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CNN NEWSROOM

Dorian Johnson FBI Interview Withheld; UVA Rape Victim Hires Lawyer; Title IX Investigation; Dow Falls; Obama Appears on "Colbert Report", Talks Race in Other Interviews; Sony Hackers Issue New Warning

Aired December 9, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Let me bring in HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson. He joins me with more.

I mean, this is the question. Why is the FBI lengthy interview with Dorian Johnson not released?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, great question, but here's what the local authorities say, Poppy. What they say is, look, they're in the midst of a federal investigation. You know that federal investigation deals with separate issues, right?

HARLOW: Civil rights.

JACKSON: Absolutely, whether he should be indicted -- that is Darren Wilson -- for various offenses relating to the murder, second-degree, manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter.

The civil rights investigation, as we know, focuses on the officer's intent. Did he intend to deprive him of civil rights? And often times, in the midst of an investigation, the FBI will say, look, these are FBI documents, they relate to FBI interviews, we're in the midst of the investigation, we don't want to impair it in any way, so withhold the documents (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: So will we get them ever?

JACKSON: You know, I certainly think we will and we do. And the question then becomes, Poppy, what light does it shine upon the issue? And, unfortunately, the more documents that are released -- because while we didn't get that interview --

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: We got several other interviews.

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: And the autopsy report. And you know what, it continues --

HARLOW: Which was consistent with the others.

JACKSON: It was. But, you know, and even when we talk about it being consistent, it still raises questions, right? Because if you look at the autopsy report itself, it will tell you cause of death, right?

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: But it will not necessarily tell you why he died. In other words, what were the actions leading up to that. So a lot of confusion still.

HARLOW: I think one of the very important things about, though, the FBI/Dorian Johnson interview, is that interview was conducted very close to the time of the shooting and the death. Much closer than when Dorian Johnson testified in front of the grand jury. And one of the things that we've heard, as you know, Joey, is that there's been confusion among some in this case and they say one of the hardest parts is the fact that some of the witnesses' testimony changed.

JACKSON: Absolutely. And that's a problem. And there are two real layers to this, Poppy. The one layer is this, you have conflicting witnesses that are witnesses who say different things. And we know by now, 16 of the 29 witnesses say hands up, that he had his hands up. And not only do you have conflicting witnesses, but you have witnesses who, in themselves are conflicting because they've given different statements. And so certainly, to your point, it's nice to know what he said close in time --

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: But at the end of the day, remember, in a grand jury proceeding, you're under oath to tell the truth and you're confronted with your prior statements and have to explain them nonetheless.

HARLOW: Sure. So we'll see if we do get all of the documents. But we've certainly gotten many more in this -- in this release.

JACKSON: Everything in time. Let the federal government investigation proceed.

HARLOW: Yes.

JACKSON: Let's see how that goes. And then ultimately I think it will be fully transparent and we'll get to examine everything.

HARLOW: Which, by the way, is very rare. We rarely get to know what happens in grand jury proceedings.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

HARLOW: So having this much light in this case is not common.

Thank you, Joey.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Case in point, Eric Garner, what's happening in Staten Island.

HARLOW: New York. We're never -- we're not going to know.

JACKSON: They're trying to petition for that. We don't know what happened.

HARLOW: Thank you. Good to be with you, Joey. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: A pleasure. Always. Thank you.

HARLOW: Still to come here in the NEWSROOM, "Rolling Stone" has issued not one but now two apologies for inconsistencies in its reporting of the alleged UVA gang rape. CNN spoke to a friend of the young woman at the center of that story. We'll tell you what she said, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Two events we're keeping a close eye on for you this morning. First, the stock market. The Dow has been driving towards that 18,000 milestone. The brakes, though, already being applied this morning. The markets down heavily right now. Traders blame plummeting oil prices and a warning from the Fed on what we're seeing right now. We're going to take you live to the New York Stock Exchange in just a moment. The Dow down 176 points at this hour.

