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Coverage Of French Terror Attacks; Audio from Inside Kosher Market Attack In France; AirAsia Crash Update

Aired January 10, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brianna Keilar in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto in Paris.

Welcome to our international coverage of events in France.

Word today from the Paris terror investigation that French authorities were watching one of the brothers who attacked that magazine office on Wednesday, and were watching him for years. But they lost interest. Several French officials told a reporter there that Said Kouachi was under government surveillance from 2011 until June of just last year. That was after he returned to Paris after allegedly going through terrorist training in Yemen.

U.S. and French officials believe the Kouachi brothers both traveled to Yemen on separate trips. Police officers throughout France tonight are being told to carry their weapons with them around the clock, because they believe terrorist sleeper cells may have been activated since the attacks and hostage-taking incidents of the past few days.

Tomorrow in Paris, a massive rally is planned to show the world's solidarity with France. Israeli prime minister, the Palestinian president, Jordan's king, leaders from all over Europe, they will join many other world leaders at that rally -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Jim. Thank you so much. We'll be right back to you in Paris in just a moment.

But first, this female terror suspect who has been the object of so much attention personally knew the two brothers who massacred a dozen people at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. She talked on the phone 500 times with the younger brother's wife last year.

Our Atika Shubert has brand-new details about the suspect's life in Paris before she fled.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Amedy Coulibaly gone down four people and took hostages at the kosher supermarket, police immediately issued this arrest warrant for him and his partner Hayat Boumeddiene, suggesting she had been alongside her husband for the attack. Police said she was armed and dangerous. France's public prosecutor linked the couple to the attackers at

"Charlie Hebdo."

FRANCOIS MOULINS, PARIS PUBLIC PROSECUTOR (through translator): It appears from the investigation, especially from phone taps, that Cherif Kouachi's spouse had called 500 times Amedy Coulibaly's partner, Hayat Boumeddiene, which shows permanent and strong links between the couples.

SHUBERT (on camera): This is where Amedy Coulibaly and Hayat Boumeddiene were living. It's about a 10-minute drive to Montrouge, that is where Coulibaly is believed to have gunned down that police officer, and 20 minutes from the kosher supermarket where he took hostages.

Now, police are still inside the apartment investigating.

(voice-over): Their names are clearly printed on their mailbox, and armed police still stake out the couple's apartment. Photos of Boumeddiene in 2010 quickly surfaced, showing her in full niqab, armed with a crossbow. Court records showed she and her boyfriend had met with a top al Qaeda recruiter.

But now, as the investigation widens, it appears Boumeddiene was not even in France at the time of the shooting. Turkish officials say she arrived January 2 in Istanbul, most likely destined for Syria. French security sources agree.

And that's not the first dead end. Initially, police named three suspects in the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, including an 18-year-old named Hamyd Mourad, but friends of Mourad insisted to CNN that he was innocent, in school at the time of the attack, more than 100 miles away, an alibi police later confirmed after Mourad voluntarily turned himself in. Saturday, he was released.

In a rush to find the attackers, French police cast a wide net. But investigators are still seeking answers from anyone who may have been involved in France or abroad, including Hayat Boumeddiene.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, professor Jonathan Laurence from Boston College. He's with me here in Paris. Terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, he's in Washington. And CNN national security analyst Bob Baer, he's in Telluride, Colorado.

We have many developments, one being a new terror alert in France tonight, threats against police, terror cells activated. We also have more information now that the woman, the remaining living suspect in these attacks, has, in fact, left the country.

I want to start, if I can, with you, Bob. Just for our viewers or maybe just learning about this new terror warning tonight. To put that in context and to give your view as to how significant it is and how difficult it will be for France -- for French authorities to stop this new threat against police across the country.

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Jim, first of all, I mean, the French don't put out alerts like this unless they believe them. But there is also a combination of panic, because this attack, a military style attack on Paris, came as a surprise to them. So, they're -- they know they're in the dark of the size of the cell and if there are other cells out there.

