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CNN NEWSROOM

Stock Market Report; North Korea's Internet Trouble; Support for "The Interview"; NYC Police Clash with Mayor; Remembering Officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu; Kevin Love: Protesting Police Brutality is Not Anti-Police

Aired December 23, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

We are keeping a very close eye on \Wall Street as the opening bell rings under the glimmer of some good economic news. This morning, we have learned the U.S. economy grew 5 percent in the third quarter, the fastest rate since 2003. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans is tracking the breaking story for us.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And the stock market up. The Dow up 50 points there above 18,000. So you see that big 18,000 number on the big board.

Look, the stock market has been telling us, Randi, for months really that the economy was gathering momentum. Even as many Americans didn't say they felt it. The stock market has been setting record after record after record. The Dow up 8 percent this year. The S&P 500 up 12 percent.

The S&P 500, your stocks in your 401(k) most likely look like the S&P 500. The Nasdaq, 14 percent. And then you get this confirmation today from the Commerce Department that economic growth in the third quarter was the strongest since 2003. Two very robust quarters of economic growth in the U.S. Job creation, low gas prices, all of this kind of a magic elixir at the end of the year.

It's also interesting because, starting January 1st, there are going to be 20 states that are going to have higher minimum wages. So even as people have been worried about wages not growing, even as the economy has been growing so robustly, many states are going to have higher minimum wages in the beginning of the year. That will mean more money in people's pockets. So at least for now, Dow 18,000 reflecting what has been an economy ratcheting into higher gear, I think.

KAYE: So it's no surprise but it's certainly something to celebrate.

ROMANS: It is something to celebrate. KAYE: Yes.

ROMANS: Again, your -- many people are saying they're not celebrating it in their wages. They'd like to see their wages go up a little bit more.

KAYE: Sure.

ROMANS: Your investments have gone up nicely this year, very nicely. Gas prices lower. Job creation kicking in. Now we just have to see how it carries through the end of the year.

KAYE: All right, Christine, thanks very much for that good news.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

KAYE: Let's get back to one our top stories this morning, the possible hack of North Korea's Internet. Someone or something has been repeatedly wiping the entire country off the Internet now for the last 24 hours. Just look at this graphic from Dim (ph) Research. Those white gaps show when North Korea's Internet is out. Intermittent outages, of course, are to be expected, but this is really out of the ordinary. Now, at its peak, North Korea was offline for more than nine hours.

Who might have unplugged North Korea? Well, all eyes are most likely on the U.S. right now giving the escalating war of words between the two nations over that massive cyber-attack on Sony Pictures. CNN's Elise Labott is live in Washington to talk more about this.

Elise, so what, if anything, are U.S. officials saying?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, they're saying nothing, being very coy about what happened, saying don't ask us, talk to the North Koreans about it. But take a listen to Deputy Spokesman Marie Harf when asked about these outages and also about the U.S. response for this hacking. You remember President Obama said it would be proportional.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: As the president said, we are considering a range of options in response. We aren't going to discuss, you know, publicly operational details about the possible response options or comments on those kind of reports in any way, except to say that as we implement our responses, some will be seen, some may not be seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: So some will be unseen. Obviously all eyes looking towards the United States, but -- and experts say this is consistent with some kind of Internet shutdown. It doesn't mean that 100 percent that the U.S. was behind it, of course. It could mean that China, where North Korean Internet goes through, the Chinese telecom shut off the Internet, or it could be North Korea itself trying to fend off a potential hacking or cyberattack and shutting off their own Internet, Randi.

KAYE: Yes, the timing is certainly curious, though. Is the U.S., do you think, inching towards cyber warfare with North Korea, I mean, or are we already there?

LABOTT: Well, obviously, we don't know if the U.S. has done anything yet, so we don't know if we're in cyber warfare. And don't forget, North Korean Internet is very small and it's not necessarily in North Korea. So if the U.S. wanted to do some kind of proportional attack, they would have to go after hackers in China, in Thailand, things where this actual hacking went through. So it doesn't -- we don't really know if the U.S. is going to do that because that would involve relations impinging on the sovereignty of other countries. I think that the U.S. officials tell us are looking at sanctions on North Korean officials, banking entities, along the lines of what the U.S. did with Russian President Putin after his actions in Ukraine. So I think that there will be some response. Whether it will be in the cyber realm, we really don't know yet.

