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Mario Cuomo Dies Just after Son Sworn in as Governor; Interview with Former NJ Governor Tom Kean; 30 Bodies Recovered from AirAsia Flight

Aired January 2, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The tributes are pouring in all sides of the political world. Former President Bill Clinton calling Cuomo's life a blessing. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, a Republican, calls Cuomo, a giant. They're among the millions of Americans this morning remembering a true American great.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): Simply, it was the American dream. The son of Italian immigrants, Mario Cuomo rose from the basement of this grocery store in South Jamaica, Queens, where he slept on the floor and spoke no English, to the highest office in New York state -- along the way, creating a political legacy and dynasty that spanned generations. His life driven by a passion for learning, his Catholic faith and a determination to simply work harder than the other guy.

MARIO CUOMO, FMR. GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: One of the simple things I wanted to achieve is I want to be governor. I want to be the hardest working there ever was.

BERMAN: After more than a decade of the full-contact politics of New York -- Cuomo catapulted to national prominence with the keynote address at the 1984 Democratic National Convention.

M. CUOMO: We thank you for the great privilege of being able to address this convention.

BERMAN: He challenged head-on Ronald Reagan's notion of a shining city on a hill, instead, calling America a tale of two cities.

M. CUOMO: We must get the American public to look past the glitter, beyond the showmanship, to the reality, the hard substance of things, and we'll do it not so much with speeches that sound good. As with speeches that are good and sound.

BERMAN: It cemented him as one of his generation's greatest orators, a defender of the have-notes and the little guys. It also made him the choice of many Democratic leaders to run for president.

M. CUOMO: He said, "Will you think about it?"

I said, "I have been thinking about it."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But are you going to think about it anymore?

BERMAN: He was considered a favorite for the Democratic nomination in both 1988 and 1992. But in both cases, he demurred. His seeming inability to decide on higher office frustrated Democratic Party faithful and become something of a punchline in itself.

JAY LENO, COMEDIAN/FORMER HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": And Mario Cuomo, and no one knows what he's going to do. That's -- I don't know if you've seen this new public service commercial for New York City. It says, "A mind is a terrible thing to make up." Yes.

BERMAN: He said it wasn't indecisiveness that kept him in New York instead of Washington; it was his commitment to the state.

M. CUOMO: It has nothing to do with my chances. It has everything to do with my job as governor, and I don't see that I can do both. Therefore, I will not pursue the presidency.

BERMAN: He said it was that same commitment that led him to pass on a nomination to the Supreme Court, deciding instead to run for a fourth term as governor.

But 12 years was enough for New York. He was defeated by George Pataki in the Republican revolution of 1994. Cuomo returned to the private sector to restart his law practice, host a radio show and become a prolific author and public speaker.

And in 2010 came a brand-new title, former or first Governor Cuomo. A word he would be forced to use, because he was suddenly no longer the only one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the Cuomo family.

BERMAN: In a bittersweet irony, his eldest son, Andrew, the current governor of New York, was sworn in to a second term just hours before his father's death.

ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: He couldn't be here, physically today, my father. But my father is in this room. He's in the heart and mind of every person who is here. He's here and he's here. And his inspiration and his legacy and his experience is what has brought this state to this point. So let's give him a round of applause.

BERMAN: Governor Mario Cuomo, a true American giant, was 82. He is survived by his wife of more than 60 years, Matilda Raffa Cuomo; his five children, including our CNN NEW DAY anchor, Chris; and 14 grandchildren. The constants of his life, always faith and family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: What a wonderful picture that is.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I love that picture. And it's so interesting how the three of them, the two sons, sound so much like their father. BERMAN: They do.

PEREIRA: We've seen their mannerisms. They very much are like their dad.

BERMAN: I feel like I've been lectured by Mario Cuomo, sitting at that desk for a very long time.

Joining us now by phone is former governor of New Jersey Tom Kean. His term -- or his two terms, from 1982 to 1990, overlapped with Governor Mario Cuomo.

Good morning, Governor Kean. Thanks so much for being with us.

TOM KEAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY (via phone): Happy to be here.

