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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Deadly School Attack in Pakistan; Cameraman Speaks About Siege in Sydney; Manhunt in Pennsylvania

Aired December 16, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Check out "RELIABLE SOURCES" to see more of Brian's terrific reporting.

That's all for us @ THIS HOUR. "LEGAL VIEW" with Pamela Brown starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Ashleigh Banfield on this Tuesday.

And we begin with breaking news. The firefights are over, the terrorists apparently dead, but the civilized world can barely contain its revulsion this hour of what Pakistan is calling a, quote, "ghostly act of cowardice" against the very heart of the nation. It happened at the Army Public School compound near Peshawar, near the Afghan border. A half dozen members of the Pakistani Taliban are blamed for the deaths of at least 141 people, almost all of them students, children age 12 to 16. Many more students are wounded. CNN's Atika Shubert has been following this ordeal from our London bureau.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was just before 12:00 p.m. when a group of gunmen stormed the school after scaling the walls. The Pakistan Taliban claiming responsibility, calling this a revenge attack after they say Pakistan's military launched a major military offensive against them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The military runs a number of schools. They call them the Army Public Schools. Clearly this was chosen because of its affiliation with the military and also because it was a soft target. There are children there.

SHUBERT: A Taliban spokesman claiming six suicide bombers were ordered to attack the school, their goal, to shoot older students. A security official says nearly 700 students and staff were in the building when the attack began. The students are aged 10 to 18. Over the past few months, the Pakistan military has been trying to clear out militants along its border with Afghanistan through a ground offensive. The campaign has displaced tens of thousands of people and killed over 1,600 militants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thank you to Atika Shubert there.

Well, less than a week ago, a Pakistani schoolgirl whom the Taliban tried to silence two years ago was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Today, Malala Yousufzai says she's heartbroken by this senseless and cold-blooded act of terror. Innocent children and their school have no place in horror such as this. She goes on, I condemn these atrocious and cowardly acts and stand united with the government and armed forces of Pakistan, whose efforts so far to address this horrific event are commendable.

I want to bring in now CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, Malala could have stopped just by condemning the bloodshed here, but she specifically praised Pakistan's military, as we just heard there. So, if you would, talk to us about this on-again, off- again war between the military and the Taliban so we better understand it.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and we talked to her last week. You know, she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. She's the youngest ever and it's for her fight against the Taliban. And so she knows it better than anything else.

But you're right, there is this war inside Pakistan as to how best to confront the Taliban. And whether, in fact, they even recognize that these jihadists, these extremists, mostly the Taliban, are their biggest threat. Pakistan has always saw Afghanistan as a big threat or India as a big threat or the United States as a big threat. But actually it is these jihadists. And there are mixed reports about whether Pakistan's new army chief gets it. Apparently he does get it, that these jihadis are their very big enemy. But also he's been accused of colluding, in fact, in some of these Taliban sort of attacks and some of this sort of growth, as have many of the Pakistan security agencies over the years, being accused of being way too close to the Taliban and to these extremists. So that is something that's going to have to be really worked out. And until - or rather before this kind of terrorism can be really defeated there.

BROWN: I mean, it is just an atrocity that you just cannot comprehend, Christiane. And the Taliban in Pakistan did not hesitate to claim responsibility and to say why it did this. Of course, nothing could justify it. But what did they say their motive is for what they did?

AMANPOUR: Well, their motive is revenge, they say, plain and simple. And they called in a spokesman to CNN to say precisely that. Revenge for some of the latest, most recent offensives by the military against the Taliban at the behest and the encouragement of the United States. The U.S. has been trying to get the military to recognize the Taliban are a huge threat and to move against them for years now. And this happened with spotty results. And we still don't know how this is going to play out. But, you know, the Taliban have done this for years. Schools are their favorite targets. And they have been sort of ratcheting this up both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan.

You know, here's the thing about the Taliban. In both countries, they are mostly, by and large, militarily - certainly in Afghanistan - militarily defeated, really, in terms of a major, major threat, or rather, you know, you know, but they haven't -- let me reverse that. They have been politically defeated, which is the good news. The majorities of people in Afghanistan and Pakistan do not support the Taliban. But militarily, they are showing themselves to be a threat and increasingly a threat, both in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. So that is where the attack has to happen against them.

