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More AirAsia Bodies Found in Java Sea; Remembering NYPD Officer Wenjian Liu; Search for More Wreckage and Victims' Bodies; North Korea Blasts U.S. for Sanctions; Obama Returns from Vacation; Search Crew Finds Planes in Lake Michigan

Aired January 4, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, on Sunday, the plan was to send divers down into the water. They did that. The problem, once they got underneath the surface, there was no visibility. It was pitch black so they couldn't take a closer look at those objects today that they had been searching for. One of them you'll remember about 60 feet long. That's the -- about the length of the wing of an Airbus A320. They're expecting on Monday to put divers back in the water.

Also hoping to send an underwater robot down with a camera to take a look at these pieces. There are five actually now, five large pieces. They found another one on Sunday.

Also some news coming about -- out about a report from Indonesia's weather agency suggesting that perhaps icing may have played a factor. Icing on the plane's engines specifically.

You know, Fred, authorities here taking It was one theory the weather agency said they were putting forward about the current weather conditions in the sky at the time. You know, one piece of information. But at this point just a theory along with everything else that the investigators have to go on. The condition of the debris, the condition of the human remains as they're discovered, pulled out of the Java Sea, and returned here to the crisis center.

One of the things to update you on, AirAsia now offering compensation to the families of those aboard Flight 8501. About $24,000 per person. This is not a -- this is not a big insurance payout. This is just meant to cover some of their costs from being away from home, missing work, and waiting for their loved ones or news of their loved ones behind me in the crisis center.

Fred, some family members saying it's just too soon. They feel that if they accept this payout, despite what AirAsia is saying, that it also means they're giving up hope that their loved ones will return home -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. David Molko, thank you so much.

Dive teams will also resume their search for the fuselage and plane's flight data recorders. The pinger locator batteries in the black boxes have about 22 days of power left. Investigators need to find the devices to get a clear picture of -- when and why that plane went down.

Joining me right now, former NTSB medical officer Mitch Garber. He's also the senior managing consultant for Engineering Systems Incorporated.

Good to see you again. So we've got a black box here. It's orange. That's the way they are so that they can be spotted in debris. But help us understand how they work and how this is fairly typical to the black boxes, the flight data, the voice recorders used in airplanes.

MITCH GARBER, FORMER NTSB MEDICAL OFFICER: Of course, as you know, it is orange. And it's easy to identify. Easy to find visually. You've got a pinger here on the one end. That's the thing that's going to be activated when it hits the water so that you're going to be -- you're going to have that information coming from the actual black box telling you where it is, telling you where you can locate that, amongst -- what can often be a fairly large debris field.

And then you've got data that come into this normally when it's operating. You've got data that are coming into it about the normal function of the aircraft. And then of course, if there's an emergency, if there's some problem, ideally, all of that data is also captured in addition to the cockpit voice recorder which is going to have data from the -- what the cockpit is saying, what the people in the cockpit are saying to one another and to the ground.

So you've got a fair amount of information that then needs to be correlated with what we know already about what's happened with an aircraft accident like this one.

WHITFIELD: So there are a number of ships that are in the area that are focusing on a search area. But generally they have to be on top of these boxes in order to hear the pingers. The weather has been, you know, a big problem. But as we talk about these boxes in association with the tail wing generally in the airplane, is there a likelihood or possibility that the pinger which is on the outside there could get damaged and so perhaps they may never hear it?

GARBER: Rarely we get to a situation where the pinger may not be functioning. Typically it's going to function pretty well under a variety of different conditions. But it can happen. Again in this case you've got a situation where they've actually found, or at least they believe the found the majority of the wreckage. Once that happens typically it's only a matter of time until the recorders themselves are recovered and I think that's probably going to be what see here especially given the relatively shallow depth of the sea in that area.

WHITFIELD: What's the kind of information that is inside this box and how is it that it's so protected?

GARBER: So this box will be recording -- these days it will be recording hundreds or even thousands of channels of data. So almost anything that you can record, anything electronically that's going on with the aircraft can be recorded here. Information about how the information was being portrayed to the pilots. Information about what they're doing in the cockpit, the kinds of actions that they may be taking.

All of that is going to be recorded here. And then of course the cockpit voice recorder which will have two hours of voice tape in addition.

WHITFIELD: And recorded on memory chips, you say.

