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NEW DAY
Boko Haram Massacre Kills Thousands; Growing Threat of al Qaeda; Interview with Dr. Qanta Ahmed
Aired January 12, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Disturbing developments out of Nigeria. Police say explosives were strapped to a little girl, possibly as young as 10 years old, then detonated in a busy market. At least 20 people were killed in that attack. Allegedly the masterminds were Boko Haram. It came days after another massacre from the ground. That one may have killed thousands. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson joins us live from Nigeria.
It's almost too much to imagine, thousands of people dead in that massacre, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. I mean one eyewitness told us that Boko Haram came into the town, hundreds of them in trucks. He hid out by his house for three days hiding out, watching the killing, watching the looting, watching the burning going on. Boko Haram moved on to other towns and villages. He said when he walked out of there to escape, for three miles he passed bodies at the side of the road. Three thousand people, he estimated, could have been killed in this largest killing spree by Boko Haram so far.
And, unfortunately, this young 10-year-old female sort of human bomb, rather than suicide bomber, used by Boko Haram or apparently used by Boko Haram Saturday, not an isolated incident. On Sunday, yesterday, two young female suicide bombers, if you will, were used to target another market, in another town, not far away. What witnesses describe is these girls are more like human vehicles for bombs because they don't detonate them themselves, the bombs are exploded remotely, kill the girls and killing people in the surrounding area in these markets, Michaela.
PEREIRA: The brutality seems to know no bounds. My goodness, Nic, thank you for that.
All right, let's give you the five things that you need to know for your new day.
At number one, French police finding ISIS flags, atomic weapons and other evidence in a Paris apartment rented by the gunman who killed four hostages at a kosher grocery store.
Breaking news on the AirAsia Flight 8501 investigation. An official tells CNN that plane exploded after hitting the water based on debris patterns. Divers have retrieved the flight data recorder from the Java Sea. The cockpit reporter has been located but not yet retrieved.
Investigators have released this sketch of a man they believe may have detonated the bomb in front of the Colorado Springs chapter of the NAACP. They also announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in the case.
A wet, snowy morning for much of the northeast part of the U.S. A wintery mix making flights and morning commutes pretty messy from St. Louis all the way to New York.
College football's national champion will be crowned tonight in Dallas. The Ohio State Buckeyes play the Oregon ducks in the first college football playoff national title game. Who are you rooting for? We always update those five things to know, so be sure to visit newdaycnn.com for the latest.
Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Mic, officials have linked the terrorists involved in the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks to a powerful al Qaeda arm in Yemen. Who are they and how did they gain so much power so quickly? We'll give you the answers.
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CUOMO: So, as you know, officials were quick to link the terrorist attacks on "Charlie Hebdo" to AQAP, that's al Qaeda's arm in Yemen. Now, the group has terrorists the west numerous times in the last few years, from the attempted underwear bombing in 2009, to the stabbing of a member of British parliament. So, why do we keep hearing that al Qaeda has been gutted? Clearly it hasn't, although the U.S. did kill its leader, of course, in 2011, but the threat lives on. So what do we face specifically here at home.
Let's bring in Mike Rogers, CNN national security commentator, recently, as you know, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and Jim Sciutto, CNN national security correspondent.
Let's deal with the specific of the moment in Paris, Jim, with you. There is a big unknown. How big is this cell? Are there more people? We heard coming out of the kosher grocery that people were claiming there was another person inside, another shooter. They're looking for this woman, but now they think she couldn't have been in France at the time and, of course, the initial speculation that there was a third member at the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks. Where are the French in getting their hands around how many were involved?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You know, the fact is, Chris, the French still have a lot of hard questions to answer. You had the French prime minister today raising really a worrisome possibility. He says that it is very likely that there was another accomplice for the kosher market hostage taker. He didn't specify if that accomplice was likely to be his partner, who we now know traveled to Syria before the attacks, that is Hayat Boumeddiene, leaving open the possibility there was someone else. And I think the fact is, there is uncertainty here because you
remember, even in the moments during that hostage taking there, they were still - French police were still raising the possibility that Hayat Boumeddiene was inside that market, might have escaped in the confusion afterwards. As it turns out, since then we've learned actually she went to Turkey, then en route to Syria a number of days before. Listen, it shows the real difficulty in tracking individual people at any time. The same difficult we saw as they were trying to track the "Charlie Hebdo" attackers soon after the attack because they were chasing them around the country.
