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Rising Tensions between Police and Mayor in New York; Giuliani Talks about Instigating Hate for Police; Ismaaiyl Brinsley Showed Signs of Mental Disorder; North Korea Threatens the U.S.

Aired December 22, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RANDI KAYE, CNN HOST: Good morning, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye it sitting in for Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.

New York City police are looking into more than 15 online threats against the department and warning its officers to be even more vigilant after the cold-blooded murders of two officers by a career criminal. 32-year-old officer Wenjian Liu, a seven-year veteran of the NYPD, and 40-year-old officer Rafael Ramos, who joined the department just two years ago, were ambushed inside their patrol cars on Saturday.

Police say this man, 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley, posted warnings on Instagram before he killed them after shooting an ex-girlfriend in Baltimore. Brinsley later took his own life inside a New York City subway station.

This morning, a makeshift memorial is growing in the Brooklyn neighborhood where the officers lost their lives. The police union is laying some of the blame for the murders on the mayor. Some officers turned their back on him Saturday when he showed up at the hospital where the officers were pronounced dead. You see it there as he walks through. New York's police commissioner tells NBC's the "Today" show, despite the rift, not all officers have lost confidence in Mayor Bill de Blasio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BRATTON, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: I think he has lost it with some officers that the -- I was at the hospital when that event occurred.

MATT LAUER, NBC HOST: Do you support those officers and the way they protested?

BRATTON: I don't support that particular activity. I don't think it was appropriate, particularly in that setting. But it's reflective of the anger of some of them.

KAYE: Ed Davis, Boston's former police commissioner, is joining me now to talk about this. Good morning to you. So, you spent 35 years in law enforcement. Have you ever seen anything like this tension between New York City's mayor and the police force now?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Randi. No, this is a unique situation. We've had a period of time now for the last month or two where tensions have been rising and then this situation has really pushed it way off the charts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: What needs to be done, then? I mean if it's off the charts as you say, I mean what needs to be done to get the mayor and the rank- and-file officers back together, back on the same page?

DAVIS: Well, there's a few things that can happen right now. Clearly the mayor has to do outreach to the police department. He's already been helping in providing resources to the commissioner who has mentioned this morning that he's able to put some things in place for the officers that are going to improve their safety. They need to stay on that particular issue, be focused on officer safety and the mayor has to make sure that in any statements that he makes he's recognizing that you can't paint police with a broad brush. For the last 30 years we've been training police not to do that with the community and we've been training police not to be prejudiced and to treat people based upon their activity. Their what -- they're doing. And I think that our leaders need to understand that police deserve that same - that same credit.

KAYE: But when you look at the protests, I mean so much has been said about the protests and how they were handled, certainly here in New York City, some have suggested, even former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, that maybe the protesters should have been sort of corralled into one area, that maybe Mayor de Blasio made a mistake in doing that. What would you have done differently?

DAVIS: I think it's been handled exactly right. We followed the same strategies here in Boston. People have a right to protest, they have a right to peacefully walk through the community and to let their position be held. And I think that that's exactly what's happened in New York City so I don't agree that there should have been constraints put on peaceful demonstrations. But I do believe that the demonstrators need to be more responsible and some of the rhetoric that's occurred during the marches when people are calling for the death of police officers, I've seen them -- some of the anarchists in this group, you know, go head to head with police and threaten them and bait them and try to get them to fight with them.

Those kind of actions should be rejected by the people who are peacefully protesting. They should be rejected just like prejudice is rejected on both sides of this equation. It's not the right thing to have happen and people have to recognize that. And the danger lies in amping up the rhetoric here to the point where fringe players like this murderer from Maryland are affected and actually carry out terrible acts.

KAYE: Ed Davis, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

DAVIS: Thank you.

KAYE: Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is speaking out on the issue. As I mentioned, he says the blood of these officers is not on the mayor's hands. In fact, he says he doesn't agree with people calling for de Blasio's resignation and he thinks the officers should not have turned their backs on the mayor, but he did say Mayor de Blasio should have some accountability and accused him in participating in hate speech against police officers. Giuliani spoke earlier on CNN's "NEW DAY."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDY GIULIANI (R) FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Over the last two to three months the hate speech about police officers has created a propaganda that police officers are racist. That is not true. The main problem is crime in the black community. When I was the mayor, I sent police officers to where these police officers were killed, not because I'm anti-black, by no means am I anti-black, I sent them there because there were tremendous numbers of crimes there. And I sent police officers to the southern part of Brooklyn because Italian kids were stealing cars in the southern part of Brooklyn. I reacted to crime. When you start doing this stuff that the mayor is doing, that the president is doing, that the attorney general is doing, they are perpetuating a myth that there is systemic police brutality. There is systemic crime, there is occasional police brutality.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": What do you think the president has done? I know that you've said that you think that he has been part of this propaganda?