GARBER: These are -- the newer ones are typically memory chips, so something like you'd be using in your computer. They're solid state. They're really rugged and then they're packed in here like you wouldn't believe. They've got thermal protection, they've got shock protection. So they're really designed to be recoverable almost no matter what happens to the aircraft.

And in fact we see that. We see these very unusual accidents where we still recover usable data from flight data recorders and they had been at the bottom of the sea for years even as in the case with Air France 447.

WHITFIELD: So the hope is they'll be located and they'll be able to figure out what happened. Meantime there continues to be the discussion about that data streaming capability and why so many planes don't have them as we know it right now. Only one Canadian Air carrier has them, uses them. It's not cost effective? Is that why so many airlines stay away from it or they just don't rely on it, count on it? What's going on?

GARBER: Well, there's a huge discussion going on about that right now. And in fact has been really for many years now especially since Air France, where we've been looking at how is it possible, what kinds of things can you legitimately get out of the aircraft on a regular routine basis so that you'll have an idea of not only where the airplane is and what it's doing but real-time evidence that will help you to sort of investigate the accident.

The Spaceship One crash which you referred earlier had huge amounts of telemetry that was already getting to the ground so when they started they had a leg up on the investigation. Obviously that will be as investigators, we love to have as much information as early as possible. And I think there is a lot of discussion right now about how to actually go about that.

How can you do that and what kinds of data and what kinds of bandwidth do you need to get that kind of data regularly to the ground in order to be able to do these types of investigations?

WHITFIELD: So that's something in the future right now. The key is finding these boxes in this AirAsia flight. You feel fairly confident that when they do come across it, it will be likely intact. It will be able to hold information and investigators will be able to learn from it.

GARBER: That's specifically what these are designed for. Obviously you can get a lot of information from the wreckage even from bodies when those are examined as they come up. But what you really want to know is what was going on in that cockpit. What kinds of things can we find out? What was going through the minds of the individuals who were actually controlling the aircraft? And what information did they have and how were they acting on that?

That's ultimately the course of the investigation. And really having this makes all the difference in the world.

WHITFIELD: And even if submerged in great depths of water for weeks at a time?

GARBER: Even for years. We would expect to see good data recovered from these. Again, unless there's some very bizarre occurrence where there was a malfunction with the report itself and so far that's not -- no indications that that would be the case.

WHITFIELD: All right. Mitch Garber, thanks so much. Appreciate your expertise. Appreciate it.

GARBER: Great. Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, the divide between New York's police department and its mayor growing deeper. Some officers turning their backs as the mayor spoke at Detective Liu's funeral today.

I'm talking to one of those officers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today is the saddest day in my life. My only son left me. No words can express my sadness. When I was sick, he took me to see the doctor right away. He called me every day before he finished work to ensure me that he is safe and to tell me that I'm coming home today. You can stop worrying now.

PEI XIA CHEN, WIDOW OF WENJIAN LIU: He is my soul mate. My best friend. He took pride in the fact that he is NYPD. A caring son, a loving husband. You are an amazing man. Wenjian's my hero. You can always count on him. Again I thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He would go out of his way to make sure we're always happy. People have pride and honor to have family. Even though he is gone he will never be forgotten.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: His commitment was as strong as his purpose was pure. I am honored to be here today to pay tribute to a fallen peacemaker.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: The Buddha imparted a simple lesson. Train yourself to attain peace, he said. That was how Detective Liu lived his life.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK POLICE: We thank the Liu family for sharing him with us, as their guests who mourn with them. We take comfort in the Buddha's words that even when death comes the lessons of goodness do not perish. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Just some of how people paid respect to Detective Liu today. Earlier thousands of officers paying their final respects, as you see there, lining the streets of Brooklyn. Some of them knew Liu personally, others did not.

During the funeral, Liu's widow helped everyone understand what the world has lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEI XIA CHEN: One of his many passions is being a police officer. He took pride in the fact that he is NYPD. Wenjian was a very hard working cop so much so he found not just a job to provide for myself and his parents but a career that he enjoys. He was (INAUDIBLE) in our book. He spoke about how much respect he had for the law. How he applied the law. He was objective in his determination of the law with courtesy, with respect, and with the highest professionalism.