KAYE: All right, Elise Labott, appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Let me bring in Brian Stelter, CNN's senior media correspondent, host of "Reliable Sources," to talk more about this.

So on the talk of threats and the hacks and all of this happening between the U.S. and North Korea, really the timing is interesting because it's coming now just two days before "The Interview" was actually supposed to be --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Was supposed to release, yes.

KAYE: Yes, was supposed to release. But do Americans, do you think, think that maybe Sony overreacted or the theaters even overreacted in canceling it?

STELTER: We have a very revealing new poll out this morning from CNN and it finds, yes, six out of 10 Americans do think there was an overreaction here, and men think so even more so than women. There's the data. Thirty-six percent say Sony made the right decision, 62 percent say it was an overreaction. And that's noteworthy because Sony, of course, says it wasn't their fault at all. They say it was the theater owner chains that decided not to show the movie, so Sony had to choice. But now they are in talks with possible distributors about how to get this movie shown.

I just checked in. They have no news to announce this morning, but maybe by the end of the year we'll have some sort of distribution deal in place.

KAYE: What about independent theaters? I mean they've been offering to release the film, right?

STELTER: Yes, and that's where this is sort of getting interesting because there's a groundswell of support for this movie from people saying, we want to hold screenings of it. I saw this comment on FaceBook from an owner of a theater in Washington, D.C. He says, you know, "as the operator of an independent theater, the West End Cinema, I refuse to allow bullies to dictate what I can and cannot show." And this is from a petition that's now online. More than 200 signatures on it from art house cinema owners who say, we want to show the movie.

And there are also calls now in Congress. A Democrat from California, Brad Sherman, sent a letter to Sony yesterday saying he wants to hold a screening on Capitol Hill. He wants to send a signal that the Congress is standing up for freedom of expression. So his letter went out to Sony yesterday. Their office says they haven't heard back from Sony yet, but it's only been a few hours, only been, you know, it was overnight.

KAYE: Yes.

STELTER: So maybe they'll hear from Sony later.

KAYE: So when do you think we might know about the rumors, if they might release it possibly even for free online?

STELTER: Yes, that's the other interesting piece of this. Maybe they'll put it online for free. Maybe they'll stream it so we can watch it online. Maybe it would be some sort of nice holiday thing where everybody will get online and watches it together.

But I think Sony's trying to move carefully here. You know, they did postpone that Christmas release. So it might take a while to get an actual distribution plan in place. I think if they could announce something right now, they would. The fact that it's taken several days to make plans suggests that there are a lot of partners and companies that are still wary of this movie, still worried about working with Sony to release it because then they might be vulnerable to hacking as well. They might be vulnerable to threats as well.

KAYE: And no question Sony would lose money here or is there even a chance they could save this?

STELTER: A budget of $44 million is going to be really hard to recoup.

KAYE: Yes.

STELTER: And this hacking probably cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. Think about all the identity theft protection they have to provide.

KAYE: Right.

STELTER: Replacing a lot of systems and software.

KAYE: The costs of lawsuits too.

STELTER: And those lawsuits. There's going to be more lawsuits coming I think. So the totals of all of that are going to be really hard to recoup. It will be more of a statement to have this movie come out than a financial reward.

KAYE: Good point. Brian Stelter, nice to see you.

STELTER: Thanks.

KAYE: Thank you.

And, of course, check out Brian's new article at cnnmoney.com.

We'll be right back.

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KAYE: Welcome back.

This morning we've been talking quite a bit about the history between New York Mayor Bill de Blasio and the NYPD and most recently, I'm sure you can remember this video, where they turned their back on him as he came to the hospital where the two officers who had been ambushed in Brooklyn were being treated.