But if these people are well-trained in arms and in combat, and a lot of them are. Hundreds of Frenchmen have gone to Syria and Iraq and fought there and are coming home. There is not much defense. If you've got a side arm, you know, there's nothing you can do about it. Someone walks up to you and assassinates you.

So, the French, you have to travel in groups, just like the attack on the New York City police with the guy with the hatchet. They are very vulnerable and they're very aware it.

SCIUTTO: And New York City police have enacted their own new practices to prevent attacks like that.

Paul, I wonder if I can ask you, because the other major development today is word that Hayat Boumeddiene, a lot of theories yesterday, was she in that kosher market with her partner, as it was underway? Was she still in the country? Was there a manhunt?

Now, we find that she is in turkey, in fact, and was last identified by the Turkish authorities as on her way to the Syrian border. How important is finding her, not only to investigating the past attacks, but to preventing more attacks going forward?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Jim, it may simply be too late. She might have already crossed into Syria. This group of extremists in France which she was part of, have friends who have gone off to fight in Syria. We know that from the Paris prosecutor.

They're likely to have a network over there. She may have some help in terms of getting across the border. And I think it's quite plausible that she left France so that she wouldn't be arrested, she didn't want to participate in this attack but has some foreknowledge.

It appears that she was approaching the Syria border or even crossing over it on the 8th of January, the same day her companion in France shot that French female police officer in southern Paris.

SCIUTTO: Jonathan, American viewers may not know this, but France is a very large Muslim population. I believe the number is about 5 million out of 50 million, is that right? About one in 10?

JONATHAN LAURENCE, BOSTON COLLEGE: About 5 million to 6 million out of 62 million.

SCIUTTO: So, is there -- there has been criticism the Muslim community here less integrated than in the U.S. a bit more insular. The community is more divided from the wider population and also some economic challenges in that community. Does that help -- does that division help seed extremism, or at least lay the groundwork to make of these angry young men, for lack of a better word, more easy targets for extremist groups?

LAURENCE: Well, the last point you made about the economic situation, I think, is very important. The main distinction between French Muslims and American Muslims is that the French ones came here under very different circumstances, as workers, their parents, their grandparents came here to help rebuild France after the Second World War. And as such, were mostly manual laborers, not necessarily from a high-education background. That's the opposite situation of the United States where the average Muslim is better educated and earns more.

So, the situation in the Banlieues, which are the outskirts of the major French cities is at times very precarious for these young men at a time when the economy is suffering. And that in itself, of course, does not make someone vulnerable. But the fact is that other aspects, including difficult political integration, difficulty expressing religious life as a Muslim in France could add to that feeling of alienation.

SCIUTTO: Feeling, did they have a future. And that feeling of alienation is certainly not confined to the West, because that's a measure issue in Middle Eastern countries, lack of opportunity that those countries will cite as well as laying the ground work for temptation to go into extremism.

Bob, I wonder, just speaking about the relationship between authorities and the Muslim community and the U.S., there has been, you know -- there have been many cases of resentment from Muslim communities for feeling targeted, unfairly targeted, they would say, for surveillance, et cetera. Have U.S. authorities gotten that balance right, particularly now as there is a new effort at outreach to enlist Muslim communities in helping identify potential recruits to extremism?

BAER: Jim, you know, what we're seeing in the United States is after 9/11, there was a considerable panic. And there was profiling of Muslims in this country. But we soon learned that we weren't getting all that good information, and there's been a real outreach to bring in Muslim officers into the FBI, the CIA, and go out and contact these communities and approach them in a very polite and in a way that is acceptable to them.

But in no way has there been any sort of over prejudice I've seen. I think we have done a better job at it. And we certainly are closer -- our police are to the Muslim communities than the French are to the North African of origin Muslims in Paris. You know, you go to these suburbs, and the police, as we have just said, are frozen out. And it's very difficult for them to get sources and to really understand what's happening in these slums, and which makes it much more difficult, the French, to solve this problem.

SCIUTTO: Each community facing its own challenges, certainly.

