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Sony Pulls Controversial Film in Face of Cyber-Attack Threats; Possible U.S. Responses to Cyber-Terrorism Analyzed; Obama Ducks Lame Duck Status

Aired December 19, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly I believe North Korea state-sponsored cyber terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're considering a range of options how to respond.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hackers stole computer credentials from a Sony system administrator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for us to respond to this in a very strong way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Engagement with the Cuban people will other time help things open up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're the best funded dictatorship in history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again President Obama has decided to do something absolutely without precedent.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": From the beginning of my show, it was my goal to live up to the name of this network, Influence Central.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colbert will take over the retiring David Letterman early next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We made the Colbert move seem so sinister with the music.

(LAUGHTER)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It is.

CUOMO: Good morning, everybody, and welcome to NEW DAY. It's Friday, December 19th, 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here. If North Korea can hack into Sony's computers, what about yours? What about mine, even Camerota's? Are any computers safe in this country? It's a big question. Some disturbing new details coming out as U.S. officials are set to blame North Korea for the hack on the movie studio.

CAMEROTA: So the government is expected to disclose the details today of how it knows the reclusive regime is behind the costliest attack against an American company. This as we're learning that one of Hollywood's biggest names has personally lobbied Sony to release the controversial film, but George Clooney could not get enough from studio chiefs to stand up against the hackers. We'll talk about that. We have this story covered from all angles. Let's begin with our senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns. What do we know at this hour, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. You know, it's not really just about calling North Korea out. It's also about what do you do next? One of the big questions in all of this is how to fashion a proportional response to a cyber-attack on a movie studio. It's not that easy a question to answer.

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JOHNS: The Obama administration is ready to point the finger at North Korea for the unprecedented Sony hack, a move that could come as early as this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're considering a range of options about how to respond.

JOHNS: Among the possible options, more sanctions. The administration insisting the response will be strong.

JENNIFER PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I can assure you the United States government is not blinking. We're not backing down. We're not in a crouching or fear position here.

JOHNS: Sources tell CNN there is evidence the hackers stole computer credentials from a Sony system administrator to get access to the company's computer system. The White House says it did not pressure Sony to pull "The Interview," the controversial comedy which depicts the assassination of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take him out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For coffee?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dinner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For kimchee?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We believe that that kind of artistic expression is worthy of expression. And it's not something that should be subjected to intimidation just because you disagree with the views.

JOHNS: U.S. officials are also considering exactly how to characterize the hack, which some are calling an act of terrorism. COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), FORMER AIR FORCE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: I see it as cyber terrorism and cyber extortion. I think that what they're doing is basically economic warfare, and they have found a way disproportionate to the physical power that North Korea possesses to actually affect economics, a particular company, in this case, Sony.

JOHNS: Pressure is also coming from lawmakers who want to see the White House deliver a forceful response.

REP. ED ROYCE, (R-CA) FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: It's time for us to respond to this in a very strong way and show the rest of the international community that we're not going to allow this to happen without us imposing a cost on a regime that does it.

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JOHNS: The president is expected to hold a news conference here at the White House later today. He is sure to get questions about the cyber-attack. Chris?

CUOMO: Joe, this is falling in the category of easy to say, tough to do. If they do blame Pyongyang officially, then what? What could the response be? Thank you for the reporting. We're going to take on this question what might happen if they blame the regime? And then could it start a dangerous back and forth between the feuding nations on the cyber level? For that let's go to Kyung Lah. She's live on the ground in Seoul, Korea. Kyung?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, we're certainly getting a clue of what could potentially happen next. We are hearing from the South Korean government that there was indeed a successful hack of the agency here in South Korea that runs the nuclear power plants of this country, certainly a very concerning escalation. Now, there were some sensitive documents taken, including blueprints of a nuclear power plant that was posted on a website, a blog for hackers. That blog has since been removed.

But here's the takeaway here. If they're escalating in South Korea, South Korea is the practice ground. The big target is the United States. So that's the warning here from intelligence experts here in South Korea that this is what may be coming as the cyber terrorism, the cyber warfare from North Korea becomes increasingly sophisticated. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Kyung Lah, thanks so much for all of that background.