So this is a long history and we wanted to invite our next guest on to talk a little bit about how this all works. He not only knows what it's like to lead a police force, he's also been a mayor. Lee Brown is New York's former police commissioner and the former mayor and police chief of Houston. He's also written a book titled "Policing in the 21st Century, Community Policing."

Nice to see you.

So this battle between New York police and city hall, certainly nothing new. In 1992 there was an all riot by police against the former mayor, David Dinkins. You had served as New York City's police commissioner just before that happened. During your time, I mean what can you recall about that? Were relations between police and the mayor strained then as well?

LEE BROWN, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: The issue was there was just brewing while I was there. That was the creation of a civilian review board to receive and investigate complaints against police officers. The police officers did not endorse that concept and, as I understand, that was the reason for the demonstration there at city hall. I wasn't in the country at time. I did read about it when I returned.

KAYE: What do you see as different this time around? What do you make of what's happening in New York?

BROWN: We must understand that a police department is a big family. In this instance, two members of the family lost their lives. So there's a lot of pain there. We would probably prefer that the officers not turn their back on the mayor, but that happened. To understand it, we must understand the circumstances under which that occurred, that's the loss of two members of a family. Do we condone it? No. Do we understand it? Yes.

KAYE: So with this tension, I mean how do you cut through it? What needs to be done on both sides? BROWN: If there are other issues, and I suspect there may be other

issues that have not come to the surface yet, then there's a need for the police, along with the police commissioner -- the police union and the police commissioner and the mayor to sit down and work through the issues. I don't know what the issues are at this point in time, but I suspect it's more than we know about at this point in time.

KAYE: You wrote the book on community policing. You implemented a program also during your time in New York. How do police officers benefit from what you call community policing?

BROWN: One thing I think it makes them safer. Let me tell you one quick story when I was in New York. A white officers working a predominantly black public housing projects. They made an arrest and was immediately surrounded by residents there. One African-American man came out of the crowd, stood next to the officer, crossed his arms and just stood there. That dispersed the entire crowd. And once they were all gone, the resident of the housing project looked at the officer and said, I thought we were going to have to kick butt there for a while.

What's the essence of that story? That officer had worked in that community. People got to know him, and he was able to carry out his job with the support of the community. And that's the essence of community policing. I define it as a partnership and I underline the word partnership between the police and the community to accomplish four objectives. No. 1, to prevent crime, No. 2, to arrest those who commit crimes, No. 3, to solve problems in the community, and No. 4, to improve the quality of life in neighborhoods.

The police can't do the job alone. The community can't do the job alone. But when you put the two together, you have an awesome force to get things done. That's the essence of community policing. It's not a program; it's a process. It's a philosophy of how do you use your police officers to improve the quality of life in neighborhoods.

KAYE: It sounds like it does exactly what it sounds like -- builds a community, builds trust, which is certainly lacking right now. Lee Brown, thank you very much. I'll be right back.

BROWN: You're welcome.

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KAYE: We want to show you some new pictures, new video coming in to CNN of the memorial there in Brooklyn where the two NYPD officers were slain over the weekend. A lot of people dropping flowers and cards and candles and coming to pay their respects as this memorial grows.

These two men, they were just doing their job, a job that is to protect and serve. But a suicidal killer cut their lives short Saturday afternoon. Now, mourners are paying their respects to slain New York City police officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, as you see it there, leaving the flowers and the candles and some mementos at that Brooklyn intersection where they were ambushed inside their patrol car. Ramos and Liu took different paths that would eventually join their

lives together.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (voice-over0: They were partners on patrol. Officer Wenjian Liu, a seven-year veteran of the NYPD, and Officer Rafael Ramos, who first joined the department in 2012. Both were assigned to the 84th Precinct in downtown Brooklyn.

Officer Ramos worked as a school security officer before joining the NYPD and reportedly love the Mets. He was married with two children. On Facebook, his 13-year-old son wrote, "He was there for me every day of my life. He was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. I will always love you, and I will never forget you. Rest in peace, Dad."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could say that he was god; he was god because the heart he had is uncompared to other people's heart.