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: And what did he say?

GIULIANI: The president has shown absolutely no respect for the police. All the president has done is see one side of this dispute. And if they would spend -- I heard Alveda King on television this morning. If they would spend as much time talking about improving education, the Mayor de Blasio would stop blocking charter schools, start supporting vouchers so there's better education for black children, if they would start talking about work fare and more work, if they would start talking about the responsibilities of fatherhood, now we're starting to talk about the real problem. The police problem is a reaction to that and maybe these two police officers, Ramos and Liu, should be made heroes in the black community. I mean, they were there trying to save black lives. They would move from one precinct to another because there was more black crime in that placing than the other one. The children of black parents in this city are being saved by our police officers and during the time I was mayor -- and I don't mind saying this -- I save more black lives than any mayor in the history of this city. Because I was not afraid to police according to statistics and not to what Al Sharpton would try to sell you as black propaganda.

CAMEROTA: So then, how do you explain the protests that we've seen across the city and elsewhere where they think that police are using excessive force ...

GIULIANI: Because they are being ...

CAMEROTA: ... And think that police are treating people in communities of color differently?

GIULIANI: It's the same way that people are more afraid of flying on an airplane than driving in a car. Because you create the impression that when there's one big airplane crash, oh my god, airplane crashes airplane crashes, airplane crashes. But people aren't afraid of driving in a car and they have a much greater chance of dying in a car. Now, if I were a black father and I had a son, there's less than a one percent chance that my son is going to be harmed by the police. There's a 92 percent chance that my son is going to be harmed by another black.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": They would argue the chance should be zero. That the idea that it's systemic, that it's widespread, that's an overextension of it. The idea that the Mike Brown case was the right case to hang this cause on may be an arguable assumption, but the idea that blacks are at risk when it comes to the culture of policing, that's not new and you know that there's a lot of statistical support for it. You don't want to ignore that problem.

GIULIANI: You don't want to ignore the problem. You (INAUDIBLE) about the problem. But you don't want to do it disproportionately to what the real problem is. I mean if you - to reduce the significant amount of crime in Fort Green, those police officers wouldn't have been in Fort Green.

CUOMO: Right. But they don't have to be abusive, they don't have to overdo stop and frisk.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: And all that's gone down.

CUOMO: Right. But that's a legitimate issue. You don't want to say it doesn't exist, because the real problem is that blacks kill each other.

GIULIANI: But it's - it's like this. Here's a highway that has two percent of the accidents, here's a highway that has 92 percent of the accidents. The president, the attorney general and de Blasio were spending all their time on the two percent highway and they are spending no time on the 92 percent highway and never talking about it, and never talking about the police officers who save black lives, which far outweigh police officers who abuse anyone. And, by the way, both cases you mentioned, great sympathy for the family, but both those men were committing crimes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: The man who killed those two New York City police officers had posted on Instagram before the attack. Beside a photo of his gun, 28- year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley wrote in part "I'm putting wigs on pigs today. They take one of ours, let's take two of theirs" with the hashtag "shoot the police." And Brinsley had an extensive criminal history that included at least 19 arrests, mostly in Georgia. He also spent about two years in a Georgia prison. His mom said he had a very troubled childhood. Just three years ago Brinsley told a Georgia judge about mental health issues as well.

Joining us to talk about it is psychologist Jeff Gardere. So, I want you to discuss here, about this - this man in this case, Jeff. Does it sound to you like he's a run-of-the-mill criminal or does this sound to you like someone more with psychological problems?

JEFF GARDERE PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, obviously I think we're seeing some severe mental health issues because not only did deplorably he kill two police officers, two innocents that he knew nothing about and also shot his girlfriend, thank goodness she survived, but he also killed himself. And so that is a very obvious sign that this is someone that it's not just about sociopathy here. This is someone who may have had some severe mental health issues. Probably not insane by the letter of the law, but someone who probably had to be medicated and I believe his mother said that at some point he was on psychotropics or some sort of psychiatric medication, but as we tend so see was not compliant on those meds and therefore lived a life of violence and failure at every turn.

KAYE: And police have been going through his Instagram account and they found that there was a lot of I guess, anger at himself and hatred ...

GARDERE: That's right. And disappointment.

KAYE: ... even for himself and disappointed in his own life. But they also found, you know, these posts that are marked, you know, with the hashtag, as I mentioned earlier, about, you know, encouraging violence against police. What does that tell you?

