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CNN NEWSROOM

Terrorist Seizes Hostages in Australia; Sydney Hostage-Taker Well Known to Police; Sony Warns Media Not to Publish Stolen E-Mails

Aired December 15, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin this hour with breaking news.

A gunman seizes hostages in Australia's most crowded city. And the gut-wrenching drama plays out on social media.

We're honoring the police requests and not showing videos that the hostages themselves have posted online.

This grainy image is the gunman seen inside the cafe where the standoff now enters its 15th hour. He is demanding a flag representing the terror group ISIS.

Early in the siege five captives somehow managed to escape. Witnesses peering through the window say the gunman became visibly upset raising new concerns for the hostages who remain behind.

This morning we have extensive coverage. Our correspondents and experts are following the latest developments from Australia, to Washington and beyond. But let's begin with CNN's Anna Coren. She's in Sydney this morning.

Good morning.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol. It's just gone 1:00 in the morning here in Sydney. As you say, this siege has now entering its 15th hour. This gunman armed walked into this cafe in the early hours of Monday and claimed a number of hostages. We know that five hostages have managed to escape but police refusing to confirm how many people are still inside that cafe.

Now just to give you an idea, it is located in that direction about a block away. And there are hundreds of police. There is a bomb squad and there are also sniper police in position. But for now let's recap on the day's events.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COREN (voice-over): Sydney under siege. An unidentified gunman holding at least a dozen hostages inside this Lindt chocolate cafe in Sydney, Australia. The gunman who reportedly calls himself the "Brother" has contacted three local news outlets making demands. One, an ISIS flag in exchange for one hostage. Two, a call to the prime minister. He claims that he's planted two bombs in the cafe and two others in the city.

The cafe, located in the center of the city's bustling business district, but now hundreds of police officers shutting down the crowded Martin Place.

ANDREW SCIPIONE, COMMISSIONER, NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE FORCE: Our only goal tonight and for as long as this takes is to get those people that are currently caught in that building out of their safely.

COREN: It was during morning rush hour, at 9:30 a.m., when a woman reportedly told police she saw a man carrying a suspicious bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He opened the bag out and revealed the gun to her to get rid of her. And she running down, she says gun, gun, gun. Gun in the blue bag.

COREN: The hostage crisis then unfolding around 9:45 a.m. when the gunman entered the cafe. Just moments later, hostages seen pressing their hands against the window, fear etched on their faces, forced to unfold a black flag bearing an Islamic phrase.

CHRIS REASON, SEVEN NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: We don't know whether this is politically motivated, although obviously there are some indications it could be.

COREN: Six agonizing hours later, three hostages escape. Two men darting out the door towards police. Seconds later, a third man, an apparent cafe employee wearing a brown apron, joins them. And over an hour later, two women escape. The panic on their faces telling it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we saw that rush of escapees we could see from up here at this vantage point the gunman got extremely agitated as he realized those five had got out. He started screaming orders at the -- at the people inside, the hostages that remain behind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COREN: Now, Carol, police are not allowing us to go closer to the cafe. Earlier we had a visual of it. The police moved us back because of security concerns. They were obviously worried that the gunman would start shooting. That there would be an explosion, that he had bombs inside the cafe. This is something that he was claiming.

But obviously this area, this CBD of Sydney is in lockdown whilst this hostage situation unfolds. As I say, it's now 1:00 in the morning here. Police saying that they are prepared to wait this out as long as this is resolved peacefully -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Anna, you -- you recently returned from Iraq. You were covering ISIS in Iraq. Now you're in your home country and you're covering this. It's got to be a tad strange for you.

COREN: Yes, without a doubt. This is something that you know Australians see on television and read about. Obviously we had troops committed to the war against ISIS. And, you know, hundreds working with the Iraqis and the Kurdish forces as well as Australian, you know, fighter jets taking place -- taking part, I should say, in the aggressive air campaign. But to see it on home soil, I mean, we don't know and we should stress that this gunman, he is armed and he does have a backpack.

We don't know if he is working with ISIS. We don't know if he's a lone wolf or perhaps this is merely a cover for something else. This is of course one of the theories being bandied about. But nonetheless, I mean, he has claimed, you know, some sort of affiliation with ISIS in wanting an ISIS flag. He's making it about the Islamic State.