Jonathan, Bob Baer, Paul Cruickshank, thanks for joining. Brianna, back to you in New York.

KEILAR: All right. Thanks, Jim.

Leaders around the world are heading to Paris tomorrow to participate in that unity rally in the march. What's being done to keep them and the hundreds of thousands of other people who may show up safe? We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: More than 1 million people are expected to take part in tomorrow's unity rally and march in Paris. And more than two dozen key world leaders will be joining them.

Among them, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Also expected to attend, Britain's prime minister, David Cameron. German Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas will also be attending, and Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu from Turkey. Noticeably absent from that list is President Barack Obama. U.S. ambassador to France Jane Hartley will be attending in his place.

And let's get back now to Paris, where Jim Sciutto is live for us with the very latest -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, Brianna, as you know, the stakes so high. Terror sleeper cells may be lurking while world leaders attend an outdoor unity rally here. How can police keep tomorrow's event safe while keeping the city safe from this new alert that we have been reporting tonight, targeting police? Word that sleeper cells may have been activated and French police warning all of their members to keep their weapons at hand, to erase their social media profiles, to reduce that threat.

My panel here to discuss it. We're going to start with Boston College associate professor Jonathan Laurence. He is author of "The Emancipation of Europe's Muslims." And CNN political commentator, Tara Setmayer.

Jonathan, with you next to me here, if we could start with you. How does this city -- how have you seen this city and this country responding so far to these attacks? Defiance, I think, is the best word to describe it.

LAURENCE: Defiance is right. The sense that I got walking around the city in the first couple days afterwards, were that there was a refusal to change the way of life. But on the other hand, people are very serious about what comes next. And they're very scared about what comes next, because the political class is divided about how to approach this question and whether or not the country is at war with radical Islam or not.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's interesting. So many parts of the community are worried what comes next. Certainly the Muslim community worried about retribution. They've already been attacks on mosques, on kebab shops in the Jewish community, concern about continuing terror threat. And I think all of France worried about a threat to its identity as a diverse place.

You may not be able to see, but on the Arc de Triomphe that's behind me, at the very top in lights is written "Paris est Charlie", just a variation on "Ju Seis Charlie" hashtag and statements that has been one we have seen so common.

Tara, if I could ask you, we're seeing really an incredible list of world leaders joining tomorrow the German chancellor, the British prime minister, the king of Jordan, the Turkish prime minister, European leaders, Muslim leaders from the Middle East.

So far, no word that the American president is coming. Do you think that's a mistake?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not necessarily. I think given the fact that you still have a heightened terror threat going on there, security is a nightmare. Anyone who knows when the president travels, particularly internationally, it is quite a production event.

So, I think that it's -- the president has come out and said he stands with France. I think people would probably have liked to have seen the president there to show solidarity. But I can understand why, given the time frame, how quickly the turn-around is. Why the president would not go over there, given how the situation still seems to be somewhat fluid.

SCIUTTO: There is a report the attorney general, Eric Holder, has arrived in Paris, that from the AFP. We don't have that confirmed ourselves. So, it is possible you would still have a senior American leader joining here.

Jonathan, just as we talk about the motivation for this showing of both defiance, but also unity tomorrow, is really fear, because there is a substantial fear here about division in France.

How does it maintain that character of diversity when it has, you know, this fear, one of terrorism, which has bred and sort of opened up an existing discrimination that has fueled extremist -- there is no better word I think than extremist for some of the parties operating and getting a good percentage of the vote in national elections.

How do you -- how does a march like tomorrow's continue beyond just being a one-day event to solve that problem, to try to put a cap on that tension?

LAURENCE: Well, France had an extremely difficult 2014. It started off with attacks on Jews following the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We had an attack by a Frenchman against Jews in Brussels. We had another attack on Jews in the outskirts of Paris.

The unity of the country is being threatened. But it is a multicultural country and it's used to being a multicultural country. France was an empire which governed millions of Muslims at one time. They're not foreign to the concept of having a diverse population. They prize their citizenship as the sign of their national unity. And they want everyone to identify as a Frenchman first. And that's where some of the tension comes from --

SCIUTTO: Sure.

