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Jordan Launches Air Strikes; Russia Steps Up Ukraine Aggression; Rescue Crews Searching for Survivors in Taiwan; John Kerry Speaks in Ukraine

Aired February 5, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What they call earth shattering revenge, Jordan pounding ISIS from the air, retribution for the grisly murder of a Jordanian pilot.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The crisis in Ukraine dire, according to the Obama administration, so will the U.S. step in now?

Secretary of State John Kerry is on the ground in Kiev today. We're waiting to hear from him live. We're going to bring Secretary Kerry's presser, his comments, to you as soon as it happens.

BERMAN: New clues behind what caused this deadly train crash. Why didn't an SUV driver move her car from the track right before the horrific impact?

Hello, everyone. Great to see you. I'm John Berman.

BOLDUAN: Good morning, guys. I'm Kate Bolduan.

We're following a lot of breaking news at this hour. The first round of Jordanian air strikes against ISIS have begun, the U.S. -- with U.S. warplanes flying alongside in support. The target? ISIS positions inside Syria.

BERMAN: This is revenge, no other way to put it, revenge for the barbaric murder of Jordanian pilot Muath al-Kasasbeh. He was burned alive in a cage by ISIS militants.

A Jordanian spokesman says this is the Muslim world's war now. He spoke to CNN a short time ago. You'll hear him using the phrase Daesh, which is a derogatory Arabic acronym for ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD AL-MOMANI, JORDAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: This is our war. This is the Muslim world war because Daesh is an affront to Jordan, and putting threats to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and other Gulf countries as well as Iraq and Syria, of course.

So it is logical for all of us to say and understand and accept that this is our war, especially that Daesh is committing this war in the name of Islam, which is absolutely incorrect and not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the king of Jordan has vowed a relentless war against ISIS.

We want to bring in Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Also with us here in New York, Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

Barbara, let's start with you. What is being hit by whom and how hard?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's important to start with this point, King Abdullah of Jordan, now a full wartime commander in the Arab Islamic world. He's responsible to his people, and he is making it very clear that these air strikes are Jordan's position now to fight ISIS.

It's our understanding, the first wave of air strikes concluded several hours ago, perhaps as many as two dozen, just under two dozen Jordanian F-16s flying against targets.

The Jordanians are already saying it was in eastern Syria, mainly, with U.S. air support, the U.S. flying alongside, providing the traditional military support, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, any kind of support function that the Jordanians would need. That is typically how this works.

The question now will be in the coming hours what success are these air strikes? The Jordanians want to inflict significant damage on is, but have they been able to find those ISIS targets?

ISIS has been essentially trying to melt away. They're not blind. They're not stupid. They know the Jordanians are coming after them. So all accounts indicate they've been essentially trying to disperse, not show any profile, not show anything that would give the Jordanians a target to hit.

Behind the scenes, intelligence, military intelligence has been looking very closely for the last couple of days, trying to locate the targets to hit. And we will see in the coming hours how successful they are.

BOLDUAN: Barbara, stick with us.

Fareed, Barbara is laying out exactly what the air strikes included. The king calls it a relentless war now against ISIS. What does this mean in the broader campaign against ISIS?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": The most important shift here is actually not military, but political. The Jordanians have been doing air strikes. The U.S. has been doing air strikes. There has been pressure from the air.

There still remains this problem in Syria, which is, firing a bomb from the air, who takes over from the ground? The problem is you don't have a ground force. The Assad army eventually would be the beneficiary in some sense.

But politically this is very important, because it means the Arab world is more united, more strongly opposed. It is not just the government; it's the countries that are doing this.

The Arab governments have always played this double game where they want to be out there fighting, but they don't want to be fighting so hard because their public is often not entirely with them.

Here we now see the Jordanian public clearly behind them, perhaps other Arab publics. All major imams and priests and Islamic scholars have denounced this in the Arab world, so I think that's the most important part.

And I hope that the Jordanian government and the king of Jordan, who is traditionally said to be a direct descendant of the prophet Mohammed, presses for the idea this is highly un-Islamic, this is barbaric.

And if that happens, the political dynamic shifts, which is actually more important than the military dynamic.

BERMAN: The Jordanian government says this is a Muslim war now. The question is, this week, or this month or until the very end?

BOLDUAN: How long does this sustain?

ZAKARIA: Remember the UAE jumped in, early on. And then they pulled out, saying they didn't want to do this because their pilots might be in danger of getting captured.