BROWN: And you say that their motive here was revenge, that schools are their favorite target. But in this case, why did the Taliban target this particular school, Christiane?

AMANPOUR: Because it's an army-run school and it's in that area, which is the northwest frontier area, very close to the Afghan border, where most of the recent offensives against them have been launched by the Pakistan military. So they say that that is a revenge attack.

I mean it is grotesque that they use children to play out their war. But this is what they've done. And this is - you know, it's not the first time. And this probably won't be the last time. It is the most horrendous attack so far. The numbers show that it's the worst attack in the last seven years in Pakistan, but the numbers, you know, may continue to go up. And it truly is a terrible thing that's happened.

BROWN: It's just -- it's devastating. Thank you so much, Christiane Amanpour. We appreciate it.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BROWN: And moving now to Sydney, a city recovering after a deadly hostage situation. A memorial for the victims is growing. And for one photographer, the images he saw will stay with him forever. He was one of the only people allowed to stay in the newsroom right across the street from the Lindt cafe and he sat next to a police sniper for hours. His incredible story, you won't want to miss, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Authorities in Sydney are working around the clock investigating what happened during the 16-hour siege at the Lindt cafe. Today, Prime Minister Tony Abbott and his wife laid flowers at the growing makeshift memorial at Martin Place. There's been a steady stream of people doing the same as we see in the pictures. Authorities have identified the two hostages who were killed. Katrina Dawson, 38, a mother of three, and Tori Johnson, 34, the manager of the cafe. The Australian Broadcasting Corporation reported that Johnson was trying to wrestle the gun from the hostage-taker. "The Courier (ph) Mail" says Dawson was trying to defend a pregnant colleague. Police have not yet confirmed those reports, saying what happened is still under investigation.

And the Channel 7 Newsroom is right across from the Lindt cafe. It was evacuated early on in the siege, but a reporter and cameraman were allowed back in to help authorities. Greg Parker's cameras captured the horrific scene as the hours went by. And for the first time, he's revealing what was going on behind the lens and what affected him the most.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GREG PARKER, SENIOR CAMERAMAN, SEVEN NETWORK: For me, one of the hardest things to see was those three women forced to hold that flag up and up against the glass. And then another image of a poor guy in obvious distress with a muzzle of a shotgun, you know, in frame, being pointed at his head. And that was the first time we'd seen a clear, threatening pose that it was -- the gun was pointed at a bloke's head, who is, you know, very passive stance up against the glass.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Veteran cameraman Greg Parker has been around the block a few times. He's seen good. He's also seen evil. But never this close to home.

PARKER: It did start like any other day. But one of our producers had literally just walked back in the door, a Lindt hot chocolate in hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within minutes of the attack on the Lindt cafe, Greg has three cameras, including one with a powerful 600 millimeter lens, trained on the four coffee shop windows. When police snipers arrived to take up position in our newsroom, they saw immediate value in keeping Greg at their side.

PARKER: I knew we were getting something pretty remarkable in what we could see with that lens on the camera. And the sniper concurred and then said, you know, could we - could we stay there and keep sweeping and giving him continual information of what we were seeing behind the glass. They were, you know, suitably impressed with the scope of what we were getting from them from our camera and straight up said, can you stay, can you keep that shot up for us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was soon just Greg, a police sniper and a police technician in the eerie quiet of an empty newsroom. For 16 hours, Greg quietly fed these remarkable, chilling images to police headquarters.

PARKER: The guys back in the police sort of command were then asking for specific shots. So we would put on Kevlar vests and came down and relocated cameras as they needed them to be, specifically that window that they called window four, where the flag was being sort of held up was where the gunman was continually sort of positioning himself and putting hostages between himself and the window and himself and the door. It was genuinely horrible. In 20 years, you know, it's very rare to come across such upsetting footage. There's nothing you can do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the world watched the chaos and heartbreak of Australia's biggest city grappling to come to grips with terror, Greg and the police sniper crouched quietly just meters from the scene.

