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NEW DAY

School Children Killed in Taliban Attack; New York on High Alert After Sydney Siege; Camille Cosby Defense Her Husband

Aired December 16, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

We are following breaking news. The death toll continuing to climb in a Taliban terror attack at a school in the Pakistani city of Peshawar. Right now, we're told 126 people have been killed, a lot of them are children. This is at the hand of armed gunmen from the Taliban. Suicide bombers involved as well.

There is still a standoff under way. We do hear that the military is making some headway. That some of the bad people have been taken out as we're being told. But it is still far from over.

Let's turn to Atika Shubert tracking developments for us live from London.

What do we understand currently?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Definitely far from over. In fact, the spokesperson for the Pakistan military has put out a statement saying they now have killed five of the attackers. They've managed to rescue two students and two staff members.

But that they are still trying to get other attackers there. They have them surrounded and confined to the last four blocks of the school. And the exact wording he used was, quote, "clearance under way."

So, this is very much still a fluid situation. In the meantime, there are two main hospitals that many of the victims are being brought to. We've just getting some video that's been coming in now of parents just absolutely distraught. Many of those bodies draped with white cloths.

And just to give you a sense of the carnage, most of those who died were children, between the ages of 12-16. Many of these were children of army families in the area that went to the school. This is why this military-run school in particular seems to have been targeted by the Pakistan Taliban.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Atika, thanks for the update.

Let's bring in now, Bobby Ghosh. He's a CNN global affairs analyst and managing editor of "Quartz". Bobby, nice to see you on this horrible morning with the news out of Pakistan.

Why is the Taliban slaughtering children? How does that advance whatever they claim their cause is?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, this is what they do. They've been -- this is a big school and we're paying attention to it. Over several years, they've destroyed hundreds, possibly thousands of schools all over that part of Pakistan.

So, there are two different things here. They're anti-modern education and they're anti-the Pakistani military and, let's face it, they're anti-pretty much everybody in the civilized world.

You could ask, why is this -- I mean this is obviously a big PR coup for them. Why is this PR? How is killing innocent children good for a cause?

But this is what they thrive on. They thrive on showing themselves to be so tough that they will do anything. You come after us, we come after your kids. There's that sort of gangster element to this.

They don't care, you had Christiane saying this earlier in the program, they don't care about modern mores about what is acceptable and what is not, they don't care that these are children. They don't care what global public opinion is.

They are trying to send two different messages, to the Pakistani government, to the Pakistani army, they're trying to intimidate. And to their own supporters, they're showing, look how tough we are, we stop at nothing.

CUOMO: Also, you have to know, there's a another layer to the problem in Pakistan that's different from what we've seen in the U.S. You have the enemy outside, Taliban, and you have the enemy inside, Bobby. You know, we can't hide from the reality that within the Pakistani government and military, you do have crossover and sympathies with the Taliban, which makes it harder for policing situations like this.

GHOSH: For years, some elements of the Pakistani army and the certainly some elements to the Pakistani spy agency, the ISI, have been collaborating with groups that eventually became the Pakistani Taliban.

These are not -- it's important to make the distinction. This is the Pakistani Taliban. This is not the Afghan Taliban.

So, these are people who are killing fellow Pakistanis. They're killing children. They're killing their fellow nationals. It shows you how far from modern reality these people are.

They don't respect borders. They don't respect anything that the rest of the world would consider basic human decency.

CAMEROTA: They claim -- the Pakistani Taliban has taken responsibility for this and they claim this is revenge for the killing of hundreds of innocent tribesmen during the Pakistani army's operations, along the border region. Is it worth it trying to negotiate with the Taliban, to give them what they want in order for them to stop doing this?

GHOSH: Well, it's been tried several times. I mean, one of Pakistani's most popular politicians, Imran Khan, a former cricketer, international playboy, he's now called Taliban Kahn, because he's worked so much to try to bring these guys in from the cold, bring them to the negotiating table, but their demands are impossible. What they want is a return to the sixth century.

You can't -- nobody can negotiate that with them. They want no schools. They want girls not to get any opportunities for education or anything else for that matter. They want a return to this, their idea of Eden is this very primitive place where no Pakistani wants to go there. When, they are only able to force people to do these things out of fear.

