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CNN NEWSROOM

New England Patriots Investigation; Drug Drone Crashes; Republicans Talk Tough on President's SOTU Agenda

Aired January 23, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

As the NFL looks to get to the bottom of Deflategate, underinflated footballs are not likely to show up in the Super Bowl. The NFL is following the tradition, they're - it's picking an equipment manager from another team to be in charge of the game balls. This year it'll be the Chicago Bears.

All this after Tom Brady takes a shot at quieting the controversy over the footballs he used during the AFC championship game against the Colts. Brady says it is not his fault.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Tom Brady a cheater?

TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK: I don't believe so. I mean, I feel like I've always played within the rules. I would never do anything to break the rules. You know, I believe in fair play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Brady is not winning over critics, including Hall of Fame quarterback Troy Aikman, who thinks the penalty needs to be as severe as the New Orleans Saints punishment for paying to injury opposing players.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY AIKMAN, FORMER DALLAS COWBOYS QUARTERBACK (voice-over): Obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this. For the balls to have been deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So you're asking yourself more than once, do Tom Brady's answers make any sense? And what happened to those footballs from pregame to the snap? Andy Scholes joins us now with some answers.

Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Good morning, Carol.

Yes, and the million dollar question remains, when and how did these footballs get deflated? You know, the NFL is in a tough spot. Evidence looks like it's going to be hard to come by. That's probably why we haven't heard from the league. No one is taking responsibility, especially Tom Brady.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK: I have no knowledge of anything. So I don't know what happened. I don't know, I'm not - I don't know everything.

SCHOLES (voice-over): The theme from Tom Brady's press conference is that he claims to know nothing about how or when the Patriots game balls ended up under inflated against the Colts.

BRADY: You know, I didn't alter the ball in any way. I have a process that I go through before every game where I go in and I pick the footballs that I want to use for the game.

SCHOLES: According to NFL rules, each team supplies 12 footballs to the officials for their offense to use when they are on the field. Those footballs are tested by a referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to each game to make sure they meet league requirements.

BRADY: When I picked those footballs out, at that point, you know, to me, they're perfect. I don't want anyone touching the balls after that.

SCHOLES: Sources have told ESPN that 11 of the 12 footballs were under inflated and that the Patriots footballs were properly inspected by referee Walt Anderson before they were returned to the team.

BRADY: People are trying to figure out, as the NFL is trying to figure out, you know, what part of the process and, you know, from when I saw the ball, which was five hours before halftime, you know, what exactly happened?

SCHOLES: Balls are required to be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces. Once the balls are approved, they are put into bags and are set on the sidelines for each team. The balls are not guarded or watched in any way.

BRADY: I'm very comfortable saying that nobody did it as far as I know. I don't know everything. I also understand that I, you know, was in the locker room preparing for a game for five hours. I don't know what happened over the course of the process.

SCHOLES: According to WEEI in Boston, the Patriots used 12 backup balls in the second half against the Colts after the footballs in the first half were found to be under inflated by a reported 2 pounds per square inch.

BRADY: I did not feel a difference between the first half and the second half. I'm not squeezing the balls. I'm not - you know, I don't -- that's not part of my process. I grab it, I feel the lace, I feel the leather.

SCHOLES: Altering footballs after they are approved is a violation of league rules. A person found tampering with footballs could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the investigators in the league talk to you as part of the investigation?

BRADY: Not yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's odd that they haven't at this point then?

BRADY: I'm not sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you been told whether they will talk to you?

BRADY: I'm not sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: So he's not sure.

So, Carol, in terms of ball custody, let's break it down a little bit. Once the footballs are on the field, Brady, you know, he'll come out, he'll warm up. He'll pick up a couple of balls that he wants to start the game with. Then, when the Patriots are on offense, the ball boys on the sidelines are going to circulate the game balls Brady picked out in and out of the field of play, throwing them back and forth with the referees. So, again, the big question, when and how did the balls get deflated once they were on the field? The big -- it's a big mystery, Carol, and apparently no one knows anything, at least in the Patriots organization.

