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CNN NEWSROOM

Eddie Ray Routh Trial Underway; Obama on the Plan to Fight ISIS; Former Sony Exec Amy Pascal on Women in Hollywood; Illinois Governor's War on Unions?; Tiger Woods Takes A Break

Aired February 12, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO: We are learning chilling new details about the day American sniper Chris Kyle was gunned down at a shooting range by a veteran he was trying to help. Yesterday, during opening statements in court, a defense attorney read a chilling text message that Kyle sent to his friend, Chad Littlefield, as the pair drove to a gun range with Eddie Ray Routh. Kyle wrote this about Routh, the defendant, quote, "this dude is straight up nuts." Chad Littlefield, who was also killed that day, responded back, quote, "he's right behind me. Watch my six." That's military slang for watch my back.

So let's talk more about this and the trial today. CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Texas.

Good morning, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

And one of the -- to continue on that theme that the defense attorneys have brought up, they were also questioned by Taya Kyle, who was the first witness, the wife of Chris Kyle, and talked about some of the phone conversations and exchanges she had while Chris Kyle was out at the gun range. And she detailed one conversation that she had where she says that Chris Kyle sounded irritated like there was something going on. He couldn't talk very much. She was clearly -- you know, she definitely sensed some sort of tension on the phone line as she spoke with him. But he ended the call and she just expected that they would talk about it once he returned from the gun range. But, of course, that wouldn't happen. And Taya Kyle, you know, offering extremely emotional testimony as she recounted the life of Chris Kyle, his work in the military, and his work that he says -- that she says inspired her husband so much in helping other veterans who were going through mental health issues and issues of PTSD and that's what, you know, some of the things that he loved to do and found great solace in after he had left the military. So very emotional testimony from her part yesterday as well, Carol.

COSTELLO: What's on tap for today, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Well, the prosecution will continue its case. They went through most of the day yesterday after Taya Kyle testified, a lot of the, you know, the people who were the first to discover the bodies of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. The prosecution will continue along those lines. A lot of the technical work of the testimony and of the evidence against Eddie Ray Routh, which is interesting because Eddie Ray Routh's attorneys, the man accused of killing Kyle and Littlefield, they are not contesting whether or not Eddie Ray Routh shot and killed these two men. They freely admitted that in opening statements yesterday. But nonetheless, prosecutors will continue laying out all of that evidence and the forensic evidence that they still need to do. So we'll see a lot of that here today.

Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, we'll check back. Ed Lavandera live from Texas this morning. Thank you.

As he seeks congressional approval to wage war on ISIS, President Obama is stressing that this will not be a repeat of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The resolution we've submitted today does not call for the deployment of U.S. ground combat forces to Iraq or Syria. It is not the authorization of another ground war like Afghanistan or Iraq. The 2,600 American troops in Iraq today largely serve on bases. As I've said before, I'm convinced that the United States should not get dragged back into another prolonged ground war in the Middle East. That's not in our national security interest and it's not necessary for us to defeat ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Those remarks come as we learn more about ISIS' expansion in the Middle East. The group moving from strongholds in Syria and Iraq to Libya, the Sinai peninsula and Yemen. All areas where ISIS has claimed responsibility for attacks or is gaining support. But with ISIS' growth and the White House's admission that language in the president's request is, quote, "intentionally vague," does that increase the possibility of a larger role for U.S. troops?

Joining me now is Kirk Lippold. He's the former commanding officer of the USS Cole. And you'll recall the USS Cole was a Navy destroyer that was attacked by suicide bombers tied to al Qaeda while refueling in the port of Yemen in October of 2000. The explosion blowing a hole in the hull of the ship killing 17 U.S. soldiers and injuring 39 others.

Welcome, sir.

KIRK LIPPOLD, FORMER COMMANDING OFFICER, USS COLE: Good morning, carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for coming back. I appreciate it.