LAURENCE: -- because people have multiple identities. And they want to be able to claim each of them.

SCIUTTO: Right. That constant tension between multiculturalism and unity, how do you keep that individual cultural identity while being part of the country? It's something we faced in the U.S., no question France faces and other European countries face it, as well.

Jonathan, thanks for helping explain that to our viewers and thanks very much, Tess, for joining us in New York.

Brianna, just an incredible discussion of the tensions that are going on here, but exist as well in the U.S. a challenge for American leaders, American law enforcement, politicians and really just for the American public, as well going forward.

KEILAR: Yes. Challenge around the world, really. Jim Sciutto in Paris, thanks very much.

And let's talk about what investigators are trying to piece together here as they look into the past of these suspects. They're trying to figure out which groups they may have been affiliated with, and also how they fell off the radar when they were once on it. We'll have more in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: As the investigation into the Paris attacks continues tonight, there is mounting evidence it is linked to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula based in Yemen. Intelligence officials are looking for evidence the Kouachi brothers received training in Yemen, and there's also a reported claim which CNN cannot verify that AQAP says it orchestrated the attack on "Charlie Hebdo."

The government of Yemen says it has launched an investigation into a possible link between the two. So, let's focus on the potential links here to Yemen.

I'm joined now by Bob Baer and Paul Cruickshank, for this discussion, and we also have a former jihadist Mubin Shaikh.

Bob, I wonder, is Yemen to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula now what Afghanistan was to al Qaeda during the late '90s and the early 2000s?

BAER: I think it appears that way. I think that they're so chaotic in the tribal areas of Pakistan with the Taliban fragmenting and all the drone attacks that they have simply got up and moved what's left of al Qaeda.

This organization metastasized into something else and I think that's what we're seeing the result of in Paris. And clearly in Yemen, it's a place you can hide. It's off the political map. It's a country that's on the verge of a civil war, if not a civil war between the Shia and Sunni. It's a good place for them to hide and plan attacks like this.

KEILAR: So, Mubin, is that what we have seen, is that al Qaeda has essentially or its affiliates have just figured out the place where they can have more free reign, despite obviously some deterrence from the Yemeni government and also from drone attacks in the past? But they just decided this is the place where they can best cultivate terrorists?

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Yes, Yemen has been -- as, of course, Bob has been saying -- Yemen has been a hot spot for a long time, lends itself to have these kind of people active. They have been active. They're making magazines from there, and they have been putting this material out for a number of years. Some even saying that, listen, we even put clues in our latest "Inspire", number 13 edition of their magazine that al Awlaki made.

And as you were saying, the older brother Said Kouachi, we know he trained with al Qaeda in Yemen, you know, conducted their close- quarter combats, urban operations. So, we -- Yemen has been like this for a long time. This is just yet another consequence of it.

KEILAR: So Paul, is this -- what happens here? If Yemen -- first off, is Yemen capable of really tackling this issue? They're launching an investigation here. How successful can that investigation be, and how is Yemen in a place to eradicate terrorism?

CRUICKSHANK: Short answer is, they're not very capable at all right now, because the Houthis, the Shias have taken over the capital and much of the tribal area. So, this is a country in absolute chaos, not quite clear who is in charge. All their focus is on that domestic turmoil, those domestic political issues.

And al Qaeda and Yemen has been able to profit from this, and also profit from this sectarianism by appealing to Sunni tribals, and they're getting more and more recruits and they're getting control of more and more areas of Yemen, getting stronger again. So, this is a real problem area in Yemen, just like Syria and Iraq is.

KEILAR: So, then, Mubin, when you look at this, do you expect that since we just heard, if you agree with what Paul said, that Yemen is not really in a place to counter this, that this is going to be a safe haven for a long time for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or do you think eventually it could be pushed out, but it's just going to find -- al Qaeda will just find another place to make its home?

