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Interview with Rep. Peter King; Former NY Governor Mario Cuomo Dies At 82; Thirty Bodies Recovered from Airasia Crash

Aired January 2, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, we are remembering former governor of New York, Mario Cuomo, who passed away last night at the age of 82, just hours after his son, Andrew, was sworn into his second term as governor.

Mario Cuomo is one of the great orators and a beacon of liberalism. He was also the father of our NEW DAY anchor and friend, Chris Cuomo. So we're not just talking about the loss of a leader this morning; we're talking about a friend's dad.

And joining us to talk more about that, look back on the life and legacy of Mario Cuomo, Representative Peter King. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee and a Republican from New York.

And Congressman, you were raised in Queens just like Mario Cuomo. From one Queens boy to another, give me your impressions.

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Mario Cuomo was a giant. He really personified the American mosaic, certainly the New York mosaic.

The son of Italian immigrants; basically worked his way up from the streets of New York. And showing that each immigrant group, each ethnic group, each religion played such a vital role in the stained glass window that was the beauty of New York.

And he was proud of his heritage. He was so proud of his mastery of the English language. And you mentioned we are both from Queens. He was from Jamaica. I was from Sunnyside. He went to St. John's Prep. I went to Brooklyn Prep. We were rival schools. Mine was a little better than his -- but seriously -- nobody was as eloquent, nobody was as dedicated. Whatever political differences or philosophical differences we had, really were insignificant when you're dealing with Mario Cuomo. He was a giant.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He would appreciate that jab you just got in there, too, Congressman, you know that.

KING: If you notice I waited until he was gone before I said it.

BERMAN: Talk to me about the Queens in his blood there as it were. How do you think his neighborhood affected him throughout his career? KING: He was always a Queens boy because that, it was hard-working people. That was people who got nothing for nothing. Those were people who had to struggle. Those were people who really knew their ethnic roots. They all had parents or grandparents who were immigrants.

They knew the bias and bigotry they had overcome. They realized that had you to work hard to get ahead and you also realized how important your family was. How important your neighborhood was and how important your values were.

While each ethnic group may had different customs or traditions, it was important to keep them, and also make them part of the American mosaic. That's what Mario Cuomo did he always was who he was. He could have been living in Manhattan. He could have been living in Albany.

The fact is at heart he was always a man of Queens. And by Queens, I'm talking about the working class people. His father had the grocery store. He dealt with all, all sorts of people from different ethnic and religious and racial backgrounds.

That's what you do when you live in a working-class neighborhood. You don't have the luxury of being in a country club or being isolated. You learn to work and live with everyone and it makes you a better person. Mario Cuomo realized that.

BERMAN: So you had the chance to look at him from across the neighborhood, the Queens perspective. What about the Republican perspective? What was it like to be in the opposite party in New York State for Mario Cuomo?

KING: Well, it was tough being on the other side of Mario Cuomo. I actually ran statewide in 1986 for attorney general and he was running for re-election for governor and he steamrolled right over us. Here was a guy who was extremely eloquent, who is extremely tough political in-fighter, who you know, could articulate what he believed in.

And he would -- he was, as worthy an adversary as you could find. But you always felt that you were in the ring with someone who was a champion. And the guy who lost to Joe Louis or the pitcher who gave up a home run to Joe Dimaggio, you were proud to play on the same field, open in the same ring with him.

BERMAN: You're talking about his speech, his oratory, his ability to use words to get his message across. I want to listen to a small clip from the 1984 Democratic National Convention, which really catapulted him up into the national stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIO CUOMO, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: We proclaim as loudly as we can, the utter insanity of nuclear proliferation and the need for a nuclear freeze, if only to affirm the simple truth that peace is better than war because life is better than death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He's talking about nuclear proliferation there. He really was a champion of liberalism. He talked about policies. He talked about politics in a way that really, you don't see that much anymore today.

KING: Yes, and listen, I disagree with many of those policies, but having said that, he always articulated them and compressed them in such a way that it raised the level of debate. It was done in such an intelligent, intellectual way.

