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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

NYPD Funerals; Threatening NYPD

Aired December 26, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to this holiday edition of LEGAL VIEW. It's nice to have you with us.

New York City is about to be flooded with blue, police officers. It's going to be an absolute flood of brotherhood and respect and support, but also a lot of sadness because upwards of 25,000 officers are going to be in this city and it's all in honor of these two men, NYPD Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos. These policemen, these partners, were shot to death in their patrol car last weekend. Officer Ramos' funeral is scheduled for tomorrow. That's where the crowd of police is expected to gather, from across the country, in fact. Details of Liu's service have not yet been announced, but there will be something to honor that man as well.

I want to take you live now to Miguel Marquez, who is live in Queens, where tomorrow's wake and funeral for Rafael Ramos will be held.

Miguel, it's just an incredible number of people that are expected to come out, but particularly the number of officers, from around the country that will be in attendance tomorrow. Walk me through this.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. When you see -- if you've seen in New York a funeral before of -- an NYPD funeral before, you know what grand and emotional affairs they are. Because this case, because these officers have been so focused on nationwide, you have thousands of officers coming in from around the country to be here. That's typically the case, but this will probably be the biggest funeral yet. In 2011, they had about 20,000 police officers at a funeral. They're expecting upwards of 25,000 police officers, in addition to the thousands of others who were coming to see this funeral.

I want to say, we are two hours from this wake beginning. There's already a line forming here at Christ Tabernacle Church. And if you pan across to the front doors of this church, you can see that there are officers in their blues. We expect that the casket of Officer Rafael Ramos will be arriving here any moment.

I can tell you that Secret Service is also on hand for Vice President Biden's appearance here tomorrow. And so it is all kicking up, the energy here, the people and the sense of the community here in Queens. I think a lot of pride here in Queens that this is happening here and that they want to have as respectful and as emotional a tribute to this officer as possible. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Miguel, as I understand it, when we're talking about the different kinds of ways that Officer Ramos will be memorialized, 2:00 p.m. today will be the wake. And then, correct me if I'm wrong, 7:00 p.m. tonight, a memorial for Officer Ramos and then the funeral services, 10:00 tomorrow morning. Is that an accurate schedule?

MARQUEZ: Yes, this -- there's a prescheduled mass at 7:00 p.m. tonight. So the wake begins at 2:00 p.m. today. It goes until the mass at 7:00. But the mass will be set especially for Officer Ramos. So, really, until 9:00 p.m. will be this wake tonight. And then tomorrow morning, at 10:00 a.m., you know, they'll present colors. There will be a procession here. This entire area here will be filled with blue. Tens and thousands of police officers, well-wishers, family, friends and then up Cyprus Hill Street here, that will be lined with police officers as they say good-bye to one of their own.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then I'd love it if you could just touch on the seven men who were arrested, apparently making threats against the NYPD. I mean I've heard the reports, as high as 40 threats since the execution of those two officers have come in.

MARQUEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: But that maybe half of them were considered, you know, credible enough to follow up on. But these are seven arrests. Are there going to be more and what are the nature of those who have been arrested?

MARQUEZ: Seven of them. Two of them were for people making false 9/11 calls. Three of them were for people posting on social media, as shocking as it is that people were posting threats on social media where police could easily find that. Something police are watching very carefully. Two of the others, one was somebody making a phone call at a bank, somebody else overheard it and he was threatening the 104th precinct. And then the last one was the - somebody was threatening, called into the 84th precinct and made a direct threat against that precinct. That is the precinct where both Officers Liu and Ramos worked. So to have somebody call in there and make that sort of threat, it is beyond shocking.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: We're about an hour, or 55 minutes or so from the start of that wake. I'm going to ask you to keep an eye out for that moment that is always so poignant when Officer Ramos' casket is brought into the church behind you and we'll hopefully be able to get our live cameras trained on this image as well.

In the meantime, could you repeat for me - I heard some great reporting you had earlier on about JetBlue, the airline, and what it's planning to do to bring officers from around the country to the place where you are. MARQUEZ: Yes, JetBlue doing a couple of things. One, they are working

with their partner airlines because they don't fly overseas, their partner airlines to bring Officer Liu's family from China to the U.S. Separately, the airline here in the U.S. is -- has offered anyone on their route, law enforcement, that they would bring two members of each law enforcement department from around the country to New York. Six hundred people, approximately, is what JetBlue is going to bring into New York. That will be part of that 25,000 NYPD is preparing for.

