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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Who Brought Down North Korea's Internet; Protests Against Police Spread to Milwaukee; Concerns of Another Terror Attack in Australia; Are Attacks More Likely During Holidays; Congressman to Plead Guilty to Tax Evasion; Winter Weather May Spoil Holiday Travel

Aired December 23, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They caused a lot of damage, and we will respond. We will respond proportionally, and we'll respond in a place and time and manner that we choose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hmm. Is it a coincidence, or is the plot thickening? Those comments by President Obama coming just a few days ago, and yesterday, strangely enough, North Korea's Internet went done - the whole Internet, just down. Went to black, nine hours, thirty-one minutes.

Now it's out again, according to Dyn Research. Here's what one analyst said about the first outage - "It's as if North Korea got erased from the global map of the Internet."

So is this the retaliation that the United States president was talking about, for North Korea's massive cyber attack on Sony? The US government is not saying.

But I want to bring in Congressman Ed Royce - he's the chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Chairman, thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today. What's your speculation, if that is all we've got, speculation - is this the move -- is this the latest salvo from the Americans or something different?

REP. ED ROYCE, (R-CA), FOREIGN AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN: You know, we don't know at this point. But what's interesting is that we did have conversations with the government in China, I know, and part of that discussion was over the fact that China Unicom has been used as sort of the North Korean access point. So it's anybody's guess right now in terms of whether it was China finally saying no and shutting that down or some other source. But the other thing we should remember is there's only a couple thousand access points or addresses in North Korea. So three quarters of the country doesn't even have electricity. I've been in North Korea. It's not as though we could do much damage or a hacker could do much damage if they did shut down the North Korean system.

BANFIELD: I want to read one more quote from DYN Research, Matthew Prince. "It's probably risky to speculate that attack is being launched by any state-based entity. It's much more likely it's some 15-year-old in a Guy Fawkes mask."

Let's just say taking down the Internet aside as one of the possible methods of retaliation to North Korea and as you said, what effect would it really have? You have some concrete ideas on what might be a stronger message and actually a bigger stick to wield. Can you tell me what it is you're mulling about?

ROYCE: I have legislation that we passed into the Senate, and let me just explain the concept here. What we noticed about the North Korean hackers -- and there's about 3,000 of them that have been trained, some in Moscow, some in Beijing. But they are really good with this malware and one of the things they've done is to take out the banking system from time to time or specific banks in South Korea. Another thing they've done is to probe to see what they could do to our electric grid or what they could do here in the United States to air traffic control. These are types of things we worry about. What's the Achilles heel for North Korea? It's the fact that they need access to the financial system. They need hard currency. And in the past, in 2005 when we caught them counterfeiting hundred dollar U.S. bills, what we did was to sanction Banko Delta Asia, and it shut down their financial system. So that's the approach I think would work in terms of not only stopping the resources that they apply here but the that generals wouldn't be paid again, this is what happened last time, the dictator couldn't pay the generals and he couldn't pay to maintain his nuclear weapons program which I think we have a vested interest in.

BANFIELD: I'll put the out a note to our viewers that you introduced the North Korea sanctions enforcement act that passed in the House and stalled in the Senate, now we have a new Senate and you plan to roe introduce the bill as one of the first orders of business when the Congress reconvenes in the new year. Can I move beyond even that? We've seen sanctions against rogue nations, somewhat languishing because it's the people who suffer for than the leaders, it would seem. What about the possibility of conventional war? Is that even in the offing? Is it even on anyone's radar when it comes to --

(CROSSTALK)

ROYCE: That's not on anyone's radar. Why would we want to do that with North Korea when, frankly, we know that sanctions worked on South Africa. We know we've piled 10 times the sanctions that we've applied on North Korea against Burma and that worked. That brought the Burmese government to the table. What we've never really done with North Korea except for that short period of time after we caught them counterfeiting hundred dollar bills is to just take their financial system offline. Basically disallow any banks to do business with that regime because of the money laundering it's engaged in. And that is the way to put maximum pressure on the regime to actually get change internally. And I think that's what we have to do at this point. BANFIELD: Can I ask you, this is sort of a personal question, a moral

question, and, it's about the movie that has sparked this whole problem, "The Interview." It shows the violent death of a sitting leader. Regardless of what you think of this leader, do you think it's appropriate for that kind of an image to be created in a film that's released globally? If that had happened to President Obama, to an image of President Obama, wouldn't Americans be outraged, disgusted, angry, all the same things the North Koreans are?

