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Romney to Announce Presidential Decision Today; Deadline Passes for Prisoner Swap; Deadly Measles Virus Spreads to 14 States

Aired January 30, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Dana Bash is on the phone with some insight into this. Why now, Dana, what do we know?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Good morning.

The reason why now is because he has been very clear I'm told from multiple sources, that he gets that this is a decision that he has to make very soon, because he has done this twice before. And he understands that there are people waiting. There are people who he would need and when it comes to money, when it comes to support, when it comes to staff.

And so, it's something that kind of urgent that he has to -- has to decide. And when we say decide, it's unlikely I'm told to be you know, good morning, ladies and gentlemen, I'm running for president, or not. It's more likely to be the kind of baby step with a sort of a wink and a nod that we've seen from Jeb Bush, that we've seen from Chris Christie, from others. You know, forming some kind -- like maybe if he goes forward, to form some kind of entity that allows him to raise money and build the staff that he would need to do to make a formal decision, formal announcement down the road.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dana, it's Alisyn here. Just last night Mitt Romney and President Obama were in a bit of a sort of sparring match, via Twitter, and the president speaking at this Democratic retreat about the war on poverty and who was going to be more successful.

So, given that he has been so engaged lately in the past few days and weeks, what do you think his announcement will be?

BASH: Put me on the spot. Look, it's -- talking to people who know him and have worked with him for years and years, you know, basically that the discussion process is -- that it is very, from their perspective -- these are, you know, Romney supporters. From their perspective it is very unusual, and they even use the word unprecedented for somebody who has run twice, to have the kind of encouragement that they say he has gotten from donors, from supporters, from people in airports. And more importantly, for someone like Romney, who is a data guy, from -- from polls that he has seen.

CUOMO: Right, I mean, look, Dana... BASH: The flip side of that is...

CUOMO: Yes.

BASH: ... they know that he will always be the 47 percent guy.

CUOMO: Right.

BASH: He has -- he has an image that is very, very difficult to shake when, especially when it comes to those issues of understand -- of poverty and somebody who's rich and can't understand other people.

But you know, he feels that the -- so the question is, is balancing those two things, never mind the whole fire in the belly, to go at it a third time? That's the big question.

CUOMO: Right. Well Dana, obviously, we're not -- we're just playing with putting you on the spot. Either we know or we don't.

But the motivation for this is very clear. We've got John Avlon joining us again here in studio. We're going to talk to him about this in just a second. Because Dana, what this is really about, obviously, is going to be money.

So John, let me put that to you. That's lot of talk on that side of the fence, that they want get their game on earlier. They want to capitalize on what the Democrats are not doing, which is getting behind someone. That must be what's fueling this.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's certainly -- I mean, once Jeb Bush got in, that changed the complexion of the race. That was a real surprise. It also increased the accelerated search for donors, and there's a lot of overlap between the Bush and Romney camps in terms of donors in key support.

Yesterday, big announcement in Iowa. One of the key Iowa campaign operatives who'd been with Romney for two cycles went with Jeb. So that's one of the things applying pressure, and it must be driving this decision timetable. But it's big news, you know, what we find out on that 11 a.m. call changes the whole complexion of the race.

CAMEROTA: And didn't Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney just have their own sort of come-to-Jesus talk about this?

AVLON: I don't know if it rises to come to Jesus level. But they did have -- they did have a meeting and, by all accounts, it was oddly nonpolitical. I think it was more sort of, you know, two potential nominees.

CUOMO: You don't think there was a -- "So what do you think about being the vice president?" And the other guy was like, "Who, me or you?"

AVLON: Yes. That conversation could go on all day long. Like a Laurel and Hardy routine. You know, look, they have overlapping constituencies to some extent.

They both represent the center right. They're both policy people, particularly Jeb. They have really overlapping depth of bench when it comes to the money game. And as we've discussed so much, who the donors line up behind, that donor primary matters...