I'm just looking down the street here because we believe that that casket is arriving soon.

If we could, let's -- I want to show you this -- the church one more time. And if you come all the way over here, they've now blocked off the road here for the first time today in anticipation of the casket arriving. So it is really beginning to be a much more intense period of activity here at Christ Tabernacle Church in Queens.

BANFIELD: It looks like a lot of the officers in your shot, Miguel, are in formal uniform. You can see the white gloves that you often see at these very somber occasions. But I have to ask you about those who might be there on duty because any time there is an instance like this, we still have to be more than aware that it can also be a target, either for those who are on this same mission as those who are arrested for making threats against the police in the wake of the assassinations of these officers, or the other nefarious threats that have come in from overseas. ISIS' threat to take officers down or any Americans down anywhere they are. What about the detail that's been assigned, as opposed to those who are there for the formal reasons?

MARQUEZ: This is something that NYPD is keenly aware of and they have been watching threats of all sorts, not only on social media, the more obvious ones. But, you know, for some time, they have been on the ISIS threats and perhaps more exotic or foreign threats to this city as well. Despite the number of police that they have here, what they typically do is they bring in other police forces in order to take on some of those jobs that will relieve NYPD officers so they can attend this sort of thing. But those critical functions of NYPD will certainly remain in operation.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I know that Officer Ramos was married. He had two children, Justin and Jayden. What are the plans for Officer Ramos' family? And have you seen them or any extended family arrive at this early hour?

MARQUEZ: We've not seen the family yet. I can tell you that, aside from JetBlue, the amount of outpouring from this city has been spectacular. Tens of thousands of dollars raised. The Tunnels to the Towers organization has just announced that they are going to pick up the money for the housing for both these officers, their mortgages. Mayor Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, has just pledged $10,000 or $20,000, $10,000 each family, literally individuals and businesses coming together with tens and thousands of dollars.

The oldest son, Justin Ramos, goes to Bodewin (ph) College. They -- that college has offered -- he's a sophomore now. That college has offered -- has offered him to pay for his tuition for the rest of his college education. The kids are Mets fans. The Mets have offered to bring them to spring training for -- any time that they want. So it's opened up an enormous door for this family. But the cost to them is so incredibly high and so difficult.

I can tell you there is an uptick in activity here and I think that the casket of Officer Ramos will be - will be arriving shortly, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: It looks like the officers are getting into some kind of formation. Certainly a little informal right now, but ramping up perhaps for the arrival of that casket.

As we wait for that, Miguel, maybe if I could ask you, I don't know, in a somber - you know, at a somber event, it's sometimes awkward or uncomfortable to ask people questions, but is there any way to know who the people are who are waiting in line, if they're family friends or if they are just citizens who want to come out to honor him, any idea who they are and why they've come?

MARQUEZ: I spoke to a few earlier. Most of the folks here are people from the neighborhood who have come out because they want to say good- bye to him personally. Some people from the neighborhood came up to me and said that they were concerned that the world would see this as a problem for them, as though they were being put out by all of the attention on Queens. They want people to know that they support the NYPD, that they've come out to say their farewell to Officer Ramos, and they are representing the neighborhood.

The police that are here, I believe that most, if not all of these guys are from the 84th precinct where they served a very proud duty and a very tough duty for them to be here in order to share these moments with the family and with the city and with their fellow officers.

BANFIELD: I want to - I just want to read, as we're looking at this group developing sort of behind you, the officers and the civilians alike who are assembling, if you're just joining us, this is a live picture in New York. I think I just heard them called to attention as the casket of Officer Ramos will be arriving at any moment now. This is the beginning of the memorial services.

MARQUEZ: Ashleigh, we're going to - we're going to --

BANFIELD: Go ahead, Miguel.

MARQUEZ: We're going to move the camera just a bit so we can get a good shot here. We're going to move the camera just a bit. Here comes the casket. These individuals have now come to attention. The police officers who are gathered here. And if you can look down the streets, you can see that the casket is being accompanied by a line of police officers.