And yet, in a manner that could appeal to real people, that as Republicans, we had to counter that. That raised our level of argument. And there you saw Governor Cuomo in effect giving a speech against Ronald Reagan, who is the other great orator on our side.

And to me that's what's missing in politics today. We don't have enough people who can raise the level of debate, who can articulate it from a sense of principle.

No matter what any Republican ever said about Mario Cuomo when they disagreed with his views or his beliefs, no one ever said that he was doing it for any crass reason. That he didn't believe what he was saying. That's what made him such a worthy and difficult adversary to be up against.

Again whether you agreed or disagreed with him, the bottom line was, the level of debate was raised and everyone's game was improved. That to me is the best thing anyone can do in politics, when you have the respect of your opponent and you know you're up against a giant.

BERMAN: He never did choose ultimately to get in the ring to run for president. Seek the Democratic nomination. Had he done that in '88 or '92, do you think he could have won?

KING: Well, he certainly could have. It would have been, it would have been to me like the Lincoln/Douglass debates. A race that people would have talked about forever because again the level of debate, the level of eloquence and the challenge to ideas, of ideas would have been really at a level that we haven't seen for too long.

BERMAN: Representative Peter King, really appreciate you being with us. And I can't help but thinking that one way or another, Governor Cuomo is going to get back at you for jabbing at his high school in Queens.

KING: I'm sure he will, by the way, and the school was in Brooklyn. We lived in Queens, went to school in Brooklyn. So again out of borough all the way.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, Congressman, really appreciate it.

Want to get to Christine Romans now for some of --

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the body count rising in the Airasia crash this morning, 30 victims have now been recovered along with what appears to be a piece of the fuselage though the wreck itself still has not been tracked down.

Malaysia's top Navy chief tweeted out a map showing the most probable area where the wreckage is located. It covers about 2,000 square miles in the Java Sea about the size of Delaware.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is live on the ground with the latest developments -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christine, the wait is increasingly getting more excruciating for so many families. You're right. The body count is now up to 30 that have been recovered. That means there are 132 passengers and crew who are on the plane who have not been recovered. It's all the families want at this point.

Most of them have given up the remote hopes they've had of a miracle. They just want their loved ones' bodies back. Where we're standing now, conditions have been very poor all day. It's raining right now, which gives you an idea of why the search has been canceled today.

They wouldn't be searching now anyway because it's nighttime. You have 40 ships and planes in the sea and above the sea, they've not been able to do their work they're capable of doing over the last six days because the weather conditions have been so poor.

Also there are divers ready to go under. They haven't been able to do so, also because of those weather conditions. Weather is supposed- team prove this weekend -- Christine.

ROMANS: All right, Gary Tuchman, thanks for that, Gary.

Syria had its deadliest year since the civil war broke out nearly four years ago, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights based in the United Kingdom, nearly 80,000 people died last year, including 3,500 children.

The group uses a network of contacts inside Syria to tally casualties and its figures cannot be independently confirmed. The United Nations stopped tallying deaths some time ago.

The wife of a police chief in Georgia is in critical condition this morning. State investigators say William McCollum called 911 early on New Year's morning to say he accidentally shot his wife in their home with his service weapon. The claim is being investigated. He's said to be cooperating with the investigation. McCollum is now on administrative leave.

Call it fate, a coincidence, either way it's almost unbelievable. Raheem Stouffer and his wife, Kianna share their birthdays on New Year's Day, guess what's special delivery arrived just in time to join the New Year's party? Their first baby, Autumn Rain Stouffer. A local TV station estimates the odds of the birthday trifecta one in 48 million.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So you're saying I have a chance.

ROMANS: Autumn Rain Stouffer. What a beautiful name. PEREIRA: That husband has no excuse to forget his wife's birthday because it's his and his baby girls.

ROMANS: How you going to squeeze all the names on the cake every year.

BERMAN: Do you think you plan for that? Well, I mean I can think of a couple of ways.

ROMANS: John Berman.