Guess what? It's a war, folks. If you're in a war, yes, your pilots might get captured.

BOLDUAN: And Jordan's pilot was captured and they're second more in now.

ZAKARIA: Yeah.

BERMAN: Fareed Zakaria, thanks so much. Barbara Starr, thank you.

We will keep you updated if we hear more from the ground in this new round of air strikes.

Meanwhile there's another war to talk about right now. A grave escalation in the fighting, that is how a State Department official described the war. It really is a war now, being fought in eastern Ukraine.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is in Ukraine today. He's been meeting with Ukrainian leaders. The key question, will the U.S. send new lethal aid, new weapons to help the Ukrainian military in this conflict?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're not seeking a conflict with Russia. No one is, not President Poroshenko, not the United States, not the European community. That's not what this is about. We are very hopeful that Russia will take advantage of our broad- based, uniform acceptance of the notion that there is a diplomatic solution that is staring everybody in the face. That's what we want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But what exactly are they going to get this time around?

Secretary Kerry is not the only major figure in Kiev, in the area right now. French President Francois Hollande as well as the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, they are headed there as now with a new peace initiative they hope Ukraine and Russia can agree upon.

More of that to come, but most immediately, let's get to CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto who is in Kiev.

Jim, you've been traveling, following Secretary Kerry. We're waiting for this press conference to happen. That's where you are as well.

What more are you hearing about kind of the state of play in this dire situation?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Let me tell you. The descriptions of the situation on the ground in eastern Ukraine are truly alarming. Grave escalation, dire security situation, that's the way U.S. officials are describing it. The Ukrainian president described barbaric attacks on civilians there.

And this has been going on for a number of months but really escalated in the last several days, driven, U.S. officials say, by an enormous influx of Russian military power, heavy weapons, tanks coming across the border as well as -- John Kerry referred to this in his statement with the Ukrainian president a short time ago -- Russian troops commanding what he called "so-called separatists."

They describe this as a Russian operation and one that is accelerating. That is why you're seeing what is really a remarkable diplomatic showing, to have the secretary of state of the U.S. here, now joined later in the day by the French president, the German chancellor, who will then go on to Russia, because they view this not just as a Ukrainian problem -- and that is a severe thing -- but as a threat to Europe, as a threat to NATO.

You know, as -- when you talk about this, I always remind people this is a war in Europe, not in some far-flung place. It is in Europe. And in fact the front lines are moving westward in eastern Ukraine, out of what would normally be described as eastern Ukraine.

BERMAN: It is a war in Europe, as you say, and key European leaders, as Kate was saying before, on the way now to meet with the president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, and travel on to Moscow as well.

A lot of developments there, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much. Again, we do expect to hear shortly from the secretary of state. We'll bring that to you as soon as it comes.

After the break we will also speak to former U.S. ambassador of Ukraine Steven Pifer to get his take on the crisis there.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Coming up for us, warning signals blaring, a train barreling toward her, why didn't the driver of an SUV get off the tracks, or at least get off the tracks in time? Investigators looking for answers this morning in what -- in that very deadly New York train crash.

BERMAN: A strong accusation from an al Qaeda terrorist, he claims that members of the Saudi royal family helped pay for the 9/11 attacks. You know what? Some American officials seem to agree with him. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: The word from Secretary of State John Kerry today, we cannot close our eyes to tanks coming across the border from Russia. The secretary is in Kiev talking about how to resolve the crisis in Ukraine with Ukraine's president and the prime minister.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We don't view this as a zero-sum game. We have never viewed it that way. This is not meant to be nor should it be a divide between east and west.

This is about rule of law. It's about the norms by which nation-states behave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So what will the U.S. do about it? What should the U.S. do about it?

Let's talk to a man who knows the region well, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Steven Pifer. Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us.

You, sir, support providing a new round of lethal aid to the Ukrainian government, to the Ukrainian military. What will that do?

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, eight of us put out a report that argued for substantial military assistance, although the bulk of that would be nonlethal assistance.