We're also expecting a grilling on Capitol Hill this morning as Jonathan Gruber testifies before the House Government and Oversight Committee. Jonathan Gruber may not be a household name, but he is the economist and Obamacare consultant who spoke about the, quote, "stupidity" of the American voters and Republicans believe his comments could help in their ongoing efforts to repeal Obamacare. We will monitor the hearing and, of course, bring you any updates.

Well, the alleged victim in the UVA sexual assault scandal has hired a lawyer. This as "Rolling Stone" issues a second apology for its botched report on the alleged gang rape of a young woman known as Jackie. The magazine says it doesn't blame Jackie and takes full responsibility for reporting inconsistencies in its story, but one of Jackie's friends tells CNN that her story has remained consistent the whole time.

Sara Ganim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNIE FORREST, JACKIE'S FRIEND: Everything Jackie told me over a year ago, that's exactly what was published and exactly what Jackie did tell me.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Annie Forrest is one of the first people Jackie spoke to about the alleged gang rape inside a University of Virginia fraternity house. A horrifying story with graphic details that became the focus of "Rolling Stone's" explosive story. Forrest told us she spoke to Jackie Sunday night.

FORREST: We just kind of talked about how she's feeling right now and how absolutely overwhelmed she is, how she really didn't see any of this coming.

GANIM: Since "Rolling Stone" issued an apology to readers Friday, there's been nonstop speculation about whether the incident happened as Jackie recalled, or if it happened at all. But before "Rolling Stone" even published the story, another one of Jackie's friends tells CNN, Jackie was concerned.

GANIM (on camera): Was she apprehensive about the article?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was terrified. I remember her just -- she was absolutely terrified of the repercussions.

GANIM (voice-over): Repercussions started against the fraternity, the house getting vandalized. Now some of that backlash has shifted to Jackie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While there do appear to be holes in her story, no survivor I've ever spoken to tells a straight, linear account of their story for years -- until years and years after therapy.

GANIM (on camera): In the article, Jackie says that she was brought here by a fraternity brother for a party at the Phi Kappa Psi house. Well, once she got inside, she says he took her upstairs to a dark room where she was attacked and raped by seven men while two others looked on.

One of the major discrepancies is that "Rolling Stone" says Jackie escaped down a side staircase and out a side door. The attorney for Phi Kappa Psi tells us there's no side staircase inside the house, but there are side doors and this one has an exterior side staircase.

GANIM (voice-over): Phi Kappa Psi's attorney also tells CNN, records show there was no party the night the gang rape allegedly occurred and the attorney says the man who Jackie says lured her to the room was never even a member of the fraternity.

"Rolling Stone" revised its apology over the weekend to say it takes responsibility for any inaccuracies in the story, and the blame does not lie with Jackie.

GANIM (on camera): On Monday, the university announced it's establishing a committee to study cultural issues here at the University of Virginia, including sexual assaults and binge drinking.

Sara Ganim, CNN, Charlottesville, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Our thanks to Sara for that report.

Consider this number, as of August 13th, 76 U.S. universities were under investigation for Title IX sexual violence violations. Campus sexual assault has long garnered the attention of federal lawmakers. Next hour, a Senate subcommittee is set to hold a hearing on law enforcement's role in that fight.

Let me, though, first bring in our next guest. Congresswoman Jackie Speier joins us now. She has introduced a House bill that she thinks is going to help solve this problem.

Thank you for being with me.

REP. JACKIE SPEIER (D), CALIFORNIA: My pleasure.

HARLOW: Tell me about HALT (ph), that's what it's called, and what it is designed to do if you can get this passed?

SPEIER: So the HALT legislation will require climate surveys at every university and college in this country that receives Title IX funds. It also will require more training. It will require that there be proper notification to students as to what their rights are, and where they can get help. Many of these co-eds don't even know there's a Title IX coordinator at their college campus. And in many of the colleges, there aren't Title IX coordinators. So --

HARLOW: I know that --

SPEIER: Go ahead.

HARLOW: Go ahead. My apologies.

