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Fighting in Debaltseve Continues; LG Executive Arrested For Vandalizing Samsung Washing Machine; Leading Women: Ann Cairns; Greece Walks Away From Failed Talks; Photographer Talks of Portraying Beijing's So-Called Rat Tribe

Aired February 17, 2015 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LYNDA KINKADE, HOST: Hello, I'm Lynda Kinkade at the CNN Center. Welcome to News Stream where news and technology meet.

No sign of a ceasefire in this part of Ukraine, as shelling continues near the eastern town of Debaltseve.

Egypt attacks ISIS in Libya, launching airstrikes against the militant group.

And South Korean prosecutors indict an LG executive for allegedly vandalizing a Samsung washing machine.

A ceasefire agreement in eastern Ukraine has done little to stop the fighting in the key town of Debaltseve. Take a look.

You're looking at a pipeline exploding after it was hit by shelling. Heavy fighting has continued between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian

separatists there despite a ceasefire deal that went into effect on Sunday.

Now, for the latest on the ground, let's go to CNN Senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh who joins us from Donetsk.

And Nick, Ukraine's military said during a press conference earlier today that five soldiers had been killed and 14 wounded in just the past 24

hours.

Clearly, this shaky ceasefire is already struggling.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's difficult when you talk about it now like a ceasefire frankly. I mean, if you look

at the accepted rhetoric around this peace deal, those who support it try and suggest that it's a ceasefire except for Debaltseve.

Now, the Ukrainian military, as you say, had many losses. I've just spoken to the deputy defense minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's

Republic Edward Basorin (ph), in short the separatists. And they claim to have taken 80 percent now of Debaltseve.

Now of course that's their claim. The Ukrainian military do claim similar success, or at least that they're holding parts that they

previously had.

But the defense minister deputy went on to say that they also -- he saw with his own eyes that 60 prisoners have war have been taken from the

Ukrainian forces.

So, a very complex picture inside Debaltseve. Hard to work out quite what is really going on in there.

It's clear there is intense fighting. No doubt about that. The rebels and the Ukrainians both accepting there's been violence around the

railway station. And we're hearing figures from pro-separatist media of perhaps hundreds of Ukrainians who have allegedly surrendered. It's hard

to verify that as well.

But we, ourselves, heard the intensity of the shelling around Debaltseve just yesterday when we were in a nearby village.

The point, really, is I think here that this is a sign of a growing separatist confidence that they militarily can take Debaltseve. They

clearly have the road to the north of it, the one access road in and out cut off. That does effectively encircle it.

The question is does this mark by itself an end to the ceasefire? Is this the beginning of a new chapter of escalated violence as the

separatists move on to take yet more territory? Or is it, as their rhetoric suggests, simply them cleaning up what they now consider an

internal matter through their slightly distorted interpretation of that Minsk agreement of what's now their internal territory under those Minsk

lines were defined.

Messy, but certainly not a ceasefire, Lynda.

KINKADE: And Nick, under this so-called agreement, the withdrawal of heavy weapons is expected to happen today, or is meant to happen today.

What are the expectations on the ground? Will it happen?

WALSH: Why I think the simplest answer is no, really. I mean, the rhetoric now is about who is fighting who where and who is winning, not

about -- well hang on in a minute, in a couple of hours let's just pull our heavy weapons back.

The fear is as we saw yesterday ourselves, there's a lot of heavy weaponry still on the move towards the front. It's obvious from what we

can hear in many different places the separatists are still firing their heavy weapons. They accept that they're doing that to defend their

positions, they say, in response to Ukrainian fire.

Well, the Ukrainians say they're responding to separatist fire.

We saw ourselves Ukrainian heavy weapons driving towards the front yesterday. And that was roughly when they should have been going the other

way.

So, the issue was, though, it needed to be a peace sort of period of quiet during the ceasefire to enable that second stage of the heavy

withdrawal to begin. There wasn't even the quiet. So we haven't seen the withdrawal. And then of course it's highly unlikely we'll even get to the

next bit, which is the political solution and the buffer zone between two sides.

The question now, really, is this fight for Debaltseve, who is winning and does the victor then move on to try and achieve something else

militarily, or does that then effectively set the lines for the Minsk truce that many wanted? I say truce, but frankly it doesn't look like that now.

And it didn't really since it began -- Lynda.

KINKADE: It does not look very optimistic at all. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much for that update.