BERMAN: You, of course, are a Republican. And served as the Republican governor of New Jersey for two terms. But you were a tri- state governor along with Mario Cuomo. What are your impressions of this man?

KEAN: Well, he was a unique political figure. Out of all the people I knew in government of politics, I think I admired him more and probably enjoyed his company more. We spent a lot of time together and all that time was fruitful and valuable. And you know, like everybody else, I'm going to miss him a lot.

BERMAN: You said you admired him more than almost anyone else you ran across in politics. And after a long career, I'm wondering, why that is. What made him such a source of admiration for you?

KEAN: Well, a number of reasons. First of all, I think the bottom line was it was always -- when he and I used to have lunch and dinner together almost once every six weeks or two months when we were both in office, talk about the problems of the two states. And we'd get into a lot of other things. But as we'd talk about policy, as we'd talk about problems, the bottom line for Mario Cuomo was always what was right. It wasn't what was politically right. It wasn't what will help me in my career or this or that. It was always what's the right thing to do?

And in making those decisions, he would bring in this vast knowledge. Because he was a -- the pleasure of being with him, you could talk about anything. It wasn't just politics. You could you talk about history, and he was an historian. He was a scholar. He was a Lincoln expert. You could talk about philosophy. He knew that. You could talk about religion. You could talk about sports. He had this vast knowledge of all these subjects, which he brought into his decision- making, into his conversation. And it was part of the pleasure of his company.

BERMAN: You know, you say he liked sports. Chris always used to talk about, you know, what an incredible athlete he was. He loved to play. But he really had to win. He really only wanted to play if he could win. Governor, I want to play you some sound -- and John Hoover, if you

could listen to me, this is the second piece of sound we were talking about right now -- about how Governor Cuomo said he wanted to be remembered. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. CUOMO: One of the simple things I wanted to achieve is I want to be governor, I want to be the hardest-working there ever was. And I want when it's over, and I figured on four years at first, I want people to say, "Now there was an honest person."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's what any good public servant wants, isn't it, Governor?

KEAN: Yes, but he was real. There are a lot of -- a lot of people, frankly, in politics, as you and I probably both know who, it's not that they're bad people but there are other bottom lines. And they're not -- he was totally honest. His word was good.

When he said something to me, when we were talking about what authority should do or something like that, he gave me his word. That was gold. I mean that word -- and it didn't matter if it was politically right. One time he told me, you know, agreed to do something and then it turned out New York City didn't like it and Mayor Koch was complaining about it and giving him problems.

I called him and said, "If you want to back off a bit."

And he said, "I gave you my word. It's the right thing to do, and we're going to go ahead and do it." He didn't care about political consequences; it was the right thing to do. That's what Mario Cuomo did.

BERMAN: Imagine that.

KEAN: Made it so wonderful.

BERMAN: Imagine giving your word and keeping it in politics. Governor, of course...

KEAN: That's right.

BERMAN: ... Mario Cuomo was also a gifted speaker and orator. He gave the keynote address at the 1984 Democratic National Convention. I want to play one small part of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. CUOMO: There is despair, Mr. President. In the faces that you don't see. In the places that you don't visit. In your shining city. In fact, Mr. President, this is a nation -- Mr. President, you ought to know that this nation is more a tale of two cities than it is just a shining city on a hill. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now Governor Kean, you actually gave the Republican keynote four years after this. So you know the kind of pressure and the spotlight that that was.

You know, it is interesting, after Governor Cuomo gave that speech, a very famous speech, taking Ronald Reagan on head-on, Reagan went to win 49 states. It was almost as if, you know, he gave a great speech, Governor Cuomo did, that America loved, but they didn't necessarily agree with the message.

KEAN: No, and you didn't have to always. He didn't always have to agree with Mario Cuomo. You know, he said what was in his heart, was in his soul and in his mind. And that was it. And that's why you admired him so much.

Interestingly enough, you know, in that Republican, I was scared to death giving the keynote speech. So I called up Mario. We were friends, and I called them up and said help and give me some advice. So he gave me some advice. And then after that advice, he said, "And you know, the guy who did a lot of the work in that convention for me was my son. Call him." So I called Andrew. He gave me some more advice. But they were both very helpful. But he was -- he's, in addition to everything else, when he was your friend, he was a good friend. Nothing he couldn't do for you.