CUOMO: The reality of money in politics, as long as Citizens United is on the books. So what do you think, yea or nay?

AVLON: I would go yea. The operation has not been operating like people dipping their toe in the water. Look at the engagement last night. Not only from the Romney Twitter feed but from a lot of the associated operatives. They are engaging in this debate.

CUOMO: Alisyn, I ask you what you asked Dana Bash: what do you think, yea or nay?

CAMEROTA: Well, I think that the momentum, he seems to feel as though he has momentum. Everything that we've been reporting in the past two days. He's been at the ribs joint. People were saying, "We sure wish you were in the White House."

But Dana, I want to get back to you, because the one fly in the ointment was always Ann Romney, who said no, no, no, no a few months ago. But she perhaps has changed her tune recently? Dana, are you there?

BASH: I'm sorry, guys...

CUOMO: Busy reporting.

BASH: Can you repeat that?

CAMEROTA: If his family -- would his family, including his wife, Ann, be on board?

BASH: I mean, what I have been told in the past week is that, if he decides, she's 100 percent on board. A hundred percent.

And you're exactly right. She has been the no, no, no, how many ways can we say no? But what I've been told is that a couple things. One is she believes in him, as we all know. We've watched it over the past two election cycles. Two is, she has, you know, been witness to the, what they call the outpouring of support and encouragement for him to run.

And she, she's -- I don't know if anybody, if anybody has seen the documentary "Mitt," which was really an insightful view into any campaign, but specifically this campaign. The very last scene in this campaign, when they lose and they go home and the Secret Service is gone; and it's literally Mitt Romney and Ann Romney sitting alone in their living room, in their house. You think how on earth can these people put themselves through this again?

However, I'm told that, even so, Ann Romney is for anything that he will do, and I'm also told that she's beyond that. She's actually for it now.

CUOMO: Well, look, here's the reality. If Mitt Romney announces that he is running for president, that means that his wife is OK with it. That comes before the announcement. The family has to line up before the announcement.

AVLON: And especially this family, which is so tight.

And Dana just mentioned that documentary, "Mitt." I think the documentary was actually instrumental in the resurgence of Mitt Romney. Just because it allowed people to see the man behind the mask. And to see this family and to recognize there was an authentically good man and a good family behind that campaign.

CUOMO: So we'll see what happens at 11.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

AVLON: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: OK. We're going to have much more ahead for you on "Inside Politics" with John King. Stick around for that.

CUOMO: All right. So we're waiting on that news, but we do have news right now about the gut-wrenching wait to find out the fate of two hostages.

Officials in Jordan are still demanding proof that their captured pilot is alive before turning over a female jihadist to the terrorists known as ISIS. There is growing suspicion that this group of murderers is just playing with lives to get attention.

Still, the leaders in Jordan and Japan have to scramble to try to make a deal. Again, lives are on the line.

Let's bring in Will Ripley. He is on the ground in Tokyo. What is the latest from there, Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You really said it, Chris. There is a growing sentiment here that ISIS, this terror group, as they stretch this hostage crisis on, as they lie, as they make deadlines, as they break deadlines, they are playing two key U.S. allies, Japan and Jordan, like a fiddle.

And many people here are now wondering if one or both of these hostages are even still alive; if ISIS ever had any intention of handing them over; or if they continue to manipulate the situation to get the attention and the legitimacy that they so crave, at a time when coalition airstrikes are causing major damage.

They're trying to take back territory. They lost Kobani. They're launching lots of military action but with reduced numbers. And the sad truth is that there are two innocent lives, Kenji Goto, a Japanese journalist, and Mu'ath al-Kaseasbeh, a Jordanian pilot, that are being used right now as pawns, two lives who are in grave danger, devastating for their families. There's growing frustration in Jordan. Protests over the king's

handling of the situation and even new fears about the safety of Japanese citizens and diplomats in that country. And still, no answers about what ISIS is going to do next. And so these two major governments have to sit and wait on this terror group -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Will, thanks so much for that update -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Let's bring in Madeline Albright. She is a former secretary of state and former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. She's now the chair of the National Democratic Institute of the Albright Stone [SIC] Group. Albright Stonebridge Group.