KAYE: Ramos's cousin told "The Wall Street Journal" that God was a priority in Ramos's life. The 40-year-old officer in recent years grew more passionate about his church. On his Facebook page, a quote reads, "If your way isn't working, try God's way."

The same page said Officer Ramos had been married since 1993 and once studied at a seminary.

Before his death, Ramos was studying to become a chaplain. In fact, later that Saturday afternoon, the day he was killed, he was scheduled to graduate from a chaplain program. The pastor at his church told us Ramos had an infectious smile and loved his wife, Marisa, and his two boys, Justin and Jaden.

LUCY RAMOS, VICTIM'S AUNT: I would like to thank all those who have shared their sympathy and support for our beloved family member, Rafael Ramos, who will always be loved and missed by many.

KAYE: Officer Liu, who was 32, and had been married just a couple of months. Described by some around the neighborhood and quiet and in love. His parents are from China and, according to media reports, he was their only son.

One friend of Liu's summed up his passion for police work in "The New York Times."

"I know that being a cop is dangerous, but I must do it," Officer Liu had said. "If I don't do it and you don't do it, then who is going to do it?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (on camera): New York mayor Bill de Blasio has called for a halt to protests until both officers are laid to rest. Some critics go so far as to blame the nationwide protests over the killings of unarmed black men by police as creating an environment that led to anti-police sentiment, but others are pushing back. They say protesting against police brutality is not the same as being against police.

David Love, he shares that belief. He's the executive editor of blackcommentator.com and a contributor to The Grio.

David, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us this morning. You write an op-ed for The Grio --

DAVID LOVE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, BLACKCOMMENTATOR.COM: Thanks for having me, Randi.

KAYE: You write that, quote, "the execution-style shooting of two NYPD officers in Brooklyn was a cold-blooded, senseless murder and we must call it for what it is. But we have to be able to condemn the killing of police officers as we condemn police brutality. The two are not mutually exclusive and I would suggest they are interrelated.

The #blacklivesmatter movement is far too important to allow the actions of one sick individual to derail it."

So let me ask you then, why do you think people are trying to link Saturday's murder with the protest movement?

LOVE: Well, I believe that, first and foremost, there are people, particularly some police officers, who are not interested in reform -- reform of the system. The fact that people are being killed by police is a serious matter. The fact that police, in this instance, have been killed is a very serious and tragic matter. But we cannot forget the fact that this country is so violent, built on violence. And I think that the #blacklivesmatter movement is really trying to get to the bottom of a system where people, particularly people of color, feel as if they are being threatened.

Why should I feel as if, when I walk out of my house on the street or in my car, and I see a police car, why should my heart start to race? Why should I feel as if my life is in danger?

I believe that the -- what we're trying to get to with the #blacklivesmatter movement is that all lives, all lives are meaningful. All lives have a purpose. And we have to protest the murder of people by police, but at the same time, we also should be able to mourn and speak out against the killing of innocent police officers.

KAYE: Right. So then how do you then fight back against the critics who do want to tie the protests to the death?

LOVE: Well, I think that one thing we have to do that there are many well-intentioned police officers out there who really want to see change in the system. You look at Ray Lewis, retired Philadelphia police captain. He has been involved in the Ferguson protests, the lone -- I call him the lone soldier. The one police officer who is out there was condemning violence by police against people. You have the -- the black police officers in St. Louis who stood up in favor of the five St. Louis Rams players who went out on the field in their "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" stance. I think that part of the solution is going to be to have well- intentioned police officers out, upfront, with the protesters, trying to come up with a solution. Because, really, what we want, what we all want, is a society that is free violence, and particularly racial violence. And we should also keep in mind that there are people such as Omar Edwards, black New York City police officer, who was killed in 2009 by a white police officer because he was mistaken for a criminal.

KAYE: Right.

LOVE: Now, we all want a safer society and I think that if we have a safer society for civilians, it'll also mean a safer society for police officers.

KAYE: Just have to figure out how to get there. David Love, thank you very much for your insight. Appreciate that.

LOVE: Thanks for having me.

KAYE: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right after a break.

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