Let's bring in now Fran Townsend. She's a CNN national security analyst and former homeland security adviser to President George W. Bush, and Philip Mudd. He's a CNN counterterrorism analyst and a former CIA counterterrorism official. Great to see both of you. Phil, I want to start with you, because this cyber-attack is being likened to an act of terrorism. Does it rise to that level?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I wouldn't say it does yet because obviously you don't have loss of life. But we've got to think about where we're heading in the future. We're talking about a hack on Sony. Think about a hack, for example, on air traffic control in America where you could have thousands of lives at risk.

CAMEROTA: And then that's terrorism.

MUDD: That's correct. I mean, I would consider this potentially an act of terrorism because you're talking about attack on civilians for a political purpose, which is sort of the definition of terrorism. It's just in the past it was a physical attack and in this case it's a virtual attack.

CAMEROTA: Fran, they threatened on this website a physical attack, but obviously didn't do anything of the sort.

FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. And it's not about whether or not there's a loss of life. It's about the attack, intended for a political purpose or to affect an outcome, and, by the way, they got that, so it certainly is an act of terror.

CAMEROTA: Fran, I want to stick with you for a second because we had an expert on earlier who does not necessarily believe this as the hallmark of a North Korean attack primarily because North Korea has been quiet about it. They generally like to take credit when they do something that disrupts the United States. How is the U.S. going to prove that North Korea was behind this?

TOWNSEND: It's actually very technical and it's based on forensics. This isn't guesswork. What they'll do is, you know, we reported earlier today and yesterday about the South Korean attack last year. Well, there are forensics that are associated with that kind of attack. There are IP, internet protocol, addresses that launched that attack. There's code associated with the malware with that attack. They'll take this attack against Sony and compare it.

And I hear from law enforcement sources one of the IP addresses used in the South Korea attack last year is identical to one of the IP addresses that was used to launch the Sony attack, and both will therefore be attributed to North Korea.

CAMEROTA: So that sounds like a smoking gun that would be helpful.

TOWNSEND: Pretty much.

CAMEROTA: Phil, it's one thing obviously to identify the hackers, that sounds like something that the U.S. is going to do today. It's another question of how to retaliate. What should the U.S. do in response?

MUDD: Well, obviously the first option is to figure out whether we have a virtual response ourselves, for example against North Korean military targets using the same capability North Koreans used against us.

I'm not sure we have a good protocol here yet, though. When we faced the 9/11 attacks, I do not think four years, five years, six years down the road in '05, '06, '07 we could not have understood how that attack would generate a response from the United States. There is always the law of unintended consequences. We are at this same stage in the virtual world trying to figure out a response, and I believe that response will evolve dramatically over the next five to 10 years because this attack is the wave of the future.

CAMEROTA: Fran, what do you think about the response today? What should the U.S. do?

TOWNSEND: Well, there's a number of things. Certainly you can respond in-kind as Phil suggests, that is virtually, a virtual attack back on North Korea. But you can think about putting him back on the counterterrorism designation list. There are additional sanctions that can be levied. And you can deny them access to the international financial system which is kind of the nuclear option, and it doesn't really involve anything having to do with cyber.

CAMEROTA: Hollywood actors are up in arms about this, as you can imagine, not just because it affects their livelihood. They say that it has bigger implications for all of us. George Clooney wrote a letter to studio heads. He wanted them to support Sony in releasing this movie. Here is what he wrote, a portion of his letter, "It's not just an attack on Sony. It involves every studio, every network, every business, every individual in this country. We know that to give in to these criminals now will open the door to any group that would threaten freedom of expression, privacy, and personal liberty." Phil, is this a harbinger, or at least even a message that the U.S. is sending that, yes, we do cave when you try to threaten us?

MUDD: Well, I think we've really got to consider this one. When Fran was at the White House, I was over at the CIA at the same time. We used to sit on threats that I think were far more substantial than what we've just seen. I hope in the future we don't have the same kind of response.

But, look, I don't blame Sony. The reason is we don't have experience in dealing with this kind of situation. We're kind of struggling through it. Three, four, five years down the road I hope we evolve in our response. Remember back again after 9/11, we developed the color coded system that people struggled to understand. We eventually didn't use that because I think it was confusing for folks. We're at the same stage with virtual attacks. We don't know how to respond. We're trying to sort our way through it. I agree with George Clooney. Hopefully the next time we'll say, hey, we can handle this, everybody enjoy the movies.