SPEIER: So it's really an effort to shed some more light on the issue and really require these colleges to evaluate the culture under which these students are trying to go to school.

HARLOW: I know that you also want to have it mandatory that if a student transfers from one college to another and has an offense on their record, that the school and the state is notified of that. But a lot of people are up in arms over the fact that many colleges handle these cases of rape themselves, and there is no -- there's nothing that mandates that they go to the police. How can that be, and should that change on a federal level?

SPEIER: I actually think that we've got to do two things. One is, if it's a crime, if it's confirmed to be a crime, I believe that it should be reported to law enforcement. Typically the universities rely on their code of conduct in terms of whether or not a student should be expelled. And in these cases, only about 30 percent of the students are expelled for the behavior that violates this code of conduct.

HARLOW: Well, we also know that UVA has admitted that not once has it expelled a student, not once for sexual assault, and we know the statistics that one in five women on college campuses is sexually assaulted in this country. You know, some are critical of these proposed efforts to fight sexual assaults on campus in the way that we're talking about them, saying, look, you're not addressing education and prevention. Do you believe that these are sort of after the fact measures and we need to do more on the front end?

SPEIER: We certainly need to be more on the front end. But typically most universities require this as an online program that they have to watch before orientation. We do know that most of these sexual assaults occur in the first eight weeks of a college experience. So doing it as part of the early education is very important, and to talk about what the repercussions are. In California now, there is a law that requires a verbal affirmation if you are going to engage in sexual conduct. HARLOW: Yes, well I'm glad you guys are talking about it and doing

something to try to help on Capitol Hill. Thank you, congresswoman, appreciate your time this morning.

SPEIER: Thank you for the invitation.

HARLOW: All right, I want to take you now live to the New York Stock Exchange. Steep decline in the market right now. Dow down 160 points at last check.

Alison, what's going on?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are seeing, Poppy, the Dow do a 180 from 18,000, which just a couple of days ago we were on 18,000 watch for the Dow. Once again, the Dow falling 158 points.

This is actually day two of a sell-off for the Dow. We saw it close 100 points lower yesterday. A big factor here, oil. We are seeing oil prices plunge again today, about another half a percent. This is after oil prices fell 4 percent yesterday, its third biggest drop of the year. Keep in mind, oil prices have fallen 40 percent over the past six months. So while we're reaping the rewards of that, consumers, I mean, with lower gas prices, this is really wreaking havoc on energy companies which rely on higher oil prices for bigger profits. So that's why you're seeing companies take a hit as we see oil prices fall. And, once again, we are seeing the Dow take a big hit, about 160 points lower today.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, I know people also worry, what's the Fed going to do? Are they going to raise rates sooner than we all thought? We'll be watching that closely and get back to you soon. Alison, thanks so much.

KOSIK: Sure.

HARLOW: We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Some light-hearted moments from President Obama last night. He dished out a few jokes about Obamacare and then he took over the anchor chair on "The Colbert Report".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Stephen, you've been taking a lot of shots at my job. I decided I'm going to go ahead and take a shot at yours.

(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Nation, nation, instead of The Word, let's make this a little more presidential. Which brings us to tonight's Decree. To health in a handbasket. Nation, as you know, I, Stephen Colbert, have never cared for our

president. The guy is so arrogant, I'll bet he talks about himself in the third person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Pretty good job there. After those comedic moments, the president did sit down for a little more traditional interview with Stephen Colbert. And then later today, he will talk immigration reform in two interviews set to air on Spanish language networks, Univision and Telemundo.

Today's interviews to Hispanic audiences follow one that the president gave to Black Entertainment Television on Monday and talked a lot about the recent police killing black men and children in America. From coast to coast, demonstrators have staged marches and die-ins to bring attention to this issue. This was the scene in Pennsylvania last night as more than 100 students from three colleges gathered in protest. In Berkeley, California, we've been watching that very closely, protesters temporarily shut down both -- Interstate 80 in both directions. And then on the court, NBA stars like LeBron James and Kevin Garnett donned "I can't breathe" shirts in protest over the death of Eric Garner by a New York City police officer.