Also he worked often. He would always make sure to take time for me, his number one fan, his family and his friends. Wenjian will always live in our hearts. My heart. We love you. We love you. Forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The couple had been married only two months before Officer Liu and his partner, Officer Rafael Ramos, were ambushed and killed on December 20th. Officer Ramos was laid to rest last weekend.

Now I want to bring in former NYPD detective Tom Verni in New York. And on the phone with us, former New York police commissioner and Houston mayor, Lee Brown.

Glad to have both of you with me.

So, Mr. Brown, you know, some have been saying that Mayor Bill de Blasio needs to apologize in order to heal the divide with police. But what do police need to do, if anything, to make peace with a mayor that they are disrespecting publicly if you listen to the words of Commissioner Bratton?

LEE BROWN, FORMER MAYOR AND POLICE CHIEF, HOUSTON: I'm delighted that Commissioner Bratton put out the memo to his officers because the general services is really at a time their protest -- it's the time to pay respect for a fallen officer.

As I watch the events unfold, clearly there are some issues between the mayor and the police union if not other members of the New York City Police Department. What those issues are, I have not heard yet. But I would suggest one of the things they should do since they're getting together the other day did not produce the desired results. They may want to employ a professional mediator to bring them together, work out the issues, so they can get about the business of providing quality police services to the city. And that's what the police department is about. And we find that

Commissioner Bratton is kind of caught in between. For him to be successful in carrying out his responsibilities as the commissioner, he needs the support of the officers in the police department. Yet he works for the mayor. The mayor appoints him. So he's walking a very tight rope trying to carry out his responsibilities and the issue that separate the police union and the mayor needs to be resolved as soon as possible.

WHITFIELD: And Tom, does this, in your view, send a potentially dangerous message to the public that the police department, members of the -- members wearing blue are not respectful of the mayor and so does that send a message that the general populous, regular folks, shouldn't respect him either?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, first, I'd like to say hello to Commissioner Brown. He was actually my boss when I first started in the NYPD.

(CROSSTALK)

VERNI: The -- I think what's happening here is, well, first of all, anyone who thinks that the NYPD is not doing their job is incorrect. So for those bad guys and terrorists that are looking to do harm in New York City, think again because the NYPD is out there 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have not taken their eye off the ball. They are still doing their jobs the way they always do.

The mayor, you know, when he was running for mayor as a candidate and subsequently after becoming mayor, he had the opportunity aside from the somewhat anti-PD rhetoric that he was ranting during his candidacy for mayor, he had the opportunity to settle a contract that was abandoned by the previous mayor and he failed to do that. So that was another slap in the face.

And then what happened in Staten Island when the, you know, the Staten Island jury -- the grand jury came back with a no true bill against the officer in that incident, you know, the mayor also had a responsibility at that point to come out supporting the police and also advocating that the people who wanted to protest, they could do so as their right to do so but in a safe and peaceful and lawful way.

Not that -- you know, and then when people started chanting "death to police" and, you know, what do we want, you know, dead cops, when do we want it, now, that's when the mayor had an opportunity to put the best foot forward to say this is unbelievably disrespectful and that type of behavior was not going to be tolerated where people threatening the police. So --

WHITFIELD: So it sounds like -- I mean, there's a justification I'm hearing from you then in terms of why the handful of police officers would turn their back today, why a much larger number would turn their backs last week during Mr. Ramos' ceremony. And you're saying, am I hearing you right, that you're saying that we are really at a point of no return and that there is no room, there is no way in which this relationship between NYPD and the mayor of the city of New York can be repaired?

VERNI: Well, I'm -- listen, I'm the consummate diplomat. I'd like to think that there's always a chance of repairing relationships. But I also am a realist and because of the actions of the mayor himself has taken kind of chastising and making the NYPD out to be this racist band of outlaws since his candidacy and up until recently. I think he -- again, he's kind of dug himself a hole. He's been trying to back pedal in the last couple of weeks especially after the assassination of these two officers.

And I don't think he's really gotten to the point where he has earned the respect of the police officers and that was shown in the funeral last week of -- with Detective Ramos and today with Detective Liu that they basically have given him a no confidence vote. They don't have any confidence in this mayor at this time. And he has any respect for them, he hasn't shown them any respect. And --

WHITFIELD: OK. So, Commissioner Brown, can I bring you back into this? Because if this is a situation where there is no confidence in the mayor, as we're hearing from Tom here, and that the mayor has not made a greater, more concerted effort to reach out to earn the respect of NYPD, are you seeing any real room for healing here? Or is this just a damage relationship that will be forever damaged relationship as long as this mayor is in office?