BANFIELD: Miguel is reporting -

MARQUEZ: ON both sides of the casket.

BANFIELD: And I just want to remind people, Miguel, you're reporting live from Glendale, New York. And this scene is just outside the Christ Tabernacle Church. Let's just listen in as the casket arrives.

Those six pallbearers taking the casket inside that church. Such a poignant and emotional moment for those officers on your screen, for the thousands upon thousands who are watching this image, for those who have turned out from the community just in support, neither family nor friend, just community members.

Officer Ramos' casket arriving at the Christ Tabernacle Church in the Glendale community in New York. That flag you may have noticed, the green flag that was draped on that casket, accompanied by the American flag. The green flag signifies the NYPD's service to five boroughs of New York.

Our Miguel Marquez is still reporting live outside of that church.

Miguel, watching it on TV is one thing. Watching the silence and hearing the emotion in the silence, it must be something else being there.

MARQUEZ: It is always difficult to watch grown men cry. It is incredibly difficult to watch cops, you know, these NYPD tough guys and the emotion that they have watching one of their own taken in this way.

This case in particular because of the way these two were assassinated I think has been particularly bad. The fact that you have the protests and this anger and this strife across the country and here in New York has been tough. But to see this little section of Queens come to a stop, to see the police lining the way already at every moment showing the upmost respect for Officer Ramos, it is - it's a sight to behold.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And if I can, I'd like to take this moment, I mean let's remember that this is a New York City police officer, but he's also a father and a husband. And, in fact, his two sons, Justin and Jayden, almost certain to be present, if not already present. But his teenage son Jayden put a FaceBook posting up several days ago and it's so poignant. He says, "today is the worst day of my life." He said, "today I had to say bye to my father. He was there for me every day of my life. He was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. Everyone says they hate cops, but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. R.I.P., dad."

It's hard to remember that there is that very sad, tragic family dynamic that's playing out amidst these colleagues who are also heartbroken that one of their own was gunned down in such a senseless way with his colleague as well. The casket of Rafael Ramos, better known to those men and the men who served with him and his family and friends as Ralph. As he's taken in, we're going to just show you these pictures. Again, six pallbearers with the New York City green flag draped over the coffin and the United States of America flag as well. A very sad day. 2:00 the wake, 7:00 the memorial, 10:00 a.m. tomorrow the funeral for Officer Ramos.

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BANFIELD: Pictures at CNN just covering live of the casket of Officer Rafael Ramos, better known as Ralph to his friends and his family, being taken into the Chris Tabernacle Church in the community of Glendale, in New York. That's an area of Queens where hundreds of people have gathered at this early hour because another hour and 40 minutes before the wake for Officer Ramos is even scheduled to begin. But the casket just arrived moments ago and this was the image, if you're just joining us now, six pallbearers, his colleagues from the NYPD, with the green flag of the New York City Police Department draping the casket, the American flag at the tail end of it. Also ushered in by other members of the NYPD as those other colleagues who turned out today stand by at attention. A silent moment as the casket was brought in from that hearse and as they prepare to memorialize Officer Rafael Ramos.

The plans for memorializing his colleague, Wenjian Liu, who was also executed, shot point blank last weekend by what could only be described as a mad man who said he was hell-bent on avenging the deaths of those two very controversial stories that developed in Ferguson, Missouri, and here in New York. That was the reason it was posted, but certainly it remains to be a conversation piece as to why this senseless tragedy developed.

The family of Officer Ramos expected to either be in attendance in that church right now or will be arriving shortly. But many police officers, upwards of 25,000 police officers from around the country are expected to be in attendance when Officer Ramos is formally memorialized at his funeral tomorrow at 10:00 a.m.

A pretty remarkable scene, though. No matter what, it is always poignant when you see that kind of a turnout for a fallen officer.

I want to get my legal panel to come in on a very important development in this story. Here with me in New York, criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles, HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos.

So, it's hard to even bring up this fact, as we're watching those images, and this is playing out live, you know, one borough over in Queens, but threats are coming in to the NYPD and these two officers haven't even been buried yet. There have been upwards of 40 threats that have been made. Whether they've been cyber threats or telephone threats. About half of them considered to be credible enough to follow up on and investigate.

