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CNN NEWSROOM

Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula Claims the Attack on the Magazine; Muslim Views on the Portraying Muhammad; French Muslims Feel Vulnerable to Religious Xenophobia; Republicans Fighting President's Executive Action on Immigration

Aired January 14, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with the deadly attacks in France and the first concrete claim of responsibility as the top commander for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula says his group had been planning the attack on "Charlie Hebdo" since 2011. And in a new video, he called Cherif and Said Kouachi heroes. The - of U.S. investigators believe that the terror group could have given Cherif Kouachi as much as 20,000 to finance the massacre when he left Yemen in 2011. Plus, we're also getting a new look at the two brothers. These images were taken from inside a gas station where they were armed and on the run from police.

Let's start this hour with this morning's new claim of responsibility. And details of how the attack on the magazine offices took shape. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more for you from Beirut.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The clearest claim of responsibility yet from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that they were behind the attacks on the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine in Paris. Now, this 12-minute message read by one of the official spokespeople Nasr Ibn Ali al-Ansi says that the Kouachi brothers were "Heroes who were assigned, accepted and fulfilled the task they were given." It also specifies that key al Qaeda leaders helped choose those targets. It says Ayman al-Zawahiri was involved in this plot in somewhere, and he's the successor to Osama bin Laden, the new head of al Qaeda, and he was an American citizen, key in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula known as Anwar al Awlaki. He was killed in a drone strike in 2011. This message says he was operationally involved in this attack.

Now, that's key because he was killed in a drone strike in 2011. And that would suggest that perhaps if he was involved in this, the planning was maybe in place or the resources or some sort of designation of the target as early as 2011 and the Kouachi brothers laid dormant for as long as three years in France before they launched this attack.

Bear in mind, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula less in the spotlight these days. ISIS now rampaging across northern Syria and northern Iraq more in the Jihadi spotlights, so to speak. The focus of American airstrikes, as we speak as well.

But there's another interesting point in this message too, Carol. They are clear that Coulibaly who attacks the kosher grocery store, was not one of theirs. He himself, in fact, left the video, in which he claimed allegiance to ISIS. What's key, though, is they say his attack was a coincidence and a fortunate one that assisted in the Kouachi operation here. Clear delineation between al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula claiming the Hebdo attack and then saying, but they had nothing to do with the kosher grocery store although they welcomed the fortunate coincidence of its timing suggesting what we've known really, that al Qaeda and ISIS, in some parts rivals, in some parts cooperating and it seems al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula key again to try and stamp out some territory for them when it comes to global jihadi marketplace looking for recruits. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Paton Walsh reporting. Thanks so much.

Jim Sciutto is with me again this morning. He's in front of "Charlie Hebdo's" offices in Paris. So, Jim, let's talk about al Qaeda in Yemen. Is there absolute proof that they actually planned this massacre?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: There is not absolute proof. There are indications at this point. First of all, you have the claim of responsibility today and video. You always take those with a grain of salt. But there are other things leading in that direction. Indications that the Kouachi brothers traveled to Yemen and had arms training, this in 2011. Now you have U.S. officials saying that they are operating under the belief now that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula gave those Kouachi brothers $20,000 in 2011 to finance such an attack.

So, you have some hard ties to al Qaeda, AQAP in Yemen in addition to the claim. But it's not the only group that you have ties to. Because there's a bit of a web. Core al Qaeda's chief recruiter, also tied to the Kouachi brothers, that takes you to Pakistan, not to Yemen. Now, it doesn't mean that these two groups don't -- if not operate together, operate with the same goals in mind. And it's possible that attackers like this could have multiple allegiances and as you saw the kosher market attacker, he pledged his own allegiance to ISIS as opposed to AQAP. So, it's still a complicated picture.

COSTELLO: OK, let's go back to the Kouachi brothers for just a second. Supposedly, they - I mean this plan was three years in the making. Could they remain under the radar for more than a year?

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. The idea of sleeper cells. That's where it comes from. That they go to sleep in effect for some time. That's possible this is the pattern. And it's possible that there was some method to that, in that by going to sleep, by falling off the radar to some degree. That seems to have succeeded in taking them off of surveillance. Because remember, the Kouachi brothers were under surveillance by French authorities until June of last year, June of 2014. Some six, seven months before they carried out the attack here. You know, I don't want to give them too much credit. They may just have been taking their time trying to figure out what their target is, but it is also possible that that was intentional and we've seen this phenomenon before.

So, you would have a case here where AQAP seeded this plot a number of years ago and it only came to fruition just last week.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about this web right now. Because the man who killed people at the kosher grocery store, right, his allegiance was to ISIS, but that doesn't necessarily mean that ISIS and al Qaeda were cooperating, right?

