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Violence Continues in Ukraine; Secretary of State Visits Ukraine; Vice President Biden Meeting with European Leaders in Brussels; German and French Leaders Meeting with Russia President Putin; Interview with State Department Spokesperson Marie Harf; Aaron Hernandez Murder Trial: Day 6

Aired February 6, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's time to provide Ukraine the ability to defend itself.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We cannot close our eyes to tanks that are crossing the border from Russia.

GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE, SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE, NATO: We will not be able to give the Ukrainian forces enough equipment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To get peace, you have to defend your country.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Jordanian F-16s took to the skies over Syria striking nearly 20 ISIS targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going after them wherever they are with everything that we have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not as bold as they once were.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jurors will get a close-up look at the crime scene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution wants to show where Hernandez planned this killing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are they going to the victim's home?

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ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It is Friday, February 6th, just after 8:00 in the east. There is renewed urgency this morning to stop the deadly Russian aggression in Ukraine. With concerns of a broader conflict growing, western nations are sending in the big guns to keep a depleted eastern Ukraine from becoming part of western Russia.

Vice President Biden meeting with European leaders in Brussels. And the leaders of Germany and France are set to meet with Vladimir Putin. Can he be slowed down after a year's worth of pressure has gone basically nowhere? We have this story covered from all angles beginning with CNN national security correspondent Jim Sciutto in Kiev.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris and Alisyn, we have the French and German leaders arriving in Moscow within the hour, their effort there they say, in the simplest terms, to end a war in Europe. The German chancellor talking about ending the horror on the ground in eastern Ukraine. Those are the stakes right now. The focus is on resurrecting a peace agreement negotiated in September.

The trouble is they're going to be sitting across the table from the man they accuse of breaking that agreement repeatedly, Russian President Vladimir Putin. There's been no doubt about who U.S. officials, including U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry as well, assigned the blame for this acute escalation in violence just in recent days, that is Russia, Russian forces, Russian heavy weapons.

Some minor progress today, a small ceasefire in some of the smaller towns that have been hit by this fighting allow civilians to flee. But the worry I with each of these smaller sees fires that the front line advances and there's left more land under, in effect, Russian control. Still no decisions yet on whether there will be a new round of economic sanctions against Russia, and also the key question, will the U.S. send military aid to Ukraine? That's still unresolved. Alisyn and Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Jim, thank you very much. Give us the latest when you have it.

Ukraine on one side, Russia on the other, just an hour from now a meeting with Vladimir Putin with so much in the balance. Let's get to Erin McLaughlin. She's in Moscow monitoring the situation. Who will be there and what is on the table?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Chris. German Chancellor Angela Merkel expected to arrive here in Moscow within the hour followed shortly thereafter by French President Francois Hollande. They'll be sitting down at the table with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The stated German-French goal is to achieve a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, to end the bloodshed and horrors form happening there.

Their goals, also to maintain Ukraine's territorial integrity, which is no small fete considering that Russia shows no signs of backing down. The defense ministry has announced a new military drove along the Russian/Ukrainian border. Those drills expected to last through February 14th.

Now, the Kremlin for its part has said that this visit on the part of France and Germany is a welcome one. It's hoping for a constructive conversation. But at the same time pointing to president Putin's own proposals that he has put forward in the days and weeks leading up to these talks. So it will be interesting to see if they are able to reach some sort of compromise. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Erin. Thank you very much. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: How soon could President Obama decide on arming Ukrainian rebels? Let's go to senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta with that part of the story. Jim, what do we know?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. All appearances are that the president is nearing a decision on that key question that Jim Sciutto mentioned about giving defensive military aid to the Ukrainians in their fight against those pro- Russian rebels. I can tell you that White house officials are saying that there is deepened engagement on this issue at the national security level inside this administration.

And one key thing I want to point out. You'll recall earlier this week when the defense secretary nominee Ash Carter testified that he's inclined to support that proposal for defensive military aid to Ukraine, I talked to a senior administration official last night who said that that position is not all that different from where the White House is right now. So that is an indication that the White House may be moving in that direction.