BERMAN: Do you think they looked at the calendar?

ROMANS: Everyone is giggling at your use of -- you're making me blush.

PEREIRA: This is a reversal of things. Normally it's us making this man blush.

All right, 30 minutes past the hour. We know the U.S. military is gearing up to assist in the search for Flight 8501. One warship is involved in the search. Another one is on its way. We are going to discuss the mission ahead for our military.

BERMAN: Plus, search teams set to scour a 2,000 square-mile search zone. But the weather is making things incredibly difficult. We'll discuss how that affects the underwater search as well. Stay with us.

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PEREIRA: Welcome back. We have several new developments this morning for you in the Airasia crash. Officials have established now a 2,000 square-mile zone where they believe it is likely that the wreckage will be found. A U.S. naval ship is already in the region. A second one has been deployed from Singapore to aid in the search.

Joining me to discuss what goes into a mission like this is retired U.S. Army general and CNN military analyst, James "Spider" Marks. Good to have you with us, sir.

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hi, Michaela. Happy New Year.

PEREIRA: Happy New Year to you. OK, so they've been not officially tasked with the search efforts obviously, but the U.S. military lending to the efforts. We highlighted the fact that the "Samson" is already on scene. But we know the "USS Fort Worth" is being deployed from Singapore. Give us an idea of the capability of that military asset?

MARKS: You know, both of these ships, one is a destroyer. I don't know what the other one is, but what this primarily does is this gives a command and control capability that allows within that platform, access to National Intelligence Collection capab capabilities, as well as all assets that are in the area, working on the search and rescue operation that's taking place right now. So it's access to an incredible amount of capabilities.

PEREIRA: The "USS Sampson" actually helped in the recovery of the two of the bodies. They say the deceased have been treated with all regards to the customs and of the religion and transferred in with respect to how the Indonesians would like it done.

We think that's fantastic and it just speaks to the scope of such an international effort, the magnitude of such a search effort and an investigation effort.

MARKS: Absolutely. It really shows you the cooperation that takes place, again in this part of the world, there's no over-arching military arrangement in terms of how the Indonesians, the Malaysians would work together in concert with what's taking place in Thailand, in terms of assets that they may be providing in Singapore as well.

So these bilateral relationships are based on trust, and confidence, proximity and arrangements that have been in place for many, many years. So there is a great amount of respect among all of the nations and certainly focused in on the real human face of the tragedy.

PEREIRA: Great coordinated effort. However mother nature not cooperating. It's been such a factor. Weather has been such a factor. Because of it, the aerial operations are often suspended. We know the P-8 is there and able to assist.

But again, not able to fly when search conditions or weather conditions don't cooperate, talk to bus the capabilities of the fantastic technology on board.

MARKS: Yes, the P-8 Poseidon is an incredible capability. It can have almost any sensor pod you want to put on the bottom of that thing. It has signals intelligence, electronic intelligence capabilities. It can go after the black box and refine the search area, where that thing might be.

Realize there aren't a whole bunch of those p-8s, they were designed to go after what we call existing standing intelligence requirements so those other requirements that the intelligence community would like to have serviced, can't be serviced at this point.

Because they're going after this very important mission here in the Java Sea so as long as the weather prohibits that thing from flying, and if this were to continue for a while, the United States at some point might come back and say look we've got to divert the aircraft to some other missions, we can bring it back when the weather opens audiotape little bit.

MARKS: It sounds like they'll get better weather this weekend so hopefully that will help. Talking about the area, the 2,000 square- mile area that they've refocused search efforts. You think there's more than can be done from the U.S. in terms of aiding right now? You think we're right where we should be?

PEREIRA: Well, there's always more you'd like to be able to do. The challenge here again is, what are the resources can be used that aren't already deployed. But because of existing conditions, aren't being maximized right now?

We don't know that the United States could do much more than it has. Certainly somebody might think, under surface, there might be some involvement a little bit more. But the United States does, does not declare where it's submarine force is located.