It's a hard thing to do. There is not certainty today. And that is one reason why you're seeing such a deployment of extra security force and police and the military around the country.
CUOMO: All right, and now -- thank you for that, Jim.
Now, Mike Rogers, let's deal with what gets even more difficult here, Mr. Chairman. The first part is that you're not dealing with Islam. This is not about a religion that is out to get everybody else. It's about a perversion of that faith. But that's a big barrier to entry, especially here in the U.S. As you well know, from your time in office, people have a phobia about Islam. We have to deal with that first. It's easy to find the people, the intel experts will tell you, who already are trying to be violent. It's, how do you deal with assessing the threat? How do you start there?
MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, I think there's two problems. I don't think you start there. There is an immediate security threat to the United States, to our allies in Europe. You have the deal with that first. One of the biggest recruiting tool they have is what radicals perceive as success in Syria, in Iraq. And we saw something earlier, Chris, that was troubling, that there seemed to be some connection, communication, some visiting between al Qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula and individuals on the ground in Syria. So that large safe haven was presenting an opportunity, not just for ISIS and their growth, but also al Nusra and al Qaeda affiliate, al Sham (ph) and al Qaeda affiliate and something they call the Khorasan group, which is a hard core group of veteran al Qaeda fighters. So you have to do both, I think, Chris. You have to start dealing with the economic issues, integration issues.
CUOMO: Right.
ROGERS: Europe does it very different than the United States. They tend to be more segregated than we are. But there's still this immediate problem that we're going to have to deal with, both Europe and the United States.
CUOMO: Absolutely. But the frightening reality is, chairman, that's the easy part. Dealing with people who are trying to kill you is hard. I'm not saying - we all know it's hard, right, because we -
ROGERS: I'm not sure that's that easy, but -
CUOMO: But we keep watching them, but at least you know who you're dealing with. These more intractable problems aren't going away, they're only spreading. When we look at the map at how these offshoot groups, Boko Haram, AQAP, and they're all moving ISIS, moving where, impoverished areas, sovereigns that are known for being totalitarian, that oppress their people. You have to deal with more than the military. When do we start doing that and how?
ROGERS: Well, again, you have to deal with this both at the same time. You have to have both of those conversations. Obviously I - you know, if you look at France, they have a segregation policy that is not even a policy. It is by self-selection in some cases, societal in others. They're going to have to start working to break down those barrier. Something that we don't necessarily have here in the United States. We tend to be more open, more inclusive. You have the opportunity to get education here. It doesn't always work, but we have presented those opportunities.
In France it's a little different. There are places in France where the police can't go. Where non-Muslims really don't feel safe and can't go. That's a huge problem that they're going to have to confront early on. Then you'll have this self-radicalization that I think you saw through their visits to AQAP, through some visits apparently to Syria, that they'll begin down that path of radicalization if they don't feel comfortable in their own adopted country of France. They're going to - they will have to have a unique set of problem solving issues to deal with that.
At the same time, they have an Algerian problem. Bel Maktar (ph) has clearly come out and said that he supported it and wants more of that to happen. He's the Algerian terrorist that took hostages at the natural gas facility in eastern Syria - excuse me, Algeria, that caused some problems and some deaths there. You do have 21 al Qaeda affiliates out there and about half of them have claimed support for ISIS. This is an interesting change in these groups allegiances and that means logistics, money and people, two problems you have to deal with at the same time.
CUOMO: Mike Rogers, thank you very much for the insight. Great to have you with us, chairman.
ROGERS: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: Jim Sciutto, thank you for doing all that reporting. And, of course, you've written a book that outlines many of these issues. A good read for people, especially now. Gentlemen, thank you very much.
Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, were the attacks in Paris the result of radical Islam? We will speak to a leading Muslim voice in the fight against terrorism about what she says is the root of the extremism.
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CAMEROTA: The city of Paris reeling from dual terror attacks and the motivation attributed to radical Islam. We spoke with doctor Dr. Qanta Ahmed, she's a leading voice in the fight against Islamic extremism and author of "In the Land of Invisible Women: A Female Doctor's in Saudi Arabia." She says it's time to label these attacks exactly what they are.
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CAMEROTA: You call the attack in Paris a wake up call for world leaders. What does that mean?
DR. QANTA AHMED, AUTHOR, "IN THE LAND OF INVISIBLE WOMEN": It's time for us to realize that there is a war, or a battle, on our values that are fundamental to secular pluralistic democracy. And central to those values are freedom of speech, and freedom of speech is intimately tied to freedom of religious identity and freedom of expression.
CAMEROTA: But you see this attack at the magazine as more than just an attack on freedom of speech. I mean, you say it's an attack on our way of life, it's an attack on secularism.
AHMED: Yes, it's - - These actions have occurred under false pretenses of policing or defending god, policing or defending Muhammad. In Islam, blasphemy itself is not a crime that a mortal judges on another mortal. If it is a crime at all, it is judged between man and his maker.
CAMEROTA: You label this, the terrorist, Islamists. What does that mean?
AHMED: Islamism is an ideology which is totalitarian. It actually seeks at it's primary focus to reorder the world in an artificial, fictional Islamic caliphate. There's nothing Islamic about it, but Islamists are pursuing that, and their concept of our current world order, the one that you and I live in and enjoy in, is that this is a Jewish, or Zionist, or tremendously evil, or destructive way of living. So they're seeking to change our actual existence, and the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks, while they were extremely shocking to us, are no different than the assault on Malala Yousafzai, who was attempted assassination because she wanted to bring education to children like her, education which is central to Islamic values, and also the assault on the army public school in Pakistan.
This is Islamists waging a way secularism in all of it's manifestations, whether its the girl's school in Pakistan, whether it's a boy's school in Pakistan, whether it's a vaccination program in Pakistan, or whether it's a French magazine publishing cartoons. These are not the values of Islam, but this is the politic of Islamism.
CAMEROTA: Let me play for you how Attorney General Eric Holder responded yesterday when he was asked if he agreed with the French president who said that we are at war with radical Islam. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I certainly think that we are at war with those who would commit terrorist attacks and who would corrupt the Islamic faith in the way that they do to try to justify their terrorist actions, so that's who we are at war with.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
CAMEROTA: He didn't want to give it a label. He didn't want to say who the terrorists are. Is it time to call them Islamists?
AHMED: I think the time to call them Islamists is long overdue, and even the term "radical Islam" is somehow deficient because that term "radical Islam" defames all my religion. Islamism is distinct and apart from Islam. However, it feeds off and parasitizes Islam, so this is a complicated idea. Islam is a religion, Islamism steals an artificial ideology from Islam, so it's actually - - corruption is a good word, but Islamism covers the whole ideology. And, remember, Islamism is not only violent, as we've seen in Paris, Islamism is non- violent and institutional. Prime example of that is the use of the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Conferences, to pursue international boundaries on the defamation of Islam, to legalize blasphemy in the international public space. That's not using violence, that's using institution, and that's a form of Islamism.
CAMEROTA: You have studied this for years, deeply. What is the answer? How can we change, or even fight, an ideology that sees things through such a different prism than we do?
AHMED: So that's a tremendous question, Alisyn, and I think the first thing is what you're doing here, is we're opening up the conversation and reclaiming words to describe what's happening. Our retreat from words and languages we've just seen in that clip only enables and strengthens Islamism. The other thing we need to do is expose the term Islamophobia. I'm against prejudice to any peoples of any belief on any basis, but Islamaphobia is a construct which aims to inoculate Islamism from scrutiny. The solution is scrutinization and relating to Muslims like me, millions the world over, that we understand the actions of the extremists in France were not Islamic, but they are Islamist. That's the place to start.