COSTELLO: No, no one -- has the NFL talked to Tom Brady?

SCHOLES: We don't -- in terms of - in what we heard from Brady, he said yesterday he hadn't heard from them yet, but he kept saying, I'm not sure if they've reached out to me yet. Left himself lots of wiggle room with saying I'm not sure.

COSTELLO: So it's possible the NFL won't have any answers when the Super Bowl rolls around?

SCHOLES: You would think they'd want to have this wrapped up by today going into the weekend, so when the teams arrive in Phoenix that this would be over with. But, Carol, I mean, who knows? This thing could drag into media day on Tuesday. And that would just be a disaster for the NFL.

COSTELLO: That really would be. It would be so bad. It would spoil a good time, wouldn't it?

SCHOLES: Sure would.

COSTELLO: And more. Andy Scholes, thank you so much.

So, Tom Brady says he didn't notice a difference in the footballs during the game, but a former NFL ball boy says he could have.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC KESTER, FORMER NFL BALL BOY: If he was really looking for it. But I do have to say, in the heat of the game, with everything going on, I can totally believe that Brady might not notice a drop in pressure in between quarters or plays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So maybe he would notice and maybe he wouldn't. Joining me now is former New England Patriots linebacker and teammate of Tom Brady, Chad Brown.

Welcome, Chad.

CHAD BROWN, FORMER NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS LINEBACKER: Thank you. Good morning.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here.

So you played with Tom Brady. Do you believe him?

BROWN: I do. I do. Tom Brady's character has been proven to me over the years. And in my time as a Patriots linebacker and being in that facility and being in that locker room, I never saw any, you know, cheating going on. I saw the hardest working, best football environment that I was ever a part of there in New England. And so their success is much more due to that than it is due to any kind of cheating.

COSTELLO: Have you read some of the vitriol online? Because there are plenty of people who think Tom Brady is lying. Why do you think that is?

BROWN: Well, when you're successful, you know, teams or fans of other teams aren't going to be happy about that. There are 32 teams in the NFL. The Patriots typically beat those other 31 teams on a regular basis. You would expect them as fans to not be happy about that. Unfortunately, you know, Tom Brady is the target of all this I guess fan hatred because of what Bill Belichick did with spy-gate. But, again, I've never seen anything dirty or cheating going on in the Patriots locker room.

COSTELLO: What about what Troy Aikman said? He said that Brady had to know. He's handled footballs for, what, since he was a child. He would notice a difference.

BROWN: And there are other quarterbacks who came out in support of Tom Brady. Now, manipulating the footballs, buffing the footballs, polishing the footballs has always been a part of preparing the footballs for a game for every quarterback. So perhaps, you know, Tom was aware of the treatment of the balls, how they get to be polished up to his standards. But, you know, again, I doubt that Tom would purposefully ask the ball boys to under inflate the footballs.

COSTELLO: OK, let's talk about Bill Belichick because you played under him as well. Do you believe him when he says, well, I don't even know how the process works?

BROWN: I do believe Bill. You know, a lot of NFL coaches like to go out there before a game and throw a football around with the players. Pete Carroll, for example, for the Seattle Seahawks, he does that all the time in pre-game, throws the ball around with his players. Bill Belichick is really focused on the x's and o's and the game plan before the game. So Bill picking up a football and grabbing and going, oh, this ball feels a little light, I don't think that's something Bill would notice, nor is it even on Bill's radar on game day.

COSTELLO: So - so what do you think happened? What's your theory?

BROWN: You know, I don't really have a theory. The difference in air pressures made in one locker room --

COSTELLO: Do you think that someone on that team cheated?

BROWN: It certainly is possible. But did Bill Belichick know it? I don't think so. To Troy Aikman's credit, if someone is manipulating a football, you would think the quarterback would know. But at the same time, there are other quarterbacks who have said, you know, the balls are always polished up and manipulated and the quarterback never asks about the specific ball pressure, he just wants the ball to feel right in his hands. So it is certainly possible that Tom Brady received an under inflated ball but did not notice.