ROYCE: Well, there has been in art in the past and in theater this theme. And I think what you have to go to is the question of how we should have responded to salmon Rushdie's "satanic verses".

BANFIELD: A million years ago, sure.

ROYCE: A long time ago but what an affront that seemed to be to the Ayatollah Khomeini who put out a fatwa on his head. But remember at the time the way our artistic community responded to that. Stephen king, for example, called up the head of one of the bookstore chains and said, "Hey, I understand this fatwa has been put on you. Well, either you carry Salman Rushdie's books or you take my books off the shelf." And so this was the way the publishing houses reacted, the way that authors reacted.

(CROSSTALK)

ROYCE: I think when it come tots freedom of expression, freedom of speech, pushback.

BANFIELD: That was one of my first stories when I got into this business about 27 years ago, the Salman Rushdie "Satan Verses." Thank you so much for reminding me of how old I am.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Congress Ed Royce, thank you so much. Happy holidays.

ROYCE: Happy holidays.

BANFIELD: Still ahead @THISHOUR, the rage and protests against police spreading now to another American town. It's Milwaukee, folks. Look at your screen, it's outrage after the district attorney there decides not to charge a cop in the shooting death of a mentally ill African- American man. So this time there's a different method that was employed. No grand jury. We'll take you the scene with the latest.

Also, got travel plans this holiday? If so, stick around and get up your Internets because you'll see pictures like this and, oh, I hope it won't be where you're going. A huge winter storm threatening to wreak havoc on your potential plans. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news. I'll let you know how bad it is, next.

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BANFIELD: Many Milwaukee, people take to the streets to protest after the D.A. decided not to charge a white officer in the death of a mentally ill black man. The officer shot Dontre Hamilton 14 times back in April and now the federal government is looking into this case.

Our George Howell joins us from Milwaukee.

George, you got a chance to talk to Dontre Hamilton's mother. Can you tell us what the family is saying about this?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maria Hamilton, Ashleigh, she says she's frustrated by what happened. Remember, this happened back in April so this family has been waiting for many, many months. There have been protests here in Milwaukee for months. That answer came just the other day. It's an answer that the family is having a hard time understanding. Keep in mind that this officer, Ashleigh, was fired from his position by the police chief who basically said he put himself, Chris Manning, put himself in a position where he had no choice but to use deadly force, basically firing his weapon 14 times. So he was fired from his job, the family, many protesters, are trying to understand why he won't face criminal charges for what happened.

BANFIELD: So as I understand it, the situation was that the protocol wasn't followed properly in patting down Dontre Hamilton and that's what escalated into Hamilton grabbing the officer's baton and attacking the officer after which the officer fired his weapon. So the criminal charges suggested that he was being beaten so he had a right to defend himself and use deadly force but the federal government is still doing an investigation. The federal civil rights investigation. Is that correct? Where are they with that?

HOWELL: Well, to our understanding, and this was just announced the other day, right after that decision we understand that they will do a concurrent investigation. They will look at this just as well as the district attorney's office looked at it. The D.A.'s office had an independent reviewer to look at the case. That decision was that the officer did what he was supposed to do when confronted, when in a confrontation with another person. But, again, going back to what the police chief said, did he instigate that fight? Also the police chief pointing out that Mr. Manny knew this was a mentally ill suspect but did not follow proper training when dealing with a mentally ill person. All of those things will be back under the watchful eye, the reviewing eye of the Department of Justice.

BANFIELD: George Howell live for us, thank you for that.