And now there are seven arrests. Seven men have actually now been arrested and will face charges because of what they said or did in relation to this story and threatening other NYPD officers. Where is the line? How simple is this story when it comes to saying what you want to say, expressing how you feel about the story and ending up in a cell? DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: When it comes to defining a threat,

Ashleigh, our own Supreme Court has grappled with how to apply the test. What is a threat? Should it be measured by objectively what the listener heard and whether they perceived it as a threat, or in a test more favorable to a defendant, do we measure it by what the speaker actually intended? Did they actually intend to communicate a threat? And, as in all cases like this, context is critical.

So, we will continue to grapple with this issue, especially online, because social media combines the power of the printed word with the organic immediacy of thought. People, once you have a thought flash into your head, you can post it on Twitter. And then, not only is that out there, it's also what we now call evidence.

BANFIELD: And let's talk about the evidence, the cases that these seven people may find themselves in. Joey, exactly what could these people face depending - and we don't know yet exactly what all of them said -

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.

BANFIELD: But what could they face in terms of criminal action?

JACKSON: All right, this is real, Ashleigh, and it's real because you can talk about the Supreme Court and these are valuable tasks that Danny cited, certainly. But here we're seeing them come to life. And here's how. There are specific statutes on the books, Ashleigh, that address threats when people say things and they say them with not so good intentions. And so there's one type of threat, which is aggravated harassment, which is punishable under New York state penal law, and it's a misdemeanor.

What does that mean? It means that it's punishable by up to a year in jail. And so what is the statute? In the event that you make something, make some threat, with the intent to cause annoyance all along, very broad based. And so certainly it has to be made in the context - and what we see with social media, Ashleigh, there's a context in which these threats are being made to the NYPD.

But there's a broader statute than that, and that's a d (ph) felony. Felonies are punishable by more than a year in jail. In fact, up to four years, this statute, a d felony, and that's terroristic threats. And what does that mean? In the event that I make a threat, and there's some imminence, and with that threat I'm trying to influence a civilian population's thought or I'm trying to coerce governmental policy and there's an immediacy of my threat, like killing the police. And so these things are real, they're substantial and certainly they have a broad-based effect.

BANFIELD: So, Midwin, the timing, I don't know if any of these people who made these threats could have possibly known the images that we were showing on television would just be happening the morning after the arrests, but is there something to the timing? Meaning, the NYPD is almost thinking of nothing other right now than what they have to do. They have to bury these two men.

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

BANFIELD: And to hear that they're being threatened at the same time, might these have been treated differently had they come at a different time, at a time when they weren't wearing white gloves and carrying a casket on their shoulders?

CHARLES: They might have. But, you know, when you look at it through the prospectus of say somebody who decides to make this threat at such a horrific and inopportune time, you have to ask yourself, this isn't someone who's thinking logical. This is someone who's thinking illogical, much like the deranged and depraved person who shot this two police officers who were just minding their business, eating lunch and sitting in their car.

BANFIELD: But you could be crazy and still be a criminal?

CHARLES: Exactly. Absolutely.

JACKSON: Yes.

CHARLES: And we have seen this time and time again with threats against the president and also people who have actually targeted and/or randomly killed individuals, such a James Holmes, who walked in and shot eight people in a movie theater, the school shootings that we've seen in this country. And, Ashleigh, I have to say, as a society, we have to do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental illness.

BANFIELD: Amen.

CHARLES: We've got to do a better job of doing that.

BANFIELD: I think a lot of people would agree with that, it's just the methods by which we do that has got a lot of people divided.

Midwin, Danny, Joey, if you could stick around, other stories that I want you to touch on, if you would, I'd appreciate it.

You may have heard of this. First hackers targeting Sony over "The Interview," that movie, and exposing insider e-mails that embarrassed a lot of people at that company right up to the top. Now gamers, yes, the people who got games under the tree yesterday, they're dealing with a hack of their own. PlayStation and xBox users booted offline and not just for a short time, for a lot of Christmas Day. The very day that's the busiest day for gaming. What the group taking credit for this attack was actually hoping to accomplish. And it might surprise you.