was civilly committed against his will.

And, remember, eight days prior to him engaging in this killing, he was released by the veterans hospital and his mom was begging, keep him, have him stay, he's not well. So when you have a family who knows who he is and what he's become, they could address the critical issue, his state of mind.

BOLDUAN: The sister seems to reinforce that point. She's just been on the stand and she said a lot of interesting stuff. A couple of things she said is because he went to her house, he went to --

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JACKSON: Afterwards.

BOLDUAN: He went to her house after the killing. And said a lot of things. She says that he was talking nonsense. Then she said this: "The man who was my brother was not at my house. The person who came to my house is not the man who I knew was my brother."

JACKSON: Very significant, Kate. If you remember, she also makes the 911 call. On that 911 call, she's basically saying, he's crazy, he's psychotic, there's an issue here. So when you put the family members on the stand, they could address the mental state. Critical issue, did Routh know right from wrong? When you put the sister, you put the brother-in-law, they can address not only his past psychiatric issues but how he appeared. He was talking about demons. Is he schizophrenic? The defense said he was in a grip of psychosis. If they can establish he didn't know right from wrong and the family members supporting "this is not the guy we once knew," you're on your way to, he's insane.

BOLDUAN: We're seeing the contours of where the defense is making their case. An interesting point before they got to this point, the defense tried to call for a mistrial because of some -- I don't know, prosecution putting forth vials they say were drug paraphernalia found in Routh's home but it wasn't. They were vials from the crime lab.

JACKSON: That's big. Let me tell you why. When you have a prosecution that's preparing a case, that presents a case, all you have with the jury is your credibility. Remember, the prosecution's theme has been, you know what, he smoked pot, in addition to that, he was a drinker, in addition to that, he was on drugs. And that's what made him commit this act. If you could establish that, whenever you voluntarily engage in drug abuse and that drives your action, that's no excuse for criminality. That's where the prosecution was going. When you introduce two vials to make the suggestion that he was on meth and later say, I'm sorry, those weren't his vials and he wasn't on meth. Of course, the defense moved for a mistrial because it's so prejudicial.

BOLDUAN: Should they have gotten it?

JACKSON: The judge said with a curative instruction, telling the jury, disregard the vials and disregard any indication of meth, get it out of your mind. It's hard to un-ring a rung bell.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: But the judge felt it was appropriate to curative instruction the jury and they would be OK with it. Will it work? If he's convicted, it's a big issue on appeal.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Joey, it's great to see you. Thank you.

JACKSON: Great to see you, Kate, always. Thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: Programming note for all of you, make sure to watch CNN's special "The Story Behind the American Sniper." See what the film didn't show you tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up for us, major developments happening right now in Ukraine. NATO calling on Russia to withdraw all of its troops, all of its forces after Ukraine says it's pulling back from a key city. How will Vladimir Putin respond?

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BOLDUAN: NATO's chief is urging Russia to withdraw all its forces from eastern Ukraine. This, after Ukraine's military pulled most of its forces out of the strategic city of Debaltseve. The area has been the focus of bitter fighting with pro-Russian separatists. And remember, this is all happening while a supposed cease-fire has been in place.

Senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is in Donetsk with more on this. Nick, Ukraine's military said 80 percent of the Ukrainian armed

forces have pulled out of Debaltseve. What does this mean?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they think they'll have all of them out by the end of the day. It's extraordinarily hard to tell, given the fact that town has been earn circled by separatists and there's been such heavy shelling by both sides around it for days if not weeks now. This is a vitally important moment in the Ukrainian war here, the biggest war to hit the European mainland since the Balkans. We're seeing a town which wasn't really dealt with by the peace agreement because it was in Ukrainian hands then, falling to the separatists on the fourth day of the cease- fire. The separatists always said they had it because it was encircled, it fell into their territory. That was their distorted reading of the peace deal.

But, in the last few days, there's been continued bombardment. The Ukrainians seemed to have hatched a way to break out and they suggested they left in the early hours of the morning and came under intense fire on the way out.

The question is now, how many died during this violence, how many Ukrainian soldiers and also separatist, militants and civilians caught in the crossfire. We've been driving around the outskirts of Debaltseve and seen abandoned Ukrainian positions, burning APCs left behind, a huge cache of artillery shells left behind. A dramatic change on the battlefield here.

And the question remains now, Kate, what of this peace deal? Is it effectively dead in the water or are we going to see the separatists saying, what now, let's freeze or slow down the violence for a while? What of the ambition the separatists to take even more territory as well? Many in the Kiev government are concerned. We are potentially in for more violence ahead -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: And, Nick, the cease-fire seemed to have been broken the moment it was put in place. They can't really be calling this still a cease-fire when you know that Ukrainian soldiers as well as civilians are all under attack right now.

PATON WALSH: No one's really had to call that yet, because they all consider the cease-fire was able to continue with the exception of Debaltseve. But now, since the bloody conclusion, people will ask if this is peace in any way -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: Nick Paton Walsh on the ground in Donetsk doing amazing reporting. Nick, it's great to see you. Thanks so much.

Thanks for joining me. That's all for us.

"Legal View" with Randi Kaye starts right now.