BROWN: I think there is an opportunity for healing. And that's the reason I suggested that there be an independent meeting here to come and bring the two sides together, and sit down and work out the issues that separate the police and the mayor.

We must remember that the mayor -- ran on a progressive platform. Reforming the police department, taking care of some of the issues that have surfaced. He brought in Commissioner Bratton to carry out that objective. And that's what he is trying to do right now as I see it from afar. Now certainly he has to respect the police officer. I'm sure that he does because they're his police officers now.

He's not a candidate anymore. He's the mayor of the city and all of the employees of the city he has a responsibility for. But I stressed the fact that there are opportunities and involves bringing in a third party to sit down with the unions and working out the issues, I believe that's what should be done.

WHITFIELD: OK. Now, as we mentioned, a smaller number of officers turned their backs today in comparison to last week during the funeral services for Officer Ramos. Among them today was Juan Rodriguez. He is with us now.

So, Mr. Rodriguez, explain to us, help us understand what was the motivation behind you turning your back today when the mayor spoke during Detective Liu's funeral?

JUAN RODRIGUEZ, FRIEND OF SLAIN DETECTIVE RAFAEL RAMOS: Well, first of all my condolences to the Ramos and Liu family. And definitely the police department, you know, members of the law enforcement are upset and also community people are upset as well. I think that the mayor have failed with the communication from the mayor's office to precinct council president, which are the one who are elected to represent them within police matters and community matters.

And as of yet, that hasn't been done either by the commissioner or the mayor's office. So here we are. Two officers shot, assassinated on the streets of New York City. And the communities teared up. Also the police department. I think the mayor needs to step forward. He needs to apologize to the police department. He's having these meetings at city hall, bringing --

WHITFIELD: And what are you asking the mayor? What are you hoping -- the mayor you say needs to apologize to the police department? Apologize for what specifically?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, definitely the mayor -- the police department feels that the mayor turned their back on them. You know, especially when he made comments about his son, that he spoke to his son, and to be careful with police and when they stop them. I mean, we all --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: And what is -- what is wrong with that? Help me understand that because he was talking about being a father of a biracial young man and talking to him about how he is to stay safe and he shared that with the public and how was that offensive?

RODRIGUEZ: But that's what -- these conversations we all have them as parents. We have them as parents. I have with my son at home. And I even follow that same policy of a police officer stops me, I'm not going to hesitate and argue with the police officer. And this is what is happening nowadays. You have --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: But that the mayor did that, you're saying you take offense to that? Why?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, the mayor -- that should have been a private conversation.

VERNI: Exactly.

RODRIGUEZ: There's other issues that are happening with the police department. And the police department needs the mayor's support. They need -- and the mayor hasn't supported the police department. I mean, there's other issues that are going on with the law enforcement. I can't go into those details. You know. But definitely as a community, definitely there has to be -- there has to be a relationship with the police department.

Yet until today I sit here and I haven't had a meeting with the mayor, with the commissioner as far as the responsibility that we have as elected officials within police and community to do the outreach and to make that relationship much better.

WHITFIELD: So when the commissioner, Commissioner Bratton, said he is requesting that no police officer turn their back on the mayor during the funeral services for Detective Liu, but that there would be no consequences, how did you make the decision today that it was appropriate, right, honorable, respectful, to turn your back during this funeral service?

You were in attendance. What was the decision? Help us understand the decision that you made and what you were thinking about to make that decision and why you believe it was a powerful statement to make?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, definitely he -- once again he failed. He failed not only the police department, he failed certain members of the community as well. And I'm very -- very uncomfortable right now. I feel very dissatisfied with the way -- the process being done. There are people being sat at the table that aren't even elected. They're not even representing the community and the precinct.

You have -- once again you bring certain individuals to city hall. You sit then down there, that are anti-police, that are racist. And then they -- then you let them take over the meetings at city hall and then the people who are representing in each borough, every policeman has a president to represent them within that community. They haven't even been reached out yet. Today I sit here and this is a problem. How do you reach out? How do you have that conversation with police and community?

