Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Obama Meets Merkel on Ukraine; Another Snowstorm Hits Northeast; Interview with Fmr. U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Steve Pifer

Aired February 9, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: War tears apart Ukraine. Just how deep will the U.S. get in? President Obama in a key meeting at the White House right now. In a few minutes he could announce new plans. We have it live.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS targets being bombarded in Iraq as coalition forces try to stop the group's march into Iraq and Syria. Now others are joining the fight.

BERMAN: It's really happening. A huge snowstorm smacks the northeast, nearly two feet on top of almost five feet in some places. It might never stop. Ever.

Hello, everyone. Happy Monday. I'm John Berman.

BOLDUAN: Hey, everybody, I'm Kate Bolduan. Thanks for joining us. A lot to get to, let's get to it.

The most intense and destructive fighting that Europe has seen in years is happening right now in Ukraine. The urgent question for the Obama administration is how deeply involved should the U.S. get?

BERMAN: At this moment, President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are meeting in the White House before a crucial news conference, which will be in a few more minutes when we could learn if the U.S. will give the Ukrainian government what it desperately wants, weapons to defend itself against pro-Russian rebels.

What you're looking at right here are pictures from just moments ago, the beginning of the meeting between President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, again, the White House considering giving weapons to Ukrainians. The German chancellor, though, thinks that's a bad idea.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely she thinks that's a bad idea. She flatly rejected that idea over the weekend for fear that Russian President Vladimir Putin might respond even strong, maybe even bringing Russian airpower into the fight. Merkel is still pushing for a diplomatic solution as we speak.

Leaders from France, Germany, Russia, and Ukraine are planning to meet Wednesday in Belarus to try to negotiate a deal to stop the fighting. But you will remember it's not Groundhog Day. They've done this before, and the last time, that last cease-fire deal, it didn't stick obviously.

BERMAN: Yeah. Our Nick Paton Walsh was in one of the eastern Ukrainian towns that has just been leveled by the fighting. Weapons fire was everywhere there. This will give you an idea of just how destructive this conflict has been.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That three- story building, two huge holes punched right through it. Clearly it was once a Ukrainian defensive position.

Around me you can hear too the outgoing fire of pro-Russian separatists that continue to try to advance toward a town of (inaudible). That is a key objective for them. They want much more territory in Donetsk after that.

But around me in this town, you can see really the signs of devastation. An armored personnel carrier over here, which the cameraman will pan toward slowly, but literally no building seems to have escaped the destruction here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Just amazing.

Nick is joining us now from Donetsk not far from where he filed that report.

Nick, the town where you were earlier looked absolutely abandoned, and when you see that destruction, lay out then from that perspective on the ground what's at stake in what's being talked about in Washington today.

WALSH: The amounts of territory in question are comparatively small, given the high geopolitical stakes, but this is about the separatists trying to get hold of all of the Donetsk region. Now they're fighting village by village, often very poor, rural areas where the infrastructure is being absolutely brutalized by violence.

But the end goal really here is about whether or not there is some sort of global mechanism at play which can slow the separatists down and get Vladimir Putin, their backer in the Kremlin, to reel in the assistance they're getting.

That's what this is all so vital, because I think the broader Western feeling is if they can't stop the violence here, if they can't make Moscow feel there's potentially some stiff penalty for them to pay, if they don't reel in their assistance to the separatists -- and it's pretty clear they're assisting them very heavily -- then that's a large geopolitical failing on Washington's part and potentially resets the balance globally in terms of what we might refer to as the 21st century order of things. So a lot of concern about what may happen in Minsk, but also on the ground here, the separatists are clear they have big territorial ambitions. They may try and realize more of them before people sit down to negotiate peace in Minsk.

BERMAN: It might get worse before it gets better there as both sides try for a land grab right before these crucial meetings.

Nick Paton Walsh live for us in Donetsk, thanks so much.

Right now, President Obama, as we said, is behind closed doors with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They are discussing, maybe in fact debating, what the best course of action is in Ukraine right now.

In just a few minutes they'll hold a crucial news conference where perhaps they will announce new plans and we will bring that to you live.

