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Jeb Bush as Republican Candidate; U.S. Surgeon General Talks about Measles Outbreak; New Data Revealed on TransAsia Airplane Crash

Aired February 5, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Jeb Bush had his big debut yesterday. He decided not to go to Iowa, not to go to New Hampshire. His first big speech as a presidential candidate -- yes, he's running even though he hasn't made that last step yet -- was to the Detroit Economic Club.

With me this morning to share their reporting and their insights, Nia- Malika Henderson of "The Washington Post", Olivier Knox of Yahoo News.

Let's listen to Jeb Bush. He started off by saying I want to address income inequality. The American Dream is missing for a lot of families. And he said if you think conservatives don't care about urban America, you're wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I know some in the media think conservatives don't care about the cities, but they're wrong. We believe that every American in every community has the right to pursue happiness. They have the right to rise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The right to rise is his theme, reform conservatism. George W. Bush ran on compassionate conservatism. George H.W. Bush said he wanted a kinder, gentler nation.

What is Jeb Bush up to hear in his first -- this was -- he laid out a lot of problems, he did not provide a lot of solutions.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, THE WASHINGTON POST: He said those are to come, at one point. Whether or not they will be much different than things we've already heard in terms of addressing poverty. We'll have to see. One of the interesting things about this, he's obviously going to the city, it's Detroit, it's a city that obviously going through problems, bankruptcy, sort of rebounding. At this point it is a way to say listen, we care about urban people. I.E. black and brown people. In terms of the whole idea of poverty, it might have been better to actually go to the suburbs, because that's where poverty is really growing at a clip. Not seen really in the cities. But I think the backdrop here in saying we want to expand the party was really the message from this speech. KING: And he's trying to make the point that he wants to be

different. Obviously, look, let's take him at his word. That he cares about the cities and we'll wait for the solutions and the proposals. The politics of this also are Republican -- with the presidency if you don't get more -- Look at the last two elections, one of the things, Olivier, he knows he has to deal with came up in the Q&A. His name happens to be Bush. Our last two Republican presidents were named Bush, that was his brother and his father and some people think, you know, enough, move on. Here's Jeb Bush's answer to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Well, I know it's an interesting challenge for me. One that I have, you know, if I have any degree of self-awareness, this would be the place where it might want to be applied. And so if I was to go beyond the consideration of running, I would have to deal with this and turn this fact into an opportunity. To share who I am. To connect on a human level with people. So people begin to -- and offer ideas that are important to people. So that when they think of me, they think that I'm on their side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: To boil that down, he would have to earn it.

OLIVIER KNOX, YAHOO NEWS: Yeah, and it's really interesting when you listen to the speech, the Q&A, and if you read the exclusive interview that our friend Ron Fournier just put up this morning in the "National Journal." You see him trying to ride two currents, one is deep public unhappiness with wage growth and the other is deep public unhappiness with the two political parties. And so, he's trying to stake out this turf, where he says I understand that you're suffering, and you are not getting enough money, you are not getting your wages aren't growing, on the other hand, you don't think there are two parties have the solution. Maybe I can ride the sort of middle ground here. Or I understand the problem and I'm not beholden to the parties.

KING: And he says both parties -- he says the government, whether it's federal government or a lot of state governments are built for yesterday's economy. He thinks it's time to rip it up and do things new, saying a lot of things that are interesting. We'll see if he can -- if he can put some meat on the bones. Here is one thing he said to Ron Fournier in the "National Journal" interview. That I get what he is trying to say, that it could be problems for him in the primaries. 13,174 government-run school systems is not the appropriate model of governance for this incredibly diverse group of kids who comprise the next generation of Americans. He is talking about economic competitiveness. But he also was on the record supporting common core. Now, I want to see exactly what he means by that -- you know, spell it out.

But if you're a grassroots Republican, and you think education decisions should be made by parents, then teachers, then local school boards, not Washington, then the governor, then the mayor, you're going to say what's he talking about there, right?

HENDERSON: This is going to be a big issue. This is I think why he's doing so poorly in Iowa. This is why Huckabee had to go to Iowa and say listen, I am not for common core any more. I was for it before, I'm against it. So, this is a really big issue for him. I think, you know, where does he, in what areas is he going to be able to really connect with that base, it's not going to be on immigration reform. It's not going to be on common core. So, he is- is it going to be on foreign policy? But will that, you know, have too many shades of Bush if he's too hawkish.