WHITFIELD: And Juan, how are you convinced or what convinces you that the family members of Detective Liu wouldn't interpret the turning of the back to be a disrespectful move for Detective Liu and that instead this message is to be directly conveyed to the mayor?

RODRIGUEZ: I don't think they're being disrespectful. I think that they are very sad. They feel that certain elected officials that represent within the city have turned their back on them. You know, it's the wrong -- it's the wrong timing. I wish that things could be different. But there is a lot of healing that needs to be done on both sides. And I think that the mayor needs to step up and apologize, apologize and try to make that respect with community and police, bring that back together.

WHITFIELD: All right. Former Commissioner Lee Brown, if I could bring you back into this. As you hear Juan Rodriguez, and he talks about, you know, the mayor needs to apologize and that there is a broken relationship between the mayor and NYPD.

If you were still commissioner today of New York Police Department, what would you advise? What would you do? How do you digest this information that we just heard from Juan Rodriguez?

BROWN: Number one, I think it's the responsibility of the commissioner to work with the precinct councils. When I was the commissioner, I made it my point to go and meet with each one of them on a regular basis to take advantage of what they had to offer.

Number two, this concern about the mayor, about his son, then that happens quite often. I've raised children. I did not give them the same advice but told them to -- first of all, don't get in trouble. And two if you're stopped by the police, be respectful. Say yes, sir, no, sir. I think that's something that many African-Americans and increasingly more Hispanics are also saying to their children.

I just don't see that as being respectful to the police. But I do believe and we have confirmed that there are issues that did not surfaced yet and those issues have to be resolved to bring about harmony between the mayor's office and the rank-and-file police officers.

I work very closely with the union (INAUDIBLE). As the president of Patrolman Benevolence Association. But a good relationship. When issues surfaced, we'll able to discuss them and almost all cases resolved it.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Is the --

BROWN: Putting down, laying the issues on the table. If necessary an independent mediator. This is what I see needs to be done at this time to move towards and provide the quality services that the New York City Police Department has always provided to the -- to the city.

I applaud the commissioner for issuing the memorandum, suggesting that the officers not turn their back on the mayor. The people of New York respect -- expect more from them than that. They expect them to be respectful to the person they have put in office to serve as the mayor. So I do not agree with the passion of some officers today who turned their back on the mayor and many more at the services for Officer Ramos.

WHITFIELD: And Juan Rodriguez, you're with the NYPD. And is your relationship from this point forward going to be any different or your level of respect to the police commissioner any different now because he did ask police officers not to turn their backs?

RODRIGUEZ: Well -- yes. First of all, let me just --

WHITFIELD: Does that change your point of view or your level of respect of the police commissioner?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. Let me just make it clear. I'm an elected position by the people in the community that I live in. And I'm not a police officer of that precinct. I get elected by the people in my community to represent them within police and community, and this is what we're talking about.

If we're not being reached out, we're having problems. We have serious problems in the projects. We have serious issue with gangs, with drugs in these communities. And they're not being addressed. They're being addressed locally in our police department and I'm very grateful. I have a very good inspector at my precinct. And when this inspector came in, everything he spoke about was community. But what's happening with the mayor's office? What's happening with the commissioner's office? WHITFIELD: And you're feeling that it's not being addressed because

this mayor is preventing any kind of progress in those areas of concern in your view?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. That's how I feel. Yes.

WHITFIELD: OK. Tom Verni --

BROWN: Yes, I will say this to respond to --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: OK, go ahead.

BROWN: It's the responsibility of the commissioner to reach out to those precinct councils. I advocated when I was commissioner (INAUDIBLE), I felt there is a better way of using police resources. We have the community such as the councils working to identify problems to prevent crime. To arrest those who committed crimes and to make the neighbors a better place.

The mayor can't lead. The police commissioner -- that's Commissioner Bratton's responsibility. He is the one that should reach out to the councils, meeting with them, listening to them, understanding their concerns and then using the resources at his disposal to address the concern of the various precincts throughout the city.

RODRIGUEZ: And you're right.

WHITFIELD: Is that from you, Juan Rodriguez?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, no, he's right. But who appointed the commissioner? The one who appointed the commissioner was the mayor of the city of New York. It wasn't me that appointed the commissioner. I mean, the commissioner has to take the responsibility. But it seems like that's not happening. And you know, it needs to happen right away. That needs to happen right away.