Very nice to have you with us as always, Ms. Albright. Let me ask you this. Do you believe that there is any real intentionality on the part of these terrorists to deliver people alive?

MADELINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It's good to be with you, Chris. Let me say, it's very hard to read their motivations, beyond the fact that they want publicity. They really -- the more we talk about them, the more that pleases them. But it's very difficult, since we deeply care about the lives of the people. And -- but I think it's very hard to know what direction they're going. They are, in fact, I think, playing our two allies off against each other. And meanwhile, making it unbelievably difficult for the families and, really, all our heartstrings in terms of this. But the more we talk about it, the happier they are.

CUOMO: But not talking about it really isn't an option, either, especially with lives in the balance. Let me ask you...

ALBRIGHT: Absolutely. I agree, completely. We have it talk about it, I'm just explaining the problem, the paradox.

CUOMO: I understand. I understand and I appreciate the perspective on it. What would you do, if you were still in your role for the United States of America? What would you do?

ALBRIGHT: Well, I didn't -- I would never negotiate with terrorists, because I think that just encourages them more. But this, in many ways, is a different kind of a case in the Jordanian one, where this is a military person, a pilot, and in fact, countries do do their best to bring their military home.

CUOMO: But it gets confusing, Secretary. We've been struggling with it here. Jen Psaki, you know her well. She's now at the State Department. here was her explanation of what the United States is supposed to do in situations like this. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Our position as the United States government is that we don't make concessions to terrorists. Now there are certain circumstances, and you've been talking a little bit about Bowe Bergdahl this morning, where he was a member of the military, someone who had volunteered to serve his country; and we don't leave our men and women behind. We took steps to bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: If you were going to talk to other countries about what they are supposed to do, you better be clear about what you do yourself. And this does not seem clear, Madam Secretary. Because either you negotiate or you don't. What is this notion that you have a different rule if it's a member of the military or a different rule depending on circumstances or a different rule if it is a citizen? Doesn't that breed a feeling of hypocrisy?

ALBRIGHT: I don't think so, because I do think that we have, all our countries, a responsibility to our militaries, who are out there defending us and then get captured in the course of defending their countries.

I do think that one of the really bad parts and something that we have to explain over and over again, that paying ransom or negotiating does, in fact, encourage more seizing of hostages. And part of the issue with ISIS is, sadly, they are making money off of the ransom, and they need the money in order to continue to terrorize the people in the region.

CUOMO: We're going to keep following that situation. You know, you don't want to give it any more attention than it needs. But again, lives are on the line, so we have to figure out if there's any chance of progress.

Another situation: have you ever heard of anything like the House of Representatives in the United States inviting a foreign leader to come in and presumptively criticize the sitting president? Like we have with Benjamin Netanyahu?

ALBRIGHT: I think that it's a very unfortunate situation. The speaker does have the right to invite somebody. But the bottom line is, that just normal protocol would, in fact, ask that there be some connection with the executive branch. But there have been so many voices on this, I don't think I can add much beyond thinking that it's a fiasco, and it's most unfortunate.

CUOMO: But Madam Secretary, few voices have the understanding of how these situations can play out the way you do. So he's going to come here. He's -- we know what he's going to say, Prime Minister Netanyahu. It is going to be critical of the president. And the question becomes is this something to play politics with?

ALBRIGHT: I happen to think it's not something to play politics with. I think that the relationship that we have with Israel is beyond question. It's one our greatest allies. We support -- we understand the difficulties that they have in terms of their region's security. I do think we have to be very careful not to politicize something like that. But I truly do think that, at this stage, I hope that Prime Minister Netanyahu understands the complications of the situation.