BERMAN: Governor, that's a terrific story. Governor Tom Kean, former governor of New Jersey, thanks so much for being with us, helping us remember former Governor Mario Cuomo, who passed away at the age of 82, the father of our good friend, Chris.

PEREIRA: So interesting to hear these great stories.

BERMAN: Terrific, terrific memories to go around.

PEREIRA: Wonderful.

BERMAN: All right. We turn to our other big story, new developments coming this morning in the AirAsia crash. Thirty bodies have now been recovered.

The first apparent piece of the fuselage has reportedly been found. This was posted online by the defense minister of Singapore. The search for more victims is set to intensify, weather permitting. Weather certainly is not cooperating. A top Indonesian official says the search area now has been focused now to a more focused area, a 2,000 square-mile zone in the Java Sea.

Let's head right now to Gary Tuchman. He's live on the ground in Indonesia.

Hello, Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Michaela. And you're right, 30 bodies have now been recovered. That number went

up from 22 just a half hour ago, the official announcement just made to us. So that still leaves 132 passengers who have to be found.

There are many sad stories that are being told here. But one thing that I can tell you is that a lot of people thought over the last few days that perhaps there would be a miracle in store, that the loved ones would be found, perhaps on a raft, perhaps on an uninhabited piece of land. Very few people think that now. They just want their loved ones' bodies back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Breaking overnight: Malaysian officials aiding in the search tell CNN this is the most probable location of AirAsia Flight 8501, an area just over 2,000 square miles.

Keeping a close eye on the weather that has hampered efforts for days, crews have yet to discover the crucial black boxes needed to solve the mystery of the crash, and the clock is ticking in the race to find them. The battery powering the acoustic pingers, used to locate the black boxes, have about 24 days until they expire. At least three ships using underwater pinger locator devices are set to comb the area.

And new this morning: Indonesian authorities have identified the bodies of three more victims, bringing the total number of people identified to four.

The journey back home for the first identified victim of the crash came Thursday. The body of a woman, a teacher, was laid to rest in a tearful ceremony, her grieving family struggling to cope as her body was lowered into the ground.

In the early morning hours off the coast of Indonesia, search teams making another painful trip back to shore, carrying the remains of more victims from the AirAsia flight and pieces of debris from the wreckage.

Also aiding in the search, the American USS Sampson, recovering two bodies from the Java Sea yesterday. At the hospital in Surabaya, the race to identify other victims is of most importance for relatives. It is here where they will undergo autopsies before heading back to their families.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: We've covered a lot of these tragedies over the years, but there are always very unique sad stories to tell. One in this case is this: most of the passengers on the plane were from Indonesia. Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim nation. But on this plane were 46 people who are all members of the same small protestant denomination here in Indonesia. It's nearly one-third of the total of the people who died in this terrible accident were from that small church -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: That small church, that nation, grieving, as are so many in light of that disaster. Gary, thank you for bringing that to us.

AirAsia's CEO Fernandes is meeting this morning with family members of the passenger and the crew that were aboard that doomed flight. Fourteen of the victims have now arrived back on land. The first funeral has now taken place.

Let's get right to Andrew Stevens with more on that part of the story.

Hi, Andrew.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michaela.

Well, I'm actually out here at the naval air base of the international air force. And we're expecting bodies to be coming past here, taken into the Surabaya police hospital at any moment now.

But what has -- what's interesting about here at the moment is they're helping in the logistics to get that search operation at its most effective, if you like. And what we've been hearing today is still those weather conditions very, very challenging, is the word they're using now. It's a little better than yesterday, but still very challenging.

They have, though, narrowed this search focus down to 2,000 square miles. That's roughly about half the size of metropolitan Los Angeles. Just to put it in perspective there.

And the issue now is, because the weather remains bad, everything is all about underwater searches. So they're getting the sophisticated equipment in there. They're getting the sonar equipment. It's called side-scan sonar, very important piece of equipment to have in searches like this.