They were very quick to have a meeting with the people from the community that aren't elected to represent them within the community and the police department matters. So how is it possible that you have these meetings in city hall that they're anti-police, that they -- have done racial remarks on TV?

So how do you -- put these individuals and you bring them in city hall and take over the meeting in city hall? How does it happen? What are we resolving here? We're not resolving anything. Nothing is being done.

(CROSSTALK)

VERNI: Well, you know what, you also -- well, you also want to make known the fact that the officers only turned their backs when the mayor was speaking. Some of them. And then they immediately turned back around when Commissioner Bratton spoke. So clearly the officers respect Commissioner Bratton still, regardless of what has occurred up until this time.

So they did -- you know, while some of them did disregard the request of the memo, and the fact that they were not going to be disciplined, certainly if they were going to be disciplined then you may have had more that would have thought twice about turning their backs. But for the fact that they did turn their backs momentarily while the mayor spoke, and then when the police commissioner came up, they reversed and turned --

(CROSSTALK)

RODRIGUEZ: That's a whole different story.

VERNI: They had to respect the commissioner so.

WHITFIELD: All right. I'll have --

RODRIGUEZ: That's different. You have people that are very -- they're going to do their job with the commissioner. That is the commissioner, but that's the police department. I'm talking about the community part. What happens with the community? What happens with their responsibility? That they owe to our community. This is why they got elected, to represent us. And the one who put the commissioner there was the -- Mayor de Blasio.

WHITFIELD: All right. Looks like a lot of work to be done to kind of mend some of these fences.

Tom Verni, Commissioner Lee Brown, Juan Rodriguez, thank you, gentlemen. Thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you. Thank you.

VERNI: Anytime.

BROWN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. The latest now on the hunt for the victims and wreckage of AirAsia Flight 8501. The search is on hold for the night. But earlier today, searchers recovered four more bodies from the murky waters of the Java Sea. That brings the total number of victims found so far to 34. One of the bodies recovered today was found off the coast of Borneo.

That discovery suggests currents may be moving bodies and debris. To deal with that, authorities are extending the search zone eastward.

Nine of the victims found have now been identified including this little 10-year-old girl in the picture here with her family. These are pictures from the Singapore Ministry of Defense. Right there they show how heavy rain and high waves continue to hamper recovery efforts. Joining me right now, David Soucie, CNN safety analyst and author of

the books "Why Planes Crash" and "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370."

All right. So, David, Indonesian officials suggesting that there may have been icing. That's something to consider. Is it too early to have that conversation or is it an inappropriate idea to be tossed around?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, it's an appropriate idea in that it could affect where the aircraft lies right now and help the searchers. I think as far as speculating as to whether there is icing or not, there is many different types of icing particularly in thunderstorms like this one where you could be looking at -- especially at the indicated up graphs where as strong as they were you could be looking at large pieces of hail perfectly capable of possibly ingesting into the engine and taking engines out and having a loss of power.

So it's definitely a part of the investigation to help searchers find the wreckage. But then later in the investigation is when they'll look at that as a contributing cause.

WHITFIELD: And then the Airbus 320 has a so-called ditching switch for water landings. What are the conditions in which that would be used?

SOUCIE: Well, I'm not a pilot. I need to make sure everyone understands that. But I don't fly for commercial airlines. So I can't really address that specially other than from a maintenance perspective. What that ditching switch can do and does in this aircraft is a lot of work went into this because the ditching used to be not very successful.

Most aircraft, most fatalities from ditching accidents were after the aircraft landed and then subsequently drowned when the aircraft sank. So a lot of work has been done by the FAA and by the manufacturers to make sure that doesn't happen and yet as evidenced in the accident on the Potomac.

But in the accident on the Potomac, the ditching switch was not pushed yet the aircraft still was able to stay afloat. And that's because there's some one-way built-in check valves, other things that prevent the aircraft from sinking. But in this case if this switch is pushed, it actually disconnects certain devices and allows the air flow, changes the airflow within the aircraft to make it more buoyant and to make sure that the flood -- the water doesn't come in too quickly and sink the aircraft.

WHITFIELD: All right. And that Potomac accident, you're talking about that late '70s or early '80s right there off National Airport, right?

OK. Well, let's talk about these currents now.

SOUCIE: Valve, yes. WHITFIELD: Yes. Let's talk about the currents now that are moving

plane parts and one body retrieved east of that primary search area. How much more difficult is this now making conditions for searchers. Now they got to deal with things that are traveling.