COSTELLO: OK, I'm going to say something harsh and I apologize in advance.

BROWN: OK.

COSTELLO: But a lot of people feel the New England Patriots are arrogant cheaters and this is just something that everyone should have expected to happen.

BROWN: I understand the Patriots because of spy-gate are always going to be guilty in the court of public opinion. But, again, what Bill Belichick did years ago, does that automatically make Tom Brady a cheater? Is Bill Belichick going to the ball boys on one of the most important days of the season and asking them to under inflate footballs? Again, these are things that I seriously doubt. I'm not doubting that the balls were under inflated, but to say that Bill Belichick was complicit in this, I just can't agree with that.

COSTELLO: I think that the biggest shame in all of this is that there is no doubt Bill Belichick is a great coach. He's just great. And Tom Brady's a fabulous quarterback. But whether they're guilty or not, they'll be forever tainted by this.

BROWN: Yes. And there are always fans who, you know, want to put an asterisk by Patriot Super Bowl titles because of spy-gate. And, you know, I bump into fans all around town here in Denver who know that I played for the Patriots and they want to discount the Patriots' success and they think it's all about cheating. But as I said earlier, I was in that locker room. It was the hardest working, most passionate set of football people I've ever been around. The best football environment I'd ever been around. So the success of the Patriots is due to that hard work, to that passion, to that ingenuity, to that creativity, not to bending and pushing the rules.

COSTELLO: So what will it be like for the Patriots to play in the Super Bowl this year?

BROWN: I think the Patriots are going to use this as a rallying cry. And I heard you earlier talking to a guest about, you know, hopefully this is over by media day. I don't think this will be over by Tuesday, the media day down there at the Super Bowl. This is going to continue to be a topic, not just going into the week of this game, but even past this game regardless of the results. The Patriots are going to be labeled as cheaters by most in the public, and that's unfortunate because they didn't get here by cheating, they got here by hard work and by being a very, very good football team.

COSTELLO: Chad Brown, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it.

BROWN: Thank you very much for having me.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Of course, there are a lot of jokes about deflate-gate and it's helping the late night comics get quite a few laughs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": If the Patriots are found to have knowingly under inflated the balls, they might lose draft picks and the league could take away Bill Belichick's favorite hoodie. Gloria Allred is now representing nine of the 11 balls Tom Brady allegedly squeezed.

CONAN O'BRIEN, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: That's what the press is calling it, deflate-gate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Which means now my wife will have to use a different term to describe our honeymoon. Hmm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Sure sounds like something out of Hollywood. A drug smuggling drone, strapped with more than six pounds of crystal meth, crashes before crossing the U.S. border.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you listen to me, you've got the greatest meth cook (INAUDIBLE) two greatest meth cooks in America right here. And with our skills, you'll earn more from that 35 percent than you ever would on your own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have 40 pounds of product ready to ship, ready to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ah, if only those behind the failed flight had Walter White by their side, but they didn't.

Here's what we know. The drone crashed on Tuesday. It landed in a supermarket parking lot in Tijuana. The problem, the meth was too heavy for the drone. To put it in perspective, on the streets, six pounds of meth is worth about $48,000. Experts say this isn't the first time smugglers have tried to use drones for drug operations. So let's talk about this with Brian O'Dea. He's a former international drug smuggler and the author of the book "High." He served 10 years behind bars for importing 75 tons of marijuana into the United States. We're also joined by former DEA chief of international operations, Michael Vigil.

Welcome to you both.

MICHAEL VIGIL, FORMER DEA CHIEF OF INTL. OPERATIONS: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

BRIAN O'DEA, FORMER INTERNATIONAL DRUG SMUGGLER: Thank you. Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being with me.

Brian, I want to start with you. Before we talk about this drug smuggling drone, tell us about your own experience in the drug world. What kind of business did you operate and how did you get out?