President Obama did talk about that in his interview with BET. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I think people who saw the Eric Garner video are troubled, even if they hadn't had that same experience themselves, even if they're not African-American or Latino. I think there are a lot of good, well-meaning people -- I think there probably are a lot of police officers who might have looked at that and said that is a tragedy, what happened, and we've got to figure out how to bring an end to these kinds of tragedies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk about all of this with CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill; he's also the host of Huffington Post Live and professor at Morehouse College.

So Marc, the president in the past has been criticized by some for shying away from the topic of race, not talking about it enough. And now, in the case of Trayvon Martin, he talked about it. He talked about -- in this interview, with BET -- saying, when I met with the protesters, it reminded me of being 16 or 17 years old. Do you think he's striking a balance now?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's turned a corner now at least over the past few weeks and I've been very encouraged by it. When the president began his journey in the public view back in 2007, when he gave that speech -- or even early 2008 -- when he gave that speech in Philadelphia after the Jeremiah Wright controversy, I called it the Philadelphia Compromise speech, because he didn't talk about race in a way, to me, that was sufficiently complex and that accounted for power, the way in which black and white people may have different opinions and different perspectives, but one is rooted in power and one is not.

He didn't seem to acknowledge that. There were moments after Trayvon Martin where he said we need to just respect the jury's verdict. He didn't speak to the need for protest. Even, initially, in Ferguson in August, it seemed to me that, at some point, he was understating the importance and the righteousness of black rage.

But this time he spoke to the deeply entrenched nature of racism in America. He spoke to the need for protest. And he basically said that Eric Garner video was a problem, which is something that he rarely does. He rarely takes sides on issues, at least not since the Henry Lewis Gates controversy. So this seems to be a different President Obama and, honestly, I'm a bit encouraged. It just needs to translate into policy now.

HARLOW: So let me ask you this, Marc. If this were a white president, would we be expecting the same of that president? And if not, is it fair to expect a different standard from our current president who is black?

HILL: I'll see your question and raise your two questions. It shouldn't just be -- would we expect it, it's should we expect it? I think to some extent we'd given up on presidents speaking to the issue of race so, to some extent, maybe we should not. But should we? Absolutely. Barack Obama is not the president of black people; he's the president of America. But the news that many people seem to forget is that black people are Americans. We are citizens and we are entitled to the same protections as other groups, whether it's LGBT groups, whether it's Jewish brothers and sisters, whether it's disabled brothers and sisters, whether it's the elderly. We all attention; we all deserve policy responses to our issues in this nation. And I want the president to do that not because he's black but because he's the president.

HARLOW: Let's talk about these protests, Marc. You've participated in some of them. We've all been watching them from Berkeley, California, to here in the streets of New York City. How long do you think this is going to last? And you mentioned policy. Is this going to change things?

HILL: Well, I think that's the key here. I want these marches and these protests to continue until there is a concrete set of demands that are brought squarely to people in power. The genius of the 1960s protests and civil unrests is that they were translated into concrete policy demands, whether it's public accommodations in '64, whether it's voting rights in '65, there was a goal to get a policy response to black misery and to really the entire nation's misery because we all suffer when that happens.

I want happen now. And what you're seeing with the organizers, particularly the young ones, is that they're not just shutting down highways, they're not just marching, they're not just dying in, they're asking for citizen review boards. They're asking for community control of police. They're asking for cop watch programs. They're asking for federal funding in ways that will oversee the police and for the government to divest from programs that militarize public space and law enforcement agencies.

So those kind of concrete responses are what we need to see. I don't think these marches are going to die down in a day or a w week or even a month. I think is going to be even stronger than Occupy. I think this is going to continue, because black misery is continuing.

HARLOW: Also I want your take on this. Let's show images. We've seen professional athletes, big names including LeBron James last night, taking to the court wearing an "I can't breathe" T-shirt. When you see that, what goes through your mind?

