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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Start of the 114th Congress; Hunt Continues for Man who Shot New York Police Officers

Aired January 6, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE LEAD": Then you're only -

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: So there's not going to really be a serious challenge to Nancy Pelosi at all?

TAPPER: No, not at all.

BLITZER: And there won't be a challenge to Harry Reid as the minority leader in the U.S. Senate?

TAPPER: Once again, there are Senate Democrats who would like to see new leadership and yet they don't have the votes and they don't have the power and people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi got to where they are by wielding power effectively.

BLITZER: Even though the Democrats in the Senate suffered, the Democrats in the House suffered, they will remain the leaders with no significant opposition at all?

TAPPER: That's exactly right. And I think one of the challenges for John Boehner going forward, by the way, is the fact that the Senate is now controlled by Republicans. That actually means -- because the Senate is the cooling saucer, as they say, of legislature, where things that are hot in the House go to be cooled off. There's going to be a lot more tendency for bipartisan compromise in the Senate. Is that going to hurt Boehner or help Boehner? That's the question going forward, especially with all these Republicans who don't want to compromise.

BLITZER: All right, take a look at this, Jake. We've got pictures of the Senate and the pictures of the House of Representatives. They're getting ready for the start of this 114th Congress. It's an important day. The Republicans would not only be the majority in the House of Representatives, but they will be the majority in the U.S. Senate as well.

I want to bring in Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent, and Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst. Dana's on the House side. Gloria's on the Senate side.

Set the scene for us, Dana, first of all. What's about to happen on the floor of the House of Representatives?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the new House will come in and get sworn in and then probably about 40 minutes later the drama will ensue that you and Jake were just talking about, the vote for House speaker. And I can just sort of give you a sense of the vibe here. There's a lot of suspense. There's always kind of that feeling, that first day of school feeling on the first day of the new Congress. You have a lot of people who have never been here before. In fact, in the House, there are about 61 new members of Congress, which is pretty high. You have their families. You have their friends. So you have that feel here.

But underlying that is some tension. Down the hall right behind me is the House speaker's office. And we have seen rank-and-file members of the Republican Party kind of going in and out. I just talked to one, Raul Labrador (ph), who just walked by me moments ago and I said, are you going to vote for John Boehner as speaker? And he said, I haven't decided yet. He is a member of that - of the Tea Party and came in with that class. So that kind of gives you a sense of where things are.

The thing to keep in mind though is that most of the leadership positions have already been done. This happened before the end of the year. Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, Nancy Pelosi, they were all elected by their caucuses. This speaker's job is a constitutional position. So he has to be -- or she, has to be elected by the majority of the House.

And one last thing I will say, something that we're going to be looking for on the House floor, because of the weather and because of the fact that there are some members of Congress who are at Mario Cuomo's funeral in New York, you actually might see the need for a smaller majority to actually become speaker because it's the majority of those present. That's how the speaker is elected. So it will probably be lower than 218. So the irony is that Speaker Boehner could be helped by the fact that perhaps some Democrats might not be here.

BLITZER: And when you say the weather, there was an inch or two or three of snow here in the greater Washington, D.C., area that's causing some travel problems for a bunch of folks, including some flights getting canceled coming into the D.C. area. Stand by.

Gloria Borger, you're on the Senate side. Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate, he had a bad exercise accident over the weekend in Nevada, in Henderson, Nevada, outside of Las Vegas.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: He did.

BLITZER: He's actually working from his apartment here in Washington today. He's not going to show up at the U.S. Senate, is that right?

BORGER: That's right. He tweeted out a picture in which he looked pretty banged up, Wolf. He was scheduled to give a speech on the floor of the Senate today. That's obviously not going to happen. But the Senate will convene nonetheless. You know, I was just talking to New Hampshire Democrat Jeanne Shaheen, who won a very tight race for reelection. And, you know, I asked her, what is it like to come back? You were in the majority, you got reelected, but now you're in the minority. She tried to put the best face on it. She said, you know, I'm going to continue to work across the aisle, et cetera, et cetera. But it's very clear that Democratic senators are trying to kind of feel their way around here because it's a totally different environment for them.