CUOMO: Well, it depends on which Pakistanis you're talking about, too, right? The culture there as I understand it, Bobby -- and a lot of it comes from you -- is that there was a real bourgeois class that was very Westernized, modernized and you have much more rural and set- back ways that are there and one of the fair criticisms is they've given too much to the Taliban already, Pervez Musharraf, then- president of Pakistan, wouldn't tell me whether or not they would hand over Osama bin Laden if he were captured by Pakistani forces, at the same time that they were getting hundreds of millions from us supposedly to be an ally there from the United States.

How do you deal with that in assessing what they care about?

GHOSH: That's one of the things that the Pakistani military has, this is the Frankenstein's monster come back to haunt Pakistan, the Pakistani military, the Pakistani ISIS, has for decades been creating groups like this, for different purposes.

Keep in mind, Peshawar is the crucible of modern Islamist jihadi militancy. This is where the CIA and the Pakistani military collaborated to create the jihadi groups that attacked the Soviet Union when, during the occupation of Afghanistan. This is where the Afghan Taliban essentially was born.

This is a city that is very familiar with this kind of -- unfortunately, with this kind of activity. A year ago, two suicide bombers attacked a church in Peshawar, if you remember, 130 people nearly were killed. Attacks in Peshawar happen all the time, perhaps not to this scale. But it has become part of the culture of the city.

We can talk separately about the culture of Pakistan, but Peshawar itself is quite unique. It's on this border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. It has been a sort of, it's hard to say this about a city of 3.5 million people, but it's kind of like the badlands, it's sort of a little bit like the Wild West in popular American imagination.

There are different kinds of gangs operating there, different jihadi groups operating there. Law only extends so far. And there's too much collaboration between what you would regard as the forces of the law and the forces of evil, if you like, that it's impossible to tell who is working for who at any given time.

CAMEROTA: Bobby Ghosh, it sounds all so intractable, but it's so helpful to get all of your information -- thanks so much for being here.

GHOSH: Anytime.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, we've had a lot of horrific news to report in the past couple of days, the deadly hostage siege in Sydney, Australia, and the Taliban attack on this Pakistan school, prompting concerns about terrorism, of course, worldwide and in the U.S. Cities like New York are now on high alert.

We will speak with a top official with the NYPD about what they're doing today to prepare.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: OK. Welcome back to you. We have the ongoing situation in Pakistan. We have the hostage crisis that just happened in Sydney, Australia, both of these amplified worries about so-called lone wolf and new types of terror attacks.

So, on Monday, the New York police department went on high alert, beefing up security at key locations around the city, including the Australian consulate. And some people are wondering well, what can you do in situations like? Can you really be safe enough?

Well, we have someone who can answer the questions, NYPD deputy commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism, Mr. John Miller.

Welcome to NEW DAY.

JOHN MILLER, NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF INTELLIGENCE & COUNTERTERRORISM: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you for being with us. Pleasure here.

You look at Pakistan, attacking a school, kids, you think that everything has some line of decency, even more, it turns out not to be true. Can you be safe from something like that?

MILLER: If you -- you don't have to look at Pakistan, we had something that was called Newtown here. This is not something that happens in the primitive world.

This is something we factor into a crazy new normal in a society where people believe that empowerment comes with violence.

CUOMO: So, what do you do where it's -- the Taliban is an organized group set aims, you know you are at war with them. Then you talk about Newtown, you have one person, obviously mentally unstable, untreated, can you prepare for those two threats the same way? MILLER: I think you can prepare for the end game the same way. A

school attack is a school attack. And in this case, in the United States it was one individual, in Columbine, it was two. In Pakistan it was a group of trained Taliban fighters likely. But it's you know the world is a dangerous place.

CUOMO: Sydney, they knew about this guy, he had a big rap sheet. He was sending horrible letters to the families of Australian military. He was obviously was engaging in extremism. Their laws are somewhat similar to ours.

What can you do with a guy like that to keep him close?

MILLER: Well, this is one of the difficulties in a free, democratic society. If you look at Sydney, you can also look at Canada from October 20, 22, 24, Martin Rouleau, who ran over the Canadian soldiers with his vehicle on behalf of ISIS, was on the radar screen of Canadian authorities before. Mr. Bibeau who shot at parliament two days later was on the radar screen of the authorities. They had tried to Syria to fight. They have been detected and stopped.