CUOMO: Everybody in the United States government always says that we stand with Israel. It is an odd maneuver, at best, to show some type of division on that by inviting the prime minister. We'll see what the fallout is.

Now, here's a situation that seems much more certain to me. Let's see if it is to you: What's going on in the Ukraine. Do you think that there's any doubt whether or not Russian military, Russian government is being employed in that situation against the Ukrainian government?

ALBRIGHT: There doesn't seem to be a lot of doubt. I have to say, partially, there have been -- the military at NATO have indicated that they have been able to see a lot of Russian equipment that the Ukrainian separatists could not have gotten any other way. There is, I think, you know the green people, the little green men that go in are subverting things. Today there is news that things are even worse in eastern Ukraine.

I think there is very little doubt that the Russians are involved in it in some kind of a way in terms of supporting the separatists.

CUOMO: We are told many of the roads that we used over the summer in Ukraine are no longer passable in that eastern region of the country.

The pushback, Madam Secretary, is "These people are oppressed; they are Russian. The Ukraine government is not just bad, but it is evil intentioned towards them. They are crying out for help. Wouldn't the United States do the same for their own?" Is that fair?

ALBRIGHT: Absolutely not fair. Because the whole premise has been made up. And I think that the media in Russia is into propaganda on this particular issue, and they're propagandizing their own people in order to make sure that there's support for President Putin on this. And also, a lot of the people in that region in eastern Ukraine, who are also hear that the Kiev government is, in fact, trying to terrorize them. Which is absolutely not true.

Which is why I have made quite clear now that I do believe that we, the west, needs to give some kind of more military support to the Ukrainians, so that they are able to defend themselves.

CUOMO: Well, that is a strong statement. We haven't heard any action like that to be in the foreseeable future. The United States government just says Russia has to abide by what it promised in the Minsk agreement, which seems somewhat laughable at this point. So we'll see what happens there, and we look forward to coming back to you for that, Madam Secretary.

One quick button: Mitt Romney announcing at 11 a.m. today on a phone call that he either will or will not run for president. Give me the answer.

ALBRIGHT: I think he probably will.

CUOMO: Mmm. Ad is it true that you will announce right after?

ALBRIGHT: Absolutely. Especially since I wasn't born in the United States...

CUOMO: That's right. ALBRIGHT: ... and could not.

CUOMO: That's right. That is the correct answer. Madam Secretary, thank you so much. Appreciate having you on NEW DAY as always.

ALBRIGHT: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We are following breaking news. As you just referred to, Mitt Romney expected to announce his decision about a 2016 presidential campaign. Will he run? John King breaking all that down on "Inside Politics."

And a measles outbreak that began at California's Disneyland, spreading to more than a dozen states now and triggering yet another debate over vaccinations. What you need to know from the CDC, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Eighty-four cases of measles reported across 14 states, bringing renewed attention to the ongoing vaccine debate in this country.

Joining us now, the director of the Centers for Disease Control's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, Dr. Anne Schuchat.

Dr. Schuchat, thanks for being here this morning.

DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, DIRECTOR, CDC'S NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: I have covered this story for a long time, and I have interviewed dozens ever parents who have decided not to vaccinate their children. So let me attempt to represent their side and have you respond to their concerns.

One of the first things that I hear from parents who have decided not to vaccinate is, "If you, Dr. Schuchat, vaccinate your daughter, but I choose not to vaccinate my daughter, then at school, your daughter is protected; mine isn't. So why are you concerned?"

SCHUCHAT: Measles can be serious. And people can die from measles or get pneumonia or long-term mental problems from measles. So I would take -- hate to take chances with my own child.

I think most parents think measles is gone. But it's forgotten, but not gone. And the outbreaks that we're seeing so far this year are a reminder that measles is a plane ride away, 20 million cases around the world, and it can be in your own community.