The president says ISIS is on the defensive and we're going to defeat them. Is he right? LIPPOLD: I'm not sure at this point he is. And I think we're getting a

little bit of mixed messages from the administration. Recently you had his national security adviser, Susan Rice, saying that ISIS did not represent an existential threat. You have the president, clearly when he submitted his authorization for use of military force against ISIS, saying they are a threat. I'm a little bit concerned just what threat ISIS does represent to the United States.

I think there is one. I think it is growing. I'm not sure that we need an AUMF that the president wants to submit because, quite honestly, if he -- if ISIS is a threat and we are not going to have an enduring or large scale conflict, the president has the power under the Constitution as commander in chief to deploy military forces to eliminate that threat to the U.S. and our nation.

COSTELLO: I think what the president wants, though, he wants to show the world that we're all on the same page and that includes Congress. So isn't that helpful?

LIPPOLD: I think he knows that he has the backing of Congress any time if something represents a threat to the United States to take action as the chief executive to safeguard our nation. So I hope that the AUMF is not going to be used as a political tool or to give him top cover but, in fact, does, in fact, represent a move forward by him to ensure that he gets the necessary backing from Congress.

COSTELLO: Well, there is this school of thought, too, that you just can't let the president act in any way he wants. There has to be some oversight. And that should come from our elected officials.

LIPPOLD: Absolutely. But the -- one thing that the Congress always says they're going to do and hasn't really done it in effectiveness at all is the power of the purse. They can, in fact, cut off the funding if necessary. But I look at it -- if you look at a larger perspective, Carol, some of the strategic picture that's going on over there, the fight that you see going on right now really has to be done by the Arab countries themselves. The largest one obviously being Saudi Arabia. They're going to need to get engaged in this. Turkey is clearly going to play a role as a NATO ally given that ISIS is right on their border and a large number of the people that are supporting ISIS are going through their borders to and from both Europe and unfortunately back here to the United States.

But they're the ones that are going to have to be the lead. The United States, while we have use of military force, I think should play more of a support role and let the Arab Sunni nations take the lead in this fight because they're the ones that are going to have to eliminate this threat that has hijacked their religion that they want to safeguard and, in fact, do what's necessary to safeguard first the region, but larger the United States and our allies.

COSTELLO: Commander Lippold, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

LIPPOLD: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the biggest casualty of the Sony hack attack speaks out. What Amy Pascal has to say about leaked e-mails, bruised egos, and Hollywood's gender pay gap. Here's CNN's Brian Stelter.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: She says no one can imagine what it's like to be under the scrutiny she was under. But she has some lessons learned. And I'll tell you about them after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In Hollywood, where image is everything and truth is flexible, a fired studio boss is raising some eyebrows with some surprisingly candid comments on the Sony hack and its fallout. Just last week, the co-chair of Sony Pictures, Amy Pascal, stepped down.

Speaking before a women's group, she now concedes she was indeed fired but was largely unapologetic for the leaked e-mails that mocked everyone from President Obama to Angelina Jolie. Remember this chummy exchange with producer Scott Rudin. He blasted actress Jolie as, quote, "a minimally talented spoiled brat." That was followed just a couple of days later with this icy encounter between Pascal and Angelina Jolie.

But the leaked e-mails also revealed that women, like actress Jennifer Lawrence, were paid less than men. But here's what Pascal told the Women in the World Conference about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY PASCAL, FORMER CO-CHAIR, SONY PICTURES: I run a business. If people want to work for less money, I'll pay them less money. I don't call them up and go, can I give you some more, because that's not what you do when you run a business. The truth is that what women have to do is not work for less money. They have to walk away. People shouldn't be so grateful for jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter is our senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."

I was actually pretty surprised by her frankness.

STELTER: I was, too, but then again we saw it in the e-mails and it goes to show that she's the same person in her e-mails that she is on stage, I suppose. It is interesting that she said she was fired because Sony pretended like she was more graciously and agreeably leaving when it was announced last week. She's still going to be staying in business with the Sony studio developing films for them.

And that's really what's happened here, you know. They want her creative skills, but they don't think that she has the relationship skills with the a-listers like Angelina Jolie that she might need in the future. And by the way, my favorite quote from this on stage appearance, Carol, was when she said actors and actresses are bottomless pits of need. You've never seen anything like it. We all sort of think that's true and here she is kind of saying it as well.

