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NEW DAY

CIA Chief Defends Agency Following Report; Monster Storm Slams West Coast; Oil Prices Fall Below $60; Supermodel Accuses Cosby of Drugging Her; Hollywood Secrets Revealed in Sony Hacks

Aired December 12, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to have you back. It's 6:31 on this Friday, well, 6:31 in the East.

So, here's a look at your headlines.

The CIA chief says he is committed now to making reforms, to insure more oversight on interrogations in the wake of that damning Senate report on the agency's tactics. In a rare news conference, John Brennan admitted some of the post-9/11 tactics were harsh and abhorrent and he couldn't say if they produced key intelligence. He does say aspects of the program were effective.

The West Coast, boy, they're reeling from deadly hurricane-like conditions that have flooded roads, knocked out power to hundreds of thousands of customers from California, all the way north to Canada. Falling trees killed two people in Oregon Thursday, one of those victims, a teenaged boy who was in a car when the tree came down. The other was a man who was hit by a tree as he slept in a tent.

So much rain has fallen in California. This one storm may erase three years of drought in that state.

The man caught on video jumping the White House fence in September has been found competent to stand trial. A judge ordered a mental evaluation for 42-year-old veteran Omar Gonzales during his arraignment in October. Gonzales has pleaded not guilty to the top charge, along with other counts including two charges of assaulting an officer.

OK. This is awesome. A 219-year-old time capsule has been unearthed at the Massachusetts state house by workers repairing a water leak. They come in handy for one thing.

The contents are going to be revealed next week. But museum officials want to conduct some x-rays. The box was buried back in 1795 by then- Governor Sam Adams, we know his beer, and Paul Revere. It was unearthed previously in 1855 but very carefully reburied with more items of the time placed inside it. Officials haven't decided if they're going to add new mementos before they put it back in, or just carefully reinsert it back in the ground.

What a find. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So cool.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Quick, Mick, what would you put in the capsule?

PEREIRA: The price of gas. Segue to --

CUOMO: Wow.

CAMEROTA: Well-played.

CUOMO: Quality segue.

Oil prices are hitting five-year lows, hence the genius from Michaela. So, let's bring in chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

This is a hooray for consumers with a question mark at the end of it.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's a hooray for consumers, a big hooray for consumers. Look, you have oil prices hitting below $60 a barrel overnight. That is the lowest since 2009, guys, and that is a very big deal.

It's a big deal for us because it's going to put about $100 extra a month in our pockets. American customers, it's like a tax cut. It's like a stimulus, $100 billion extra next year.

CUOMO: But?

ROMANS: But it's going to maybe mean job cuts in the energy sector. These energy companies are getting slammed by the lower oil prices.

CUOMO: Stocks?

ROMANS: Stocks have already been nailed.

Some of the smaller energy players are down 50 percent, their stock prices from the summer. That's what's dragging on the Dow Jones Industrial Average. You've got the futures, if you look at the stock futures right now, the Dow is down about 128 points.

So, you're going to see the stock market unsettled by what's happening in the oil market. It's good for consumers, it's good for the economy, it's not good for the energy patch and it's hurting the stock market right now. So, that's kind of a double-edged sword here.

CAMEROTA: If it's not good for employment, it's also not good for the economy.

ROMANS: Well, you know, energy has been such an important driver in the American recovery. I will say, though, the expectations are that energy prices remain low all through next year. No one's saying this is the bottom. That could be good for U.S. economic growth overall because factories, people are spending less money on gas, that's a good thing.

CUOMO: Is it true that the Saudis are tanking the price of oil to strangle the American and perhaps Russian production markets?

ROMANS: The Saudis and OPEC are not rushing out to trim their output, which they sometimes do when oil prices fall and that props them up. They're not showing any expectation. Some people are saying it's like a game of chicken. They want to push out the American oil producers, maybe choke off some of the investment they're having in the U.S. to drill for shale oil and for gas in places we haven't been able to get it.

I will say I -- when I look at the gas prices I'm reminded of the last presidential election when so many of the Republican candidates said vote for me and I will be able to give you lower gas prices. Well, if this were a Mitt Romney presidency, it would be the Romney economic miracle. But for some reason the White House doesn't seem to get any kind of tailwind from job creation, a stock market that's doubled and this pretty low gas prices, it's kind of an interesting commentary.

CUOMO: Because of it or is it despite of it?

ROMANS: I don't know. I think the messaging from the White House is not to take credit for some of the things happening in the economy. And so, they don't get any credit for it.

CAMEROTA: And they get blamed for the high gas prices.

ROMANS: That's right.

So, the bottom line is the economy right now pretty good for consumers, pretty good for consumers and no sign that there's a bottom being put into oil market right now. But it's interesting about the Saudi/U.S. placement here, you know, the oil producers are hurting, but they're not stepping in to cut production.