Now to Denmark and the Copenhagen cafe where a gunman opened fire over the weekend cordoned off today as a suspicious letter was left outside. A

bomb disposal unit safely removed it.

And we're also learning more about the suspected gunman who officials say pledged allegiance to ISIS on Facebook before attacking the cafe and a

synagogue.

And two men accused of agreeing to hide the gunman have been charged.

Meanwhile, an estimated 40,000 people attended a candlelit vigil for the two victims on Monday night where the Danish prime minister called for

national unity.

Let's get the latest now from Copenhagen. And senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is there.

And Nick, we know the 22-year-old gunman pledged allegiance to the ISIS leader, but what can you tell us about the fears that he may have been

radicalized in jail?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what we've been hearing from the Danish ambassador to the United States saying

that there was a concern that that period he had in jail, and he was previously been a gang member and convicted of a violent unprovoked knife

attack on a passenger on a train here in 2013. So he was in jail for that.

And what we're learning now is that while he was in jail, he may have become radicalized. Certainly the intelligence services here were tipped

off to this changed behavior, but in the last few hours we've heard from the Danish intelligence service, the PET, and they have said that although

they were aware of him and the changed behavior, they did not have enough information, did not believe that he was on the verge of mounting an

attack.

But what we have learned now is that just really in the hours prior to launching that attack, he posted on what appears to be his Facebook page, a

pledge of allegiance to the ISIS leader al-Baghdadi, and really an indication as well that he was on the verge of doing something, of some

kind of event or attack even.

So he was really putting up a lot of warning signs about what e was about to do. But of course the period of time between those warnings and

the actual attack itself was far too short, it appears, for anyone to act on it and to prevent this attack -- Lynda.

KINKADE: And can you tell us more about this suspicious letter that was found on the scene near the cafe, the site of the first shooting. What

do we know about it?

ROBERTSON: Well, this is -- was a letter was a letter that was found just outside the cafe in the early hours of this morning behind me here.

And at a normal time, some piece of litter or letter like that might literally have been picked up and put in a bin.

But such is the state of heightened concern about possibility of copycat attacks, or associate planning some kind of attack.

The police here who have been, until the last few hours, guarding very closely this cafe, called in the army bomb disposal team. They came in,

took the package away, decided that it wasn't dangerous, opened up the area again to the public. But it really is indicative of the fact -- the

heightened alert, and concern here at the moment still remains at a very high level, Lynda.

KINKADE: Nic Robertson in Copenhagen, thank you very much. Good to talk to you again.

And the terror attacks have clearly shaken Copenhagen, as Nic just mentioned, an increased feeling of unease we see in the country's Jewish

community.

And for one Danish family celebrating the Bar Mitzvah over the weekend, the violence came terrifyingly close. Karl Penhaul reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Flowers for the dead, fear among the living.

METTE BENTOW, HOSTING BAT MITZVAH: As Jews, we are always a target just for being Jews, not for our beliefs in freedom of speech or democracy,

but just because we're Jewish.

PENHAUL: Mette Bentow and husband Claus were throwing a bat mitzvah party for their daughter Hannah (ph). Meters away, outside the synagogue, a

Muslim gunman went on the rampage.

M. BENTOW: One of the security guards come in the room where we're dancing and shouts, stop the music. And we did. And shortly after that he

comes in and says, everyone downstairs.

CLAUS BENTOW, HOSTING BAT MITZVAH: So we stayed, as she said, underneath in the basement and I got the radio and I got the briefing about

somebody has been hit outside by shots.

PENHAUL: Out on the sidewalk, two police officers were wounded and Dan Uzan, a volunteer synagogue guard and basketball fanatic, lay dying.

Mourners flocked to Uzan's memorial Monday. His body was still undergoing autopsy, not yet ready for burial.

M. BENTOW: It makes us feel angry in a way that that's necessary. Why is that - why was that necessary? Why did that have to happen? I feel

tremendous gratitude towards them.

PENHAUL: Security services estimate more than 100 Danish Muslims are fighting with radical factions in Syria, but so far there's no evidence the

Copenhagen shooter ever fought in extremist ranks, yet the head of Copenhagen's synagogue said the weekend attack was a tragedy waiting to

happen.

DAN ROSENBERG ASMUSSEN, HEAD OF DANISH JEWISH COMMUNITY: Well, yes, basically we've been fearing such a thing could happen in Denmark for quite

a while. We've seen within the last three years attacks on Jewish institution, Tulus (ph), Brussels, Paris recently. And there seems to be a

pattern of these issues (ph).