KING: Or can he be a big enough leader to say stop, think again. We have to think again in this economy. And I've rethought so on my positions, I need you to rethink yours. We'll see if he can be persuasive as a candidate. I've raised that point because here are some old tape, a liberal group found this tape not that long ago, 2013. Jeb Bush was talking about the problems in Detroit. And he said one way you could repopulate Detroit would be with immigrants. And he also talked about the Dreamers, they are the children of undocumented adults who came across the border. Jeb Bush said you can't blame the children, not did he say you can't blame the children for being here illegally, he says they deserve citizenship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH: If your children always have to pay the price for adults' decisions they make. How fair is that? So for people that have no country to go back to, which are many of the Dreamers, it's ridiculous to think that there shouldn't be some accelerated path to citizenship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Again this is what gets fascinating. Can he change his party or win enough of his party to win the nomination when you're not only that we should think about this, that maybe, you know, these children were young, they had nothing to do with it, somebody carried them across the border. He's not just saying it like that. He says it is ridiculous to think there shouldn't be some accelerated path to citizenship.

KNOX: Yeah, I mean this is going to be an ongoing dialogue. Nia mentioned that he has to connect with the base somehow. But he's not going to do it via immigration. I think this is just the latest in a long series of statements he's made on immigration that put him at odds with the base of the party, particularly in places like Iowa and South Carolina. It's going to be really fascinating. I love that this came from a democratically-leaning group as an attack when in fact it reflect as fairly big constituency inside the Democratic Party.

KING: Maybe they're attacking him because they don't want him as a nominee? Maybe they're attacking him -- they are attacking him now ...

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: That's exactly true.

KING: Because they think he's a stronger candidate than some of the others. So, you write this morning, I have the printout here, let's address this in closing, the lame stream media's fascination with Rand Paul might be coming to an end. Rand Paul, you know, he stepped in on vaccines and had to clean it up, saying he had heard of these mental disorders. There is no scientific evidence. He got rock 'em sock 'em robots on O'Reilly the other night. A lot of people think Republicans go on Fox because they'll get a friendly reception. He and O'Reilly had a good little battle there. What's going on here?

HENDERSON: Well, you know, I think he's having to figure out how to make the transition from what "Time" magazine calls, in which the most interesting man in politics to someone who is seen as a presidential candidate, I think the interesting part of him at this point is becoming a bit of a liability. Especially as you see somebody like Marco Rubio, keeping his head down and emerging as a serious figure, the kind of chamber of commerce Republicans that Rand Paul also has courted. Somebody like Marco Rubio, I think, is besting him. But this is then his media strategy, to be out there all the time and it's causing him some problems.

KING: He's been so accessible for so long. It is helped him a great deal. But maybe we've reached the tipping point.

KNOX: Or we've changed the conversation to something where he is less short footed, you know, one of the big appeals of Rand Paul is on government surveillance. It's on overreach overseas. And as long as those are going to stay in the conversation going into 2016 I think he's going to get a lot of attention from reporters. I don't think that the lame stream media is done with it.

KING: And the closer you get, it sounds a little funny, because the Iowa caucus is still a year away, but the closer you get to actually presidential voting, we treat him more like a presidential candidate. Guess what? The questions get tougher. Hopefully we do our job a little better, he's going to have to do his job a little better.

That's part of the process, Alisyn. We learned a lot from these candidates as we go through all these things and Rand Paul is in a little bit of a rut right now, but it's early. I've seen a lot of candidates, including candidates who have went on to be president, go through ruts, we'll see what happens.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: There you go. You're so right, John. And, of course, we're going to be talking about what you all just touched on, and that's the measles comeback. So stick around for that because more than 100 cases of measles now across the U.S. What does the surgeon general say about this outbreak? Chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta sits down with him for his first in-depth interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: There are more than 100 cases of measles across the country. 99 cases alone in California. In his first in-depth interview as surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy addressed the growing outbreak with our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We know the numbers now, the number of people who have the infection, the number of states that have been involved. How do you quantify how bad this is from a public health standpoint? I mean are we on the precipice of this potentially getting much, much worse? Given how contagious this is?