CAMEROTA: Christine, thanks so much.

CUOMO: Can you read this? I'm going to sneeze.

CAMEROTA: All right. Another Bill Cosby accuser steps forward. This one is supermodel Beverly Johnson. Her story is unlike the rest. Is this the tipping point in the allegations against him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Shocking new allegations against Bill Cosby. This time coming from a famous model and trailblazer.

In the 1970s, Beverly Johnson was the first black model on the front of the American "Vogue" and the French edition of "Elle" magazine. She wrote a piece in "Vanity Fair", and she said Bill Cosby invited her to audition for a part in the Bill Cosby show in the 1980s. She says she visited his home where she says he drugged her. When she started to fight back, he dragged her out of the house into a taxi.

And her story -- is her story, I should say, the tipping point as we approach two dozen women who have now made allegations against Bill Cosby? We're joined by Larry Hackett. He is the former managing editor of

"People" magazine.

Larry, nice to see you.

LARRY HACKETT, FORMER MANAGING EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Nice to see you.

CAMEROTA: Is this story coming from Beverly Johnson someone who is so famous, different?

HACKETT: Well, it's interesting. Some of the story is very, very similar. The come to the home, audition for, you can audition for me, I'll be a mentor and the drugging, very similar.

But this is someone that people know. So, I think there are many, many people who thought when they first read the allegations, even when it was a dozen people or two dozen people. These are women trying to extort him. These are old stories. I'm not sure if I can believe it.

This is completely different. You come to this with the idea of why would Beverly Johnson make this up?

CAMEROTA: One of the things that's also different is that she said she was not actually sexually assaulted because after she was drugged, she stayed lucid somehow enough to fight back.

Here's what she writes in her essay, let me read it for you. "As I felt my body go completely limp, my brain switched into automatic survival mode. That meant making sure Cosby understood that I knew exactly what was happening at that very moment." She is quoting yourself, "'You are a mother blanker, aren't you?' I recall his seething anger at my tirade and him grabbing me by my left arm and yanking all 110 pounds of me down the stairs as my heels clicked and clacked down the stairs, I felt my neck was going to break with the force he was using, pulling me down those stairs."

This is an even more aggressive version of Bill Cosby.

HACKETT: It really is. I mean, the detail is incredible and it's actually terrifying about what she claims happened to her. It's just awful.

CAMEROTA: I mean, what all the other accusers that we've interviewed have a very eerily similar account, which is that they were drugged, they say, and it worked.

HACKETT: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: And so, they woke in some state of disarray, their clothes off, not knowing what had happened, but knowing something terrible had happened.

Somehow she had the presence of mind, to stay conscious, even though she says she was heavily drugged and to recount this. HACKETT: You know, one of the interesting things, that comes out is

that every woman says, she says this in her essay, is that once I saw other people come out, I couldn't stay silent any longer. Those were women who were -- again, no judgment on their stories, who were anonymous. This is not.

So, what will this lead to? Will there be more people who come out now? It would be very interesting to see what happens.

CAMEROTA: But once again, no police involvement. I mean, this is one of the unsatisfying things, he's never prosecuted for all the things they say he's done, because they don't come forward and tell anybody. However, in her essay she explains what she did do, she tried to call him, she tried to confront him.

Here's what she says, she called him one day at and his wife picked up. Then, she says, "I didn't call back the next day or any other day after that. At a certain moment, it became clear that I would be fighting a losing battle with a powerful man so callous that he not only drugged me, but he also gave me the number of the bedroom he shared with his wife. How could I fight someone that boldly arrogant and out of touch?"

That's her rationale for why she didn't ever go forward with any charges.

HACKETT: Exactly and it was 30 years ago and the world has changed. And we're going to have to see how things go on.

She also makes a point that one of the reasons she didn't come forward as well recently was because of what she saw of the plight of the black male and the idea that another black male does not need to be pulled down by the system. She came to the recognition, though, that this has nothing to do with Michael Brown or Eric Garner. In fact, she argues it was the system that supported Bill Cosby, because his fame was such that it allowed him to be inoculated from these accusations.

So, it's very interesting take on race relations vis-a-vis this case.

CAMEROTA: And it is complicated for black women. We heard this from Jewel Allison, another of the accusers, that how -- they didn't want to tear down this legend, this iconic man who had broken so many boundaries and glass ceilings. But ultimately today, something has changed.

HACKETT: Can you imagine what it was like, watching the show in the mid '80s as his character and show became huger and huger, representing what it did and having these stories and having this hit his own personal history? It must have just absolutely harrowing.

CAMEROTA: The common thread through all of this is that he drugged the accusers.