And one thing she also said to me, Wolf, was that she said it was her understanding that the president would veto a Keystone pipeline. And, you know, we heard from the president before the Christmas break. It sounded like he had a veto in mind. She seemed to be reinforcing that, although we haven't gotten any official word on that. And we know that that's the first thing that the incoming majority leader, Mitch McConnell, intends to bring up on the floor. So clearly a fight already ensuing on day one.

BLITZER: Yes, fights in the Senate, fights in the House. We're going to see what's happening.

Dana, Gloria, both of you stand by for a moment. The House and the Senate, they're being called into session right now as we speak. Some quorum calls are taking place. Some technicalities.

Jake, you know, we have a new CNN/ORC poll that just came out. Compared to last Congress, do you believe the new Congress will get more done, 37 percent, get less done, 15 percent, no difference, 47 percent. So there isn't a whole lot of optimism that there's going to be a lot more done over the next two years with the Republican majority in the House and the Senate and, obviously, the Democratic president in the White House.

TAPPER: It would be hard for them to get less done than the last Congress. I think that was the least - or the second to the least accomplished Congress in modern American history. So I'm glad that the minority was saying it would get less done.

Look, there is an opportunity and Speaker Boehner has tried to work with President Obama in the past. But by the same token, the people who are elected in the last two cycles, a lot of the Republicans are people who philosophically really oppose President Obama. And one could argue that since the midterm elections of 2014, President Obama has shown even more of an inclination to issue executive actions, especially on immigration, which is a very controversial issue. And many people believe he has turned a little bit to the left. So I think there is an opportunity for bipartisan agreement but both sides right now seem to be doing their own thing.

BLITZER: Now, the first real issue that will come up, we're told at least from Mitch McConnell, the new Senate majority leader, is the Keystone pipeline. That presumably will pass in the House, presumably will pass in the Senate, and the expectation is the president will then go ahead and veto it.

TAPPER: He has not yet issued -

BLITZER: HE hasn't said that formally.

TAPPER: A formal veto threat. But the last time he was asked about it, he basically laid the case for a veto. He basically explained why this oil would basically just help refineries and companies in Canada and then would not - you know, it would go down through the United States and then go out and be disbursed and spread and sold throughout the world and would only marginally affect American oil prices but wouldn't come into this country. He didn't say, I will veto it, but he said here are all the reasons I think it's a bad idea.

BLITZER: Yes, and he was downplaying the job creation capability long term.

TAPPER: Oh, significantly, yes.

BLITZER: So he was giving all the signals that he would veto it.

Let's go to our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski.

The vice president, Michelle, Joe Biden, he's already in the Senate. He's getting ready to swear in the newly reelected members of the Senate and the new members of the Senate, groups of four. We're going to be watching that as he goes forward. That's always interesting to hear a little bit of that.

There's the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, getting ready to do that, to start swearing in new members and reelected members of the United States Senate. Joe Biden being the president, the vice president is always the president of the United States Senate.

But, quickly, Michelle, tell us a little bit about what we expect. We fully expect the president will go ahead and veto legislation if, in fact, the Senate and the House pass the Keystone pipeline.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right, we certainly heard that yesterday. I mean they're not saying that in so many words and yesterday we didn't hear from the president directly but from the press secretary. And this was the first White House briefing we've had since before the holidays. So we were able to ask a lot of those tough questions as this Congress is getting started.

And, no, they're not issuing a veto threat as they have in the last several weeks with some other bills that have come up. And they've made that very clear. But it's certainly sounding that way. I mean we heard the press secretary say that the president feels that, you know, there's still legislation pending through Nebraska, the root of this pipeline hasn't been established yet. He's worried about pollution. He's worried about the possible ill effects of this pipeline, doesn't feel like it's really ready for a vote right now, but at the same time saying, well, we're not quite ready to issue a veto threat right now and kind of not wanting to poison the waters in a way before everything gets underway.