SOUCIE: Fred, every single day that goes by with these winds and these currents makes it more and more and exponentially more difficult. It's so difficult to even understand where it is in flight. In the TWA 800 flight, for example, they spent weeks and weeks basically dragging the area for additional pieces of debris that were suspended between the top and the bottom of the ocean. So that part in itself is difficult.

Now we're talking about much more activities, as far as the turbulence inside the water, on top of the water. You can just see in those shots of the ship going through those seas just how much everything is moving. And as that spreads out, it spreads out, they're losing clues, they're not going to be able to get much information for where they're pulling debris. Because you just simply can't backtrack that stuff. And now they are trying to figure out how to do that.

I'm really concerned, though, about the fact that they're taking risks that may not be warranted at this point. The last thing you want to do is have additional fatalities or injuries during the search for reaching out a little too hard and being a little too anxious to get this thing solved.

WHITFIELD: And when you say losing clues, you're talking about of that debris that it's being further compromised in the travel and the drifting, erosion, that kinds of things.

SOUCIE: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. For example, there's a lot of information that can be gained from almost any piece of debris in that whether it was torn, whether it had a crack in it before. These are all things that we look at under a microscope --

WHITFIELD: Great.

SOUCIE: -- to see just exactly how the -- how the damage was done. If this is done subsequently like, as it's rolling and tumbling in waves, you can completely lose clues. Sometimes clues are just as small as a fingernail. And those are the kind of things that we'll find that will lead us to what exactly happened and trying to find those now is a very, very difficult task.

WHITFIELD: Gosh, that makes perfect sense.

All right. Thank you so much, David Soucie. Appreciate that.

And for more information about who was lost on AirAsia Flight 8501, go to CNN.com/impact there. You'll find resources and ways that you can help those grieving families in this tragedy.

Also still ahead, North Korea blasts the United States for those new economic sanctions. Erin McPike has the latest on that conversation next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: North Korea fires back at new strict sanctions by the U.S. in retaliation for the cyber attack on Sony. The communist nation calling the sanctions, quote, "repugnant" and "hostile."

CNN's Erin McPike is following the story for us.

So what is the White House saying today?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, I reached out to the White House this morning and they said that they don't have anything new to say about North Korea. It seems that they do not want to be drawn into a back-and-forth with North Korea. And so they aren't responding at least today, but in the meantime there is an influential Democrat in the Senate who has just finished being chair of the Foreign Relations Committee now that Republicans are coming in and taking control of the Senate.

It's Bob Menendez, and he was on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning and said that the sanctions don't go far enough. And he also said that he's reached out to Secretary of State John Kerry about putting North Korea back on the list for the state sponsors of terror and he hasn't gotten a response from John Kerry -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. And then, Erin, what is topping the president's agenda given this is the new back from vacation and Congress being sworn in?

MCPIKE: Well, Fred, he's been saying that he can work with Republicans on several issues including trade and tax reform. And also infrastructure spending. But there still will be a number of contentious issues that Republicans will be fighting President Obama when they come back this week.

And I want to play for you first, White House spokesman Eric Schultz talking about that follow by the incoming Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC SCHULTZ, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: They look like corporate tax reform to make sure that our tax code is fairer and simpler. It's infrastructure which would help create jobs and it's trade deals which would help open up new markets to American manufacturing.

These are areas where Republicans have been -- supported in the past and that's why he's eager to work with Congress to get those done.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), INCOMING MAJORITY LEADER: Now he needs to talk to us and that's good because when the American people elect the body of government, they're not saying they don't want anything done. What they are saying is they want things done in the political center, things that both sides can agree on and in the conversation last week, we talked about the things where there may be some agreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: But we are certain to see some fights over immigration, health care reform and the Keystone Excel pipeline just in the coming weeks -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Erin McPike, thanks so much. From Washington.

Still ahead, the effort to recover victims and wreckage from AirAsia Flight 8501. Still facing major challenges. We'll break it down with our experts next.

But first the CNN series, "ONES TO WATCH." And the world of street art. Be sure to watch the full episode on the Web at CNN.com/onestowatch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VHILS, STREET ARTIST: I was always interested at this idea of you being something that destroys the city, that defaces the city, that takes value out of the urban space where you live.