They've also got some very sophisticated acoustic listening devices to get those pings from the black boxes. You said earlier in the report that there may have been a sighting or a sounding, an acoustic sounding on a piece of the main fuselage. We've been hearing it could be the tail of the aircraft. But nothing confirmed at the moment. They need divers to get down there to actually eyeball it. That's what we're being told. But the divers can't go down; the seas are too bad. Helicopters can't get them out there.

So the frustrations continue, likely to continue through until at least Sunday, too, if this weather continues as it is expected to over the next few days.

PEREIRA: Yes, bad mix. You know, that emotion, the frustration, and the urgency obviously, but of course, they've been down this road before. All right. Andrew, thanks so much for that.

Fourteen minutes past the hour, let's get to Christine Romans. She's here with the rest of the headlines today.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to both of you.

Good Friday morning, first day of the new year. Hundreds of migrants apparently abandoned by smugglers had to be rescued after they were stranded on a cargo ship drifting through the rough seas in the Mediterranean. Coast Guard officials secured the ship. It's being towed to shore off the southern coast of Italy. It's the second cargo ship full of migrants to be abandoned while still sailing this week.

Cleveland officials want the county sheriff's office to take over the probe of a controversial police shooting. Twelve-year-old Tamir Rice was killed in November. Surveillance video showed an officer shot him about two seconds -- two seconds -- after getting out of his patrol car. The child was carrying an air-powered pellet gun. The city now wants an outside agency to handle all deadly use of force cases.

Chick-Fil-A warning customers about a possible data breach. The fast- food chain said it found some unusual activity involving credit cards used in a few of its restaurants. The company hasn't said when it happened or how many people could be affected. A spokesperson said the chain is working with law enforcement and cybersecurity experts to get more information.

And I made a very grave error at the beginning of that report. It's not the first day.

PEREIRA: Second.

ROMANS: It's the second day of the new year.

PEREIRA: That's all right. I mean...

BERMAN: It started slowly for you, obviously.

ROMANS: The first trading day of the new year.

PEREIRA: There you go.

ROMANS: I stand corrected.

PEREIRA: That means it was a good New Year's celebration for you.

ROMANS: There you go.

PEREIRA: All right.

Ahead, the search for Flight 8501 is intensifying. A piece of the fuselage appears to have popped up as crews get set to scour a massive portion of the Java Sea. Although it is pinpointed as the most probable area to find the plane's wreckage. We'll have more details for you ahead.

BERMAN: And our NEW DAY family and millions across the country mourning the loss of a giant. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo has passed away. We'll look back at his life and enduring legacy. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Thirty bodies have now been recovered in the search for Flight 8501. We are just learning that search crews have recovered a piece of the plane's fuselage. Here it is: likely a window panel. An image of it was posted online by the defense minister of Singapore.

Officials have also now established a search area. It narrowed it down to about 2,000 square miles. Seems smaller, but it isn't. That's a vast amount of space. Thirteen-foot waves, though, are hampering the effort. For more, let's bring in Richard Quest, CNN aviation correspondent.

I want to start obviously, Richard, with the finding -- the posting of this image.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

PEREIRA: It looks as though it's a window panel. Is this significant to you? Is it par for the course? What is your thought?

QUEST: It's certainly par for the course. This is absolutely what one would expect. The debris from an aircraft that's crashed into the sea that will float. And these panels most certainly will float.

Why it is significant is because you can identify which panel it is. The experts will able to look at it.

PEREIRA: Right side, left side?

QUEST: They'll be able to tell you where it should have been on the aircraft. And from that, you can start to work out again, where the -- what happened to the aircraft. Or more importantly, where the plane may have come down.

PEREIRA: So they can look at where they located it, where the currents and they can map how the currents move.

QUEST: Yes. But it's not because it's a window piece.

PEREIRA: It doesn't matter.

QUEST: Right. Right.

PEREIRA: It's because it's a piece of the plane.

QUEST: A piece of the plane. They can work out where it would be.

Why you might actually get a little bit more information from it is if you look at the break-off points, but it's too soon to say that. You'd need more -- you would need more pieces to know whether that broke off in air, or whether it broke off on the ground. Whether in the collision with the water, that sort of thing.