And, really, that's what we're hearing from the White House, that they want to focus on what the positives are. But at the same time, they're kind of saying the opposite. We heard the press secretary talk about the definite areas of compromise where things can get done in this Congress. These are hardly controversial issues like infrastructure. Although at times they can be. But other areas like tax reform, closing some loopholes, working together on education. Things like that where we've seen them come together and work with the president in the past, sort of wanting to focus on, let's see what we can do first off.

At the same time, though, the press secretary said, well, if the Congress isn't going to work on the progress that the president is going -- wants to make, then he is going to act alone wherever he can, foreshadowing, yes, more executive action, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we will be hearing shortly from the president, right? He's got a meeting with the Mexican president. There's going to be a photo opportunity there, is that right?

KOSINSKI: Right. He's certain to be thrown some questions. We're not sure if he's going to answer them yet, but plenty out there as this all gets started for 2015, Wolf.

BLITZER: Of course we'll share that tape once we get that tape as well. Michelle, stand by.

I want to bring in our political commentators, Ana Navarro and Van Jones.

Ana, you anticipate that there will be a greater amount of cooperation, a less amount of cooperation, between the Republican majorities in the House and the Senate and the president during his final two years in office, more or less the same, what do you anticipate?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, like Jake said, it's really hard to imagine that there could be less cooperation. What I do anticipate is that there is more cooperation between the House and the Senate. I think that both Mitch McConnell and John Boehner understand that people want Congress to get things done and that the same kind of gridlock that existed between House and Senate in the last two years cannot exist. They have to show something for having a Republican majority in both houses.

Now, what that means, vis-a-vis the president, and we know that the president needs to sign off on any legislation, is yet to be determined. I think the tea leaves ain't looking too good right now.

BLITZER: In terms of really great cooperation --

NAVARRO: In terms of cooperation. I think, you know -

BLITZER: And -

NAVARRO: I think President Obama has signaled that he will veto things he doesn't agree with and I think they're going to pass a lot of things.

BLITZER: And you - you agree that Boehner will be the speaker of the House?

NAVARRO: Oh, yes.

BLITZER: Despite this opposition from some Tea Party activists?

NAVARRO: Because this is symbolic. This is messaging. This is deja vu all over again. We saw this two years ago. It is a group of -- a small group of Republicans who don't agree with him and think he's establishment and are anti-everything who want to send the clear message that they are not part of Boehner team. OK, message received, next.

TAPPER: What do you think would happen if it was a blind ballot? If it wasn't - if you didn't have to go on the record with your vote? Do you think -- how do you think the House Republicans would vote?

NAVARRO: I think I would - I think Boehner would still win. You know, as Wolf points out -

TAPPER: But more would vote against him, probably, a few more?

NAVARRO: You know, I'm not sure. I mean I think - look, I think most people, most Republicans I talk to these -- it's just that there's a small group that makes a lot of noise. But I think the vast majority of Republicans in the House of Representatives want to support John Boehner, recognize the fund-raising efforts, his campaign efforts and the fact that he has ushered in the biggest Republican majority in years. And this is the thanks he gets?

BLITZER: You know what, I'm going to go to Van Jones in a moment. But the vice president is swearing in the first group of senators. I just want to listen in quickly.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which you're about to enter, so help you God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

BIDEN: Congratulations, senators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Vice President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BLITZER: That was the first group of senators, Senators Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Corey Booker of New Jersey, Shelly Moore Caputo of West Virginia, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. He's going to be doing this throughout the next hour or so. Groups of four senators being sworn into the 114th Congress. We'll stand by, do some more of that as it comes up.

But, Van, what do you think, Van Jones? You served in the Obama administration. What's your expectation for cooperation or lack thereof over the next two years?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I think that the Republican Party is now on trial for its ability to be a governing party. One of the things you saw, they said, look, we've got to be a good opposition party. We've got to show that Obama is a horrible president. We've got to block him everywhere we can. And by doing so, we think we're going to be rewarded at the ballot box. That strategy paid off. They were able to run against Obama and win.