So you're not going to see that capability. But certainly there's radar, signals intelligence capability. Sonar buoys that can be put on the surface and subsurface to go help further refine this area.

If the weather holds, the search area could expand, the debris field might in fact migrate and expand a little bit because of the choppy conditions.

PEREIRA: And those currents playing a part. General Spider Marks, always pleasure to have you with us.

The tougher weather is hampering the search for the doomed jet. We'll take a look into how the underwater search something affected. Straight ahead.

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ROMANS: The body count is rising in the Airasia crash, 30 bodies now recovered along with a window panel from the fuselage. You could see it there, despite a search, severely hampered by weather, they are moving forward here.

Search teams have now established a 2,000 square mile search zone where they'll focus their effort to find this plane. For more on the underwater search I want to bring in Tim Taylor, sea operations and submersible specialist, and president of Tiburon Subsea Systems.

He rents ROVs and AUVs, types useful for a search for 8501. Thank you for being here. I want to start first with the search zone because this is the new information this morning, they narrowed to 2,000 square miles based on where they've seen the debris.

Where they think this flight could be, the size of that search, half of the size of Los Angeles, it's the size of Delaware. Give me a sense of how difficult that is.

TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT, TIBURON SUBSEA SYSTEMS: Well, it can be done. It just takes time and with this weather pattern, time is not a luxury. So if you are saying, if you are hiring me to do this job, I would pick a different time of year.

ROMANS: Well, you can't pick the time of year. This is what they're dealing with right now. Let's talk about the depth and the current, another interesting part of this story. We know that shallow depths are coming into play here, about 100 feet. How difficult does that make it with the currents, the shallow depth with these currents for investigators?

TAYLOR: Currents are going to be a lot more prevalent than in the deep water, like Flight 370, but what you do have is runoff from the land and the turbidity of the water and the currents mix it up and keep it suspended.

ROMANS: Island of Borneo and the water is coming right off.

TAYLOR: Once you find it you have to recover black boxes and bodies it's extremely difficult that you can't see.

ROMANS: Are you worried about the debris moving?

TAYLOR: At that depth, 100 feet or deep probably not. If it was a hurricane, it can move things like that, it can pick up large objects but at that depth, not really.

ROMANS: So you're worried about the divers, worried about 13-foot swells and people trying to get off the dive, getting into the water.

TAYLOR: Right. We call it a splash zone. When you enter gear off the deck of your boat and put it into the water, we call it the splash zone. Once it's in the water, the hydrodynamic properties of the water pull that gear and when you put in divers in and out of the water you have a platform or a boat going up and down ten feet at a time it's extremely dangerous.

ROMANS: Let's talk about underwater noise, a French investigation team sent sophisticated equipment going to try to locate the black boxes. Unlike a deep water search for MH370, this is a shallow water search. Currents, water, is that going to interfere with the acoustics at all?

TAYLOR: The shallow water area is much noisier. You have rain on the top of the water, makes noise. Boat propellers make noise and lots of small fishing boats potentially. Waves on shore make noise and biological stuff, fish, crabs cracking, so all that is background noise and it's extremely hard to hear things when lots of things are screaming at you so it adds a level of complications.

ROMANS: I have to say, some six days now since this flight has been underwater, 24 more days where the pinger is going to, pinger locator is going to be gone. Are you confident that they've narrowed this down to be able to find these black boxes?

TAYLOR: Even the 2000 square mile search is narrowed enough --

ROMANS: It seems too big when you think of it as the half size of Los Angeles and a big ocean.

TAYLOR: I would say the pingers are important because we want to recover the bodies not the black boxes. So the black boxes we can find next summer if we have to, they'll still be viable and they will be correct and question narrow the search area, but the important thing is finding the bodies so the black boxes are a secondary thing and will be found anyway.

ROMANS: All right, Tim Taylor thank you very much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, thank you very much, Christine. We're going to have much more on the search for Flight 8501. This morning we're mourning the loss of an American giant and we pay tribute to the incredible life of former New York Governor Mario Cuomo next.

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