SHAIKH: It's been a base for many years. It and other places near it. They have tentacles that reach into Saudi Arabia. You can see the North African groups, of course, in Mali, we saw what was happening in Maghreb, al Qaeda in the Maghreb.

Each of these al Qaeda, it's like an organism, each one acting on its own, self-activating were required, running its own sleeper cells. They're sometimes almost trying to outdo one another. So it's been a base for a long time, and it's not going to go away any time soon, that's for sure.

KEILAR: And Bob, it's not going away, but it's also something that the Obama administration has said is a key success story in the battle against al Qaeda, against terrorism. Is it a success story? Are we seeing that sort of fall back on itself? Was it ever a success story?

BAER: Oh, it was never a success story. I mean, you know, yes, we assess al Awlaki, a few successful drone attacks. We hit mid levels of the organization.

But ultimately, you know, short of an invasion of Yemen, we can't get rid of this group. They live in very remote areas in the mountains. I've dealt with the Yemenis over the years. And even back in the '70s and '80s, they couldn't control the countryside.

We're not about to do it with drones. And so, no, it hasn't been a success. And there's -- you know. But on the other hand, there is frankly not much we can do about it. When is the last time Yemen has been invaded successfully? Hundreds of years ago. So, I'm not telling you there is an easy solution.

KEILAR: All right, Bob. Thank you so much. Paul Cruickshank, as well. Thank you so much. And Mubin Shaikh, appreciate you being with us to have this talk.

And while France mourns, the rest of us are waiting and wondering, could the U.S. be next? What is to stop a terrorist from making the U.S. his next target? We have that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: One of the biggest concerns for law enforcement is how to protect soft targets from terrorists. These are places that you and I go to every day. Malls, offices, restaurants, sporting events. Their vulnerabilities were exposed when the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre occurred this week and the attack at a cafe in Sydney last month.

CNN national security commentator and former House Intelligence committee chairman Mike Rogers explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FMR. REP. MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: We know that in places like Syria and Iraq with ISIS members that they're encouraged to either stay home in a place like France or go back home to a place like France to conduct terrorist activity. It's very, very difficult. There are thousands of individuals, we believe, from all over Europe and the United States, by the way, Canada and Australia, who have traveled to Syria and come out.

It's hard to say that it's a failure if they don't get everything exactly right. What it was is that we just didn't catch up in time to this individual plot. I've been concerned when I was chairman, I'm still concerned today, that the sheer volume of those possibilities are just one plane ticket away. They fight in Syria for some determinant period of time, they become more radicalized, they have combat experience, they go back to their home country somewhere in Europe and they decide they want to conduct an attack in the United States. They buy an airplane ticket and come here.

And if the intelligence services don't catch them coming in or out of a theatre of battle like Syria and Iraq, then they're going to be allowed to come back to the United States. That's very, very concerning. And Canada, it is a matter of time before something like that happens in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Mike Rogers there saying it is a matter of time. And the prospect of an attack on U.S. soil is especially pertinent, given word that terror cells have been activated in France. Rejoining me now, Mubin Sheikh and we're also with Tara Setmayer and we're bringing in CNN global affairs analyst Lt. Col. James Reese, who is a retired Delta Force army officer, and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck who also runs Houck consulting.com.

Mubin, how important is it for ISIS or for Al Qaeda to strike on U.S. soil, and what do we make of this activation of terror cells?

MUBIN SHEIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Of course. The idea of sending in professional operators to do or semi professional operators to do this kind of work, of course, people were nit-picking over - me included - this wasn't perfect, this wasn't perfect here. But they achieved the objective.

The objective is to terrorize the public. In this particular case, it was a targeted killing, not so much a random mass civilian attack like let's say Sydney, hostage-taking. This is something more what ISIS would do.

With respect to the U.S., the U.S. is the prime target. I mean, this is - you know, for jihadi groups especially competing with one another, the group that can conduct the attack in the U.S., that's the one that's going to score the most points.

KEILAR: And, you know, we just learned, Harry, that this - I think this is the thing that really is sort of unbelievable to some people.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Right.