GARDERE: Well, to me this is someone who perhaps would be rife or at risk as we see for many people who are disaffected, who have some mental health issues, who have no meaning in their lives to be recruited by terrorists. And so, I don't think this was an individual from my point of view, psychological point of view, who was listening perhaps to Mayor de Blasio or who was very invested in peaceful protests or even protesters who were inappropriate by calling for cops to be killed. This is someone who would latch on to anything that would bring any type of meaning into his life, certainly someone who wasn't logical in any way, who was, as we see, suicidal, probably very, very depressed and therefore fits that profile.

KAYE: Let me ask you this, because I was struck yesterday at the press conference by the detective saying that when he left Baltimore after shooting his - allegedly shooting his ex-girlfriend he was calling her mother from the cell phone, saying "I'm sorry, it was an accident, and apologizing and almost giving clues even along the way as to where he was going. Does that speak at all to his mental fitness or lack thereof? I mean why would he be doing that and apologizing?

GARDERE: Well, certainly what we see people get very, very confused with those mental health issues. They act on impulse and then realize what they've done is wrong. They're in and out of reality which is part of that mental health profile. But also he was talking to people on the street and asking them, you know "Follow me on Twitter and Instagram" and announcing what, I'm going to do something really bad. Watch what happens. So, certainly that's a sign. And by the way, the detectives, Randi, are actually looking into the possibility that there were significant mental health issues. Of course, in this particular case I believe it doesn't excuse anything that happened, but yet another one of our issues in society with perhaps our not being able to provide the proper amount of mental health to people who are suffering, to people who are non-compliant, to people who don't even recognize how severely emotionally disturbed they are.

KAYE: It's just so sad. I mean he was, you know, away from his family and had nothing to do with his family and the whole thing is just ...

GARDERE: And then innocents have to suffer. So, certainly a horrible situation.

KAYE: Well, I appreciate your expertise and weighing in. Jeff Gardere, thank you. Appreciate that.

GARDERE: Pleasure.

KAYE: Still to come, North Korea issues a warning against any U.S. retaliation over the cyber-attack. We'll tell you about its new threats against the White House, the Pentagon and the whole U.S. mainland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: North Korea now warning Americans to prepare for more attacks. Sony may have pulled the plug on releasing "The Interview" this week, but overnight North Korea said that the worst is yet to come. CNN's Michelle Kosinski has the very latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: North Korea now openly threatening U.S. security vowing nothing as more serious miscalculation than guessing that just a single movie production company is the target. "Our toughest counteraction will be boldly taken against the White House, the Pentagon and the whole U.S. mainland, the cesspool of terrorism." And even while denying responsibility for the Sony hacking, North Korea now promises escalation saying the hackers are "sharpening bayonets to do damage thousands of times greater."

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think this was an act of war by North Korea?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, I don't think it was an act of war. I think it was an act of cyber vandalism that was very costly, very expensive. We take it very seriously.

KOSINSKI: But that characterization, not as cyber war or even terror but vandalism has launched the president's critics here at home.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R) ARIZONA: This is a manifestation of a new form of warfare. When you destroy economies, when you are able to impose censorship on the world and especially the United States of America, it's more than vandalism and we need to react and react vigorously.

KOSINSKI: What America can do and when is the question, possibly sanctions against the already-strapped regime's economy, its banks or military. The U.S. has now reached out to China and asked for cooperation. But what exactly that would look like U.S. officials declined to say. What has been stated in no uncertain terms at the highest levels is that options against North Korea are being weighed as we speak.

OBAMA: They caused a lot of damage. And we will respond. We'll respond proportionally and we'll respond in a place and time and manner that we choose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: So while all this is happening, today in an unprecedented move, the U.N. Security Council will take on North Korea's dismal human rights record. One the U.S. ambassador calls systematic and one of the worst in the world. They'll be looking at possible referral to the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity. Randi?

KAYE: Michelle Kosinski, thank you very much.

Checking top stories now, boxing legend Mohammed Ali is in the hospital with pneumonia. According to his spokesman, the three time world heavyweight champ is being treated at an undisclosed location and is in stable condition. Ali, who is 72, retired from boxing back in 1981. He announced his diagnosis with Parkinson's disease three years later.

Pope Francis has some harsh words for leaders of the Vatican bureaucracy. In his annual Christmas address this morning, he offered a blistering critique saying many in the hierarchy view themselves as superior and have forgotten the spiritual guidance of God. The pontiff accused the leaders of gossiping and being indifferent to others rather than showing optimism and cheerfulness.

The Arizona DOT is now accepting driver's license applications from young immigrants known as Dreamers. Motor Vehicle Division officers say that they're expecting long lines this morning, as more than 22,000 could be eligible. Last week, the federal court blocked the ban that prevented them from driving legally. The Dreamers, who have Arizona work permits, were spared from deportation by the president.