HACKETT: That's right. CAMEROTA: That probably means that somebody else had to be involved in helping him have access to Quaaludes. Or one person said they thought it was a Tuinal, a Seconal. These are heavy-duty pharmaceuticals that he is alleged to have been giving people.

HACKETT: Beverly Johnson essentially said she could taste it. She knew what it was on the second sip of what was going on.

That could very well be. This also spent in almost a period of time, if your first accusations are in the mid to late '60s, going now to mid '80s, actually going up to 2005, one imagines that the medication changed over the years as things got more sensitive. So, yes, you would think other people would know.

CAMEROTA: But, Larry, what does happen now? What happens? What is the end of the story?

HACKETT: That's a great question. This is not a television show. This is not "Law and Order". This will not end with a verdict and TV cameras and trucks waiting in front of a courthouse. It doesn't seem it's going to be that way.

These are old accusations. The statute of limitations has worn off. I think what's going to happen is a slow and perhaps not so slow fundamental change in what Americans think of Bill Cosby. I think that process is going on now.

He's elected not to speak. He has a pretty savvy idea of the media in so far as whether it's the CIA scandals or Ferguson or New York, something else will fill the gap if there's no accusations.

But if people still keep coming forward, it's going to be an exorable change in what America thinks of Bill Cosby.

CAMEROTA: Larry Hackett, thanks so much. Great to see you.

HACKETT: You bet.

CAMEROTA: We reached out to Bill Cosby's lawyers, of course, for a statement, we have not heard back from them today.

In the 8:00 hour, we will speak live to Beverly Johnson herself about her disturbing account of what happened with Bill Cosby.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn.

We are hearing what one corner of Hollywood really thinks about President Obama. A top Sony executive now apologizing after racist emails were leaked. So, what does she have to say for herself? We'll tell you, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Two Hollywood executives are apologizing after insensitive comments were exposed by a massive hack of Sony emails. Amy Pascal, the co-chair of Sony Pictures, and producer Scott Rudin made racially- tinted comments about President Obama, comments about some of their stars.

The incident is making apparent what many of us have seen first-hand -- a threat of hacks is growing. So, are other corporate executives sweating it out and are your communications -- are they safe?

Here to weigh in, CNN commentator and legal analyst Mel Robbins, and Dawn Chmielewski, she is senior editor of "Re/code", a tech news Web site.

What a duo we have.

Dawn, I'm going to start with some of the nuts and bolts with you, if you don't mind.

DAWN CHMIELEWSKI, SENIOR EDITOR, RE/CODE Right.

PEREIRA: This is pretty intense, not the just the emails, they're salacious and we'll talk about that in a second. Employee information, including Social Security numbers, medical records of some of their personnel.

How worried do we need to be that our own communications could be hacked?

CHMIELEWSKI: I think this is a cautionary tale for anyone who use as computer and the internet. As you said, thousands of employees, personal information has been distributed far and wide on social networks. Some of the former Sony employees have told us that they're already becoming victims of identity theft.

PEREIRA: Wow.

CHMIELEWSKI: So, it really is a frightening scenario. In fact I have one friend whose daughter's Social Security has been sold somewhere on the Internet. It's really -- the toll of this is truly breathtaking.

PEREIRA: You've been doing a lot of investigative work. Do we know any more about who was behind it? The perpetrators? First, it was thought it was perhaps retribution for the movie "The Interview" and it was North Korea involved somehow? What more are you learning?

CHMIELEWSKI: Well, Sony is working with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and with some security firms to try to determine who might be the culprit here.

Sony obviously is being very closed about that process. So, it's hard to know if there are any closer to coming to closure on this and to identifying the culprit.

There had been a number of scenarios explored. North Korea is notably dismayed by this film "The Interview", in which Kim Jong-Un dies in a rather colorful way. So, you know, so that is one possibility.

Others have investigated the possibility of an internal connection. We just don't know yet.

PEREIRA: All right. Mel, let's talk about this. In particular, I think a lot of the attention is going towards this conversation of emails flying back and forth between some of the executives and, in fact, I want to pull up their apologies now.

Let me read producer Scott Rudin's apology essentially. He says, "This is not about salacious emails, it's about a criminal act and the people behind it. It should be treated as nothing more, nor less than criminals."

Now interestingly, the other executive, the co-chairman of Sony, Amy Pascal, she acts a little different in her, we'll talk about that in a second, her statement. "I'm not a victim here. I'm going to be fine. It's really hard on our employees. The Social Security numbers are on display, it's important not to forget that a crime was committed and that this is a whole new way of the world."

Mel, talk to me about the legal aspect of this, because are we underestimating how significant of a mess this is going to be for Sony?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR & LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Michaela, good morning, it's an excellent question and, Dawn, good morning to you, too.