KEILAR: The brothers were under surveillance for about three years, and then just six months ago, they - the French authorities stop having them under surveillance.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Right.

KEILAR: Why is that? And is it time, really, to, I guess, revisit how people like this are monitored?

HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, you know, I would like to know what surveillance really means? Are they being watched 24/7? For a certain period of time? Were they watched 24/7 for three years? I really doubt that. Because you don't have the money and the resources available to watch.

KEILAR: They're checking in on them, you would expect.

HOUCK: Right. I would say, you know, they go check on the brothers today, and spend 24, 48 hours with them and then come back and see nothing suspicious at all.

KEILAR: Do you think, Colonel, that if we're talking about someone like the Kouachi brothers and Coulibaly here, these are individuals who would I guess raise more red flags than other potential suspects in France? Do you think that perhaps a ball was dropped here, or is this just the reality, as we heard Mike Rogers talking about, you can only do so much with so little?

LT. COL. JAMES HEESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Brianna, unfortunately, this is the realities of life. And what happens in these ops intelligence fusion centers that are tracking these people, is people become a priority, they fall down the priority list. They go up the priority, they go back down the priority list, based on the chatter and what they're seeing.

One of the things we might want to look at is just - like these guys, they were arrested. We knew they went to Yemen. They came back. Maybe it needs to be a point where, hey, we're going to tell you we're monitoring you just like, you know, some folks who get tried here in the United States. We're going to monitor you overtly, just to make sure you're not doing anything.

KEILAR: Tara, one of the arguments against closing Guantanamo Bay you'll hear, some people who want to keep it open they'll say recidivism. You're putting people back on the battlefield. They're going to go forth and even create even more terrorists. Does this - what happened in France, does this go against the argument for closing Gitmo?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, sure. I mean, people who want to close Gitmo are clearly underestimating the nature of our enemy here. In the recidivism rate of people we have released from Gitmo is close to 20 percent. This is - this is insanity to think at a time like this when the resolve of our enemy is obviously clear, that the United States will show weakness. We do this in the name of political correctness. We don't want to offend anyone. We don't want to say radical Islam.

I mean it pains the president of the United States to even say the words, "radical Islamic terrorists are responsible for these heinous attacks." and you see that in policy. Just look right here in New York City where the new mayor of New York decided to pull back on a Muslim surveillance program, an intelligence program that was going on here in New York, which made absolute sense. If you need to gather intelligence, these are the people we need to watch and pay attention to what's going on. What are we doing, pulling back at a time where you see - UNIDENTIFED MALE: Can I respond to that?

SETMAYER: Boca haram and other places and other terrorist organizations like that, strengthening and the U.S. is the number one target. It makes no sense. Political correctness.

KEILAR: And just quickly, a final - was that you - was that - who wanted to respond?

SHEIKH: Mubin. Just to the Muslim surveillance thing.

KEILAR: Mubin, you go ahead and respond to that.

SHEIKH: Yes, I understand the frustration. I mean, definitely, this is deviant Islamic ideology. This is what we would call it as Muslims. The prophet talked about this group, this kind of extremists, called them the dogs of hell. So I condemn it from the Islamic perspective.

So, yes, it is a religious terrorist offense. But the surveillance part of it, let's just be realistic and utilitarian as your other guests have also mentioned and they know just as the same. You physically can't survail everyone. And especially in New York, we know that I don't think there's even one terrorism case that was prevented because of that. It's not mass surveillance. It's targeted surveillance.

KEILAR: Yes and you certainly speak to that in your book. I believe it's called "Under Cover Jihadi." Am I correct in that? "Undercover Jihadi."

SHEIKH: Yes, thank you for that.

KEILAR: Sorry, go ahead, Harry, real quick.

HOUCK: It's almost like if we close Guantanamo tomorrow, then we would never be attacked again. The thought process behind that is totally insane.