PARKER: For a real long time it was just him and I, I think, for five or six hours making small talk. And, you know, to be honest, the situation kept us pretty busy because we were both looking for any opportunity that was going to effect a positive outcome. And then we continually were sort of blown away at just how sad the situation was as it went on and on. We both just were sort of praying that these families -- these people were going to get out. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were little victories.

PARKER: Every time hostages escaped, we were cheering, you know, high- fiving almost. It was awesome to see. But then, the longer it went on, the lights went off, you know, the signs weren't looking good and, you know, the scene was getting sort of worse by the hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the hours ticked by, the gunman's behavior became more erratic.

PARKER: We continually saw him moving, almost shoving and walking behind in a really intimidating, angry, kind of threatening manner. It was just horrible to see. You could see him communicating, and especially after those guys escaped, he became quite agitated. He was grabbing the hostages and moving them and continually keeping them between the window and himself it seemed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still, the entire focus of emergency services was obtaining a peaceful resolution.

PARKER: I was in awe of the way they handled it and the patience they showed because they were tried and proven methods of how to get the best possible result. And that was constantly being relayed to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But their patience ran out with the echo of a single gunshot.

PARKER: We heard a shot. He confirmed hostage down, window two. Six seconds later, we saw the special forces guys breach. It was - it was pretty loud, pretty frightening. It's like nothing I've ever seen before, ever. The moment he crossed the line of taking down a hostage, it was a forced action from police. In my mind and probably in anyone else's it - seeing it, they're not going to sit around and wait for another hostage, you know, to have the same fate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After all Greg Parker saw on Sydney's longest, darkest night, it's the terror on the faces of those victims in the early hours of the siege which will live with him for the rest of his life.

PARKER: The thing that probably keeps going through my mind the most is the look of just anguish on those faces of those people being forced to stand in that window. But matched with that, the sheer courage of those police officers and, you know, the nonstop stories and the info I was getting from the sniper, who was telling us how and what to do different things and then to see the way they sort of went in with sort of no fear for their own safety to get people out, I'm never going to forget that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Just incredible.

And the lingering question remains, why did the hostage-taker do this? What was his motive? We're going to bring you any updates or answers to those questions as soon as they come in. And moving now to another chilling story, this time out of

Pennsylvania. A dangerous gunman is on the loose at this hour after he allegedly killed his ex-wife and his in-laws. The latest on the intense manhunt, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There is a massive manhunt underway right now in eastern Pennsylvania for an Iraq war veteran suspected of killing six of his former family members. Police say 35-year-old Bradley William Stone killed his ex-wife and five of his former in-laws, including a 14- year-old girl. And police say he is armed and dangerous.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is live in Harleysville, Pennsylvania, where a news conference ended just moments ago.

Miguel, what did you learn?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that they have a new photograph of him and they think that this is more likely the way that Mr. Stone looks. Bradley Stone is who they are looking for. This was taken in November 2014, just last month. This photo has been digitally altered to take the beard off because they believe that he did shave slightly just before all of this happened. It leads to the question of whether or not he planned to kill these individuals and then escape, much like Eric Frein did, not too far from this very location. We are northwest of Philadelphia. And this entire area is on alert. Schools here, some of them, have shut for the day. Others are on a modified schedule because of concerns over this search.

The district attorney concluding that press conference a short time ago telling us that the 17-year-old that was shot, the only survivor out of all this so far, is in serious but stable condition and they still hope that he will survive. Also that the possible sighting of Mr. Stone last night does not appear to be valid. They also say that they are going -- they've searched his home, his car and his cell phone. And at this point, they have no idea where he is.

All of this, obviously, taking place -- kicking off yesterday after a hung-up 911 call about 4:30 in the morning. Police started to investigate then. It led them to three gruesome scenes, six individuals dead, including Mr. Stone's ex-wife, his ex-wife's mother, the grandmother, the sister-in-law, her husband and their 14-year-old daughter. The only survivor so far out of this is that 17-year-old who is clinging to life. Many, many agencies, including the FBI and S.W.A.T. teams from several surrounding communities here on alert, on the search, hoping that they can bring this guy in soon.

Pam.

BROWN: And, Miguel, you said the possible sighting last night is seen as not valid according to police. So do we know when and where Stone was last spotted?