CAMEROTA: So we can't be afraid of having this conversation, be afraid of being labeled Islamaphobic. We need to have the conversation. Qanta Ahmed thanks so much for you expertise.
AHMED: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Good to talk to you.
AHMED: Thank you so much, Alisyn.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: Islam versus Islamist, a very important distinction and an important conversation to have. So, when we come back, Hollywood heavyweights, they took center stage at last night's Golden Globes. Tina Fey was there with her sidekick. They were great. What's her name again? We'll talk about it. The winners, the losers, the must-see moments. Amy Poehler was a test, you all pass.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PEREIRA: Oh, yes. The Golden Globes, known as Hollywood's biggest party and as a resplendence CNN's Stephanie Elam shows us it was a night to remember.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good effort. You have the Globes, too.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Oscars may be Hollywood's night, but the irreverent Golden Globes are the town's biggest party. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler hosting for the third and final time, skewered everyone from Bill Cosby - -
AMY POEHLER, ACTRESS: I have the pills in the bathroom but I (INAUDIBLE).
ELAM: - - to George Clooney who was there with his very accomplished wife, Amal Alamuddin.
TINA FEY, ACTRESS: Amal is a human rights lawyer, worked on the Enron case, was an advisor to Kofi Annan regarding Syria, and was selected for a three person U.N. commission investigating rules of war violations in the Gaza Strip. So tonight, her husband is getting a lifetime achievement award.
ELAM: The newly married lifetime achievement honoree accepted the prestigious award, acknowledging his bride.
GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: Amal, whatever alchemy it is that brought us together, I couldn't be more proud to be your husband.
ELAM: Real world events also taking main stage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Je suis Charlie
CLOONEY: Je suis Charlie.
ELAM: The Golden Globes saluted free speech, led by the president of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association.
THEO KINGMA, PRESIDENT, HOLLYWOOD FOREIGN PRESS ASSOCIATION: Together we will stand united against anyone who would repress free speech anywhere, from North Korea to Paris.
(APPLAUSE)
ELAM: There were, of course, awards. The coming of age film "Boyhood" won three trophies, best director, best supporting actress, and best drama. In the comedy-musical categories, "The Grand Budapest Hotel" won best picture while the transgender themed "Transparents" took best TV series and best actor for Jeffrey Tambor who dedicated his award to the transgender community.
JEFFREY TAMBOR, ACTOR: Thank you for your courage, thank you for your inspiration, thank you for your patience, and thank you for letting us be a part of the change. ELAM: Surprise presenter Prince drew big cheers before announcing best
song went to Common and John Legend for "Glory" from the civil rights drama, "Selma."
COMMON, BEST ORIGINAL SONG, "GLORY" FROM "SELMA": I am the unarmed black kid who maybe needed a hand, but instead was given a bullet. I am the two fallen police officers murdered in the line of duty. "Selma" has awakened my humanity.
ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PEREIRA: So far, from what we can tell and from what Steph says, Amy and Tina were well-received as hosts. Great show, a lot of fun, and a lot of news-worthyness to it, too, as well.
CAMEROTA: Yes. They were fun. This is more laid back than the Academy Awards.
PEREIRA: It's the show to go to.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PEREIRA: It's a party.
CUOMO: It doesn't take itself as seriously, but the movies are very serious.
PEREIRA: Absolutely.
CUOMO: You heard COMMON talking there. I don't think Amy and Tina will be able to not do it again.
CAMEROTA: Really? Back by popular demand?
PEREIRA: I would love - -
CUOMO: Too good.
PEREIRA: I support it.
CUOMO: Too good.
PEREIRA: And, of course, don't forget on Thursday we'll have the Oscar nominations, they'll be announced. We'll bring that to you. Tell us what you think on social media, love to hear from you.
CUOMO: A lot of news this morning, right to the "NEWSROOM" with Ms. Carol Costello. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks so much. NEWSROOM starts now.