PEREIRA: A piece of the puzzle, though.

QUEST: It is. Absolutely. But there will be dozens, hundreds of pieces of this puzzle.

PEREIRA: I think this is the point of frustration for those of us that are feeling that anxiety about why we can't find the fuselage: so they can find the all-important data recorder, so that we can understand why the plane crashed. They can use some of these findings to work back where the plane might have gone in. And is that what they're doing now?

QUEST: That's exactly what they're doing. They're just not...

PEREIRA: Why haven't they located it?

QUEST: Because it takes time. This is not -- I urge anybody who is frustrated about the slowness of the procedure, to go out into the middle of the sea and take a look.

Now last week I was on a ship and, you know, knowing this story and covering this story, I just stood on the deck of the ship, and I looked out. And I thought, you know, one degree in that direction, one degree in that direction or in that direction, and you're talking serious amounts of water.

PEREIRA: Despite the fact that it's shallow water?

QUEST: It's not! It's relatively shallow. It's 100 feet. This studio is 30, 40 feet. Now imagine three or four times the height of this studio that it's going to be. And now you've got to get and find it.

But there's no good news, but the encouraging part of this is that they are in the right area. Now, look, it may take them another day, another week. There is a time scale, and we know that the pingers will run out.

PEREIRA: Yes. Let's talk about that.

QUEST: They'll run out in 25 days, but even if they were to run out. I'm going to go out slightly; be a little bit more outspoken on this. Even if they were to run out in a month's time, we know the area of the plane.

PEREIRA: Which puts us far ahead of where they were even in the early days of MH-370.

QUEST: We know the area. The water is relatively shallow compared to, say, 447 and certainly 370. So even if everything goes against them, God forbid, they will be able to find this by putting assets into the water. Two thousand square miles is nothing.

PEREIRA: Is manageable.

QUEST: It's nothing compared to what they've had to search for 370. Or for 447.

PEREIRA: And it's interesting. You say, look, 100 feet is nothing to sneeze at, but comparatively again to MH-370, uncharted, extremely deep. Extremely cavernous depths and landscape on the ocean floor. This isn't quite as much. But the ocean there is noisy. There's a lot of traffic. It's going

to make it more difficult, especially with the currents that are going through there.

QUEST: But they're in the right area.

PEREIRA: Again we have to focus on that.

QUEST: So you know, you're not -- you found the haystack.

PEREIRA: Right.

QUEST: And it's not a big haystack and the needle is quite large, and you're already finding bits of the needle. And you can reverse drift those bits of the needle back to where the rest of it may all be. And you are getting good clues already.

PEREIRA: Can I sidebar on something? It just occurred to me. You remember when we were talking about MH-370? We talked about the fact that the engine makers, Boeing, that they separately and independently would receive from the engines.

QUEST: Yes. This system that I believe AirAsia used...

PEREIRA: It's not the same.

QUEST: ... it's not the same system, and it didn't necessarily transmit the data in real-time.

PEREIRA: OK.

QUEST: It may have transmitted it once it landed or at other points. This aircraft was being -- their aircrafts are being graded in the systems that they're using. The biggest issue is why it's not transmitting position to the Nth degree in real-time.

PEREIRA: Right.

QUEST: That's the issue that aviation is grappling with.

PEREIRA: They have to look at.

QUEST: There is no excuse not to get on and do it.

PEREIRA: Let's focus on the fact, though, again, you've said they are -- you feel they're going to find it. We've already had 30 bodies recovered. That is an immense relief for the families. Not the relief they were hoping for. But it is at least a process that they can begin the mourning stages now. Thirty bodies found.

The weather is set to cooperate, we're told; cooperate more in the next few days, although it's not ideal today.

Richard Quest, thanks so much for being here again to walk us through this...

QUEST: Thank you.

PEREIRA: ... and talk about the significance of the found parts -- John.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, Michaela.

Some somber news this morning as we learn of the passing of former New York governor, Mario Cuomo. We are paying tribute to the life of an American giant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)