CAMEROTA: But again, if you've vaccinated your child, shouldn't they be the ones who are protected from measles.

SCHUCHAT: You know, absolutely. This vaccine is highly effective and very safe. And so the best way to protect your child is to get your child vaccinated. We recommend two doses. One between 12 and 15 months and the second between the ages of 4 and 6. That's the best way to make sure your children are safe and healthy and protected against the measles virus.

CAMEROTA: But again, to the point of parents who are choosing not to vaccinate their children, and the reason we're bringing this up is because there seems to be this groundswell of parents in California and beyond, across the country, who for their own reasons, do not want to vaccinate their children. Because they believe that it somehow puts their children at risk in doing so. Why should there be complaints from other parents who are vaccinating their children, because their children theoretically should be protected?

SCHUCHAT: One of the critical things about measles and the vaccines is that it's a live viral vaccine. And not everybody can get it. So we have to -- we are not able to vaccinate babies under six months of age, for instance, and we're not able to vaccinate people with leukemia. People who are pregnant can't get the vaccine. And those people really do rely on the high levels of vaccination in everyone else.

When we let communities have high rates of unimmunized people, the babies who are too young to be vaccinated in that community are at great risk. Babies can have very serious complications from measles.

So I think for parents who are on the fence out there, in my conversations, it's usually because they don't even think this virus is still around. So I want those parents to know, it's still out there and it is a risk.

The second thing is parents are wondering, is that vaccine safe? There have been so many studies and hundreds of millions of doses of measles vaccine have been used. It's very safe and extremely effective. It's effective after one dose, but it's even more effective after two doses; and we recommend the two doses, because a small percentage of people won't respond to a first dose. Nearly all of them will respond to that second dose.

And so I think most parents want to keep their kids healthy and safe and want to keep themselves and their families able to go out and enjoy -- enjoy events.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SCHUCHAT: And getting vaccinated is the right thing to do for this disease.

CAMEROTA: And what some parents who are choosing not to vaccinate their kids would say is that, yet there are vaccine injuries. These exist. And if one of their children, they feel was injured by a vaccine, I mean, there are records from the HHS that show that there have been 946 children injured by the measles vaccine. Over the course of the past 27 years, that's not much. That's really a small fraction. However, some parents who have friends whose children were injured

somehow or their own child was injured somehow. What do you say to parents who fear that something will result as, as a product of having gotten the measles vaccine? A sickness or an injury somehow.

SCHUCHAT: Making sure vaccines are safe is extremely important to me as a public health leader and as a physician. I think it's critical that we monitor vaccines before they're used routinely and continue to monitor them after they're in widespread use.

We have an enormous evidence base in support of the safety and the efficacy of the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine. There have been rumors. There have been concerns. There have been questions. There's a huge evidence base now that the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism.

And I think that's a question that a lot of parents have. Autism is a terrible disease. Very challenging for families and communities. And actually our healthcare and educational systems. But the MMR vaccine is not linked with that condition.

So I think it's critical for parents to get good information. We know parents get, rely most importantly on their pediatricians or clinicians, and we encourage them to have good discussions with their doctors or nurses.

CAMEROTA: And we do encourage parents, as well, to go to the HHS website, as well as the CDC website for more information. Dr. Anne Schuchat, thanks so much for coming on NEW DAY and helping to explain this.

SCHUCHAT: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

And we invite your comments. You can find me, @AlisynCamerota, on Twitter.

Meanwhile, we do have some breaking news we want to get to this morning, Mitt Romney expected to announce to supporters in just hours whether he intends to move forward with a presidential run. How likely is it that he will make another go at the White House? John King will tell us on "Inside Politics."

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Tom Brady is about to play in his sixth Super Bowl. We're going to talk to the author of a fascinating "New York Times Magazine" profile on the future Hall of Famer. Brady, deflate-gate and his sniffles, ahead right here on NEW DAY.

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