But I think, Chris, you have to realize that the message from ISIS is that the willing are part of ISIS. The message they pump out on very sophisticated marketing videos is that you should act -- come here and fight with us, if you can't come here and fight with us, fight for us where you are. And don't reinvent the wheel. Use what you have at hand. That's what we saw in Canada, that's what we saw in Sydney.

CUOMO: You've been on both sides of this idea of punishing thought, right? You're at the media at the top of the game for a very long time. Now, you're working on the government side. Do you think that you need to change the rules of what you're allowed to do to people based on what they're thinking and what they're saying?

MILLER: I don't know about changing the rules. I know we have to rethink some of this. I mean when you look at a number of cases where individuals were trying to travel to Syria and they were prevented from that.

Now that's good intelligence. This guy is going to go fight for a terrorist group, we don't know who he's going to be when he comes back here or what his training is. So, let's nip that in the bud.

CUOMO: That's an action. What do you do with the person who is saying man, woman, child, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, if I could, I would, if I could, I would? What do you do with them?

MILLER: Well, if you have somebody saying I want to commit an act of violence, there are some things you can do. The real problem is, and this is, it's complicated to live in a free society, in a democratic society, where there's a First Amendment and free thought, which is radicalism in terms of thought, is as legal as anything else, as American as apple pie.

It's turning that into violent action, that makes it a crime. And people who operate in the seams between that, we can look at closely. But there's not a lot we can do until you see those first steps to take action.

CUOMO: So, it becomes about how quickly you can act.

Now on a question that is not terrorism-related, but is in terms of how you divide between thought and action. These Garner protests haven't stopped. They were expected to peter out by many in government. They haven't.

What do you do, as a police force to address this culture issue that people are pointing out? How do you deal with it? Because ignoring it is part of the problem.

MILLER: Well, if you look at the New York City police department, and you go back 20 years, you look at the number of shots fired by police officers, it's been going down dramatically. The number of uses of force by police officers have been going down dramatically. The number of civilian complaints against police officers have been going down and went down another 7 percent. So, there's a bit of reality.

But there's also perception. When you have this widespread perception driven by the disparity between thoughts in the minority communities in New York, which are now the majority communities, New York is now a majority-minority city, where you have those divides. You have to address it directly. And that means better community relations, more outreach to the community, better training for the police officers, because the simple fact of the matter is, if that is how people perceive their police if that's how they feel, you only way you can do that is through engagement.

Right now, the crime picture is pretty good. We're about to have the lowest crime year in recorded history. But when you have a schism between parts of your communities and your police, it's something you have to work on.

CUOMO: It's very important for us to know how the people in charge of keeping us safe are thinking and that's why I appreciate you coming on the show, John.

MILLER: Well, thanks for having me.

CUOMO: Best to you and the family for the holidays.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right. Chris, we'll get back to our breaking news in a second.

But, first, Bill Cosby's wife is speaking out for the first time after dozens of women accused her husband of sexually assaulting them. What does his wife have to say about all of this?

Plus, of course, the breaking news out of Pakistan. A huge and horrific attack on the school by the Taliban, stay tuned for live reports.

Is speaking out for the first time after dozens of women accused her husband of sexually assaulting them. What does his wife have to say about all of this? >

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY.

Who is the victim? A question posed by Camille Cosby, Bill Cosby's wife of more than 50 years. It is the first time Mrs. Cosby has made a public statement acknowledging the sexual assault and rape allegations that are being faced by her husband. She's defiantly standing by Mr. Cosby.

Let's bring in attorney and radio personality Mo Ivory. Brian Stelter is here as well, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES".

Well, the two of you, we hear from Mrs. Cosby. What -- what do you think, Brian? Was this part of team Cosby? What was the strategy of putting her out there?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SR. MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: There has never seemed to be a coherent strategy and I think that's still true today. You know her statement in, who is the victim? Clearly, she thinks her husband is the victim of all of this.

PEREIRA: And maybe perhaps herself.

STELTER: And herself as well. That's a great point. I don't think that resonates with the vast majority of people that keep hearing about these allegations every day.

PEREIRA: I want to read a little bit of it here. A different man has been portrayed in the media over the last two months. It is the portrait of a man I do not know. It is also a portrait painted by individuals and organizations whom many in the media have given a pass.