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Well, measles is highly contagious, in fact if not the most contagious virus that we know of. You know, as you know, if you are not vaccinated, and you are exposed to measles you have a 90 percent chance of getting it. Which is that extremely infectious. The flip side is that if you are vaccinated, then your chance of getting it is only about, you know, it's much, much lower. I mean you get a 97 percent protection rate if you get both doses of the vaccine. So that's very good. But I think right now we are at a critical tipping point. Where you know, if we need to closely monitor the number of cases that we have. We need to continue to do contact tracing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Atlanta. It's interesting, Sanjay, getting to see the two of you sit down together, his first major TV interview. He is one of the young -- he is the youngest surgeon general. He is the first of Indian descent and he's taking on this job while this measles outbreak and controversy is going on. Did he address that, about taking the job on right at this time?

GUPTA: Yeah, he did. And remember, he was nominated in November of 2013. It wasn't confirmed until just December of 2014. Just recently, so he just started. This is, you know, obviously was ongoing. Even as he was getting confirmed. So yes, he is saying he's going on a listening tour around the country trying to understand what's happening in the states. But he hadn't done much in the way of interviews. I asked him why now? You know, I think it's just because he just wants to sort of travel around for a little bit and understand what's happening out there, first.

PEREIRA: Well, if he's going on a listening tour, he doesn't have to listen too closely, because the sound is resounding there. There are people yelling from the rooftops about this vaccination debate. From a public health prospective, did he address the problem when people choose not to? Did he talk about that specifically?

GUPTA: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. And I give him credit for one thing, that, you know, he's not being equivocal on this, he's not wavering, sort of giving both sides. You know, he's very strongly wording the fact that if you drop below a certain vaccination rate in the country, then you start putting the average person more at risk. So, you know, babies, for example, Michaela, they can't get vaccinated. People ... PEREIRA: Right.

GUPTA: Who are -- have cancer, who are undergoing chemotherapy can't get vaccinated. So, there's going to be a certain percentage of the country that's always at risk. What they count on is what is known as herd immunity, meaning having enough of a herd of people around them to protect them. Until they can be vaccinated. Until they recover, until the child grows old enough. If you don't have herd immunity, all of a sudden you start to see what is known as sporadic cases of measles popping up and that's how something starts to become endemic again. That's how something starts to spread. Right now we're about 91.9 percent vaccination in this country. If we drop below 90, that's when that could start to happen.

PEREIRA: Well, you talk about the herd, the herd is not just here in our country. The herd extends, because we know our borders are open. And you look around the rest of the world. Did you guys talk about that? The immunization rates in other countries?

GUPTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: Because there's difference there. In fact, some countries have better rates of immunization than we do here in the United States.

GUPTA: Michaela, did you know that Russia has better immunization rates ...

PEREIRA: I didn't know.

GUPTA: China does. Zimbabwe. Iran. I mean the list goes on and on. Those are countries that are doing better than the United States when it comes to vaccinating against measles at a year of age. I asked the surgeon general about that. Let's listen to his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURTHY: Part of the challenge that we have had is in part we're a victim of our own success. Because we were able to eradicate diseases like polio, because we were able to eliminate measles in the United States. Many people have not seen these diseases. And they, they become, they become less of a threat. They become more theoretical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: What he's basically saying is that we're not slapped in the face with seeing these diseases on a regular basis. And all of these other countries, they see measles, they see mumps on a regular basis and they say, we don't want that. So that's why vaccination rates are much higher. We're just not -- we're not as acutely aware of the risk here.

PEREIRA: Right. I want to read, you wrote incredible and strongly worded op-ed for cnn.com. I want to read your words to you and for the rest of our viewers. Here's what you say, that you are 100 times more likely to be struck by lightning than to have a serious allergic reaction to the vaccine that protects you against measles is not a matter of opinion. You go on to say "facts should matter and science should win. But after 13 years as a medical reporter I know it's not that simple." There's a lot of emotion in this debate, Sanjay. Not often based on scientific fact.

GUPTA: I think people get lured into the emotional part of the debate and it's easy to see why. I mean it's children and it's autism.

PEREIRA: Sure.