CAMEROTA: Did Sony blow it by doing this, but pulling the movie.

TOWNSEND: They did. And let's be clear, Sony did blow it. They could have weathered with it. And by the way, after all the publicity associated with this attack they would have made money on this movie. So to be clear this is not about sort of their concerns for the security issues related to this. This is solely self-preservation. They were embarrassed by these e-mails. They don't care about free speech and free expression. They care about Sony and they care about further embarrassment.

CAMEROTA: But of course weren't they also afraid, Fran, that if there were an attack, not even necessarily from these cyber hackers, if some lone wolf used this as an opportunity to do something in a movie theater, then everybody would have said why didn't they pull the movie?

TOWNSEND: That's right. So that explains why the theater operators pulled it. It doesn't explain why Sony didn't go over the top with video on demand and have premium distribution. They could have done that and you wouldn't have to worry about that. Sony cared about Sony and their own embarrassment. They did not care about free expression, George Clooney is right.

CAMEROTA: But Phil, given that there are these bigger implications about freedom of expression in our country should the White House have spoken out about this and somehow offered support of what was going to happen with Sony and this movie?

MUDD: There's got to be a partnership on this, because despite the fact that Sony has the choice about what to do with the movie, you have not only U.S. commercial intercept risk, you have a state sponsor, that is North Korean, involved. No private company can handle that kind of risk. You also have lives at stake. So I think you have to have a public-private partnership.

But I think the White House should have offered assurances to Sony that we can handle this kind of threat. I think Sony was probably surprised. I agree with Fran. I think they should have rolled this out, and I hope in the future we sit down a little more soberly and figure out how to handle these threats.

One more thing. You said if something happens here, if they had rolled it out and something had happened, what would people have said? We sat on risk every day in the counterterrorism room. If I responded, if Fran responded to every if, nothing would have ever happened in America. We would have told people to stay home. So I think you got to take some risk every day, and this is a risk I would have taken.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, Fran, what about the White House's reticence on this so far?

TOWNSEND: Look, I do think they knew this was coming, this was an ongoing attack. The White House appears to have been caught short by Sony's response, but they should have had a plan. As Phil suggests, when these threats develop, we develop plans so we're ready to roll, and the White House was caught flatfooted.

CAMEROTA: We'll see what the president says about all of this afternoon. Fran Townsend, Phil Mudd, thanks so much, great to see you guys.

There is other news. Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, thanks so much. It's 11 minutes past the hour. Breaking overnight, another tragedy in Australia. Eight children have been found stabbed to death in a home in a town along the northeast coast. The children were between the ages of 18 months and 15 years old. Police also say a 34-year-old woman was wounded. She's believed to be the mother to seven of the children. No suspects have been identified at this time.

The White House says they're not ruling out the possibility of Cuban president Raul Castro making a visit to Washington despite the island's record of human rights violations. In the meantime we have also learned the name of that spy who was released alongside Alan Gross. Sources tell CNN he has been identified now as Rolando Sarraff Trujillo, a Cuban national who helped lead the U.S. to a network of Cuban agents and other spies in the United States.

Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev spoke briefly during his first court appearance in a year and a half, acknowledging the judge on procedural issues. Now during that brief hearings the judge heard another push from the defense to try and move that trial out of Boston but the judge did not issue a ruling on that yet. Meanwhile, outside the courthouse emotions running high. A survivor, you see him here, confronting Tsarnaev supporters, showing him his prosthetic leg that he has after losing a limb in the attack. The trial is scheduled to begin early next year.

Just in time for the holidays, we love these stories. A little boy in Tennessee got the best gift of all. Six-year-old Aaron Williams thought nothing of it when Santa showed up during story time at show. Little did he know beneath that beard and under that hat was his dad Nicholas, a member of the air force who just wrapped up an eight-month tour in South Korea. What a great hug. Aaron's mom says he got his one Christmas wish, which was for daddy to come home. Not a dry eye in that room I'm sure.

CAMEROTA: That's beautiful. I love these stories!

CUOMO: Awesome sauce. That really is.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Especially the fighting men and women, they give up so much with their families as kids grow up and they don't have the same connection that we want to have with our kids. And of course, as we all know, you know, could have been anybody under that beard because those are Santa's helpers. So no mystery there, when he pulled the beard off, it was somebody else, his daddy. That's amazing.