But certainly, you know, Australian authorities have confirmed there are more than 100 Australian citizens fighting with ISIS in Iraq and Syria. So whilst it is a very disturbing and alarming to know that this is happening here on the home soil that there is this gunman claiming some sort of affiliation with ISIS,

It is also known that there is a small minority of Australians who have decided to align themselves with this terrorist organization.

COSTELLO: All right. Anna Coren, reporting live from Sydney, thanks so much.

Washington is keeping a close eye on the unfolding drama, too. President Obama has been briefed and U.S. law enforcement is offering help to our Australian allies.

Our justice reporter Evan Perez has more on that from Washington, D.C. Tell us more, Evan.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol. We know that U.S. law enforcement now knows the identity of this gunman. We're not revealing the name of the gunman just yet. We know that they're helping Australian authorities with gathering information on him including gathering any social media and Web site data that the U.S. may be able to have access to. Obviously this appears to be some kind of Islamist jihadist connection to this man.

It's not known whether or not he is actually a member of ISIS or just somebody who sympathizes with them. There's obviously some weird clues here. He shows up at this cafe, doesn't bring the right flag with him. So that's a little bit of a strange thing. We know that the authorities here also have concerns about copy cat incidents that could be brought on by this. They've been warning repeatedly in the last few months that as a result of the U.S. airstrikes against ISIS that there could be lone wolf attacks here in the United States -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Evan Perez reporting live from Washington. Thanks so much. Police in Sydney, as you heard Evan say, they apparently know the

identity of the gunman who is holding hostages inside that shop.

To get a clearer picture of the situation right now I'm joined by phone by Tobias Feakin, a national security expert with the Australian Strategic Police Institute.

Hello, Tobias.

TOBIAS FEAKIN, AUSTRALIAN STRATEGIC POLICE INSTITUTE: Hello there. Hello.

COSTELLO: From your perspective, what's happening right now?

FEAKIN: Well, we've actually got the most current news that the police have actually released the name of the individual involved. And it's a gentleman called Man Haron Monis, who's an Iranian cleric who is currently out on bail for violent sexual offenses in and around Australia. He was also actually was arrested in April when he was out on bail, being charged with being an accessory before and after the fact in the murder of his ex-wife. So this is why this individual is actually known to the police in and around Sydney.

They've dealt with him in the past. He's 49 years old and clearly has at very least a history of sexual assault which he's conducted within Sydney. So, you know, there are a few more pieces coming together now. Elements of information now being confirmed by the police here. One of which is that actually it's being mentioned, you know, that they've confirmed now that this individual, Man Haron Monis, has actually requested that an ISIS flag be delivered to him in the cafe.

Exactly what the motivations are for that are yet unclear, as, you know, what his intentions are in terms of this hostage taking situation. So, you know, there are a number of facts now coming out into the media.

COSTELLO: Well, Tobias -- Tobias, just to make clear, CNN is not naming the suspect at this time. And we have not independently confirmed that, but thank you so much for the information. So in your mind, is this man connected to ISIS? Is he using ISIS as an excuse?

FEAKIN: We simply don't know at this juncture. I mean, that's something that I couldn't speculate in terms of, you know, his association with ISIS or any other Islamist extremist group. You know, we do know that the flag that he put up in the window was wrongly identified as being commonly associated with ISIS. The black standard with the shahada is misused by a number of different extremist groupings including al Qaeda, al-Shabaab, and at times ISIS.

And so, you know, I think there is more confusion here. In terms of the man this is now being confirmed through the ABC here in Australia who have had authorization by the police to actually release that. And I understand that CNN haven't had that yet.

COSTELLO: So -- yes. FEAKIN: But, you know, it's still -- it doesn't create clarity in

terms of what this individual actually is requiring as part of this negotiation.

COSTELLO: Yes. His requests are strange. The other strange part about this, there were four videos posted on YouTube. One of the videos showed one of the hostages making the demands -- making demands for the hostage taker. It's kind of an unusual route, isn't it?