PENHAUL: Flags flew at half-staff and Jewish schools stayed closed Monday.

GITTE MEYER, TAILOR: We have a school and I have my grandchild at school and I'm so worried.

PENHAUL: Some messages vowed Denmark's Jews would not be coward. Meanwhile, Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, offered them

refuge.

M. BENTOW: We love Israel and we feel that we always have a safe place to go to, and that is very nice to know. But we are Danish. We are proud to

be Danish.

PENHAUL: Proud yet humbled by the Jewish volunteer guard who laid down his life to help protect Bentow's family.

M. BENTOW: We will remember that we owe our lives to him and we will try and do our very best to be deserving of that.

PENHAUL: Karl Penhaul, CNN, Copenhagen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: In Haiti, at least 12 people have been killed, 40 were injured in an accident at a Mardi Gras carnival parade in the country's

capital Port au Prince. It happened when a carnival float hit a power line. There was a flash and people were scene collapsing.

The country's president has issued a statement expressing his sympathy.

Egypt's president says Monday's airstrikes on ISIS in Libya should not be the end. Details on what he says should happen next when we return.

And the clock is ticking to what a dangerous deadline for Greece. How its latest bailout talks with Europe ended badly with no agreement in

sight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back.

Pakistani police say at least eight people were killed in a deadly suicide bombing in central Lahore, 16 others were wounded. It happened

outside a police station. CNN has confirmed that a female constable was among those killed. The remaining casualties so far reported to be

civilians.

A break away faction of the Pakistan Taliban has claimed responsibility and has warned of other attacks.

Egypt's president says his country's dramatic intervention against ISIS in Libya should not be the end. Abdel Fatah el-Sisi wants the UN to

pass a resolution to create a global military coalition. His appeal comes a day after Egypt's military launched airstrikes against ISIS targets

across the western border.

CNN's Ian Lee has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the early morning under the cover of darkness, Egyptian F-16s roar into the night sky. Their target, ISIS

training camps and weapons depots in Libya.

The morning light reveals the destruction in Derna, the Mediterranean city close to the Egyptian border and just 200 miles from the European

coast.

The airstrikes revenge for the beheading of 21 Egyptian Christians by ISIS militants.

ABDEL FATTAH EL-SISI, PRESIDENT OF EGYPT (through translator): Egypt reserves the right of retaliation, and with the methods and timing it sees

fit for retribution from those murders and criminals who are without the slightest humanity.

LEE: The families urged the government to rescue their loved ones sooner. Now, too late. The situation in Libya grows increasingly more

dangerous.

GEN. SAMEH SEIF ELYAZAL (RET.), CHAIRMAN, AL GOMHOURIA: Number one, first risk now is definitely the western border with Libya.

LEE: Egypt already wages a bloody fight against ISIS militants in Sinai. Hundreds of policeman and soldiers have been killed in the more

than yearlong battle.

But, will Egypt commit troops to Libya as well?

ELYAZAL: I don't think we would put boots on ground. I don't this is in our, I would say, aim now. Our aim is to strike whenever we can.

LEE: Egypt's foreign minister is in the United States to seek support from the UN security council. What Egypt would like to see is the

international coalition operating in Iraq and Syria expand to Libya as well.

Cairo is also asking for political and material support.

As Egypt bangs the drums of war, the effect on ISIS in Libya is yet to be seen. Analyst Mohamed el-Jarh spoke from the Libyan city of Tobruk

(ph).

MOHAMED EL-JARH, ANALYST: I believe that the airstrike conducted by Egypt today are nothing more than a reactionary measure by the Egyptian

regime. Because it feels that it had to act somehow in a very swift manner. Will it change thing negatively for the Islamic State on the ground? I

don't believe so.

LEE: Egypt hasn't given a timeline for its current operation. But to fix Libya, it may take a lot more than killing ISIS from the sky.

Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: And as ISIS continues to inflict atrocities from Egypt to Iraq, one wonders what the group is trying to achieve. CNN's national

security analyst Peter Bergen gives us his take. He argues that ISIS actually wants to battle with foreign forces to fulfill a religious

prophesy. You can read more about that at CNN.com.