CAMEROTA: Chris is always great at reminding us that's not the real Santa. Those are Santa's --

CUOMO: The Elf on the Shelf can tell you that. You don't need to hear that to me.

CAMEROTA: That's where you get all of your wisdom.

CUOMO: He's been telling me some things about you we'll have to talk about. Here comes the cold.

CAMEROTA: All right, coming up, big moves from President Obama. Since the bruising midterm election, he's taken on action on immigration, now Cuba. Is this just the beginning? What else does the president have up his sleeve for the final two years in office, and what can Republicans do about it? We'll discuss this.

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CUOMO: President Obama technically will be named in the lame duck phase of his presidency. He doesn't seem to be acting that way. The president has been working unilaterally since the midterm for diplomatic relations with Cuba, the China deal. I mean, there's a lot going on here.

So, what's the end game for the incoming Republican Congress? Will this work for or against the administration?

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Mr. Kevin Madden, and CNN political commentator, host of "Huff Post Live", Marc Lamont Hill.

Kevin, I'll start with you. Are you impressed by what the president, look -- they're going o stay on Marc, doesn't matter what I want.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Are you impressed what the president has done here, just made history in Cuba alone, was what he did by himself? Do you applaud his efforts?

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, of course not, because I think he needs to do a better job of working with the Congress. Look, if you look at the president's press conference after the midterm elections, he sent a pretty clear message with his body language he was not going to go quietly. So, I think a lot of these recent actions that you've seen are consistent with that. I think what's interesting for folks up on Capitol Hill, look, that's a crucial audience for his next two years they see this as the president not really listening because his own popularity was a reason that his party lost at the polls.

So, I think in that sense, I think the president is doing what a lot of presidents do in these last two years, he is fighting that lame duck status that you mentioned, Chris, it's hard as possible.

CAMEROTA: Marc, it seems like the president has decided to go it alone.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: To some extent. And going it alone though might not be the right language. That suggests that he's somehow bucking what the American people want and maybe even what a large number of members of Congress wants.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, he's bucking the midterm election results.

HILL: He's bucking the system. I mean, when you look at the midterm election results and the exit polls, people wanted financial relief. People wanted jobs for the middle class. People wanted protections, environmental protections and such and many of the executive orders and executive memoranda he's written have been in that area. I don't think he's going against the American trend, even if he's going against the midterm poll results.

CUOMO: Here's the problem, Kevin?

MADDEN: Yes.

CUOMO: You are making an assumption that we need to test, which is that it's OK for government to do nothing and that the president is, by going unilaterally, he is sending the wrong message to Congress. They have opportunities to act on all these levels, they have not, and often, their posture is, and "If you do anything Mr. President/Democrats, we'll work to stop you." That's not acceptable either, is it?

MADDEN: I think -- people want their government to work. Now, the president is only one part of that government.

CUOMO: But the other part won't work, Kevin. Let's address that.

MADDEN: The system we have, Chris, is not -- if one of the branches doesn't get its way, it acts unilaterally. The voters know that's the system and that's why they sent a message in these last midterm elections.

So, I think the president has an opportunity to work with Congress. Look, if you look at what John Boehner and Mitch McConnell said right after the midterms, they said look, they understand that we have to get the institution of Congress working again. Mr. President, come work with us on some of the big issues.

So, the big problem that some of these executive actions and some of the memorandums sent to Capitol Hill is, that they look like essentially executive temper tantrums. The president doesn't get his way. So, he acts unilaterally.

Look, there's a long-term negative effect there, which is that the Congress, the legislative and the executive then have this chasm between them where nothing gets done and it won't ever be this presidency. It could potentially be down the road as well.

HILL: I disagree with you, Kevin. I also disagree with you, Chris, even though you're supporting my argument. I think that --

CUOMO: So, it's gratuitous?

HILL: But it's important. It's important, because I don't want to defend a wrong argument, if it helps my case. I think you can't defend legislative action or executive action by saying the legislative branch isn't doing its job. There's a Constitution, and if the Constitution says you can't do it, you shouldn't do it even if Congress is behaving like children.

CUOMO: You think the Constitution says the president has done something up constitutional ?

HILL: And that's why I disagree with Kevin, because I think the better argument is, not that the president should do it, because Congress isn't doing its job, is that the president is doing his job. These executive actions and executive memoranda are within the scope of his power and not historically unprecedented.