A snowstorm is pounding the Colorado Mountain this morning for a second straight day making travel pretty much treacherous and if you haven't reached your Christmas destination yet, well, you better hurry up. CNN's Jennifer Gray has details on a storm that just might slow you down. All right, Jennifer, lay it on us. What's...

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you know, it's going slow down a lot of people. But the good news, that this storm is, it's mainly going to be rain. So, this isn't going to be a huge Christmas snowstorm. Some people will wake up to a white Christmas. We will have snow in the forecast the next couple of days, especially areas in the upper Midwest. But for the East Coast, northeast, it's going to be just a rainy mess. We are already seeing showers and storms across the southeast that will linger into tomorrow. Could see strong storms from south Louisiana all the way to the Florida panhandle, so if you're traveling through, say, New Orleans or even places like Tallahassee you could run into some strong storms? Rain from Chicago on down through the southeast and even snow stretching anywhere from the Great Lakes all the way down to portions of Oklahoma. So some of these areas could wake up to a white Christmas.

Rain for the East Coast as we mentioned, though, the northeast included in that. If you are traveling through New York, D.C., Atlanta, some of the major hubs could see some pretty significant delays on Wednesday because of rain and wind. And then Christmas day not too much happening. We are going to see mountain snow in the west and also a couple of flurries across the east, but we are going to stay mainly dry for Christmas day, it's just going to be the cleanup and the mess from the days before.

So six to eight inches of rain possible for the panhandle through Wednesday. Three to five in South Georgia. We are going to look at one to two across places like New York City, Philly one to three in portions of upstate New York. We're also going to be looking at some pretty significant winds.

The snow not all that bad, maybe an inch or two around the Great Lakes, but the winds could be gusting up to 30 miles per hour in Atlanta. By the time we get to Wednesday morning, New York City, the winds reach you by the time we get to Wednesday about midday. We could see 30 mile per hour gusts in D.C., 40 mile per hour gusts in Philly. So when you factor in the wind and the rain that could mean some pretty significant slowdowns on Wednesday, Randi.

KAYE: Hold on to your hat for sure.

GRAY: Yeah.

KAYE: All right, Jennifer Gray, thank you very much.

Still to come, OK, holiday shoppers, it is the million-dollar question. Who is cheaper, Amazon or Walmart? We went shopping and we have some answers that might surprise you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inevitable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inevitable, things are inevitably going to change!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One team must pull together. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, let's move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's too soon to be having feelings for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. Feelings are feelings because we can't control them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And turn the Earth's darkest moment --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three more cities have fallen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Well, Sony may have pulled the plug on releasing "The Interview" this week, but sales of "Team America World Police", they are booming. Team America, another controversial comedy making fun of reclusive North Korean leaders is now sold out on Amazon. As you can see, Amazon says they expect to have more DVDs available in the next two to four weeks.

And speaking of Amazon, who is cheaper? The online retail giant or Walmart.com? CNN money went shopping and compared two of the world's biggest retailers on everything from food to electronics. Who's cheaper? Cristina Alesci has the answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENR: I hate walking into crowded stores during the holidays and I know I'm not alone. And when it comes to bargain-basement prices on line, there are two go-two names. The biggest name in brick and mortar, Walmart, and the online juggernaut Amazon. Both claim to have the cheapest prices, but I wanted to know which one was actually the cheapest and easiest to use.

Neither place is a great destination for your perishable groceries. On Amazon, refrigerated food is only available through Amazon Fresh, which is limited to about six cities. And Walmart doesn't even try. You're going to have to go to the store to get your dairy fix.

Cheerios. It's a draw. Now, here's the rub. Everyday items are actually getting harder to find on Amazon. That's because the company is pulling those products off of its core platform and only offering them to its prime members.

That means paying $99 a year for prime membership plus an extra $6 for every 45-pound box.

Bounty paper towels. Walmart wins on this one. Why? Amazon is building out several new categories and non-edible groceries is one of them. So instead of selling these products on its own, it's actually relying on third-party sellers. And some of these retailers drive up the price on Amazon on things like paper towels, clothing, and even electronics. Because Amazon and Walmart sell more than just grocery items, we compared 22 items across multiple categories. And after tallying, Walmart.com flat out wins on price. A full $150 cheaper. And that's before delivery fees. Walmart's free shipping could take anywhere from a week to 17 days. Now, with Amazon Prime, your stuff will probably come faster, two days, to be exact. But, like any other service these days, there's always a premium option. You've just got to pay for it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Some pretty good tips there. And you can check out more at CNNmoney.com. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)