Also want to point out what this official told me, and that is the flurry of activity that is underway right now -- John Kerry in Ukraine yesterday, Vice President Biden in Brussels today, the president meeting with Angela Merkel the German chancellor on Monday. This official noting and I'm inferring from this official noting that there was a similar flurry of diplomatic activity prior to the U.S. slapping sanctions on Moscow. So interesting that all of that is happening now as this key questioning of arming or helping arm Ukraine with those defensive weapons is taking place.

And at the same time we may get more tea leaves from Susan Rice later on today. The national security advisor due to give a speech on the president's national security strategy. Keep in mind what Vice President Biden said earlier this morning. He said Ukraine is fighting for its survival and that Russia cannot be allowed to redraw the map of Europe. That's some pretty strong language coming from this administration this morning. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Jim, thanks so much for all of that. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jordan claiming it destroyed ISIS training centers and arms depots during a series of airstrikes in Syria. The Jordanians are warning the terror group this is just the beginning of their vengeance. Let's go to Amman, Jordan, and bring in Jomana Karadsheh. Jomana?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, the Jordanians are naming this mission after the fallen pilot. They say that they have carried out a multitude of airstrikes on undisclosed locations in Syria. The targets that were struck and they say they destroyed include training camps and ammunition and weapons storage facilities. We're hearing that at least 10 militants were killed in these airstrikes according to the Syrian observatory for human rights and ISIS did post photos of the destruction.

Now, we were in the hometown of the pilot when news broke that Jordan has begun this mission that as officials here are describing it, they are upping the ante. And at that point we saw fighter jets flying at low altitude over the town in what seemed to be a tribute to a fallen colleague. And the father of the pilot telling us that the king of Jordan, King Abdullah, promised him that they are going to continue to bombard ISIS strong holds until they demolish the group.

CAMEROTA: Jomana, thanks so much for all of that background.

We want to bring in now deputy spokesperson for the state department Marie Harf. Good morning, Marie.

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with what's going on in Europe. Moments ago Vice President Biden spoke out. He spoke out against what Vladimir Putin has been doing in Ukraine. We have just a little snippet of what he said to other world leaders. Listen to this.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Russia cannot be allowed to redraw the map of Europe.

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CAMEROTA: Russia cannot be allowed to redraw the map of Europe, yet it feels as though that's what they're doing. What is the U.S.'s position on what's happening with Vladimir Putin now?

HARF: Well, Alisyn, we have been increasingly concerned over the past days and weeks with the real uptick in violence in Ukraine, violence that's directed by the Russians. You know, there's been a lot of talk about diplomatic proposals on the table, which ones are good, which ones aren't as good. But the question here isn't whether there's a diplomatic proposal on the table. The problem is whether President Putin is willing to take any of them. And if he doesn't, if he continues escalating, I think you'll see from us and our European partners an increasing cost to him. And he really has a choice here to make here, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: But is the U.S. standing by, Marie, while Russia redraws the map of the world? He's already annexed Crimea. It seems as though that's underway.

HARF: Well, not at all. We have stood with the Ukrainians. We've stood with our other partners in Europe to impose increasing costs on President Putin. We have put sanctions in place that have had a very significant impact on their economy, and we are actively considering what more we can do going forward with the Ukrainians. Secretary Kerry was just there talking with them exactly about this issue. CAMEROTA: Well, one more thing that the U.S. could do is provide

lethal aid to the rebels. We just had Congressman Jim Himes from Connecticut on NEW DAY this morning. He reminded us Congress passed a resolution to do just that in 2014 but nothing has been done by the White House. What's the holdup?

HARF: Well, right now we're actively looking at what more we can do, what other kinds of assistance might make sense. Our goal all along here has been de-escalation, right. We want to get weapons out of eastern Ukraine, not put more in there. But we have been concerned over the past days and weeks about the escalating violence there and we are very supportive of the Ukrainians. So right now we're having those conversations about what else we might do.