Dawn used a word that I found to be really apropos, breathtaking.

The number of lawsuits and potential liabilities in a case like this could be breathtaking. I mean, we are in very new territory in terms of the jurisprudence.

Let's just kind of break this down. Forget about the emails and the salacious nature of that. Sony has a legal obligation to protect corporate information, particularly medical records, and Social Security numbers of employees. So, they might be liable if they did not use reasonable care from actions of these kinds of breaches.

If they're using enterprise-level software, Michaela, to store information and there was some sort of breakdown in the firewalls or the security services that they outsourced, those companies might potentially be liable.

And they're also correct -- we keep talking about the fact that things were leaked. In this particular incident, not only were Social Security numbers and all kinds of emails, but unreleased movies that Sony was made and not released, have been posted around. That is theft. They are stealing corporate property.

And it bothers me that we keep talking about this in the vein of leaks, when actually this is a crime, Michaela.

PEREIRA: On the flip side, I'll bite where you left off right there and we've only got about a minute.

Dawn, if you don't mind, I'm curious, your reaction, Amy Pascal gave quite an lengthy interview to Deadline.com. Are you priced that she made herself so accessible in the light of all of these embarrassing set of circumstances that have risen from these emails.

CHMIELEWSKI: Well, you know, Sony has not been toughing it up. They have not been speaking about the steady downpour of disclosures that the hackers have made available to anyone with a computer and Internet access. But it speaks to sort of the gravity of the situation, after days of news organizations reporting rather salacious details of her private exchanges, with producers, and with others around Hollywood.

This speaks to the gravity of the situation that she felt she had to come out and say -- look, this could have happened to anyone. She said in ten seconds can you say something stupid. So, I, you know, mea culpa, I accept responsibility. It's horrible, I apologize, let's move on.

PEREIRA: Mel quick, bottom?

ROBBINS: Yes, I tweeted out a Harvard Business Review study. Women in 16 categories are more effective leaders than men at the CEO level. The reason why is because they are perceived to have higher levels of integrity. They lead with empathy.

And what you saw in her apology is a classic example of the difference between how men and women typically lead. She immediately took action, she was concerned and showed empathy for the way this impacted her employees, and she communicated with integrity. Those are all hallmarks of the way women lead, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Mel, Dawn, very different tone in both of their responses. Thanks so much for joining me. Great conversation, ladies.

We are following a whole lot of news this morning, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: This agency did a lot of things right to keep this country strong and secure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information from detainees was useful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's coercion that can be used in interrogation and there's the moral issue of whether you should be doing it or not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the bill doesn't pass, then we get another government shutdown.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This is not about partisanship. This is about fairness.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Listen, if we don't get finished today, we're going to be here until Christmas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of the worst weather to hit northern California in years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trees coming down on Highway 17.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just hear loud noises, crashing, it's just real scary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm Alisyn Camerota, alongside Chris Cuomo.

The CIA director gave his answers, but they're only raising more questions about the agency's use of harsh interrogation tactics and whether they worked. Some say John Brennan tried to have it both ways -- defending the CIA, while admitting major flaws in the system and they were all outlined in that scathing Senate report.

CUOMO: So, needless to say this has done nothing to quiet the calls for Brennan to resign, despite his promises to improve the agency. However, one of his predecessors is defending the CIA with a controversial explanation of some of the tactics.

We're going to get perspective from the president's former spokesman in a moment.

But let's begin with senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta.

Jim, what do we know?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

That's right, former -- or I should say the current CIA Director John Brennan, he conceded the agency made mistakes in using the harsh interrogation techniques. But he also defended those methods, saying in some cases, it's possible that they provided useful intelligence. A view the president does not share.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): The only thing more rare than a news conference held inside the CIA was the admission from the agency's director, John Brennan, that terror detainees swept up after 9/11 were abused.

BRENNAN: In a limited number of cases, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be repudiated by all.

ACOSTA: But Brennan would not call it torture.

BRENNAN: I will leave to others how they might want to label those activities.

ACOSTA: Brennan's explanation -- the CIA was not ready after 9/11.

BRENNAN: The program was uncharted territory for the CIA and we were not prepared. ACOSTA: And he maintained the agency's enhanced interrogation

techniques or EITs, produced intelligence. Even though he conceded it was unknowable if the same results were obtainable without harsh methods.

BRENNAN: It is our considered view that the detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information that was useful and was used in the ultimate operation to go against bin Laden.

ACOSTA: That's in sharp contrast to the torture report from Democratic Senate intelligence committee chair, Dianne Feinstein. She responded to Brennan in a tweet that critical intelligence that led to bin Laden was unrelated to EITs.