BOLDUAN: And the U.S. is now considering as part of this debate and discussion sending Ukraine lethal aid, but that threatening -- that is also threatening to drive a wedge between the two key allies.

Merkel over the weekend, she rejected the idea of sending weapons to Ukraine, saying that more weapons will not lead to progress, the progress that Ukraine needs, and she'll be pushing that stance you can expect to President Obama.

Let's get over to the White House. Michelle Kosinski is there for us.

So, Michelle, what are you hearing. We just saw the video of the meeting getting under way.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate. Right. Well, there's a lot to discuss. They're going to have about an hour- long discussion. Then we'll hear questions from reporters and see what they say during this press conference.

And that's going to tell us a lot about what unity is there and in what areas, because we've heard Secretary of State John Kerry over the weekend talk about the unity being strong between the U.S. and E.U. on coordinating the response against Russia, but at the same time we're having this divergence between the U.S. and Germany and other European leaders on whether it's even, you know, a consideration to send arms to Ukraine.

It looks like there are three areas really where we're likely to see the discussion and maybe something come out of it. One is what is the framework of this peace proposal that will be discussed on Wednesday.

And that's really kind of holding up everyone's reaction, not necessary to issue more sanctions now or to make any announcements now about arming Ukraine before we see what happens, if there is a peace deal that could be hammered out that would be acceptable to the U.S. as well, all the better.

The U.S. has been concerned about that deal. Potentially, would it give Ukraine back control of its borders and its integrity?

Also sanctions, will the U.S. and Germany unify on who will be sanctioned and how broad sanctions could be as well as further discussion on the arms issue.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Michelle Kosinski at the White House waiting for that meeting to wrap up and then the real work begins. Michelle will be in there and they'll be taking questions from reporters.

When the president and the chancellor go before cameras later this hour, we're going to bring you that. We're going to bring that to you, live. Wolf Blitzer will be leading our special coverage of that.

Also this morning, Secretary of State John Kerry says the U.S. coalition is "on the road" -- those were his words -- to destroying ISIS. He told "Meet the Press" over the weekend that coalition is more committed than after especially after ISIS burned to death Jordanian pilot Muath al-Kasasbeh.

The urgent question right now, is Kayla Mueller still alive? Her family has been pleading for ISIS to provide some kind of hard proof about her condition. It's been three days since the terror group claimed the 26-year-old was killed in a Jordanian air strike on a building in Syria, though many inside and outside the U.S. very are skeptical on this account.

BERMAN: There's a new development in the region as well. The United Arab Emirates is once again an active member of the coalition attacking ISIS. They had suspended their participation in air strikes out of concern for their pilots, but now UAE fighter jets will fly side by side with their Jordanian counterparts in the intensifying war there.

We'll get a report from Jordan as soon as we can. In the meantime, we have some more news. The snow, it will never stop.

BOLDUAN: Ever. Ever.

BERMAN: The northeast getting covered right now. The storm in Boston could bring nearly two more feet in some places. That's on top of the piles and piles already there.

BOLDUAN: And the real focus today -- to arm or not to arm Ukrainian -- the Ukrainian military, the debate behind closed doors happening right now between the U.S. and Germany.

We're waiting this hour to hear from President Obama and Chancellor Merkel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So Boston is a city under siege by snow. A new storm is hitting right now. When it's all said and done, it could dump up to two feet -- that's two new feet of snow -- in some places. BOLDUAN: That hurts to even hear. Absolutely.

Boston has already been buried in more than five feet of snow canceling school for another two days this week already. Same goes of course for cancellation of flights at Logan Airport today.

One of many headaches the city is facing, as you can see, is where to put all the snow. Sara Ganim is live in Boston for us.

So, Sara, how are they handling it? I can barely even see you, the piles are getting so high.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know. The snow is coming down harder right now, Kate, too. That's part of the visibility problem.

But look at these piles. This is the big question that residents have, is what are they going to do with all these snow? These piles, these ones are actually pretty mild. Some of them in places are taller than I am. You can see all along the street piles that go up midway up to street signs and light posts.