KEILAR: Yes and we're going to continue this conversation after the break, guys. Just stick with me. We have some new audio from inside the grocery store while it was under siege. We will play it for you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Paris. And we have something just in. Remarkable video from inside the kosher market in eastern Paris during the hostage standoff. I should say, it's audio, not video. You hear the voice of Amedy Coulibaly. He is the man who took that store hostage, in fact killed four of the hostages himself. What happened here is a reporter called the land line inside the market, Coulibaly apparently picked up the phone, refused to speak, but that phone was left on the line.

The reporter recorded what he heard from inside the store. What you hear inside the store is then the attacker conversing with the hostages, telling them why he took them hostage and justifying his acts of violence. You're going to hear that audio right now. Let's have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: (SPEAKING IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Just remarkable audio there. You're hearing the voice of a terrorist. This is the terrorist, Amedy Coulibaly, who took that kosher market hostage. This is him speaking to his hostages during the attack while police encircled it, and explaining his justification for the attack. Really remarkable to hear a window inside that kosher market in the midst of terror, really.

I'm joined now by our panel, CIA analyst, Bob Baer, former jihadi, Mubin Sheikh, Lt. Col. James Reese, he's a former commander of the U.S. Army delta force and we also have former NYPD detective, Harry Houck. I wonder if I could begin with you, Mubin. What I hear in his voice is a few things.

One, he tries to justify his attack. Blaming his hostages, saying that because they pay taxes to the French government, that they are responsible for killing babies in Syria, because France taking part in the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS there, using that as justification and blame for them.

The other thing I heard from him was just his confidence, and it's interesting. I've interviewed former jihadis and current jihadis before. And I remember that that sort of sense of confidence, the sense that they are very right, no questioning about their justification. I wonder if you could explain that motivation and that mind-set.

SHEIKH: It's a good catch with that. This is part of the ideology, this ideology, declaring others as infidels or not believers, or not believers enough. So for example, this is probably the same guy who believes that voting is considered associating partners to god, because only god can legislate, and humans can't legislate, so if you do that, you're making yourself like god.

So very similar thinking. This is how they justify attacking civilians. Civilians are not considered to be separate from the political class or military class or they're considered just to be everyone. There's no distinction between civilian and non-combatant and everyone becomes a combatant, as far as they're concerned.

SCIUTTO: Incredible to hear that testimonial right from inside there as - as this hostage-taking is under way. Colonel Jim Reese, I wonder if I could ask you - so you have this audio from inside that store. For the security forces who were outside, could they have gleaned any information that would have helped them as they prepared for their operation, as they prepared and just recorded just a short time before those security forces, would they have gleaned any intelligence from that, that would help them - mind-set, anything else in terms of hostages for resolving this peacefully and safely?

REESE: Jim, good evening, and yes, absolutely. Every type of information we can get on a target site before we go on there to initiate that assault gives us something. It lets us know, you know - what I took, as you said - he sounded very confident, but he also was speaking very quickly which means he was amped up. So we know if we're going in, you've got a guy who is in there, he's amped up. And the key thing was, he wasn't talking about anyone else. He wasn't having anyone else speaking, so that might have directed us to, hey, maybe there is only one person in here, and we have to take this target down very quickly to find this guy and make sure he doesn't blend in.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. Very interesting. Because, of course, at the time there were questions. French police wondering, theorizing that perhaps his partner Hayat Bomeddiene, who now has turned out, had left France days before and on her way to the Syrian border, there was talk that she might have been in there.

Bob Baer, listening to that, what do you hear? That justification that he's giving for these attacks for terrorism is a familiar one.

BAER: It's very familiar. I've spent a lot of time in Israeli prisons interviewing Hamas suicide bomber networks. And they said the same thing about killing Israeli women and children, saying that, look, they pay taxes, they're going to grow up to be soldiers. They're as guilty as the people in uniform. So that's a very common, simplistic argument for killing civilians.

But what struck me about it was his accent. He's clearly French. This is not a foreigner who has come to France and hasn't been integrated. He went through the French school system. He spoke in the vernacular. And that's what's particularly disturbing for the French. It's one of their own who turned on them and identified themselves with Islam rather than France and that should be disturbing for anybody.