Now is question is, is this party structurally capable of governing? Are there so many extreme elements, wacky elements in this party that they can't even come together themselves to even put stuff on his desk that will force him to veto or not? The jury is still out. This, in some ways, is being dismissed as a sideshow. But I'm hearing that, you know, there are real concerns about Boehner's leadership and we also got to deal with the fact that some of the things that this party wants to do, the Republican Party wants to do, are wildly unpopular with the American people. So I think the Republican Party's on trial now. Yes, you are a good opposition party, but can you now go from opposition to proposition? Can you go from stopping the White House to actually getting something done? And I think the jury's still out.

BLITZER: The next group of senators walking in to be sworn in by the vice president of the United States. Joe Biden, who is the president of the United States Senate. You see this next group, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Susan Collins of Maine, Chris Coons of Delaware, John Cornyn of Texas.

You know, president -- the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, he's shaking hands. I want our viewers to get a little flavor of how this swearing-in ceremony goes. So, you know what, let's listen to the vice president as he gets ready right now.

BIDEN: You want to change your mind?

Would you all please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, that you take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which you're about to enter, so help you God?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

BIDEN: Congratulations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: Congratulations.

BLITZER: All right, there you see what's about to unfold, the newly elected and reelected U.S. senators being sworn in by the vice president, Joe Biden.

Gloria, you're up there on the Senate. You wanted to clarify something about this upcoming vote on the Keystone pipeline. BORGER: Right. You know, before we went on the air, Wolf, I spoke with

Jeanne Shaheen, who's just been reelected from the state of New Hampshire, a Democrat, was in a very tight race, and she said to me that it's her belief and that the president has suggested that there would be a veto of the Keystone pipeline. This is not to say that she has been told directly, but she seemed to assume that the president would veto the pipeline.

What's interesting about this is that, as Jake pointed out earlier, what the president seemed to indicate before the Christmas break. Now, the Democrats say that they could sustain a veto and the Republicans right now are saying they could override a veto. So that's how close it would be.

But it's not by chance that the incoming majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has decided to make this issue number one. He knows that the Keystone pipeline is a very popular issue out there. He's got a newly emboldened majority. It's something that Republicans can all agree on. We know they have a lot of differences. Just look at what's going on in the House. And so this is his first issue. And it's she -- Jeanne Shaheen is not going to vote for it and she believes the president would veto it.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see. Well, they'll need 60 votes. They have 54 Republicans. We'll see if six democrats will join those -- assuming all the Republicans vote for it.

BORGER: And, Wolf - and, Wolf, and one more thing I would point out about what's going on in the Senate today, not only is there a shift of power, which Democrats have to adjust to, but also don't forget what complicates matters as we go forward is that there are a few presidential candidates down there who may decide that they want to lead in a different direction from the direction that Mitch McConnell wants to lead. And that's going to be something very curious to watch. Particularly keep your eye on Senator Rand Paul and Senator Ted Cruz, who will be going at each other, and Cruz will be going at McConnell from a different direction, you can be sure about that.

BLITZER: A little drama on the Republican side as well. Gloria, stand by.

Jake, another question we did in our brand-new CNN/ORC poll, we asked this question. Compared to last Congress, will the new Congress be more responsive to the public, 30 percent said yes, less responsive to the public, 21 percent, no difference, 48 percent, almost half. Once again, not a whole lot of optimism that the new Congress is going to be more responsive to the American public.

TAPPER: Yes. There is a lot of dismay with Washington right now and it cuts across party lines, it cuts across ideological lines. People think that Washington is just not functioning the way it should. Whether you blame Obama or the Republicans in Congress, everyone seems to unite around the proposition that it's not working the way it needs to. It's one of the reasons I think why we saw such historically low voter turnout at the midterm elections and why Congress' approval ratings, as John McCain often says, is down to immediate family members and staffers.