And then if you look down the sidewalks, which in the last few hours people have begun to plow, but the sidewalks and the streets are filled with these piles as well. They are creeping into the streets, making it much more narrow.

Now that causes a lot of safety problems, because a lot of people we saw walking to work in the streets, that's dangerous, especially when the streets are so narrow. And when you're driving, we can attest to this firsthand, you're coming around corners on the major roads and you cannot see what's around the corner or sometimes what's right next to you with these snow piles being so large.

Now, the mayor addressed this a little bit yesterday. He said part of the problem is that the budget is completely shattered at this point. They're still plowing, but we haven't seen anyone removing snow from the streets.

Residents here in the Beacon Hill area say they've never seen anything quite like this, not at least since the '70s, the massive blizzard that they had in the '70s that was record breaking. Since then they haven't seen piles this large, and they're just simply not being moved out of town.

Now this is a problem across the state of Massachusetts. The governor was talking about how so far this season some areas have seen up to 80 inches of snow, and this is still only the second week in February.

There are also reports in states like New Hampshire where they simply can't bring in enough salt fast enough for these back-to-back-to-back snowstorms.

Another issue that the mayor here talked about was private contractors coming in and trying to basically do things on their own and what they're doing is removing snow from the businesses that are paying them and then dumping it into alleys and to streets, and that's causing more problems for other people.

So just all around kind of a mess, John and Kate.

BERMAN: Yeah. And you can see underneath Sara, it says braces for six to ten inches of snow today. That's on top of what's already fallen over the last 24 hours.

I was there Saturday night and it was just starting to snow, so it's essentially been snowing from Saturday night until now, and they could get ten more inches today. That's on top of five feet they already have.

BOLDUAN: On top of that -- no, I didn't have anything --

BERMAN: Sara Ganim, we appreciate you being there. Stay strong.

BOLDUAN: Stay strong.

Coming up for us, the German chancellor making her case, President Obama then making his, Angela Merkel in Washington right now, trying to convince President Obama not to send lethal aid to the Ukrainian military despite desperate pleas from Ukraine for that help.

Have they found common ground? We're going to hear from them in just minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Right now, President Obama is debating whether or not to send weapons to Ukraine's military to help beat back pro-Russian separatist forces. German's Chancellor, though, says doing just that threatens to escalate what's already the worst fighting Europe has seen in decades.

BERMAN: We'll hear from the German Chancellor and President Obama in a news conference coming up in just a few minutes, a crucial news conference, where they could announce some new plans. Some U.S. lawmakers think there is no way around arming the Ukrainian military right now and Angela Merkel thinks that could force the U.S. to get more deeply involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R-AZ) ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Putin does not want a diplomatic solution. He wants to dominate Ukraine, as well as Russia's other neighbors. He may make tactical compromises here or there, but just as a prelude to further aggression. Mark my words.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: There is no military solution. The solution is a political, diplomatic one but President Putin's got to make the decision to take an off-ramp and we have to make it clear to him that we're absolutely committed to the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine no matter what.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Want to bring in Steven Pifer. He's the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, now a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution. Ambassador, thanks so much for being with us. We know where you stand on this. You support -- you have written a paper - supporting, providing defensive lethal weapons, anti-tank weapons, to the Ukrainian military. There's this meeting going on in the White House right now between the German Chancellor and the U.S. President. If they come out of this meeting with anything short of providing lethal weapons, in your mind, is it really no help at all to the effort there?

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I guess the first point I would make is that those of us who are advocating providing arms to Ukraine are doing it to support Chancellor Merkel's objective, which is to get to a negotiated political solution. Unfortunately, over the last seven or eight months, you have not seen the Russians negotiate seriously. They signed onto a cease-fire in Minsk back in September. They've done nothing to implement the cease-fire terms. The question is, can you raise the cost to the Russian military such that they then choose to pursue a negotiated solution? So we see these things coming together. We'll have to see the discussions between Chancellor Merkel and President Obama and see where they come out on this.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Everyone is waiting to hear exactly what comes out of that meeting, especially because it's before the peace meeting, where the peace talks are supposed to be happening this coming Wednesday in Minsk. Let me ask you this: you say that what you guys are proposing, and essentially what a lot of folks are supporting, is giving some arms to the Ukrainian military is working towards the Chancellor's point, would get to the chancellor's point. I find that interesting. Take a look.