Uncertainty hangs over the future of Greece after it failed to secure a new bailout deal with Europe. The country has rejected an offer to

continue with the existing terms, calling them absurd. Instead, it wants to do away with austerity. But Greece now risks losing funding from the

European Central Bank and its EuroZone membership. And time is running out to reach an agreement.

Let's bring in CNN's Nina Dos Santos from London. And Nina, just over 10 days to go until the current terms are set to expire. And the Greek

finance minister has described the deal offered by Europe as absurd and unacceptable. How is all of this playing out?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNAITONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, there's a lot of acrimony. There's also a bit of optimism,

according to the Greek finance minister, at least according to a statement yesterday leaving those failed talks. Another round of failed talks.

We've had at least two or three of those over the course over the last week and a half alone.

And the last week and a half has been dominated by furious diplomacy here on all sides, both at the prime ministerial and head of state level,

so Alexis Tsipras, the new Greek prime minister, also trying very hard to come to some kind of terms. But, you know, the European Union and the

EuroZone countries will be in agreement with.

But it really boils down to the finance ministers of those countries that share the single currency, the EuroZone.

And this is where we saw a notable split yesterday evening. At one point, according to a number of newspapers, including the Financial Times,

a document was tabled to Greece, which Greece was ready to sign and then that was taken away and the EuroZone finance ministers, in the face of some

staunch resistance to the terms on that document from Germany and The Netherlands reportedly, a new document was put in front of them that again

was not something that the Greek government felt it could sign.

So, where does it leave us from here? Well, there's ten days to go until Greece's current bailout program expires. And if they can't get

funding between now and then, the real worry for the EuroZone countries is that the Greek banking system could collapse. And that could kick the

nation out of the EuroZone.

And Nina, there are some red lines which Greece's finance minister is not prepared to cross. What are they?

DOS SANTOS: Well, this is the point, are we going to have compromises? Are we going to have conditions set? We really don't know.

We already know what general sides of the boundary each side is standing on -- Germany, and the other EuroZone countries inside that single

currency bloc, including as I said before The Netherlands, staunchly against the idea of getting Greece any more money if Greece does not stick

to the terms of its original bailout.

But again, the new Greek government that's just been ushered in, led by a radical leftist movement, which is the Syriza Party, of which Mr.

Tsipras, Mr. Varoufakis, the prime minister and finance minister respectively, are key members has repeatedly said we were elected on a

mandate of no austerity, pushing back on the austerity measures that so far have been dictated to Greece through its two previous bailouts.

What Greece actually wants is not necessarily more bailout money with strings attached, but more time to negotiate what they would like to see as

a bridge loan here, some more flexible financial agreement, one that will allow Greece to determine its own future and one which crucially, Lynda,

will not have the same strings attached as the one that they currently have today.

KINKADE: And Nina, as we have failed talks after failed talks, what sort of impact is this having on the Greek economy?

DOS SANTOS: You know, if you take a look at the stock market, at the moment today is suffering another two-and-a-half percent fall. A lot of

that fall, as we've seen in previous days, Lynda, is largely led by the banking sector.

Because the real fear here for Greece is that we've already had a few billion taken out of the Greek financial sector so far, but we could see a

run on the banks if this country's financial future isn't sorted out beyond February 28, which is the date at the end of next week, as I've said

before, when its current bailout program expires.

If the Greeks were to allow their government to go past that deadline without having any kind of financial backstop in place, it does mean that

if people pull their money out of the bank, the ECB, the European Central Bank would not necessarily be in any position of obligation to try and save

those Greek banks and save depositors money.

And then you get into a situation where governments like this would have to theoretically impose what's called capital controls, prevent people

from taking their money out of the country.

It's a type of thing we saw back in 2001 when Argentina defaulted on its debt and its economy collapsed. It's not the type of thing that anyone

wants to see happen in the EuroZone.

KINKADE: It's a very messy and complex situation. Nina Dos Santos in London, thanks so much for joining us.

You're watching News Stream. And coming up, there's more bizarre corporate problems brewing in South Korea. Two major companies are dueling

it out over washing machines. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back.

Samsung and LG Electronics are furiously battling it out over washing machines. A South Korean court indicted an LG executive and two others for

vandalizing Samsung's laundry machines during a trade show.

Paula Hancocks has more on this dirty laundry showdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Last week, we had nut rage, this week it is washing machine fury.

South Korea's latest bizarre legal battle is between LG and Samsung.

