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Stand Off Ends in Sydney, Australia; Hostage Taker Used Social Media; Australia Isolated But Not Immune to Attacks; News Conference on Hostage Taking in Australia

Aired December 15, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Los Angeles.

Updating our top story this hour, a hostage standoff ends with two people dead including the hostage taker. Here are the latest developments. Police and Special Forces stormed the cafe in Sydney where a gunman was holding employees and customers hostage. A source says there were nine people in the building at the time. No word on the second person, who was killed. Three others were wounded. They are listed in serious condition.

Earlier, before the raid, some of the hostages held up a black flag with Arabic writing. Others pressed hands against the window. Police were monitoring social media where hostages were posting information about the gunman's demands.

For more on how the siege played out in Sydney, specifically on social media, let's bring in CNN Tom Foreman. He's been going through the social media for us.

Walk us through what you're finding out, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this was undeniably a force multiplier for this man who took these hostages. He used social media to create the image that he was much bigger than one person. Maybe there were other people involved. Police have to look into that. But at the moment, he created this fiction of a much bigger world. One of the ways he did this was through the use of the hostages themselves, videos he forced them to post on video services out there in which they made statements. There were four of these where they repeated his demands. They grew ever more urgent. They were asking for certain demands. One of the things they said was, "It's not hard to meet these demands. Please help us. It's simple. He wants an ISIS flag and wants the prime minister to speak to him on live media. Pretty straight forward. What else can we do? I'm begging." So by pushing these videos out there, he essentially set up, Wolf, his own broadcast operation to get his message out to the world about what he wanted, when he wanted it and to see if he could force the authority's hands -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Police are getting ready for this news conference. We're standing by. About 5:34 a.m. in Sydney right now.

They were really concerned, though, about the news media airing these social media posts from the hostages. Explain their concerns and why most of the international news media accepted the police's requests.

FOREMAN: This has been a standard operating procedure for as long as I have known. When you have somebody holding hostages issue the police want to be the only negotiator. They don't want this person getting a bigger sense of themselves, reaching out with a bigger message and getting pressure from the outside. They want one-on-one negotiations cutting off the lines of communications, getting news agencies to agree to that was helpful in the situation, as it almost always is -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Tom Foreman monitoring the social media aspect of this crisis for 16 hours- plus. Only now we're beginning to learn details.

We're standing by for a news conference from Sydney. Local law enforcement who are going to explain what they can about what happened, how this operation went down.

Australia may be isolated on a continent of its own, but attacks like the one we have seen today shows how far these international terrorists potentially are able to reach those who are inspired by them. Much more on this part of the story, when we come back.

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BLITZER: It's no secret Australia has been a partner in the U.S.-led coalition in the Middle East, a very close partner of the United States. But incidents like the one today also highlight the fact that Australia is not immune to the troubles in the Middle East, even though it's far away. As many as 100 Australians are believed to have joined ISIS they have become even more sophisticated.

Our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is joining us from the CNN Center.

Nick, do incidents like this one, the one that unfolded today, 16 hours of this siege, if you will, downtown Sydney Australia, does it wind up hurting ISIS or does it help ISIS recruit new supporters?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You might think some of the mixed messaging, the flag that isn't necessarily the branding that ISIS uses, that mixed messaging. It might detract from recruits to ISIS. But probably the ISIS is the case. This is the kind of global spectacle that's really the many ways of those who would take them around the world. Certainly online there's been plenty of cheering on in Sydney. This does tie into much of the messaging ISIS put out saying they were then visit vengeance back on the West and some of his allies as well.

I should point out, Australia, they are not on the higher end of the list of the countries afflicted by this. It's interesting to see that Australia was victim to this sort of thing. BLITZER: As all our viewers know, you spent a lot of time there, the

Iraq/Syria border, in Kaboni, a lot of time in Iraq, watching what's going on. How does ISIS, I guess, through social media, how do they encourage sympathizers to engage in an operation like the one that unfolded in Sydney?