It's interesting, Mo, definitely standing by her man, definitely taking some shots at the media -- pretty easy target.

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY & RADIO PERSONALITY: No, absolutely. And listen, she's been married to Bill Cosby for over 50 years. One thing I think about that, the statement this is not the man I know, is a little bit disingenuous, because she does know that in 2006 he settled a sexual assault case with a woman. And that there were other women in that case testified they, too, had been the victim.

So, back in 2006, it never got the media attention that it's getting now. But Camille was certainly aware that these things were going on and it was able to sort of be buried in a way that it hasn't been able to be this time. But she certainly knows this is not the first rodeo for Bill Cosby being accused of sexual assault.

PEREIRA: She also goes on to say there appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers before stories are published or aired and accusation is published and immediately goes viral. Well, we here at CNN take great exception, Brian, to them saying that, because we carefully vetted each of the women that came on our air.

STELTER: That's the part I thought was most disingenuous to be perfectly honest with you. There's been a lot of vetting going on here, and if anything these alleged victims have gone through a lot, maybe gone through hell in the media. There's been a lot of vetting.

There have been attacks from Cosby's lawyers, in some cases pointing out legitimate points. In other cases just smearing the victims here.

PEREIRA: Mo, I think this is one that seems like such a left turn. I want to read this statement. She compares what is going on with her husband, essentially to the rape allegations surrounding the University of Virginia. Let me read it to you.

"The story was heart-breaking but ultimately appears to be proved to be untrue. Many in the media were quick to link that story, to stories about my husband until that story unwound."

What do you make of that bizarre comparison?

IVORY: That it's bizarre, Michaela. I don't know where that comparison came to be and I was actually a little bit disappointed in that language, whether it's Camille's language or crafted for her to say.

But, listen, I went to Spelman College during a time that Camille and Bill Cosby gave the huge gift I've seen her speak at Spelman, 1,000 times.

PEREIRA: What's your sense of her?

IVORY: Yes, you know, I was just a little -- I understand why she is standing by her husband. This is a woman who stood by her husband always. She's been a mother, she's been a caretaker and she's been out of the spotlight for much of that time. So, she's a very dignified woman and I think that this whole episode is sort of putting a tarnish on what kind of woman stands by a man that has done this?

So, I know it's been difficult for her, but I don't think making sort of those sweeping comparisons to something that's not at all comparable to what Bill Cosby is going through, takes away a little bit of sort of the credibility that I've had of her, as a woman that just you know, is also in the forefront of women's issues and things that women stand for, which is the way I've always seen her portray herself, whether at Spelman or just in her life.

PEREIRA: Brian, quick, final thought?

STELTER: What a hard time for her. You know, there are parts of the statement that I thought were disingenuous. When I saw, "Who is the victim?", I thought that came off wrong.

PEREIRA: Right, right.

STELTER: At the same time hearing you talk, Mo, what a terrible time for this family and this family is trying to stay together. PEREIRA: Absolutely.

IVORY: Yes.

PEREIRA: Mo Ivory, Brian Stelter, great to have you.

We have a lot of breaking news today, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A deadly attack on a school in Pakistan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six militants with suicide vests.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Taliban gunmen entered the school after scaling its walls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have heard explosions coming from the school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Children are said to be still inside the school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The death toll is continuing to rise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The siege is over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sydney remains on high alert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just the kind of guy that ISIS wants.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things like this don't happen in Sydney.

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are ready to deal with these people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just because we don't believe in the bad guys doesn't mean the bad guys aren't trying to kill us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: And welcome back to NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, December 16th, it's 7:00 a.m. in the East. I'm Alisyn Camerota, alongside Chris Cuomo.

We're following breaking news for you, because there's been another terror strike, this time at a school in Pakistan. Armed Taliban gunmen and suicide bombers storming the school with hundreds of children caught in the crossfire. At this moment, the death toll is 126. Most of them students, but that number we're warned could climb higher.

CUOMO: And remember, it is an active situation. There's no question that kids have been killed, so we'll give you information as we get it.

Now, you're looking at one situation that has thankfully ended. The hostages down in Sydney. It did turn into a deadly siege. The question is, who was this man? Could he have been stopped before? Could more lives been saved during this situation?

First, though, let's focus on Pakistan.