Now the head of LG's home appliances department has been indicted for allegedly deliberately damaging four Samsung washing machines in two shops

in Germany last September. Two other executives are also facing charges.

LG says the executive didn't intentionally damage them, but he was just testing them out, and he paid for the machines. But they couldn't

resist a dig, saying in a statement the damage was probably more to do with weak hinges than anything else.

Now LG posted this CCTV footage on YouTube saying there were Samsung employees nearby. And they'd have noticed if property was being damaged.

But Samsung is saying that it is selective editing on LG's part and that the video conveniently doesn't show that no employees were watching at

the time of the alleged vandalizing.

Now Samsung says it has the unedited version, but releasing it would be, quote, inappropriate.

LG's video also shows a child swinging on the washing machine door, others using the machine roughly, and even laboratory experiments trying to

support their argument that they didn't damage the machine.

It's not the first public spat between these two companies. Back in 2012, they argued about whose refrigerator was bigger and that argument was

fought on YouTube. Both of the companies posting video showing that they could fit more goods into their refrigerator.

Now that one was settled out of court. But at this point, it looks like the South Korean courts will have to decide in the washing machine

case who is right.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Coming up, it's the biggest human migration on the planet and it's happening now. After the break, we head to China where hundreds

of millions of people are making their way home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: I'm Lynda Kinkade at the CNN Center and you're watching News Stream. These are your world headlines.

Heavy fighting has been reported in the eastern Ukrainian town of Debaltseve despite a ceasefire. A pipeline there exploded after being

struck by shelling. This, as leaders of Germany, Russia and Ukraine have agreed to take concrete steps to give observers access to the town.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military says five of its soldiers were killed in the past 24 hours.

At least 12 people have been killed, 40 were injured in an accident at a Mardi Gras carnival parade in Port au Prince, Haiti. It happened when a

carnival float hit a power line. The country's president has issued a statement expressing his sympathy.

Uncertainty hangs over the future of Greece after it failed to secure a new bailout deal with Europe. The country has rejected an offer to

continue the existing terms calling them absurd.

But Greece now risks losing funding from the European Central Bank and its EuroZone membership.

Countries throughout Asia are gearing up to celebrate the lunar new year this week. In China, hundreds of millions of people are now traveling

home for the upcoming holiday.

It's the largest human migration on Earth. Some 2.8 billion trips are expected as city dwellers make their way to family and friends sometimes in

remote corners of the country.

Among those making the trip this week, Beijing's migrant worker population. These low paid workers will get a much needed break from their

harsh city living conditions. With property prices at record highs, some have been driven below ground just to find a place to sleep, mostly in

basements without windows. And that has led some people to call these workers the Rat Tribe.

Sim Chi Yin is a photographer who has been documenting their way of life for five years. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout started by asking her whether

it was difficult to gain access to this underground world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIM CHI YIN, PHOTOGRAPHER: I decided to go and try to make portraits of them. And the way I went about it was I just started to befriend my

young migrants that I met at hair salons, you know, in restaurants. I just chatted them up.

And one of the first people I met was Li Li, or Jong Cho Li (ph). She worked in a hair salon, beauty salon and she does pedicures. Her boyfriend

and her had been in Beijing about five years by that point. They had lived in a basement for about two of those five years. And she is one of the

success stories, I must say. She's moved upstairs. She's moved above ground.

And one of the things that really struck me was she embodied the spirit that many of the young migrants I met had, which is that they're

just going to put with discomfort for a few years, the first few years in Beijing and then they're going to make it in the capital and they're going

to move up the social ladder. And she has.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now these rooms are small, dark, humid, with very poor ventilation. How has the living

situation for the so-called Rat Tribe changed in the five years you've documented them?

YIN: Well, the living spaces might seem pretty pathetic to us, and maybe I went in with this pitying attitude as well, but what I found was

that people actually make the best of their lives down there. And it's actually not all that bad.

The other option for them is to live above ground in partitioned apartments, you know, 10 to an apartment or something like that, which

makes for less privacy, actually, and it costs more as well.

LU STOUT: Now let's go inside another one of these subterranean basement rooms in Beijing. And in this photo, we see the home of a

beautician named Jao Dan (ph). And it looks like she's posing in a closet, but is that actually where she lives?

YIN: Yes. Jao Dan (ph) was in one of the smaller rooms that I photographed. The image basically captures the breadth of her room. It's

only as long as a single bed. And then, you know, she's sitting with her legs outstretched across the room and that's the width of the room.