We'll have a whole lot more on this ahead on "Legal View."

You have heard people say "why a grand jury? Why not a special investigator?" Well, that's exactly what the D.A. brought into that case. Brought in a special investigator, not the grand jury. And still the criticism is flowing in. So we'll talk about the difference and why the criticism hasn't abated.

Also coming up, Australia is on high terror alert after the prime minister of that country says a terror attack is not only possible it's likely. This on the heels of the one they're still suffering from. We have the chilling details of what they've found in that country.

And if you're planning on going overseas this holiday, what do you need to take into consideration regarding your safety? Guess what? The United States government has a warning for you, and it's serious. We have the answer straight ahead.

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BANFIELD: Concerns about another terror attack in Australia. The Prime Minister Tony Abbott says there has been a high level of terror chatter since that awful siege in a Sydney cafe last week. Two hostages, including the manager of the cafe, were killed by a gunman before commandos took his life.

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TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: An attack is likely. We don't know when and how an attack may come but we do know that there are people with the intent and the capability to carry out further attacks.

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BANFIELD: As Australia warns of another attack, France also on edge over a series of incidents just this past weekend. It certainly brings up the question are we more vulnerable during this particular time, the holiday season.

Our CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank joins me live.

I was trying to go over the list I can remember from holidays past. It's unpleasant. The shoe bomber, right around Christmas. The Los Angeles Airport millennium plot in 2000. The Strasbourg, France, in Christmas, 2000. What, Paul, makes me think this Christmas should be different?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: There is additional concern at this time of year, documents found at bin laden's compound in Abbottabad show he was talking about launching attacks in the Christmas period, the holiday period, on Christmas day, even July 4, a sort of squall reason. Also they realize a lot of people are traveling at that time. But in general, these terrorist plots have been launched when the terrorists are ready rather than at any particular time of year. But there is additional concern this holiday period because ISIS now has this safe haven in Syria and Iraq and they've called for lone wolf attacks in the West. We've seen attacks in Australia and now in France last weekend.

BANFIELD: The story that we led the program with about the Delta Airlines employee hauling on over 100 guns, seven of them loaded using his very useful baggage pass, his baggage handler pass to get it on to a plane. The first thing some people thought was, yeah, OK, he was running guns for money, not terror. But did it cross your mind this could have been a dry run? They might have been guinea pigs for a larger plot to see if that loophole was really good? CRUICKSHANK: I don't think there's any in evidence this case this is

any n any way connected to any terrorist group or any terrorist activities. Obviously consider concerning any time you have guns on planes. It's pretty difficult for terrorist groups to get guns on planes because they have metal detectors and sophisticated scanners at airports and they're very good at picking these kinds of guns up. Every year there's some guns that get through but in general al Qaeda and other terrorist groups realize that it's difficult to get guns on planes.

BANFIELD: Not for this guy. He had a pass right from the tarmac on to the plane. It's unbelievable to me. Before I let you go, though, the nation that the State Department on December 19 put out a reminder of the warning for Americans traveling specifically in the Middle East and abroad to be vigilant of their surroundings, I suppose we should just assume that's the new order. Or is it? Is that warning, that reminder of the warning something else?

CRUICKSHANK: Ashleigh, I think it is the new normal and there's particularly acute concern in the Middle East. We've seen a string of is-inspired attacks against westerners in recent weeks in the Middle East. Notably against a Dane in Riyadh a Canadian in Saudi Arabia, an American woman killed in a knife stabbing in an upscale mall in Abu Dhabi. A French hiker recently beheaded in the mountains of Algeria. There's definitely a trend there. There's rising concern that groups inspired by ISIS may want to launch attacks.

BANFIELD: Paul Cruickshank, nice to see you, thank you. Happy holidays.

So just ahead, we're tracking the radar and I'm sorry to say the story is not very good. A severe winter storm is threatening to unleash rain, wind, and snow on your Christmas, your Kwanzaa, Hanukah get away. We're tracking the travel trouble right now and I can tell you Rudolph better get a Venti.