We did say that the one item that the Ukrainians need would be light and man-portable antiarmor weapons. But the goal here is to give the Ukrainian military the ability not to beat the Russian army -- they're not going to be able to do that -- but to impose such costs on the Russian army if the Russians escalate the conflict that Moscow decides that the military option is not there or it does not have a cheap military option, and then therefore, as with the sanctions, this is pressure on the Russians to turn to a negotiated, peaceful settlement. BOLDUAN: This is a real question today right now on the ground. You

heard from the secretary. You've heard from the administration there, calling this a dire situation that's only getting worse

And you, when putting out this report, I also read in the piece you put in "The Washington Post" that you think the calendar is not on the side of Ukraine in this situation. You say time is urgent. Why is that?

PIFER: Well, there were a group of the authors -- five of us were in Ukraine about three weeks ago, and we had an opportunity to meet with officials both in Kiev but we also traveled out to the frontal headquarters in (inaudible) about 45 kilometers from the line of contact between the separatists and the Ukrainians.

And what we heard there was concern. What happens in this spring? Right now, it's very cold, it's hard to conduct military operations. You have no tree cover. There is a concern, does something spike up in April or May?

BERMAN: You, in your defense of providing lethal antitank weapons, you say there's no way to beat the Russians militarily, which indicates there will have to be some kind of negotiation here, both sides will have to come to the table. What is the end game that you're willing to accept? How much autonomy for the pro-Russian separatists in that part of Ukraine would you be willing to accept?

PIFER: That's going to be a decision that Ukraine has to make. But if you look over the last six or seven months, Ukrainian President Poroshenko has said things like he's prepared to decentralize power, give authority to regional and municipal authorities in eastern Ukraine. He's prepared to grant status for the Russian language. He's prepared to have a conversation between Ukraine, the European Union, and Russia to (INAUDIBLE) any impact on Ukraine/Russia economic relations of Ukraine are going forward with its association agreement with the European Union. And at one point, he was talking about taking NATO off the table. That seems to have changed in that last point, in part because opinion of the Ukraine public has shifted, given that Russia has seized, Crimea has been now conducting this war for ten months in eastern Ukraine.

BOLDUAN: Mr. Ambassador, one final question, I've been seeing the report that came out. A lot of folks have been reading it because there are a lot of big names, including yours, putting forth this proposal for more money, as well as aid and arms going to Ukraine. But the pushback is more weapons is going to make the security situation worse, more volatile, more unstable. How are American weapons going to make it better there and not worse?

PIFER: We've heard this argument and we thought about this: Does this lead to escalation? But if you look at what the Russians have done since seizing Crimea, if you look at their actions since April of last year, where they supported the separatists, they provided heavy arms, and then the Russian army entered eastern Ukraine in August, the Russians have escalated. They've done that because they don't see many costs to this exercise. The hope here is that by evening out the playing field a bit, we can give the Ukrainians the ability to defend their homeland and to make further aggression, further escalation by the Russians and the separatists that they back more difficult, and ultimately persuade Moscow that you have to move off of the military solution to what everybody in the West, what the president says, what Chancellor Merkel says, it has to be a negotiated diplomatic solution. We have to get the Russians there.

BERMAN: Ambassador Steven Pifer, we'll see what the outcome is of these discussions any minute now. We're expecting to hear from Secretary of State John Kerry. Ambassador, thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Of course then, the Russian response, as the Ambassador says, is key on this as well.

Ahead for us, rescue workers searching for 11 people still missing today after this plane's jaw-dropping plunge into a Taiwanese River. We'll have that.

BERMAN: And investigators digging through the charred wreckage of the deadliest train crash in the history of a New York commuter rail line. Looking for clues as to why the driver of an SUV did not get off the tracks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Happening now, rescue crews searching for 11 people still missing after this incredible crash caught on camera in Taiwan. At least 32 people killed in that just horrific accident. Just a few minutes ago, we learned the analysis of the flight data recorders is now complete. Investigators now just beginning to figure out what went wrong there. There was a mayday call to air traffic control seconds before the crash that said "engine flameout."

BOLDUAN: You're also hearing the incredible call, the taxicab you see in this video, the taxi cab driver made to his office right after the plane's wing clipped the car. You can hear the disbelief, really, when the taxi driver describes what happened as the operator asks again and again if he's talking about a model airplane.

(AUDIO CLIP OF TAIWANESE TAXICAB DRIVER 911 CALL)

BOLDUAN: Amazingly, that driver and his passenger only suffered minor injuries. Also amazing, 14 people survived this crash. Coming up in a few minutes, we're going to look into the mayday call and other clues that they're starting to draw from this accident.