PATON WALSH: Well, I hate to say it. The lone-wolf attack is an easy thing to inspire. They put out the message that those who wish to have affiliation with them should do this kind of attack. Outside of that, we're different from the ways where a decade ago, you might imagine bin Laden in a cave conducting a training camp in the hills. That's no longer the case. The information is perhaps passed through other means. This man may have only had one firearm. And it's about the use of a particularly high-profile area like where that cafe was. That helps generate the panic and terror, which is ISIS's mainstay.

But I should point out their initial goal when they try to establish their caliphate, it wasn't to attack the West but to create a territory for themselves. That has been a by-product and some might sate logic in extension of what they are about in the first place. We are seeing that as the focus as the way ISIS wants to get those to join their ranks.

BLITZER: As far as we know, ISIS has not formally responded. Have you heard anything about that?

PATON WALSH: No, to be honest, the nature of social media presence is it's hard to be clear which account is specifically ISIS speaking for themselves or whether it's those that support them voicing their support. We'll have to wait and see how that transpires. But it's the lone-wolf idea that you simply say to people who want to have allegiance, go ahead and commit this kind of attack. That's the major issue for the years ahead. Very hard to prevent or track -- Wolf?

BLITZER: So once again -- all right, Nick, thanks very much.

Once again, we're waiting for this news conference to start. Clearly, it's been delayed a bit in Sydney. We'll hear from law enforcement on how this happened. There you see live pictures from our affiliate. As soon as the news conference starts, you'll see it, hear it live right here on CNN.

We're also following other important news, including here in the United States. The 2016 U.S. presidential campaign season is starting. It's starting right now. We're going to take a closer look at this it man, Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor, the son of a former president, the brother of a former president. Guess what? He's very seriously thinking of running for president of the United States.

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BLITZER: The news conference is beginning in Sydney. Let's go there.

MIKE BAIRD, PREMIER, NEW SOUTH WALES: (INAUDIBLE) This morning, I come before you with the heaviest of hearts. We have lost some of our own in an attack we never thought we would see here in our city. In the past 24 hours, this city has been shaken by a tragedy that none of us could have ever imagined. The values we held dear yesterday we hold dear today, freedom, democracy, and harmony. These defined us yesterday, and will define us today, they will define us tomorrow.

Our first thoughts and prayers this morning are with the innocent victims of this horrendous, vicious attack. I want to say to their family and friends that everyone here stands beside you. They stand beside you today, they stand beside you tomorrow, they will stand beside you forever.

I want to pay tribute to the men and women of the News South Wales police who saved many, many lives over the past 24 hours and they have risked their lives in doing so. I also want to pay tribute to all the other emergency workers and authorities who provided assistance during these events.

My thoughts also remain with the hostages who have been freed. They will be provided every support they need in coming days and weeks and months. We are a peaceful, harmonious society, which is the envy of the world.

Today, while we grieve, we must go about our usual business. We must work. We must talk to our family. We must talk to our friends. But I say to everyone in News South Wales, today we must come together like never before. We are stronger together. We will get through this. We will get through this. While the events that we have seen have shaken us, but they do not dampen our resolve.

ANDREW SCIPIONE, POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW SOUTH WALES: Good morning.

Thank you, Premier.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to now confirm, and no mistake, we're now dealing with a critical incident. In police terms, that means there's a thorough investigation. We need to find out what's happened here and what's happened inside that cafe. It's not time to speculate. We're going to work through the facts and we will advise you as soon as we can.

At this time, we need to think about the hostages, those that are caught up in the ordeal. I can only imagine the terror that they have been through. They are very brave people who, in many cases, were just buying a cup of coffee and got caught up in this dreadful affair. We should reflect on their courage, the courage that they displayed during the many hours in that room. They had to make decisions, hard decisions, and our heart goes out to them. I'm sure you would agree.