SCIUTTO: Absolutely not. It doesn't. He could have - you know, listen, these guys, these organizations and the people who follow these organizations, they can change their minds. They can be inspired by more than one group. They can also be attracted to the flavor of the month as it were.

ISIS has attracted a great deal of attention in the past 12 months because of its enormous success in Iraq and Syria.

In fact, there's been analysis that shows that that has created something of a competition as other terror groups attempt to show their relevance. How do you show your relevance? Sadly, by carrying out spectacular attacks like we saw a week ago.

Carol, just while I have you, I want to describe something that just happened a couple of moments ago behind us here at the "Charlie Hebdo" memorial. We heard a bit of applause. Why were people applauding? Because a Muslim gentleman came up to the memorial here and he said to the crowd assembled and this crowd is constant here as people come to pay their respects, he said that what these attackers did, did not represent Islam.

It was a Muslim man saying this has nothing to do with Islam. And it's just interesting in light of our conversation a few minutes ago about who exactly these attackers represent. But it was interesting to us. Because the whole crowd assembled here began to applaud what he was saying.

COSTELLO: That's good to hear. Jim Sciutto, we're going to get back to you a little later. Thanks so much.

3 million copies of the new "Charlie Hebdo" magazine sold out. Just take a look at some of the lines to get the first edition to hit the stands since the attack on the satirical publication. 2 million more will be printed due to worldwide demand. The new cover which CNN has decided not to show depicts a teary eyed Prophet Muhammad holding a sign that says "I am Charlie." The pictures accompanied by the words, "All is forgiven."

So, let's talk more about this by Imam Yahya Ibrahim. He's the Islamic chaplain at the University of Western Australia and head of Islamic studies at Langford Islamic college.

I'm also joined by CNN religion editor Daniel Burke. Welcome to both of you.

DANIEL BURKE, CNN RELIGION EDITOR: Thank you. It's a pleasure. COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Imam, do you find the new cover of

the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine blasphemous?

YAHYA IBRAHIM, ISLAMIC CHAPLAIN, CURTIN UNIVERSITY: I think the answer to that, really, isn't about the cover itself. It's more about the sentiment that it carries. And I think for Muslims the caricature itself is not really the issue. It's that someone knows that it could be offensive to you and they proceed to seek to offend you. And I think that's what Muslims really find as a sore point in the issue.

COSTELLO: The cartoonists who drew the cover, and I'll pose this question to you, Daniel, he says the cover indicated Muhammad has become a character in spite of himself because there are people who speak on his behalf. Is he right?

BURKE: Oh, certainly. I mean that's true of any religious figure. You know, that's true of Jesus. That's true of Buddha. That's true of Muhammad as well. And I think that what you see going on here is some scholars have said kind of almost a reverse form of idolatry that the prohibition of showing Prophet Muhammad becomes almost a religious belief in itself and that can turn into a violent religious belief, which is a perversion of what the original intention was. You know, Muhammad said don't depict me because he wanted all the focus to be on God and not particularly on the messenger.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So, in Turkey, Imam, there've been access. I mean you can't look at pictures of "Charlie Hebdo" anywhere. Even on the Internet. Turkish officials say the cover is provocative and it may incite more violence. Do you think that's true?

IBRAHIM: I think the fact that also you at CNN just mentioned that you decided also not to publish it and not to display it is quite telling. And I think it is, you know, a source of sensitivity for many people. Now, of course for us as Muslims, you know, we're a diverse and plural expression of faith. And one of the key issues that is really important to understand is that Muslims are not Islam. And there is a rainbow of Muslims that have a variety of cultural expressions of Islam in their ethnicities and languages and cultures. But the thing that draws us together as Muslims who practice Islam is the belief in one God. And that we believe that he sent messengers and prophets and from them, to us, the finality is Muhammad.

So, there is this conglomerates of people that come together from different expressions and therefore you find that there would be different nuances amongst the societies that you interact with. And because I wouldn't be able to comment directly on what is ongoing in Turkey, I can speak as a Western Muslim. You know, someone who was born and raised in Canada and now currently lives in Australia, happily and in harmony with everyone around me. I can tell you that, you know, for us as Muslims, the issue really isn't about the caricature. It's that we want people to respect us for who we are and to respect the red lines, I guess, or the sensitivities that we have as you on your show have done. And I think you should be applauded for that.

COSTELLO: So, Daniel, I'll ask this question. Muslims in France, they don't feel accepted by the country. They feel that many racist acts are carried out against them. Is the anger within France, Paris, coming from that and not really religion?