GUPTA: I mean you cannot think of two more emotionally evocative things anywhere than those two topics. But that doesn't, you know, that doesn't change the science. You know and I think it's people are uncomfortable not knowing what causes autism. So we want to fill the void. We are not comfortable with voids, we want to fill the void with anything. And that's where a lot of people point is to vaccines. You know, you can understand that part of the sentiment. But I think that people who don't forcefully say, I get that, but that doesn't change the science. People who are not saying that are not doing a service to, because this is dangerous. People could die from not getting vaccinated. And this is totally preventable thing. There's so many problems in the world we don't know how to prevent. We don't know how to address, we don't know how to tackle ...

PEREIRA: This is one that ...

GUPTA: This one we can fix.

PEREIRA: Right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta from Atlanta, thank you so much. Go to cnn.com, you can read the article in full. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Mick. Two deadly crashes, one by air, one by rail. The key to both is what caused them. And we have the latest on both investigations. Hear what a former head of the NTSB has to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Critical developments in two deadly transportation accidents. One airplane, one railroad. We begin with the crash of that TransAsia plane in Taiwan caught on this heroine videotape. We want to bring in now Deborah Hersman. She's the former NTSB chairman and president of the National Safety Council.

Mrs. Hersman, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

DEBORAH HERSMAN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with the airplane crash. There's some developments this morning that I would imagine will help investigators figure out what happened. There is a mayday call that came in from the pilots. Let me play you this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayday, mayday, engine flameout. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It's very short. But you hear him say mayday, mayday, engine flameout. What does that mean?

HERSMAN: So, they're talking here about potentially the complete loss of an engine, and they're having to compensate for that in the cockpit, but this is only a portion or a fragment of the conversation that's probably taking place. Once they are able to read out that cockpit voice recorder, they're actually going to have a lot more information and a full picture about what was being communicated inside the cockpit between the pilots, not just outgoing to air traffic control.

CAMEROTA: Can a plane ever recover from an engine flameout?

HERSMAN: You know, pilots are trained to deal with emergency situations, including engine flameouts. One of the challenges that you have certainly in an environment where you're in and around an airport on takeoff, on landing is that you're low and that you're slow. You may not have the air speed and you may not have the altitude to make the recovery that you need to make, but pilots are trained. And so we want to make sure that we understand exactly what happened mechanically here, but also what the operators understood and what procedures and steps they took, if they were effective or ineffective and understand why.

CAMEROTA: So with this crash, there happens to be, as you know, this stunning video of the plane going down. How will investigators dissect every frame of this video to get more clues?

HERSMAN: I will tell you that the advent of technology, particularly video or image technology, is incredibly helpful to investigators. We used it at the NTSB in accident after accident, even things like using a security camera to identify frame by frame the collapse of the interstate bridge in Minneapolis as it fell. That information can corroborate the physical evidence on scene and the other information that's gathered to really paint a picture and, again, it allows people to see what's happening and you can bring in other data to support the investigation.

CAMEROTA: This plane was an ATR 72. That's the model. That model was also involved in another TransAsia crash. Is there a problem with that model of plane?

HERSMAN: You know, I think what's important is to understand what happened in each of these crashes involving this carrier with this aircraft. It's not unusual for a carrier to have multiple aircraft in their fleet of a certain type. In fact, that makes a lot of sense. And so that means you train your pilots on that type of aircraft. You maintain that type of aircraft and you actually get very good at it, and so it is important to understand what happened in each of those events and identify if there are any common threads.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the deadly railroad crash here in Metro- North. Metro-North is the big commuter system that takes 300,000 commuters in and out of New York City every day. And as you know, there were six people killed this week when it hit a stalled SUV on the track. What do you glean from the details you know thus far?

HERSMAN: You know, it's still early in the investigation. I think everyone needs to really understand what happened, how that driver ended up on the tracks. It's so important to stay clear of those tracks and to make sure that all of the devices are working, whether it's the great crossing arms, this traffic signals that help to cue the traffic up. But, again, each driver also has a responsibility to pay attention to what's going on. Do not enter that area where the tracks are unless you know that you can clear it. That's really important. 2,000 vehicle to train crashes occur every year resulting in 250 fatalities. We saw the tragic consequences of that this week.

CAMEROTA: Gosh, looking at that aftermath is so tragic. Deborah Hersman, thanks so much for all the information.

HERSMAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, the war against ISIS or Daesch as they're referred to derisively. That war is ramping up. As we speak, the U.S. is moving more assets into northern Iraq. We're going to take you live to the Pentagon for some answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)