O'DEA: Well, the business, I started like most people who got in that business, just kind of sharing dope with my friends, and 20 years later, it was 75 tons from Vietnam into Alaska and basically distributed across the U.S. How I got out of the business was after that last deal, I had too much money and not enough brains and had a heart attack from a coke overdose and that got my attention. I got sober after that and actually went to work in a drug and alcohol rehab before the DEA showed up and thrilled me with a 10 year sentence.

COSTELLO: Should I talk about that with you, Michael?

VIGIL: You can.

COSTELLO: Because I'm sure Michael would have a whole other viewpoint on that ten years thing.

VIGIL: Yeah. Exactly. COSTELLO: Exactly. Michael, seriously, officials say this drone

crashed because, of course, the meth was too heavy. Do you think this was a small scheme personal delivery kind of thing or is this part of something bigger?

VIGIL: Well, it could have been either. Keep in mind that drug smugglers always look at technology, they're always very dynamic in terms of diversifying their routes, using different methods to smuggle drugs, particularly across the U.S./Mexico border. They use tunnels. They use ultra light aircraft. They use pneumatic cannons to shoot loads of drugs across the border. They've even used catapults to moves drugs across the border. So I think that, you know, this type of technology is something that they are totally considering in moving drugs into the United States.

COSTELLO: So, Brian, do you think that this has been going on for a long time and we haven't noticed or have drug dealers just started to use drones?

O'DEA: Well, it's certainly recent. My partner, Henry Less, was one of the first people to shoot with the drone Niagara Falls, which we did for the Niagara Falls Tourist Commission. And when we did that, I saw this quad copter go down with the camera at the face of the falls and I thought, it's going to be five minutes before smugglers get one of these and start coming across the border with it. I'm just surprised it's taken so long for us to find one. Look, for every one that's caught, there are probably 100 that are not caught. There's a huge demand for drugs in the United States and that demand is being supplied. People who want to do drugs are using them, they're getting them, and so if we've caught one drone, there are probably 100 that have gotten through.

COSTELLO: And Michael, how easy is that to detect? I mean, you can see the drones flying overhead, right?

VIGIL: Well, these drones are -- you know, these small drones are very difficult to detect. They fly at a slow speed. They're very lightweight and you need specialized radar to be able to detect these little drones. But they have been used in the past, for example, in South Carolina, Georgia where little drones have flown into some of these prisons carrying cell phones, marijuana and, you know, cigarettes. So they have been used in the past on a limited basis, but I would venture to say that, you know, this may definitely be the wave of the future.

COSTELLO: Okay. So, Brian, let's say drug officials somehow are able to shoot every single drone that's carrying drugs somewhere down, right? Is that the way we're going to win the war on drugs?

O'DEA: Absolutely not. You know, it's time to make a different mistake, wouldn't you say? We've been making the same mistake for, what, 50, 60, 70 years? Throwing in excessive of trillion dollars at the same mistake. We keep building more prisons, locking people up, and we call that a success. It's no success. It's time to make a different mistake. This little badge that I'm wearing is from Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. My good friend, Neil Franklin, former police commander, Baltimore,

Maryland, he's the head of that now, and they have a saying, "Alcohol prohibition, drug prohibition. Same problem, same solution."

Look, we have -- there are only two options how people get -- how people can get drugs. There's not a third. The two options are you can either have them distributed by criminal gangs who control neighborhoods, destroy families, kill people, or you can have them distributed by medically savvy people, who in that distribution to the drug addict has an opportunity to have a conversation with them and help them change their point of view. Until we take that approach, we're not going to see any change. And like I said, there is no other choice. It's criminal gangs will give the drugs or control distribution through medically savvy people. Personally, we have chosen the first. We've seen where that has gotten us. Nothing has changed. It's exacerbated. I'm going for the second.

COSTELLO: What do you think, Michael?