SCIUTTO: And you know this justification, it crosses a number of terror groups during that attack. You'll remember last month in Pakistan, the Pakistani Taliban assaulted that school, and justified killing the children there by saying they were studying to become soldiers, and some they would be soldiers.

Harry Houck, there was another haunting thing he said, Amedy Coulibaly, he said that there were more Muslim attackers coming to France and that they should be prepared for it. Now there's a lot of intelligence that speaks to that. So you've been with the NYPD, which certainly has its own terror threat. What should the French police - what do you expect the French police are doing right now to prevent another attack?

HOUCK: Well, I'd probably say that they're now doubling their efforts after this attack. We've got threats of an attack, we've got information from that terrorist that more is coming. So they need to double, maybe even triple their efforts now.

SCIUTTO: And that's what they say they're doing. They're deploying more soldiers, in fact, military as well as police on the streets. And they have a tremendous challenge tomorrow, a massive parade of unity tomorrow, including world leaders. That will be a tremendous challenge for security forces.

(INAUDIBLE) our panel now - Harry? Go ahead, you have one more thing to say.

HOUCK: Well, one of the thing - they're going to have to go into these no-go zones and take over again. That's very important. If they don't do that, they're going to find themselves even more vulnerable.

SCIUTTO: (INAUDIBLE) describing those earlier (INAUDIBLE) Muslim neighbourhoods where you say French police considered sort of off- limits to them, so to speak. Harry Houck, NYPD, former NYPD, I should say, thanks for joining us. James Reese, former Delta Force commander, Bob Baer, former CIA analyst. Thanks to all of you for joining us.

Please stay with us. We'll be right back after this break.

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KEILAR: Well, we'll be back to Jim Sciutto in Paris with the latest on the terror attacks.

First though, a significant development in the Air Asia Flight 8501 crash that killed 162 people last month. The chief investigator tells CNN the flight data recorders were likely to be found "in a few days." He says small boats picked up several pings emanating about 500 meters from where from the jet's tail was found. And joining me now to talk about this is CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.

So two things here that sort of strike me as important. They found part of the tail, but the black boxes, which are normally in the tail, aren't there. So what does that tell us?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, on this particular aircraft, the A-320, the black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder are actually a little bit more forward than on some aircraft. They're actually attached to the pressure bulkhead. So there's a little bit of distance between the tail which was being recovered and the boxes themselves. So, if they, obviously the tail broke off, they must be in some reasonable proximity unless the aircraft broke up in flight which we haven't - we're not certain about yet but indications are it probably broke when it hit the surface.

KEILAR: Peter, this is what's sort of - I wonder what to make of this. Several pings. Several. And yet you would think the black boxes would be kind of close to this tail part that was found. Just several pings, does that that necessarily even mean it's even the pinger?

O'BRIEN: You know, I think ever since MH-370 and we heard about pings being heard, we hang on to our wallets, won't we? Now there's a lot, it's not an exact science there's a lot -- it's not an exact science. It's actually very low, it's actually very low technology but harping on it and quite a bit on this day and age. Why we don't stream real data out of this aircraft when they're in trouble is beyond me. KEILAR: It's about why it's five or 10 years away, we just don't kind

of don't understand that. This, what we're hearing from these officials, it's going to be found in a few days? Is that overly- confident?

O'BRIEN: Well, I think in this case, we're obviously in a hay stack. Whereas with MH-370 we still don't know where it is.

KEILAR: No I don't.

O'BRIEN: I think if we try to extrapolate what happened with MH370 (INAUDIBLE) I think those boxes will be found, pings or not, before two days.

KEILAR: OK. We sure hope so.

Miles O'Brien, thank you so much as always. Good to talk to you.

And we have brand new audio from one of the hostage takers before he was killed by police in France. Hear the motive behind the attacks next.

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KEILAR: I'll be joined in just a moment by Jim Sciutto in Paris as we get him hooked up there. We're going to continue our special coverage of the French terror attacks. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.