We, too, share the grief of the families and the pain they have been through, not knowing what is happening to their loved ones and not being able to help them. It's been a distressing time for those families. I'm sure you would agree. To the people of Sydney, this was an isolated incident. It is an

isolated incident. Do not let this sort of incident bring about any loss of confidence about working or visiting in our city. It was the act of an individual. This should never destroy or change the way of our life. As the premier has indicated, this won't change our lives. This will not change the things that we hold dear in this country.

Right now, I ask for members of the community, we help friends and this is exactly what we should be doing at this time. It's not about finding reasons to divide communities, but finding ways to heal the wounds and help everyone grow stronger because we all want a stronger Australia.

I would like to commend the work of our police. While everyone may second guess what's occurred in the last hours, they are the ones who had to make the decision. Our police had to deal with the incident. It was tough work. Many hours on a point or part of a team that had to make that entry and deal with the situation. I want to point out they have saved lives. They have saved many lives. To those men and women, all that were involved, we thank you. As your commissioner, I thank you, but I'm sure Australia thanks you. Thank you that you're there and prepared to do this, to put your life on the line to keep us safe is a very, very honorable cause. For that, our gratitude goes out to you.

I can indicate to you that we have accounted for at this stage, 17 hostages. That includes the five escaped yesterday and a number that have traumatic injuries, some with medical conditions. We have, as you have reported, two deceased amongst the hostages and six that were uninjured. We also have a lone gunman, who has been shot and killed. And we have a police officer who has been injured as a result of a gunshot wound to the face. I have talked to that officer. He's in good condition. He's certainly been assessed and will be remaining in hospital for some time. Not too long, we hope, but he's well and grateful to be alive. Let me assure you.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is where I'll hand it over to you for questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: If I can ask, the injury, why was it made at that particular point?

SCIPIONE: Well, that's a decision was made by the teams responsible. These are the experts. What we don't do is compete with those that have to make that call. They made the call because they believe that at that time if they didn't enter, there would have been many more lives lost.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why is that? (INAUDIBLE)

SCIPIONE: The events that were unfolding inside the premises led them to the belief now was the time to deploy and they did.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was happening inside? SCIPIONE: At this stage, I understand that there were a number of gun

shots that were heard, which caused officers to move straight to what we call an EAP (ph), emergency action plan, and caused them to enter.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did the gunman fall asleep at any stage and the hostages that were in there to make that break and as a consequence --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIPIONE: I'm not in a position to confirm that. As I said, now is not the time to second guess or speculate. This is a critical incident. We have to go through the investigation. We need to get it right. We have talked to the coroner. The coroner has jurisdiction. We'll work with the coroner at this stage. There's much to be done.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was the gunman in battle? (INAUDIBLE)

SCIPIONE: At this stage, I'm not going to go into that right now. We're dealing with this critical incident. Our thoughts are turning our minds looking after these hostages and the families of those that have been caught up in this. And of course, we have two that have died as a result of actions inside of that cafe, and we need to make sure we comfort those families.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about the hostages and how are they being taken care of at this point?

SCIPIONE: Can you repeat that, please?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The hostages. How are they being taken care of?

SCIPIONE: Well, they're part of a hostage situation. We're dealing with those. They are part of this investigation. We need to talk to them. They are being looked after in terms of their psychological needs at the moment. We'll work with them. At this stage, they are being well cared for.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are they with family?

SCIPIONE: Family is certainly involved in this incident.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know whether the hostages were killed by the gunman or crossfire?

SCIPIONE: Again, as a result of an exchange of gunfire inside that premises, police moved in and, at this stage, as I've indicated, we have a number of people that are injured. And certainly, we're working through that as part of the critical incident.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He was obviously well-known to police. When was the last contact that police had? SCIPIONE: Again, that's part of what will come out once we get

through this. At this stage, we're not going to enter into that. Sorry, excuse me. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Premier, you were previously criticized from failing to act in the past. Are you concerned that allowed this to happen?