COSTELLO: Well, she also added but they're magical and not that many people have that quality. So they may be deep pools of need, but that's part of what makes them magical, right? This desperate need for love?

STELTER: Yes, there might have been a little bit of sarcasm in her voice, I think.

COSTELLO: I don't know.

STELTER: I think what she was raising there about pay is really significant. Because that's one of the lasting effects of the Sony hack. There was a lot of damage done to the studio. It is still trying to recover. But seeing that data about how men and women are paid differently, even the upper echelons of Hollywood has had an impact and will I think in the years to come.

COSTELLO: Well, I do think she has a point that women are not as good of negotiators as they ought to be, right? That's been a problem for a long time with women, although I would submit that Jennifer Lawrence probably has a pretty powerful agent. And if I was Jennifer Lawrence, I would be going back to that person saying, what are you doing? Right?

STELTER: That was one point she made on stage, that I've been paying Jennifer Lawrence a lot more money since then, referring to parts of the e-mails that did leak out. Yes, in fact, this is the one on screen.

It says, "Here's the problem, I run a business. People want to work for less money; I pay them less," as you heard in that sound bite there.

She said that some of those e-mails that leaked out, she was horrified when they leaked out, but she said the experience was strangely freeing because she couldn't control what was going to happen. Once the e-mails started to come out, she basically didn't have any way to stop it as that hacking continued to happen. And she also said that everybody in Hollywood, at least, understood. Everybody in Hollywood, she said, understands how the business worked and so they weren't as shocked and appalled, perhaps, as people outside the business.

COSTELLO: Well, she is getting a $40 million golden parachute, right?

STELTER: She is.

COSTELLO: She's not hurting too badly.

STELTER: She'll be in business with them for a while. She's working on the future Spider-Man movies for the studio. S o I suppose being fired in Hollywood is not like being fired anywhere else in America.

COSTELLO: Well, at least not in most places. Brian Stelter, thanks so much.

STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM a fight over unions is being waged in Illinois. The governor there saying he has to tighten up his budget. And, well, some say he's declaring war on unions and the middle class to do that. Is he? Talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Illinois's new governor Bruce Rauner promised to streamline the government. And after a month in office, he's got his first target: unions and their fees. On Monday, the governor signed an executive order that would end a requirement that state workers pay union dues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BRUCE RAUNER (R), ILLINOIS: The government must never force its employees to fund activities they do not support. Government unions should not be allowed to influence the public officials they are lobbying and sitting across the bargaining table from through campaign donations and expenditures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The governor believes that fees paid by members are being used to fund political campaigns that some union workers may not support. But politics aside, critics have slammed the move as anti- worker and another step in the war against the middle class.

So let's talk about this. I'm joined by Roberta Lynch, she is the executive director of the Illinois Council of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Welcome.

ROBERTA LYNCH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFSCME COUNCIL: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for being here. Roberta, in an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal", it says the governor is, quote, "targeting the source of the state's fiscal and economic rot, the corrupt political bargain between state and public unions". What's your response?

LYNCH: Well, we think that is so wide of the mark. In Illinois, just like in states all across the country, there are hundreds of thousands of public service workers -- teachers, police officers, firefighters, highway workers out cleaning the snow probably as we speak in many, many places, caregivers for veterans, child protective workers -- all of these workers have chosen to be part of a union. And they, we believe, have every right to do that and they have every right to participate in the political process.

What this governor has done --

COSTELLO: But what about states that don't want to join the union? Should they be forced to pay union dues?

LYNCH: The governor is frankly presenting a very dishonest perspective on what's happening.

COSTELLO: How so?

LYNCH: State workers, other public workers, teachers, you do not have to join the union. There's a whole procedure set up, affirmed by the United States Supreme Court and by state law, anyone who objects to the political activities of the union does not have to join. They pay a fair share fee, which is calculated to take out the cost of any political contributions that the union makes.

Every member is notified of that right, every union represented employee, is notified of that right. Some take that path. The majority do not. Because the majority want to have a voice in the political process.