BERMAN: Happening now, NTSB investigators looking over evidence from the scene of Tuesday's deadly train collision. Six people were killed after a train collided with an SUV just north of New York City. The train and the car were removed last night from the tracks. Service has resumed on the rail line following what is being called the deadliest crash in the history of this rail line.

BOLDUAN: Officials have identified all six victims, including the driver of the SUV. A friend of hers spoke about the loss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIRGINIA SHASHA, VICTIMS' FRIEND: She loved her daughters, she was a wonderful mother, and she was a dear friend. And I do not know what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: As she and many others begin their process of grieving, the investigation is very much underway this morning. For that, let's bring in NTSB board member Robert Sumwalt. Robert, you've been at the site of the crash with the investigative team. Where do things stand this morning?

ROBERT SUMWALT, MEMBER, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Well, Kate, good morning. We're making good progress with the investigation. We're documenting, we've already successfully documented the wreckage. We've downloaded the event recorders from the train. We've secured the event recorders from the signal gates. We plan to interview the engineer this afternoon. So we are really making good progress.

BERMAN: There are a couple key questions here that people say are crucial to this investigation. No. 1, why did this SUV driver, why was she unable to get her vehicle off the tracks in time? And the second question is why was this so deadly? I mean, trains, sadly, hit cars, hit vehicles, but they're not usually this catastrophic, the results. Any clues why this might be? Any clues about train speed, about the distance with which the engineer saw the vehicle and was trying to brake?

SUMWALT: We'll be doing a sight distance test to see the distance, if you were in a car, in an SUV on the tracks and look down the tracks, how much time would you have before you could see a train was coming, and we'll do the reverse of that, to see if you're an engineer of a train looking down the racks, how long would it take you to see an SUV. We'll be doing that. Today, I think we'll have the speed analysis of the event recorder of the train and I think we'll be talking to witnesses to understand why was that car on those tracks.

BOLDUAN: Robert Sumwalt, NTSB board member, thank you very much. We'll be getting back to you as the investigation continues. So many questions. As you say, the investigation really just getting underway. We're going to have to leave it a little quickly, though, because we're going to have to move back overseas as Secretary John Kerry and the Ukrainian Prime Minister are speaking right now. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Before that, lunch with the Prime Minister, before that, a meeting with President Poroshenko. In doing this, also to be able to coordinate our diplomacy with Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande, whose presence here today is really a further testament both to the importance of this moment, but also to the very strong support, the united support, Ukraine enjoys throughout Europe, and together with the United States and many other countries. I was last in Kiev about 11 months ago, and in the time since, Kiev has been tested. The people of Ukraine have been tested over and over again. Just days after I was here, Russia seized Crimea, and we all know what followed. But what often gets lost in the headlines, what people haven't focused on sufficiently, is the fact that Ukraine has survived all of the tests that have been put in front of it. It has endured, and the Ukrainian people have evidenced enormous resolve to be able to live in a strong Democratic state. In fact, this country has experienced some really rather remarkable Democratic successes. Even in the face of these incredible challenges, and we've seen from the brave demonstrations that took place on the Maidan, to two rounds of free and fair elections, I might add, conducted with great effort by opponents of democracy to prevent them from taking place. Those two rounds have taken place, and a strong government respecting the sovereignty of the state has emerged. Importantly, the parliament has passed a solid budget and it has laid the groundwork for and begun to implement very important reforms as part of a larger reform plan for the country. No one thinks that the hard work is over. It's not over. In some ways, some of the hard work is only beginning. But as I told the Prime Minister just a few minutes ago, the United States is going to continue to support Ukraine as it pursues more Democratic and more sovereign clarity of independence as it pursues its future.

We are committing to help to ensure that Ukraine has the economic stability in order to implement the reforms that the people are demanding and that the government has promised. So we're working with the government, working with the IMF, with the World Bank, we're working with our allies. We're working in many different ways to try to guarantee the economic future, as well as the civic society, Democratic future of Ukraine.

We are moving forward, as we announced just the other day, a loan guarantee of $1 billion in order to support Ukraine's economic reform program and assist the government to meet its near-term spending needs, and we have told the government, and we've announced publicly, that we are prepared to pursue another $1 billion loan guarantee this year as we see the reforms stay on track. We also know that the cost will be well more than what I've just articulated. And we understand the importance of all those who have been advocates of a free and Democratic Ukraine and all those who understand the importance of the effort being expended by the people of Ukraine.