BAIRD: A lot of concerns. There was a vicious, horrendous attack that took place in the heart of our city. There are many questions that will come in coming hours, days and weeks. What I can assure you is I will answer every single one of them. We'll get to the bottom of events and we will do everything possible to make sure we don't see happen again in this city what we saw happen in the last 24 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

SCIPIONE: At this stage, what I can assure you is that particular premise has been secured and, at this stage, we have no explosive devices that have been found.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you at least describe the treatment the hostages felt in this stage? Were they treated well or is there any indication of that?

SCIPIONE: Well, at this stage, rather than go into that, until we were involved in the emergency action, we believe that no one had been injured. That changed. We changed it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How long has he been known to police?

SCIPIONE: Again, that's part of what will come out. We'll talk to you later today, and I'm sure we'll be able to give you more information.

But, again, we won't compromise this investigation. It's important that we get this right.

Of course, the other issue that we always need to be mindful of is rather than give you information for the sake of giving you information, we want to make sure that it's accurate. So when it's accurate and only when it's accurate we will release.

OK?

BAIRD: Thank you.

SCIPIONE: Thank you.

BLITZER: So there you heard the police commissioner of News South Wales, Andrew Scipione; and the premier of News South Wales, Mike Baird, give the information of what's going on. Two of the hostages confirmed dead, the hostage holder, the hostage taker himself killed in this operation. There were 17 hostages. The law enforcement authorities say 17 hostages. Five had earlier escaped. That left 12. Four of those hostages are now in the hospital. One law enforcement official also in the hospital. He was shot in the face according to the police commissioner, Andrew Scipione.

Tom Fuentes was listening to this. He's our CNN law enforcement analyst, the former assistant director of the FBI.

Over the years, in the FBI, Tom, I know you worked with closely with the Australians. It looks like some of the questions now will focus in, did the police do the right thing in going in, 16 hours in? Something triggered that movement that resulted in the end of the siege, but also resulted in, obviously, the deaths of two of the hostages and the hostage holder.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right, Wolf. Their procedures are very similar to what we use in the U.S. and what the FBI used. I was an on-scene commander in situations like this. What you have is the commander that's right at the scene is getting information directly from the hostage negotiators, the SWAT team leaders who are rehearsing an entry, other investigators, surveillance people. Every possible piece of information is coming to the commander. But when someone, and usually it's a negotiator, says this is going bad or shots are heard that the person inside, the hostage taker, has fired shots and the hostages are being killed, that commander gives the signal to go. And the teams have already been rehearsing for hours of how to come in the doors, what their fields of fire will be, what their techniques will to be minimize ricochet bullets and other harmful things that can always happen in a situation like this. But procedurally, that call is made right at the scene when the commander thinks somebody or some group of people are being killed.

BLITZER: And they will presumably investigate whether the two hostages who died tied were killed by a hostage holder who had a shotgun or inadvertently may have died in the exchange of gunfire that occurred when the police eventually assaulted that cafe, right?

FUENTES: That's true. The coroner's investigation, the autopsies, hopefully, will reveal, you know, what each person died of, and if it's from gunfire, what bullet caused the death, and what gun fired that bullet. Sometimes that's not always possible, if you have a ricocheted bullet that gets mangled and then hits bone and other hard material, it could get mangled beyond the point of being able to be examined ballistically. Under normal conditions, they should be able to differentiate between shotgun pellets versus the weaponry or assault rifles that were used by the SWAT team.

BLITZER: And so that's what we know. Two women were taken to the hospital, two of the hostages described as having nonlife threatening injuries. The male police officer in the hospital. Also nonlife threatening wound in his face from gunshot pellets. Another woman taken to the hospital with a gunshot wound to her shoulder. And another 35-year-old woman taken to the hospital as a precaution.

Tom, we'll stay on top of this story. Lots still to learn.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

In North America, our special coverage of the hostage-taking crisis in Australia continues with Brooke Baldwin right after a quick break.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.