VIGIL: Well, I disagree simply because the experiment of legalizing drugs has been attempted in many countries and it's met with dismal failure. Quite frankly, you have seen the addict populations significantly increase and quite frankly, you're not going to get rid of the criminal element because unless you are willing to legalize drugs for school-age kids -- You know, the kids of today have expendable money and they are able to afford buying very dangerous drugs. So unless you legalize it for the youth of America, you are still going to have criminal involvement.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Thanks to you both, it was a fascinating conversation. I have to leave it there. Brian O'Dea, Michael Vigil, thank you so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, tough talk from the top leaders in the Republican party as they weigh in on President Obama's State of the Union wish list. What do you think they said? We'll tell you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Republican Senator Marco Rubio is one step closer to making a presidential run in 2016. Dana Bash has confirmed Rubio has hired Anna Rogers, former finance director for Karl Rove's American Crossroads to lead his fundraising efforts. He's also expected to miss a string of Senate votes next week. In their place? A series of fundraisers in California. Rubio is also scheduled to visit some early primary states next month.

In the meantime, presidential rumors are swirling around Mitt Romney, too, as you know. His top advisers meeting in Boston today to discuss next steps. A top donor telling CNN he, quote, "Believes strongly Romney will run again."

Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have three simple words for President Obama and his State of the Union proposals: Not going to happen. The two Republican leaders talking tough during a joint interview airing this weekend on 60 Minutes. John Boehner tackling the idea of raising taxes on the rich head-on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, 60 MINUTES: From the president's State of the Union address let me ask you, dead or alive? Raise taxes on the wealthy.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: Why would he want to raise taxes on people? There's no free lunch. The president wants to raise taxes because he wants to increase Washington spending.

PELLEY: I'll take that as a dead.

BOEHNER: Dead. Real dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's going to be deja vu all over again. I hope not. That's not the only issue, though. Free college tuition and raising the minimum wage, yeah those are likely dead, too. But there are some areas of compromise for Congress and the White House. Really. Seriously. I'm telling you the truth. CNN's Athena Jones joins me now to tell us more. Good morning, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yeah, listening to the Republican leaders take on the president's middle class economics wish list and looking at that graphic, you can see there are not a whole lot of areas where the two sides are agreeing, but they did mention a couple of issues where they might be able to work with the president. Let's go ahead and play that clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELLEY: Dead or alive? Tripling the child care tax credit for employees.

BOEHNER: We're all for helping working class families around America. I think we'll take a look at this when he sends his budget up. Possible area of compromise here between the Democrats and the Republicans on child care tax credit. Certainly something we would look at.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I would just add trade. Virtually every Republican in the audience the other night stood up and applauded when the president talked about trade. So John is absolutely right. There are areas of agreement that we can make some progress on and we intend to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So while Republicans have been slamming all of the president's other ideas, not just since the State of the Union, but in the days leading up to the State of the Union just when the president began to lay them out, there are a couple of areas where they might be able to get something done, but then you heard, even on that child tax credit, which would be expanding the child tax credit to up to $3,000 for a preschool-aged child, that's money that could make a real difference in people's pocketbooks. They said it's possible they could find some area - a way to agree on that. Also trade, trade is an issue, though, that the president will run into problems with his own party. Democratic opposition to trade there.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about the child care tax credit for just a second because that's the most interesting one to me because the Democrats always talk about the supposed war on women, right? So if the Republicans go ahead with helping families with child care, that sort of deflates the war on women thing, doesn't it?

JONES: Certainly Republicans might argue that, but I don't think you can expect Democrats to drop that line of attack. And of course, as they indicated, this is just something that they -- They are leaving the door open to maybe working on this. But it's not really a definitive 'yes' in the way trade is. We know Republicans want to see fast track for these trade deals to get through to expand trade with Europe and the transpacific with Asia. We'll see what happens on the child tax credit. One more error, Carol, I should mention that both sides agree on, cybersecurity. Given the Sony hacking, given the state of the world right now, both sides want to see something done to improve cybersecurity.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones, thank you so much. Athena Jones reporting live from Washington. The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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