BLITZER: Within the margin of error.

TAPPER: Right. Right.

BLITZER: Some people have said.

All right, stand by. Everyone stand by.

It's a historic day here in Washington, D.C. The new Congress, the 114th Congress.

You know what, Dana, you've got some news before we go to break. Quickly.

BASH: Yes.

Mr. Speaker, how you feeling? Are you going to be reelected?

OK, as is his usual practice, he didn't want to talk to me or other reporters. That's his standard operating procedure when he walks through these hallways. But he looked ahead, looked straight ahead, went into the House chamber and he is going to be in there for the opening of this session. And he's going to wait to see how many of his rank-and-file actually do vote against him.

One interesting note is that when this vote happened two years ago, John Boehner wasn't on the floor. He was in kind of an anti (ph) room off of the floor when they were taking the vote. Which actually surprised me because if I were the House speaker wanting to be reelected, I would probably want to be on the House floor having to force people to look me in the eye and vote against me. So we'll see if he does the same thing right now.

BLITZER: Did he at least smile when he - I couldn't tell, Dana. Was he at least smiling when he walked by you and ignored your question?

BASH: He smiled with his eyes, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, all right.

BASH: I've known John Boehner long enough to know that I knew what was going through his head, which is, he was thinking to himself, you know I'm not going to talk to you but nice try.

BLITZER: Yes, it was a very nice try indeed. All right, good work, Dana.

Let's take a quick break. More of the start - the official start of the 114th Congress right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: You know, it is not very often that you get a clear shot of the guy who took the shot. But that's exactly what we have here. Take a look at your screen. Police say this man was involved in the shooting of two New York City police officers as they were responding to a late-night robbery last night. And the police have some pretty good news to share. Breaking right now, they have identified the shooter. They haven't apprehended him yet, but they know exactly who he is.

Not only that, they have the accomplice, the alleged accomplice. It turns out a 28-year-old guy shortly after the shooting decided he didn't like the bullet in his back and he went to get treatment at a hospital. Well, it didn't take long before the police could connect him to the shooting and then, lo and behold, they now have the identities of both and they have one of these guys in custody.

What's amazing is that so much of it played out so quickly. And perhaps it's because of what you're seeing on your screen, video of the actual gun going up right before two New York City police officers were shot. And I can also tell you two other things. The officers have now been identified. They're Andrew Dossi and Aliro Pellerano. Pellerano or Pellerano, I'm not sure the pronunciation. But Dossi was in critical condition. He underwent surgery. He had apparently gunshot wounds that affected his arm and his lower back. And then Pellerano, who's 38-years-old, stabilized. He had gunshot wounds to his chest and his arm.

These guys were at the end of their shift and they responded to this robbery and that's what they got. But like I said, it hasn't even been 24 hours and there's some apprehensions here. Evan Perez joins me now, along with CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins.

First and foremost, I suppose we shouldn't be so shock about how quickly this has been almost resolved.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Right.

BANFIELD: There's still - you know, one of the guys, who's identified, is on the loose. But - but, wow. I mean that video was just incredibly telling.

PEREZ: Like you said, it's very rare that we have video of the actual moment --

BANFIELD: His face.

PEREZ: You see this -- you see his face very clearly. You also see the gun going up as the police officers - we're told the police officers, again, you mentioned they were coming off their shift. They approached this area when -- after they hear about this robbery call. And they tried to make these arrests when this guy decides to shoot. And he shoots both of them. Then then they make their getaway.

Now, they carjacked a white Camaro, Ashleigh, nearby and they abandoned it nearby. And that's when, you know, police officers now are trying to figure out where this guy, the bearded guy, the one we show on video, where he is.

BANFIELD: Yes.

PEREZ: We expect that they'll be able to get some information from the guy -- from his accomplice in the hospital.

BANFIELD: And - whoa, you're not kidding. First of all, this is all breaking right now, so we don't even have the name of the shooter at this point, the alleged shooter. But we know that the police know the name.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: And that they are going after this guy.