Basically it's the width of a single bed where she sleeps, plus a fat suitcase where she keeps her stuff.

She didn't have to live there. She actually, you know, earned quite a lot more than she paid in rent. She told me that her rent was about 10

percent of her monthly wage, but she wanted to live there just because she felt -- you know, she's on her own in Beijing. She feels it's cozy and she

wants to save money for better things in the future.

LU STOUT: Now Beijing has over 20 million people, nearly a third are migrant workers. They're all there looking for better opportunities, for a

better life. But what is the reality for them? Is there true upward mobility for them in the city?

YIN: I think for some people there is true social mobility. And there are many, many stories of people who come to Beijing, start out

living in the basement and move up eventually over time.

But for many people, the (inaudible) system where migrants can't actually buy homes and settle down in Beijing is still a huge barrier to

them settling here and building lives and families here.

I think most migrants that I photographed over the last five years in the basement come with this dream of making it, but also realistic about

their -- the time they're going to spend here, most of them intend to work here for a number of years, earn some money, and eventually go home to set

up a shop to raise their families back home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: And back in 2011, a new building code came into effect forcing many of these basement homes to close, calling the dwellings

unsafe, dirty and chaotic.

Sim Chi Yin tells us that since then any underground living spaces are hard for journalists to find. She says all that may clean up -- it may

clean up Beijing's image, but it does little for the low wage migrants.

Now still to come on News Stream, breaking gender barriers. We'll hear from one woman who worked her way up from an oil rig to a top spot at

a leading credit card company. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back. It's been an unconventional, but interesting path to success for this week's Leading Woman. Ann Cairns began her career

on an oil rig. She's now the president of international markets for credit card giant Mastercard. CNN's Poppy Harlow sat down with Cairns to discuss

her journey to the top.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANN CAIRNS, MASTERCARD: And practically every job that I have done, I have put my hand up and said I want that. Don't think that, you know,

somebody else should manage your life and mange you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have to manage it.

CAIRNS: You have to.

I'm Ann Cairns, president of international markets for Mastercard.

HARLOW: Ann Cairns is someone who has always faced a challenge head on. With her title, comes the responsibility of managing operations for

Mastercard in over 200 countries.

One word that describes Ann Cairns.

CAIRNS: Oh, optimistic.

HARLOW: An observer might also say adventurous.

CAIRNS: I had landed my first job. I was the first female engineer at this research station.

HARLOW: On an oil rig.

CAIRNS: Well, it started off with designing pipelines and testing them. But then I realized there was a very cool area called offshore. I

ended up being the first woman in Britain to be on the offshore island (inaudible).

HARLOW: That experience taught her an important lesson, one she carried with her when her career shifted into banking.

You've said that you found banking in the 80s to be more sexist than the oil rig.

CAIRNS: Yes.

HARLOW: More than on the rigs? I mean, you were the only woman?

CAIRNS: Yes. But I think that engineers, as I say, are really team players. And you're seen not for who you are, but what you can do and what

part you play in that team.

HARLOW: You joined Citigroup right before Black Monday, 1987.

CAIRNS: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Crash.

CAIRNS: 19 days before Black Monday.

HARLOW: But you say you relished that time.

CAIRNS: I think if you're in the engineering world, you love fixing things.

I found that you know I thrived in that environment.

HARLOW: A trait that served her well later when she led the European team managing the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy.

Cairns now oversees 5,000 employees at Mastercard and says it's the differences and opinions of those people she's come to value.

What is the biggest mistake you've made in your career?

CAIRNS: Getting on with your peer group is something that I could have done a lot better earlier in my career. But often you are put into a

position where you are competing against your peer group. And when I moved into my current position I think it stood me in good stead, you know, to

sort of sit back and listen more at the beginning.

HARLOW: What is the best advice that you have ever received?

CAIRNS: You are only as good as your boss thinks you are. And if your boss doesn't think you're great, go and find another boss.

HARLOW: I love that.

You want to be CEO of Mastercard one day?

CAIRNS: I think we have a fantastic CEO in RJ, but you know I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to be ambitious and have the next job.

HARLOW: So that's a yes.

CAIRNS: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: One impressive woman and some great advice there.

Well, that does it for us here at News Stream. I'm Lynda Kinkade. But don't go anywhere, World Sport with Amanda Davies starts right now.

END