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Marc, you said that they're not historic or unprecedented. Let me put up the graph here, because President Obama has passed more executive memoranda, another word for executive orders --

HILL: They're different?

CAMEROTA: Are they. President Obama, this is the Obama memos, so not executive orders, they're called a different name, but he has passed more than any of his predecessors.

HILL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So some people would say he is taking advantage of it. We have some tweets from people who have wanted to respond about this. This comes in from Chad, "It's unconstitutional. It's in blatant disregard for the design of our government's separation of powers by acting unilaterally."

HILL: Yes. Two things, first to the slightly less important point but noteworthy anyway, many of these memoranda aren't executive temper tantrums. They're not disregarding with the American people, not going even against what Congress wants. Many of these executive memoranda are things like making sure that workers get, federal workers get a day off after Christmas, things like that, things that aren't really particularly controversial. I don't want people to think every executive memorandum is setting foreign policy or immigration.

CAMEROTA: It is about immigration and climate change.

HILL: No doubt.

CAMEROTA: And things that would require debate.

HILL: Absolutely. And to that point, President Obama when it comes to executive orders has probably the fewest of his recent predecessor. When it comes to executive memoranda, he has more.

MADDEN: There's a reason for that, though.

HILL: There is absolutely is a reason for that.

MADDOW: The reason is that the executive orders, they require a statement of authority. The executive memorandums, they don't. So, in many ways, the president is creating new authorities for himself to act, and that's where there is a lot disagreement.

HILL: I disagree with you, Kevin. It's not new authority. And, again, there have been other executive actions describing what executive memoranda should look like and what they can entail. And you're right. I'm agreeing with you that they're not numbered. They're not logged

in the federal register in the same way. There are very important distinctions between the two.

MADDEN: And, Marc, for the record I'm agreeing with you agreeing with me.

HILL: Good.

And as a practical matter, yes, they do allow presidents to do things they can't do otherwise. No disagreement there.

But the president is also facing a level of opposition that no one has faced probably since Harry Truman as a do-nothing Congress. And as a result, that's why he's acting this way. But again, I don't think these things are out of step with what the American people want and that's why I'm comfortable with it.

CAMEROTA: All right. Marc Lamont Hill, Kevin Madden, thanks so much.

MADDEN: Great to be with you.

CUOMO: So, what do you think about to all those who agree to disagree and agree that they're agreeing? Tweet us right now. Go to NEW DAY and get us there. You go to Facebook.com/NewDay as well.

And the president himself is going to speak for his positions that he's taken over the course of the year, a news conference right here on CNN, at 1:30 p.m. Eastern Time. Watch it live.

CAMEROTA: And Sunday, Candy Crowley interviews President Obama on "STATE OF THE UNION" at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. Tune in for that.

Now, one of the big strokes of the pen from the president is the relationship with Cuba. Certainly, history but with a question: where is Fidel Castro? There's been radio silence from the ailing dictator since this week's announcement. Why?

We have CNN's Michael Smerconish. He sat down with Castro for an intimate dinner. He's going to bring it to us, next.

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PEREIRA: All right. Here we go with the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.

At number one, U.S. officials say they have proof North Korea's behind that Sony hack attack. The Obama administration is expected to reveal details and name North Korea as the attackers today.

The White House will not rule out a visit from Cuban President Raul Castro even though with Cuba's checkered human rights record. Meantime, sources tell CNN the spy who was released with Alan Gross has been identified as Rolando Sarraff Trujillo.

Eight children between the ages of 18 months and 15 years old were found stabbed to death in a home in Australia. A 34-year-old woman was also found wounded. She's believed to be the mother of seven of those children.

President Obama will hold his end of the year news conference today, expected to address several things from his executive action on immigration to the Senate CIA torture report. We'll have live coverage on CNN at 1:30 Eastern.

"The Colbert Report" is off the air after nine years. The comedian taped his final episode Thursday night. He thanked his nation and led in a sing-along filled with all sorts of celebrities. You see our Christiane Amanpour there. He'll take the reins of "The Late Show" next year.

We do update those five things to know. Visit NewdayCNN.com for the latest and freshest.

All right. "NEW DAY, New You" -- you know the accepted wisdom, avoid other people in the winter if you want to avoid those nasty colds as well.