I started to realize that I didn't want to paint over and to be one more layer on all these layers that are building up on the city every day. On a wall sometimes you just need a tiny spark that ignites the explosion that brings all these layers from 50 years ago back to the present.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vhils works with a licensed pyro-technician, attaching calculated measures of dynamite to a drawing on the wall. Today he is working with an electric drill to carve out the face of a man he encountered in Lisbon a few months ago.

VHILS: The idea is to sort of, you know, you kept on the everyday mural and give space in the city, but it's also to make them invisible visible in a way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His recent solo show at a contemporary art museum in Lisbon was a sellout, and his following on social media is rapidly rising.

VHILS: I think social media plays a really big role because it makes a link between you and your work and what you want to communicate about your work directly to the people that follow it. As an artist that works in the public space and mostly seen as an outcast or someone that is defacing or taking value out of the place where he live makes you be an outsider, and this makes you want to look to different things that people usually don't.

For me I think it was the catalyst to make me realize things in a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Crews looking for the victims and wreckage AirAsia Flight 8501 are combing the Java Sea. The search zone has a depth of only around 100 feet, similar to what's found in Lake Michigan. Our George Howell takes a look at a similar salvage operation there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From up here, the waters look vast and the horizon seems endless. But for this team of salvagers and divers --

TARAS LYSSENKO, A&T RECOVERY: Airplanes kind of look like airplanes. So we're looking for an image of an airplane.

HOWELL: In no way is this the proverbial search for a needle in a haystack because like the search for AirAsia Flight 8501, the crew here knows roughly where to look. And after years of searching charts and records, they find themselves on the verge of a big find.

LYSSENKO: The worst the crash is, the more the restorers like it because it proves how good they are. They put it back together.

HOWELL: The depth of Lake Michigan, not more than several hundred feet in this area. The team uses sonar to find the exact location. And within a matter of minutes --

LYSSENKO: Right there. Boom, right there. See it? Oh, yeah. Mother. Look at that.

HOWELL: -- they find what they're looking for.

LYSSENKO: Drop the buoy.

HOWELL: Drivers drop in and take us down below. They capture these stunning images of a World War II bomber that crashed into Lake Michigan nearly half a century ago.

LYSSENKO: You know, the engine sank first right away, the other part floated a little bit. And the pieces are there but about 100 feet apart.

HOWELL: Back then, the Great Lakes served as a training ground for aircraft carriers and pilots learning to land on the short runways. This SPD Dauntless dive bomber crashed, though the pilot survived.

Salvage expert Taras Lyssenko hopes to raise money to raise the plane and put it on display in Chicago.

LYSSENKO: You show one of these things to a 6-year-old, the first time they see them, their eyes just light up.

HOWELL: A successful mission, finding the submerged plane, but Lyssenko still hopes to recover the wreckage before locating and raising more planes from the World War II era still sitting at the bottom of the Great Lakes. The one thing this team knows for certain, persistence and patient do eventually pay off.

George Howell, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And when we come back, a look at some very touching moments from today's funeral of Officer Wenjian Liu.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The pictures speak for themselves. A sea of blue filling the streets of New York City to say a final goodbye to slain NYPD Officer Wenjian Liu.

Here's a somber look at today's funeral for the officer killed in an ambush two weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): Today is the saddest day in my life. My only son left me. No words can express my sadness. When I was sick he took me to see the doctor right away. He called me every day before he finished work to ensure me that he is safe and to tell me that I'm coming home today. You can stop worrying now.

PEI XIA CHEN, WIDOW OF WENJIAN LIU: He is my soul mate. My best friend. He took pride in the fact that he is NYPD. A caring son, a loving husband. You are an amazing man. Wenjian's my hero. You can always count on him. Again I thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He would go out his way to make sure we are always happy. He brought pride and honor to our family. Even though he is gone he will never be forgotten.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: His commitment was as strong as his purpose was pure. I am honored to be here today to pay tribute to a fallen peacemaker.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: The Buddha imparted a simple lesson. Train yourself to attain peace, he said. That was how Detective Liu lived his life.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK POLICE: We thank the Liu family for sharing him with us. As their guests who mourn with them. We take comfort in the Buddha's words that even when death comes the lessons of goodness do not perish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. That's it for me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The next hour of the NEWSROOM begins right now.