CAMEROTA: And do you think that that will happen? Will the White House approve lethal aid for the rebels?

HARF: Well, I think I'm probably not in the business of guessing what policy outcomes will be from internal discussions, but I will say we are looking at every single way we can help the Ukrainians more. We're also very focused, of course, here on the diplomatic route. Obviously Secretary Kerry and our partners have given President Putin a diplomatic off ramp. He hasn't taken it yet. And if he continues not to take it there will be additional costs.

CAMEROTA: OK, speaking of providing weapons where needed, let's talk about the fight against ISIS and what's going on with Jordan. Jordan says that they are upping the ante against ISIS. They say that they're willing to do whatever it takes to wipe out ISIS. Is it time to give the Jordanians more weapons to do that?

HARF: Well, absolutely. Jordan has shown incredible resolve in the face of this brutal murder of their pilot, and we have one of the largest security assistance relationships with Jordan. Just this week Secretary Kerry and Foreign Minister Judeh signed a new MOU increasing that assistance, increasing that relationship. So we are absolutely expediting any requests they have for military assistance and we're going to keep working with them on the shared fight together. But absolutely, Alisyn, this is something we're committed to.

CAMEROTA: That's good to hear because we had Senator John McCain on NEW DAY earlier this week where he says that the U.S. State Department itself has been an impediment to getting weapons for Jordan. Here is what the senator had to say.

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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: There's a huge bureaucratic bottleneck in the State Department. There's problems with getting permission for certain types of weapons which has been very frustrating to the Jordanians.

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CAMEROTA: So Marie, he says there's been a huge bureaucratic bottleneck in getting these weapons. What's your response? HARF: Well, look, Alisyn, nothing could be further from the truth.

The truth is that the State Department working with our partners has brought together over 60 countries including Jordan to fight ISIL. We have expedited weapons and security assistance to countries like Jordan, to the Iraqis, to others to fight this threat. So we have been full speed ahead in terms of helping our partners get the arms and the weapons they need. We've been full speed ahead in standing by our partners as they've taken the fight directly to ISIL. And that's what we're going to keep doing, and we'll do it quickly as we can.

CAMEROTA: The senator says the Jordanians have been frustrated by this bureaucracy. Are you saying this morning that the Jordanians have everything that they've asked for?

HARF: I don't think either of us should speak for the Jordanians. They can speak for themselves. But what we hear in our conversations with the king, with the foreign minister, with other Jordanian partners is that we have an incredibly close relationship. Just this week, again, signing a new MOU to even increase that more. So we work very closely together and that's going to continue.

CAMEROTA: Marie Harf, we appreciate you coming on NEW DAY. Thanks so much for the information.

HARF: Happy to be here.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, so on all of this keep an eye out on this happening today. National Security Adviser Susan Rice this afternoon will unveil the president's security strategy, specifically outlining his foreign policy and key action points. CNN has learned the overall strategy does go beyond force, focusing heavily on diplomacy and coalition building. Topics also on the table, the obvious, the near war in Ukraine motivated by Russia, and the battle against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Remember, there is an authorization of force sitting with Congress against ISIS but no plan from the White House attached yet.

PEREIRA: Congress is moving to impose new sanctions against North Korea. Legislation introduced in the House would dish out stiff punishments for foreign nations doing business with Pyongyang, a measure that would mostly impact China. The bill has bipartisan support and is widely seen as retaliation for the North's alleged cyber-attack against Sony pictures.

CAMEROTA: The U.S. reportedly pressing Cuba to accelerate the process of restoring diplomatic ties. Reuters reports the Obama administration wants to open the embassy in Havana by April. Cuba's demand that it be removed from the list of terrorist states is a major sticking point. U.S. and Cuban negotiators expected to meet later this month or in March for a second round of talks on renewing relations.

PEREIRA: So many pieces and parts to it all, right? Not just simple, OK, handshake. So many pieces and parts. CUOMO: Never is, because if you look at what's going on with the

Middle East with who allies are, whom do you choose to say you're OK? Cuba, everybody wants to open it up. It seems great. You want to go there. But there are so many groups of people there that have had so much wrong done to them for so long, if that's not taken care of, how do you give more?