FEAKIN: Well, yes. I mean, it would appear so. I mean, something that certainly has happened is that the Australian New South Wales Police and various security agencies involved have had quite a control on the information that's been leaking out into the public despite the kind of social media age we live in. So they've been very controlling of that. And what's been happening here is that there have been various hostages who have had recorded messages as you rightly say releasing them to Australian news agencies.

But the police have requested that those aren't actually aired and they aren't actually viewed in order that they can keep a close operational control of what's actually going on. But certainly, you know, elements of that is seeping out. Now, you know, there was a linkage between that YouTube video, but that was rapidly taken down clearly in further attempt to control, you know, the requests that this individual is making, the demands that he is making as part of his actions. You know, they're trying to make sure that he's given as little oxygen as possible in terms of what his demands are.

COSTELLO: Those YouTube videos, by the way, are immediately yanked off the Internet. I just wanted to make that clear to our viewers.

FEAKIN: Yes.

COSTELLO: Going back to this suspect, police say they're just going to wait him out. What else are you hearing that you can tell us?

FEAKIN: Well, you know, one thing I know is exactly what they'll do. He is an individual acting alone. We know that. At first it was -- there was concern that there were a number of individuals. And if he's acting alone, he's going to be getting very, very tired now. This has been going on for more than 14 hours. There's a lot of stress and pressure involved in this on all sides.

He will be getting, you know, real kind of mental fatigue setting in which is, you know -- it makes it a more difficult situation to deal with in many respects because it makes him more unpredictable in terms of what he might actually do. And so police will be trying to keep him in a very constant dialogue and keeping the negotiation very, very calm and measured, not wanting any kind of irrational responses to begin encroaching in to that conversation.

You know, the key objective here is to get those hostages out of this situation as quickly as possible. But they are willing to take time to have as peaceful an outcome as possible. And now we're beginning to hear little bit more details around this. You know, (INAUDIBLE) a little bit more understanding of what's going on. But still we can't confirm exactly, you know, what linkages this individual might have to other outside groupings or what inspiration he may have taken from that.

COSTELLO: All right. Tobias Feakin from the national -- he's a national security expert with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for your insight. Very valuable. I appreciate it.

Still to come on the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point I was thinking something is definitely odd. Then a hung a sign on the door and told us all to leave. And then just as I was about to leave, the lady next to me screamed out, he has a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: A coffee shop employee showed up for work just as the hostage drama was unfolding. Hear what he says happened, next.

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COSTELLO: Returning now to the hostage standoff in Sydney. A young man named Nathan had just arrived for his shift at the Lindt Coffee Shop at the very moment this crisis was unfolding. A short time ago, he described what he saw. He asked us not to use his last name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOICE OF NATHAN, EMPLOYEE, LINDT CHOCOLATE CAFE: We have two entrances to the cafe. I tried to go through the main entrance, but it was locked, which was really weird because it shouldn't be locked. I went from the side and those customers in there were just normally going about their day, drinking coffee. You had the employees doing their work around the cash registers. Everything seemed fine.

So I walked around to the other entrance and there were customers waiting outside and that was also locked which, was also, again, very weird. So they asked me what was going on because I said that I worked there. And I said I'll try to find out what is going on.

One of my friends, coworkers, came to the door and said that we were closed for today. And that was really weird as well. At this point, I was thinking something is definitely up. Then a few moments later, they hung a "Closed" sign on the door and told us all to leave. And then, just as I was about to leave, the lady next to me screamed out -- he has a gun. I looked up and there's a corridor just near where the door was, and I could see a hand and what looked like half a gun. I ran after that and called the cops.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Did you see the gunman?

NATHAN: I didn't see him. I only saw part of his body and part of the gun himself. Everyone in the cafe seemed like everything was just fine. Even the employees, they all had smiles on their faces which was the question that I was asking myself, what's going on? Because if something like that was taking place, you would that they would look more alarmed or show signs of duress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's not exactly known how many people are being held hostage right now but Nathan estimates 20 workers and customers were inside the store when he arrived for his shift.

For some perspective, some more perspective, the hostage taker could be a mentally ill deranged man who is using ISIS as inspiration to create a crime. Or this could be an Islamist extremist. We don't exactly know right now although we think police are closer to knowing the answer to that question.