PEREZ: Well we actually - we have the name. We're not using it right now. But we have the name of the guy.

BANFIELD: Until they're formally releasing it?

PEREZ: Until he's (ph) formally released it, right.

BANFIELD: A $12,000 reward might not be a bad incentive for anybody out there who saw that video for the last five hours.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

BANFIELD: Mel -

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: All I could think of when this 28-year-old guy checks himself into the hospital after a shootout with the police, with a gunshot in his back, is, oh, boy, they're going to find you. They're going to catch you and they're going to squeeze you for information.

ROBBINS: Although they don't need to squeeze him. This is interesting. I mean so many folks, when you hear this kind of - this kind of fact scenario, you think, oh my gosh, this is a - this is a "CSI," a "48 Hours" kind of thing that you see on TV. It happens all the time where you want to put the squeeze on the accomplice.

What's interesting here, Ashleigh, is they actually don't need the accomplice. The accomplice, even though he didn't pull the trigger, he's on parole for robbery.

BANFIELD: How about that.

PEREZ: Right.

ROBBINS: He's already going back to jail. He's committed a robbery. He has committed a carjacking. So they don't need to offer him a deal, I don't think. In a lot of cases you do. We used to call it, in the public defender's office, banging a plea out of somebody. That's not a nice way to put it, but it's when you knew the best deal you could get was to make your client talk against his buddies.

The thing that I find fascinating is, if he's hanging out with somebody on parole, I am willing to bet money, as a former criminal defense attorney here in New York City, that the guy that we're looking for has a parole officer out there that is going to recognize him. There are people in this city that know exactly who this guy is. They will turn him in. And so I don't think you're going to see the accomplice who went into the hospital with the bullet wound -- must have been very serious because the guy's on parole.

PEREZ: Right.

ROBBINS: He knows if his parole officer finds out about this, he's going to be called and go back to the slammer.

BANFIELD: He's going back to the slammer, yes.

ROBBINS: And so I think you're not going to see a deal in this case. And we're going to find this guy by the end of the day.

BANFIELD: But, coincidentally, the news breaks first that they, you know, that they've identified this hospital, you know, fella. They've identified him, they've got him, and they've connected him to this as a co-conspirator.

ROBBINS: Yes. Yes.

BANFIELD: And then it didn't take but about an hour and I think we had the shooter identified. And it made me wonder if they didn't say to him, you may not have been the shooter as you sit here in your hospital bed, but you could go down for a very long time, the attempted murder of an officer.

ROBBINS: You better believe they said that. You better believe, as he's cuffed to the bed and he's getting interrogated, that they're sitting there pressuring him, saying, this is your moment. You either talk now because you -- we have you on a parole violation, we have you on a carjacking, we have you on robbery and we have you on attempted felony murder. This means you're never getting out of prison. You want to cooperate right now? We might -

BANFIELD: We might.

ROBBINS: Might -

BANFIELD: Give you a break.

ROBBINS: Give you a deal.

PEREZ: But, you know, what's interesting here is, you know, for people who apparently have a robbery in their past, you know, they recovered an old revolver at the scene. These are not, you know, recent new guns that they're using. This gun that they used in this crime is an old revolver that they recovered. And police are using that to try to trace this suspect as well.

BANFIELD: All right, so we got the picture of, you know, the alleged attempted murder weapon of these two officers, at this point as well.

I want to bring in as well, if you guys could stand by for a moment, CNN's law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes. You know, Tom, originally the idea was to ask you to come on the

program to talk about something that's making a lot of news right now, and that is that the arrests and the police activity is down, the warrants, the ticketing. All of the police activity in New York City is down for the last two weeks and it's been, I think, even referred to by you as the blue flu. Cops backing off and saying, you don't want us, fine. We won't do everything that we're supposed to do. And yet we see these two guys out there, at the end of their shift, plain clothed, going in and taking two bullets.