CAMEROTA: The devil is in the details, as is true of so much. We'll stay on that for you.

CUOMO: All right, so talking about devil in the details, nowhere is that more true than in a murder trial. And the case of Aaron Hernandez, it's just going on in ways you couldn't have expected. The jury is going to get to see key locations firsthand, including the spot where Odin Lloyd was found. That's a rare field trip, the latest rare occurrence, by the way. We have a good look inside this trial and what is key at that scene.

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CUOMO: Unusual but could be very instructive and important. A field trip is on the docket today for the jury in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. You know him, the one-time New England Patriot now murder suspect.

The panel is going to tour the crime scene where Odin Lloyd was found, his home and the home of Aaron Hernandez.

This follows a week of real drama in court, including testimony from dueling sisters. Literally, not only they're on opposite sides of the case, but they're talking about each other, a judge scolding a victim's mother about being emotional. What is going on here?

We got people who can tell us. Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Joey Jackson, HLN legal analyst.

Lady and gentleman, let's start with the field trip. I know it happens, but it's unusual, especially with this many venues. A reminder of the chronology.

Joey, you're next to me. What pops out to you here about what they need to see there in order to make the case?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, think about it this way, Chris. Generally speaking in a courtroom, right, what you're doing is you're taking the jury through the testimony in a courtroom. You're taking them to the scene.

Interestingly enough, what's happening here is they're physically actually taking them to the scene. So, they'll see a number of things, and obviously this is a circumstantial case on the part of the prosecution. So, in general terms, let's talk about who's affected by what.

I think the prosecutor's going to play big, the secluded area, because remember, the Nissan enters that secluded area and that, of course, is that industrial park where the body is found.

But then let's jump forward. Where else are they going to go, Chris? They're going to go to Aaron Hernandez home and when you live in such a beautiful home in a beautiful environment, $40 million, you have the contract, a beautiful daughter, why you tell me would you do something like this to your good friend? And so, that's what's going play out here.

CUOMO: Mel, can you mitigate? What do you feel they won't see there or, you know, why this shouldn't be done? The judge had to say it was OK.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, the judge has got a lot of latitude in making this. Let me tell you what they're going to see a lot of, Chris. A lot of this -- there's about three feet of snow on the ground at the scene.

CUOMO: Good point.

ROBBINS: And the shooting took place in June.

I think that this is very helpful for the prosecution because what they want to do, Chris, is they want to show just how close this industrial park is to Aaron Hernandez's house. And they've got a time line. They're going to shrink this down.

And so, it's one thing to do what Joey and I do in a courtroom which is put the jury at the scene and describe how close it is. It's another thing, Chris and Joey, take them there and drive them to the house. And even in the winter, even though there's snow on the ground, that jury is going to feel how short that distance is which they're going to bring into the courtroom with them when they weigh the testimony and the physical evidence, Chris.

CUOMO: Right. But, you know, this works both ways, this game.

JACKSON: Sure does.

CUOMO: Right. But, you know, this works both ways this game. You know, the defense counsel is going to say, by the way, where are those sneakers that they say fit that show print? What does it mean there was a joint or roach with a bit of a joint with his DNA on them, maybe somebody else. This is going to work both ways. But the judge allowing them to go there, that's relevant.

So, now, did police mishandle evidence? Joey, if you were going to say yes, what evidence would that be and why?

JACKSON: All right. So, listen, depending what side you're on, prosecution is going to say, we handle evidence properly and appropriately. Defense, of course, is going to say, well, wait a second, did you really do that?

Let's talk about why. You collected shell casings and you put two shell casings into one bag, seriously. There were measurements of various items found around the body, a towel, a baseball cap, the shell casings we talked about, and the marijuana cigarette and you didn't measure it, you didn't take the time to mark the time that you collected the evidence and photograph when you were taking that evidence.