MARQUEZ: The last place that they would know where he was, was where some of these murders took place. It is -- and it is not clear where he is now. They have searched a very wide area, each of these towns about a half hour apart. So they're not entirely sure where he is now. The last place that they saw him, though, at one of those scenes.

Pamela.

BROWN: Wow, really concerning for the community there you can imagine. Thank you so much, Miguel Marquez.

And the race for 2016 is on. Jeb Bush just announced he will actively explore a presidential run. In a FaceBook posting today, the former Florida governor says he made the decision after conversations with his family over Thanksgiving about the future of the nation.

Meantime, Sony is asking news organizations, including CNN, to stop examining and publicizing the corporate secrets that hackers have made public. The hackers are trying to stop Sony from releasing the controversial film "The Interview" about a plot to assassinate North Korea's Kim Jong-un. Academy Award winning screenwriter Aaron Sorkin told NBC, there's no value in releasing the e-mails.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON SORKIN, SCREENWRITER: There are certainly times when the press should -- has an obligation to publish things that were stolen. I talk about the Pentagon papers, but you don't even have to use that as your standard. Loosen the standards a little bit. Is there anything in these e-mails at all that's in the public interest, that points to wrongdoing at the company, that helps anyone in any way? There isn't. There's just gossip there. You can loosen the standards even more, but ultimately you have to dispense with standards entirely in order to be OK with publishing these e-mails.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Bill Cosby's wife, Camille, is defending her husband against the sexual assault allegations against him. Here's part of her statement. "A different man has been portrayed in the media over the last two months. It is the portrait of a man I do not know. It is also a portrait painted by individuals and organizations who many in the media have given a pass. There appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers before stories are published or aired. An accusation is published and immediately goes viral," she says. No criminal charges have been filed and Bill Cosby has denied or declined to comment on the accusations.

Well, a former CIA official is speaking out on the agency's enhanced interrogation program. And he says, to understand, you have to consider this is what the CIA faced right after 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mood of the population is, this is OK, this is more than OK. And, by the way, if we ever see another jumper from the 100th floor of a building in New York, it's on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Why he's defending the CIA's program, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: I want to update you now on a terror attack in Pakistan, that even by Taliban standards is shocking for its brutality. A half dozen militants with guns and bombs infiltrated the Army Public School compound in the northwest city of Peshawar and killed at least 141 people, all but nine of them students, children aged 12 to 16. For hours, troops battled terrorists room by room until the attackers themselves were killed, but not before they planted explosives which still are being sought out and neutralized at this hour. Pakistan is calling the attack a, quote, "ghastly act of cowardice." And President Obama says terrorists have once again shown their depravity.

Well, the grisly revelations in last week's Senate report on CIA torture stirred up a lot of new debate and a fair amount of outrage. But overall, Americans are more OK than not about what they learned. And CIA veterans by and large are very OK with it. This was the subject of a fascinating discussion on CNN's "New Day." And I want to reply that for you now. Here's my colleague, Chris Cuomo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": A majority of people just like you feel comfortable with the brutal interrogation methods used by the CIA against detainees after 9/11. That is the fact of a poll coming out from the Pew Research Center. The numbers are right in front of your face right now. Fifty-one percent of Americans find the methods to be justified. Only 29 percent don't agree with them.

Let's bring in Phil Mudd. You've been hearing from a lot of people who say, I knew somebody who was in the program, I worked there but I wasn't with the program, I kind of knew things. This is different. He is a CNN counterterrorism analyst, but he is a former deputy director of the counterterrorism center at the CIA.

You know what was going on there, good, bad, ugly, and you know who knew. So the first question for you is a softball. What do you think of these poll numbers saying that the American people agree with what the CIA did and even basically an even split, let's put up, provided intelligence that prevented attacks, yes, 42 percent, no, 43 percent. The decision to release the commit report, split, right decision, 42 percent, wrong decision, 43 percent. What do these numbers mean to you, Mr. Mudd?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think the most interesting thing to me is not what these numbers say. We're in 2014 when military diplomatic intelligence efforts have decimated the adversary that murdered 3,000 people 13 years ago. Can you imagine this poll if we had done it on September 12th? That was the environment in which CIA established a program that was authorized by the Department of Justice and the Congress.