BURKE: You know what, Carol, that's a really excellent point. I think it's kind of like what we saw in Ferguson. That this was kind of in some way the tinger (ph) that lit the spark, but the embers were already burning. There's a prevailing feeling in France among many Muslims that they are not treated as part of the state at large. France has a very proud, a very long secular history and it's not always done the best of kind of integrating any of its religious minorities. French Muslims included. So there's a feeling there that Muslims may be bullied, that they may be pushed to the side. They passed a law recently that banned the full face veil which many Muslims took as an affront because it's a religious belief.

And if you really respect the freedom of expression, the freedom of belief, then why wouldn't they be allowed to use, you know, the full face veil. So I think you are really touching on something really deep and really large there, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much. I wish we could go on. But I have to leave it there. Imam Ibrahim, Daniel Burke, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, how are Muslims in Paris reacting to the "Charlie Hebdo" cover and why some believe this could lead to more violence in those communities. We'll talk about that more, next.

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COSTELLO: The French President Francois Hollande is talking to members of his military on an aircraft carrier off the coast of France. He spoke moments ago. I wanted you to listen in a little.

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FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): 17 people were killed by terrorists. Some because they were journalists. Police officers because they were police officers. And Jews because they were Jews. Once again I honor those victims. And I express my great gratitude to their relatives. Dealing with this trial, the French people were able to react. They responded through solidarity, brotherhood, unity of which our entire nation is proud.

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COSTELLO: And the victims continue to be honored in Paris. That's where Jim Sciutto is now. Hi, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Hi, Carol. Well, from these flower strewn streets just out Charlie Hebdo to the nearby bustling market places, the city of Paris comes to terms with last week's deadly attacks. There are new warnings here of growing anti-Islam backlash.

Arwa Damon has been following that part of the story. We have heard from Islamic groups about dozens of attacks on Islamic targets, mosques, et cetera, in the last week. How much urgency are you hearing for more police protection from Islamic groups here?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is a concern, Jim, for the Muslim population here. Of course, and we are in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood. Most of the people that we've been speaking to throughout the day are either originally from or are first generation North African - Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, for the most part. They want to see security, yes, but the main topic of conversation that everyone has really been bringing any sort of question back to is that cover of "Charlie Hebdo." People feel as if using the image of the prophet once again is yet another assault on their religion despite the underlying message that was there, one of forgiveness. They don't quite see why the image of the prophet was used yet another time and they feel as if this is perhaps a deliberate attempt to be even more provocative to try to create some sort of backlash against the Muslim community because they do feel as if they are being stigmatized by the acts of individuals with whom they do not associate.

They do not associate with the gunmen who carried out those horrific attacks. They do not promote violence or terrorism. But they are growing increasingly frustrated with this ongoing debate here about what it means to be Muslim in France. They want to be able to be done with that chapter in their history and quite simply be able to exist here no matter what their faith is. But there is at the same time this growing and very real concern about a rise in Islamophobia, Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. And we saw in other countries in Europe a similar phenomenon. There was an anti-Islamic march in Germany a couple of days ago, but that was quickly followed by a pro-Islamic march. Or an anti-Islamophobia march. So, Carol, you have these tensions in a number of countries in Europe and you have a number of ethnic groups here. You have Jews of France concerned about their safety, but you also have Muslims of France concerned about their safety, Carol. Some real divisions and real fears here.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Sciutto, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, House Republicans and Democrats are locked in yet another funding fight. Caught in the middle is the Department of Homeland Security. We'll talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: On Capitol Hill, the Paris terror attacks are looming large as the battle over the Department of Homeland Security hits up here at home. House Republicans are attempting to roll back some of President Obama's executive action on immigration by tying riders on the issue to funding for the Homeland Security Department, but the president is threatening to veto that legislation. That is if Senate Republicans can pass it.

So, let's talk about that with Republican Congressman Sean Duffy of Wisconsin. He's a member of the House Budget Committee and Democratic Congressman Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, a ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee. Welcome to you both.

REP. SEAN DUFFY (R-WI), MEMBER HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE: Thank you. COSTELLO: Thank you for being here. Congressman Duffy, the Department of Homeland Security protects the United States from terrorists' attacks. Some Senate Republicans, among them Lindsey Graham, say the strategy should be revised in light of what happened in Paris. So at this moment in time, why mess with that department?

DUFFY: We're not going to. We're going to fund homeland security, fully fund it, we're going to defund the president's executive action.

I mean, Carol, you have to understand that the president went with his executive memo for amnesty on his own. He didn't come to Congress, he didn't get our approval. And so now that he would come to the Congress and say now I want you to fund my executive action outside the role of Congress. And if you don't, I'm going to shut down the national security of the United States. It's kind of like I'm going to take my ball and go home unless do you what I want. The president has got a choice. Fund National Security. Homeland Security. Go with us on defunding the amnesty or he's going to shut down the security of the U.S.

COSTELLO: Congressman Thompson, do you think that Republicans are tying funding of the Department of Homeland Security to the immigration issue?