And in addition to that, what about the baker's dozen of particular detectives and everybody else who was at the crime scene. There were a couple of dozen people. You want to talk about tire tracks and footprints. Those weren't my guys. They were contaminated with all of your detective's information.

And so, that is going to play big for the defense.

CUOMO: So, Joey counters your physical play of snow with smoke. Do you believe that this smoke will turn into fire in terms of getting some evidence kicked out?

ROBBINS: You know, I don't think so. When you're a defense attorney in a circumstantial evidence case which this is, we don't have a videotape of the shooting. And, in fact, we don't have one of the co- defendants turning yet and testifying against Hernandez, so as a defense attorney you make a mountain out of a mole hill and every one of these things are tiny. You may have a baker's dozen there trying to bake a cake, but it doesn't fully bake on the defense side, Chris.

CUOMO: Right.

ROBBINS: Because what the prosecution's going to say, look, yes, it may have been pouring rain out, we may have put two casings in one baggy, but DNA doesn't jump from one casing to another. We've got a fingerprint. We've got his DNA on a casing.

CUOMO: Right.

ROBBINS: And so, they're going to try to tell you that a baggy matters and a tape measure matters but, folks, we've got DNA. Their case is so bad that that's why they're focusing on these things that do not matter.

JACKSON: Very well said, Mel. The only point to that though is if you're sloppy. If you're mixing up evidence, if you're not measuring and you're not particular and you're not appropriate about everything you're doing, what else did you mess up?

CUOMO: Falsus in uno, falsus in toto, the Latin thing they teach you in law school. You make one mistake, one lie, we can assume it's happened all the way through.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

CUOMO: All right. So, now, the most intriguing part here, all right? You've got sisters on different sides of this case. One the fiance of Aaron Hernandez, the other one, the friend/girlfriend of Odin Lloyd. The more even more intriguing, Joey, is that the sister connected to Odin Lloyd said that her sister started acting funny after this certain time frame when this may have happened. Her own sister.

JACKSON: That's big.

CUOMO: Very rare.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Now, we have Shayanna, that's the Aaron Hernandez fiancee. And, of course, this is Odin Lloyd's girlfriend.

Now, what was compelling about the testimony, you mentioned one thing that she acts acting weird. We don't have here, Chris, we don't have the murder weapon. Why don't we have it? Because Shaneah, she says that her sister went downstairs, took a bag, and left, asked to borrow her car. She had this bag in her hand.

Now, we don't know what's in the bag. What's the inference? It was the gun --

CUOMO: Right.

JACKSON: -- that the fiancee took out the house and hid, and that's why the police don't have it.

CUOMO: Right. But, Mel, you know what you have, you got one sister talking about another one. How persuasive could that be to a jury?

ROBBINS: You know, it might be persuasive when you take the totality of circumstances and you put into the mix the DNA at the scene, you put into the mix the way that the sister behaved, you put into the mix everything.

You know, on its own does it mean anything that the sister was acting cagey, that the sister upon hearing, my gosh, your soon-to-be husband was just killed, that's terrible. Let me run into the basement and act weird. Let me borrow your car with a bag and go away.

No sister that's innocent of something would act that way. It doesn't prove that she did anything but, again, it's another piece of evidence that we take and we put on the scale as the jury weighs everything and has them say, huh, something's not right here.

So, when I hear the defense attorney tell me that that videotape that shows Aaron Hernandez holding clearly a gun, might be an iPad or remote, that's ridiculous. Don't insult my intelligence and don't insult my intelligence when you're sitting here saying that the sister wasn't in on it -- Chris.

CUOMO: Well, I got to tell you something -- I think you guys are too much lawyer and not enough just family member. Maybe it's because I'm an Italian-American. But you see family going at it with these kinds of stakes involved, that's going to wash something onto the jury.

I also put a picture on the judge. We're going to give her honor a break today, but that move with the mother saying, don't cry too much about your dead child, that was unusual. Having this field trip, unusual. We're going to keep an eye on whether this trial is being conducted the right way.

Joey Jackson, Mel Robbins, thank you very much for helping us through it.

JACKSON: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

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