HILL: Incredible amounts of pride. Sometimes we overstate the value of cultural gestures, of symbolic gestures. Symbolic gestures must be met with concrete action, with political organizing; we can't just rely on cultural politics. But still, we have to admire LeBron James, we have to admire Derrick Rose, who did it first. We have to admire Jared Jet (sic). We have to admire everyone who went out there and wore those T-shirts because they have a high price to pay for doing that. They -- when you take a political stand in public, with those types of bosses and those types of leaders, you have a risk and they took the risk and I'm proud of them.

LeBron James may never be as good as Michael Jordan as a basketball player, I'll leave that to basketball experts, but he's become a greater political athlete and a greater spokesman yesterday than Michael Jordan could ever be.

HARLOW: Interesting point. We're going to hear next hour what the commissioner of the NBA had to say about all of it. Marc Lamont Hill, thanks for being with me.

We'll be back in just a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, first they attacked and now the same group of hackers are issuing a warning to Sony Pictures. The group claiming to be called the Guardians of Peace, or GOP, says Sony should, quote, "stop immediately showing the movie of terrorism, which can break the regional peace and cause the war." It guess on to say, quote, "you, Sony, and FBI, cannot find us. We are perfect as much."

The movie they are talking about is presumed to be the new comedy, "The Interview." It stars Seth Rogen and James Franco and it's about a plot to kill North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would love it if you could take him out.

JAMES FRANCO, ACTOR: Huh?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take him out. SETH ROGEN, ACTOR: For coffee?

FRANCO: Dinner.

ROGEN: For kimchee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, take him out.

ROGEN: You want us to kill the leader of North Korea?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

FRANCO: What?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, let's bring in CNN Money tech correspondent Laurie Segall, who joins me now. Laurie, a lot of people want to know who is this group?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: Right? And we don't -- the short answer is we don't 100 percent know. But security researchers have concluded they believe North Korea is linked to this.

HARLOW: The government?

SEGALL: Now if -- we don't know specifically if this is the North Korean government, but people are speculating that a lot of the hack and with this picture popped up on Sony employees on their computer, it looked very similar in some of the wording and misspellings to what happened about a year ago with South Korean banks and a hack that was believed and linked to the North Korean government. So we don't know specifically right now. We do know that this kind of hack is unprecedented. It would have been very difficult for Sony to protect themselves.

HARLOW: Well, also Sony is saying threats were sent to some Sony employees. Of course, this group says we had nothing to do with that threat, but this is very, very serious. This goes on just being difficult -- goes beyond just being difficult for business.

I'm wondering how bad it is and if you think we can expect more and actually the broad implications on business.

SEGALL: It is very bad. When you look at it, and you look at movie scripts being leaked, entire films being leaked, internal memos, movie stars' aliases to where, when they check into a place, they use a certain alias. This is their safety, their Social Security numbers. It just keeps going and going.

And I actually spoke to one security researcher. He's formerly with the NSA and he helps big companies during these times. And what he said to me is it might not have been worth it for them to put out this film, which I thought was shocking, because of the implications of censorship. I want to play you that sound. Listen -- his name is David Aitel, formerly from the NSA. Listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AITEL, SECURITY RESEARCHER, IMMUNITY INC.: If you self-censor, in a way, you've already lost. And also you don't necessarily know who it is you're self-censoring for. There's no -- there's no permanent decision of what your risk actually is. People get offended at all sorts of things; nation-states get offended at all sorts of things. It's not like they followed a protocol and failed. I think they thought they were doing the right thing. It's a comedy, they're going to release it; it's not big a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEGALL: But what he really kind of goes on to say is that the money they have lost, and the implications, you got to bet that other studios are looking at this and thinking and the idea of hacking for censorship -- this is -- we're entering new territory here.

HARLOW: You're right; we absolutely are. Laurie Segall, thanks for staying on top of it. Good to have you on the program.

All right, the next hour of NEWSROOM starts right now.

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