This governor was elected on millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, in contributions, $27 million of his own money. Now, how does the average working person participate in the political process? One of the ways -- not the only way -- but one of the ways that hundreds of thousands of people choose to do so is through their union so that they can have some opportunity to participate in a process, which is already --

COSTELLO: I will say this, that the state of Illinois is hurting disproportionately to its neighbors.

LYNCH: It is.

COSTELLO: For example, I just want to illustrate that to people. The Bureau of Labor Statistics points out that Illinois's neighbors have seen employment grow. 3.8 percent in Indiana, 8 percent in Iowa, 7.3 percent across the nation, but just 0.2 of 1percent in Illinois. "The Wall Street Journal" points out, "central to the mess is the rising bill for state pensions and salaries and the constant union demands for higher taxes to pay for them".

So isn't there some wiggle room between state unions and the governor?

LYNCH: First of all, let me say several things. One, "The Wall Street Journal" I would not consider an objective report in that regard. Moody's Analytics, which is much more objective, has said that Illinois still has a business climate that outshines all of its regional neighbors.

There's no doubt that Illinois has a fiscal problem. The fiscal problem is mainly the result of rolling back tax rates, which this governor did. But, nonetheless, the reality is that it does have a fiscal problem. State employee wages are not the problem. Illinois has a $4 billion, that's with a b, budget deficit. State employee wages only represent 6.7 percent of the total budget. They are a tiny fraction of what this state spends.

This governor ran for office, was elected to office, without ever telling the citizens of Illinois how he intended to address the budget problem. You could lay off every single public service worker in the state and you would not address that budget problem. He does not -- he's looking to distract from the real problems of our state.

Now, wiggle room, there's more than wiggle room. When he was elected, we said we wanted to work with him and we offered to work with him. And the way that he has responded is to ratchet up his efforts to drive down wages, to lower wages in the State of Illinois, to weaken the labor movement, which is committed and working to raise the wages of all workers.

COSTELLO: Well, he is also for raising the minimum wage in the State of Illinois, but that's a whole other ball of wax. But I have to leave it there. Through so much, Roberta Lynch, for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

LYNCH: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

First on CNN, Philadelphia will host the Democratic National Convention on July 2016. That's according to a source with knowledge of the selection process. The source who spoke on condition of anonymity said the official announcement would be made today. New York and Columbus, Ohio, were the other two cities vying for the convention. The Republican Party previously announced it will hold its presidential nominating convention in July of 2016 in Cleveland, Ohio.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Tiger Woods is taking a break from golf. He says he's not coming back until he's back to the old Tiger we're all used to. Andy Scholes is here. Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. He's taking the break basically because he's become one of the worst golfers on the PGA tour. He's played in 11 tournaments over the past year. He missed the cut in three of them and withdrew from another three with injuries. So Tiger has though enough is enough. He needs to put in a lot of practice and figure out what is wrong with his game.

Yesterday, Tiger posted this on his web site. He said, "My play and scores are not acceptable for tournament golf. Like I've said, I enter a tournament to compete at the highest level. And when I think I'm ready, I'll be back."

Now, Tiger is currently ranked 62nd in the world, which is his worst ranking since turning pro in 1996. He said he could return and play in the Honda Classic in two weeks, but he will only do so if he feels like he can win.

LeBron James and the Cavs facing LeBron's former mates, the Miami Heat, last night. Cleveland looking to stay red hot and this will help. Look how high LeBron James gets up on this passbreak alley-oop. He almost hits his head on the backboard, Carol. COSTELLO: Wow.

SCHOLES: Look at this. The Cavs, they would win this game easily, 113-93, their fourteenth win the last fifteen games. The Cavs are going to close out the first half of the season tonight. They take on the Bulls on TNT and Ernie, Shaq, and Charles, Kenny and the gang from Inside the NBA, they're going to kick off All-Star Weekend with the Inside the NBA live from New York. Should be a great weekend of festivities, Carol.

COSTELLO: Can't wait. Andy Scholes, thanks so muchh.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.