Here's a little bit of what the Chancellor said over the weekend when she really flatly rejected the idea of arming Ukraine. She says, "The problem is I cannot imagine a situation in which an improved arming of the Ukrainian army leads President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily. This cannot be won militarily. That is the bitter truth. The international community must think of something else."

How are you both - You say you're both in the same point, but you're not, kind of.

PIFER: I think we differ on the means here. The problem right now is it appears that the Russians and the separatists do believe that there's a military solution and if one believes that the current Russian objective simply is to destabilize Ukraine, make life more difficult, the current situation works just fine. We need to find way to move the Russians away from that calculation. One tool is the economic sanctions that the United States and European Union applied and Chancellor Merkel has been very strong and helpful on that. We think, though, that by beginning to change the calculation on the battlefield, that also pushes Moscow toward negotiated settlement.

BERMAN: Ambassador, the European Union is considering new sanctions against Russia. What has the effect of sanctions been so far, do you think?

PIFER: I think there have been huge impacts on the Russian economy. Now, in conjunction with the fall in the price of oil. But the Russian government said that last year $150 billion in capital flight out of Russia. The Russian Minister of Economy has said that the Russian economy will contract this year, perhaps by as much as 5 percent. The Russians have expended about $110 billion in reserves, much of which was designed to support the ruble, but the ruble over the last eight months has lost about half of its value against the dollar. So the economic impact has been significant. It has not yet reached the point, however, where Mr. Putin is prepared to make the necessary political decision to go for a negotiated settlement. I think one of the most important messages that can come out of the meeting between President Obama and Chancellor Merkel is a very strong message to the Moscow that the sanctions will stay on. They will stay on until such time as the Russians really begin to negotiate seriously. My guess is Mr. Putin is hoping that the sanctions will begin to ease without him having to give anything seriously on eastern Ukraine and the West cannot let him have that impression.

BERMAN: Again, we're just minutes away from hearing from President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel. We could get some of the answers to the questions you pose. Lethal aid, will that be in play? New sanctions, will that be in play? Ambassador Steven Pifer, thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: The Ambassador lays out really well just really what's at stake in this meeting. They've got - There's an important meeting in Minsk later this week, but what President Obama and Chancellor Merkel say, are they together on this? These are key allies. Or is there a rift, as some are fearing, on this very important issue.?

BERMAN: Again, a few minutes from now we should know part of the answer to that question.

In the meantime, ISIS took control of Iraq's second largest city in June, but now is the coalition poised to take back this crucial city? What does that mean? How complicated will it be? Is the coalition ready for a ground war that could mean urban combat? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back. You're taking a look right now at live pictures from the White House in the East Room where reporters are getting ready and we're all getting ready to hear from President Obama, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They've been in a closed door meeting, of course, top of the agenda, talking about possibly the future and the fate of Ukraine. They are talking about fighting in Ukraine and how bad it's gotten and what (INAUDIBLE) allies are going to do about it. We're going to bring you that live news conference coming up in just minutes.

BERMAN: I don't think it's top of the agenda, I think it is the agenda to get to the issue of whether the United States will provide lethal aid, whether Europe will impose new sanctions. These questions will be answered in just minutes. In the meantime, new developments in the U.S.-led war against ISIS. A

major push is underway to take back the Iraqi city of Mosul from the terror group. Really in the first stages right now it seems. Coalition airstrikes pounding ISIS positions from the air, while on the ground, Kurdish forces are trying to surround the city to cutoff the ISIS supply lines.

BOLDUAN: The aim is to weaken the terror group ahead of an anticipated ground battle in Mosul, Iraq's second largest city.

Let's discuss this and more on the ISIS front. Bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, as well as CNN global affairs analyst and retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese.

Colonel, first to you. On the specific issue of what's going on in Mosul, lay out why this is so important in the fight against ISIS. And also, what is the state of play on the ground there?