Let's talk about that with CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Hi. Good morning. Thanks for being here.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So how do you suppose police are talking to this man to get him just to give up?

KAYYEM: Well, they're talking to him in a way that essentially hopefully leads him to calmness, lulling him to physical exhaustion, and then they'll take advantage of that. Time is on their side. If it is only one gunman, which we assume it is at this stage, the physical exhaustion, the mental exhaustion he's encountering right now is going to create openings for law enforcement to step in.

So time is on their side. Keep him calm and focused on not reacting in a hostile way. The only goal right now is protecting those hostages. That's the only thing they care about on the ground right now. All of the who he is and who he's aligned with matter later.

COSTELLO: Right. It's looking more and more like this man had a long criminal history. Police know who he is. And I would suppose all of that makes it a little easier for them?

KAYYEM: Right. I think it is. And I think -- we have to -- we who look at this and analyze it --have to think about membership in organizations differently than we once did. So with al Qaeda or any other historical terrorist organization, membership was -- they trained, an exclusive group. They were in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Membership for ISIS is essentially do you have a computer? The bar to entry is so low. And that's what ISIS wants. So when we talk about memberships in ISIS, it's a very different notion. It's more -- are they listening to ISIS? Are they responding to what ISIS wants, which is essentially to lower the bar of entry and create havoc by focusing on soft targets?

We're no longer looking at Pentagons or embassies anymore; we're looking at a cafe during the holiday season. And that means that there's going to be more targets and there's going to be more assailants. But it also means that their impact is not like it was with 9/11 or embassy attacks, for example.

COSTELLO: All right, Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: We'll continue to follow the hostage situation in Australia. But we turn now to this. The people who hacked into Sony Pictures are threatening the communications giant again and threatening the future of the woman who heads Sony, Amy Pascal. The hackers have already revealed embarrassing e-mails she sent, some of them about big, big movie stars, among them Angelina Jolie, who Pascal called "a spoiled brat". And there were others. Pascal called Leonardo DiCaprio "despeciable".

That led Oprah Winfrey to offer a little perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, MEDIA MOGUL: I would hope we would not stand in judgment, in such harsh judgment, of a moment in time where somebody was hacked and their private conversations were put before the world. Because if we were to look at your computer, and everybody else's computer -- I try to write everything as though it's going to show up in "The New York Times", but there are things you say in your private conversations with your friends and colleagues that you would not want to be broadcast on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Well, Sony is issuing a threat of its own, warning media outlets including CNN against publishing those stolen e-mails.

So let's bring in Laurie Segall, CNN Money's tech correspondent. Really? Can Sony do anything to prevent news organizations from doing that?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this is a tough one. This is a tough situation. We haven't heard that much from Sony until, over the weekend, a lot of media outlets, CNN included, got this note from this prominent lawyer that says -- the information you are downloading, stories coming out, this is information that is stolen. Stop and destroy it.

So that's going to be a conversation, let's be honest, that every news organization will have. But not to be bearer of bad news, but it seems as these hackers are going to release even more data. A couple days ago they posted on a file sharing website this message. Let me read it to you, Carol.

"We're preparing for you a Christmas gift. And it will be more interesting. The gift will surely give you more pleasure and put Sony Pictures in a worst state." And then they go on to say that the gift will be large quantities of data. They actually asked people, they put a bunch of e-mails -- I was actually on the site before it got taken down -- and they actually put out a bunch of different e-mails and say "E-mail with your request for certain types of data." So, for Sony, it seems like it might get a little bit worse before it gets better.

COSTELLO: Seems like it's going to get a lot worse.

SEGALL: Yes, you're right.

COSTELLO: Do we have evidence that North Korea was behind this attack?

SEGALL: We've spoken to quite a few security researchers and a lot of them had said this hack has a lot of similarities to a hack that happened in South Korea last year on South Korean banks. So they're linking the two, but we just don't know at this point, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Laurie segall. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a glimpse of the gunman who has taken hostages in Sydney, Australia. Now Americans join the race to get a clearer picture of who he is and what he wants. We'll talk about that next.

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