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BANFIELD: A New York Congressman could be in trouble. A little less than 90 minutes from now, Republican Michael Grimm is expected to plead guilty to tax evasion. Law enforcement sources say that Grimm is going to sign a, quote, "statement of facts" that were originally alleged in a 20-count indictment last April. Whether Grimm gets to keep his seat in January is in question. He actually could be headed to prison instead. Grimm didn't do himself any favors when you may remember this legendary moment he went off on a reporter who asked him last January about some of those allegations of wrongdoing.

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REP. MICHAEL GRIMM, (R), NEW YORK: Let me be clear to you. If you ever do that to me again -- (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why, why, I just wanted to ask you a question.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: If you were having trouble hearing that, those are big words. He threatened to throw the reporter off the balcony -- actually the f-ing balcony. And then suggested, I'll break you like a little boy. A sitting Congressman. He did apologize for that outburst, very kind of him. But he's still facing those 20 counts. He is expected to plead guilty to one count of deliberately misleading the IRS by failing to report $1 million in income from a Manhattan restaurant. And that possibly carries jail time. CNN will have all of this live today. You'll find out exactly what's going to happen to him. He faced nothing for that little moment that you just witnessed.

Your holiday travel plans, I'm so sorry, they could be slowed down. Wet, wintry, icky, messy.

Jennifer Gray joins us from the CNN Weather Center.

What is it with this whole holiday thing? You always tell me it's going to be terrible for people who fly.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I know. I wish I could come with better news. It was the same thing at thanksgiving. We've had several hundred delays across the nation today. We have had ground stops in Houston and New York. Looks like things are starting to get back on track just a little bit. But if you're watching from the airport in New York, no matter which airport you are at, it is going to be about a 45-minute to an hour and a half delay. Also seeing delays of about an hour in Houston. We have some rough weather going on across the gulf coast. Showers and thunderstorms. We have a tornado watch in effect across south Louisiana and Mississippi until 6:00 central time. We have severe thunderstorm warnings as well as tornado warnings currently in south Louisiana. Actually it is going to spread -- these showers are going to spread to the east coast as we go into tomorrow. So expect delays tomorrow across the south and the northeast.

BANFIELD: Jennifer, I once spent about eight to ten hours in Denver Airport over Christmas with two toddlers. My heart goes out to anybody who's in the airport.

Thanks, Jennifer. Be well. Happy holidays.

There is no better time than this season of giving to remember the more than 49 million Americans who do not have enough to eat. That's one in six of us. Rapper and business mogul 50 Cent working to change that with his savvy marketing style and also his time.

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(SINGING)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From international hip- hop star to creator of a multimillion-dollar empire, Curtis Jackson remembers a time when things weren't so easy. That's why he says he's paying it forward by working with feeding America.

CURTIS "50 CENTER" JACKSON, RAPPER: I had it pretty rough but not to the point where there wasn't something to eat. Now I'm seeing a lot of kids that have even tougher stories than what I experienced. Feeding America, it is the best charitable organization to be a part of if hunger is your cause.

ANGELA DEPAUL, FEED AMERICA: Feeding America is the nationwide network of food banks. We provide food to low income people in need. More than 49 million Americans are food-insecure in this security.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: 50 recently joined others to volunteer t at the food bank for New York City.

JACKSON+: During the holidays, food is a big part of how to enjoy yourself. To have people provide meals for them in this time period is great.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: For many, it's a lifeline.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need help as far as food is concerned. I'm so grateful.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now a partnership between Feeding America and 50's country means every pair of SMS audio headphones purchased online provides 250 meals to those in need. And proceeds of his energy drink, Street King, goes to help the U.N. World Food Program.

JACKSON: When you look at hunger, it takes so much to solve it. The only place I see enough finances to do it is in business itself. This is the real part where you give back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Merry Christmas, 50.

Thanks for joining us @THISHOUR. A whole lot more on "Legal View" straight ahead after this break.

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