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMISSION: Well, there is no question. If they were not, we could have passed that bill in December when last Congress was in session. But Homeland Security's budget was held hostage for just a situation as this and that's unfortunate. Historically, we have had a very bipartisan committee and now this effort to put a pause on appeal of amendments to the Homeland Security bill makes it really difficult for people to support it. And this is what it's not about. It's about protecting the homeland. It's not about executive authority. And it's not even about picking on children who live in this country, who are legitimate. It's about making sure that the homeland is safe.

DUFFY: And Carol, the poison pill was actually the president who did executive amnesty on his own. The brilliance of ...

COSTELLO: But isn't there another way to fight this than using Homeland Security?

DUFFY: Remember the shutdown a year and a half ago, you talked about the power of the purse. Don't use the funding of the government. You said use the power of the purse in these fights. And per your own prior questions to me, we're using the power of the purse to say let's defend the homeland, but to think that you're going to come to Congress and say I didn't include you in this executive amnesty, but I want you to fund it, the president is out to lunch thinking we're going to do that. And if he wants to hold the security of the U.S. hostage for executive amnesty, which I would argue is unconstitutional, he's not on the side of the American people. Your own poll at CNN says that the American people agree with us that the president should go through the Congress. The dually elected representatives of our states and the districts to get this done the right way. COSTELLO: But I'm also sure that most Americans would want to fund

the Department of Homeland Security at this particular time in history.

DUFFY: No, but we are funding.

THOMPSON: And the question is, Carol, why add these egregious amendments to a straight up Homeland Security bill that all of us support? If you want to do immigration reform, let's bring in a free standing manner and I'm prepared like other members of Congress to debate it. There's no question. The president has executive authority to do what he's done. Ronald Reagan has done it. Both Bush presidents. All presidents have the authority to issue these executive amendments. So, clearly ...

COSTELLO: But you're saying that now I can understand why Congressman Duffy wants to use the power of the purse because you have no intention of changing your mind.

THOMPSON: Oh no. It's not changing your mind. It's just the president has the authority to do what he did. Now, if you disagree with it, then pass a bill, free standing bill, that doesn't have the riders on it.

DUFFY: But Carol, if I was to buy into that argument that the president has the authority, which I don't, but if I did, I would tell you that we in the Congress have the authority, the power of the purse how we spend the money. And to be clear we're funding Homeland Security. That will be funded. But we are not going to ...

COSTELLO: Through February.

DUFFY: ... fund the president's executive action. Which is all authority to do so, because we do have that power from ...

THOMPSON: Well, you funded that ...

COSTELLO: I want to ask you both -- I would like to ask you both - I'd like to ask you both about something else that's come up. I know I am glad you're standing together. It makes me feel good. I'd like to turn your attention to something else that's become kind of a controversy. The White House is refusing to call what happened in Paris an act of Islamic extremism.

Listen to Josh Earnest.

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JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have not chosen to use that label because it doesn't seems to accurately describe what happened. We also don't want to be in a situation where we are legitimatizing what we consider to be a completely illegitimate justification for this violence. This act of terrorism.

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COSTELLO: Congressman Duffy, do you agree with Josh Earnest?

DUFFY: As you can imagine I don't. I think we should be honest with our language and truthful with our language and call things for what they are. This is Islamic terrorism. And it's radical Islamic terrorism. And I think to separate the radicals from the good Muslims who don't agree in this kind of violence, I think is really important, but again these aren't Buddhist terrorists. They are not Christian terrorists, they are not secular terrorists. These truly are Muslims who are engaged in this kind of behavior and I think we should call it for what it is, Carol.

THOMPSON: Well I think --

COSTELLO: Congressman Thompson, why not call it for what it is?

THOMPSON: Well, it is an act of terrorism. And I don't want to get into the splitting of the hair. What these men did in France is unconscionable. We can't allow it. We have to fight it with every fiber in our body and that's why it's so important to fund the Department of Homeland Security. We can't defend this country helter- skelter until the end of February and then come back with a continuing resolution. This is not how you defend America.

What we're going to have to do is fully fund the Department of Homeland Security.

DUFFY: The truth of the matter, Carol, in language that the President uses but also the fact that we are funding Homeland Security. We are doing that. We're going to protect the homeland.

THOMPSON: Well, you funded it until the end of February.

COSTELLO: Until the end of February.

DUFFY: We fund it but we defund the executive amnesty which your viewers agree with.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Republican Congressman Sean Duffy of Wisconsin, Democratic Congressman Bennie Thompson of Mississippi -- thanks to you both.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM from bikini clad girlfriend to Jihad Jane. We'll find out why Western women like Hayat Boumediene are drawn to terror groups like ISIS.

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