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CNN NEWSROOM

Cleveland Police Report on Officer Who Shot Tamir Rice; Better Policing; President Obama Set to Announce Defense Secretary Nominee; Impact Battle Against ISIS Has Taken on Kobani

Aired December 5, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The Cleveland Police Department under fire, being slammed as, quote, "chaotic and dangerous" in a scathing new report by the Justice Department. It's part of a 21-month investigation. U.S. attorneys found the department policing not only, quote, "compromises officer safety but also frequently deprives individuals of their constitutional rights." One of the most startling offenses, a massive high-speed chase that ended with the deadly shooting of two unarmed civilians. Police began the chase when they thought they heard shots, but it turned out it was just a car backfiring.

The report also detailed officers pistol-whipping suspects, beating a handcuffed minor in the back of a squad car. And, keep in mind, these instances were before the case of Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old who was shot to death while holding a pellet gun just weeks ago. Kyung Lah has more for you.

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KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The surveillance video shows a boy walking near a playground. He's 12-year-old Tamir Rice and he's playing with a toy, an airsoft gun that, from a distance, can look like a real gun. A bystander calls 911.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a guy in here with a pistol. You know, it's probably fake, but he's like pointing it at everybody.

LAH: Less than two seconds after police drive up, the 12-year-old, again carrying a toy, is shot and killed at close range. The 26-year- old police officer who shot him, Timothy Loehmann, had only recently been hired by the Cleveland Police. At his previous job, at the Independence Police Department, Officer Loehmann's personnel records show he was in the process of being fired. His supervisor describing an emotional meltdown and behavior that shows a pattern of a lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions. But the Cleveland Police never asked to see Loehmann's personnel records. A policy the department says has now changed.

Tamir Rice's death, the backdrop, as the Department of Justice laid out a stinging report on the Cleveland Police Department. VANITA GUPTA, ACTING ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL, CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION: The investigation concluded that there is a reasonable cause to believe that the Cleveland Police engaged in a pattern and practice of unreasonable force in violation of the Fourth Amendment.

LAH: The investigation took two years, finding Cleveland Police officers use unnecessary and unreasonable force at a significant rate, including offices who shoot at people, who do not pose an imminent threat of serious bodily harm to officers, that they hit people in the head with their guns, where use of deadly force is not justified, and that there are systemic deficiencies, failures by higher-ups to investigate officer involved shootings.

STEVE DETTELBACH, U.S. ATTORNEY, OHIO: We found, frankly, that sometimes a rubber stamp mentality or approach exists to these kinds of incidents of excessive force. And when accountability falters, trust also falters.

LAH: A federal court will now keep tabs on the Cleveland Police as part of a legal agreement. While the announcement was set in Cleveland, the attorney general says, as seen in Ferguson and in New York, the problem is not contained by city limits.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The tragic losses of these and far too many other Americans have really raised urgent, national questions. And they have sparked an important conversation about the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities that they serve and protect.

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COSTELLO: That was Kyung Lah reporting. But let's talk more about this. I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and Danny Cevallos.

Welcome to both of you.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, Paul, I'll throw this question to you, will any police officer be punished for this?

CALLAN: Well, it's possible. But, remember, they're investigating not individual police officers, they're looking at the big picture. And I think that this is a good example of how there are checks and balances built into the system. The Department of Justice has a number of these investigations going on. If they think there's a pattern of police brutality and civil rights violations, they investigate and they can punish. They can set down an injunction. They can fine. They can do a number of things to insure that the Cleveland Police interact with their citizenry the way they are supposed to. COSTELLO: It just - Danny, it just boggles the mind that these things actually happened and that they've been going on for such a long time. This is the second investigation by the justice department on the Cleveland Police force.

CEVALLOS: One of the things that jumped out at me in the DOJ's report was the internal affairs standard when they were investigating officers. They applied a beyond a reasonable doubt to find that someone had engaged in misconduct, which the DOJ said in its letter is an unreasonably high standard. It's reserved for criminal prosecutions. And, not surprisingly, when you apply such a high standard, just a smattering of officers were found to have committed misconduct out of about 15,000. Just a very few amount were considered to have committed any actual misconduct because, when you apply that standard, you're not going to find a lot of people liable.

COSTELLO: Interesting. I want to talk about the case of this 12-year- old who was shot. You know, he had the toy gun and he was in the park. Officer Timothy Loehmann is the officer, the Cleveland officer, that shot him. We know now that this officer had disturbing things in his record, Paul, like he was weepy when he handled a firearm and that's what his boss found in a previous job, yet the Cleveland Police hired him anyway. How likely is it, in light of all that's happened, and all we know now about grand juries, that even this officer will be indicted?

CALLAN: Well, you know, I'm - I've looked at this videotape in this tragic case several times and you kind of look at it from two perspectives. The first is, we know he's a child, OK. And the dispatcher, who got the call, knew he was a kid and it might be a fake gun. But the dispatcher doesn't tell the cops. So when they come out on the scene, they're thinking, it's a short guy. And then all of a sudden the gun comes out and you know it looks like a real gun. So even though it was a disabled gun - I'm not even sure, in the end, what kind of a gun it was, but it certainly looked real. So it's not a clear-cut case against the cops here. So don't - I'm not thinking there's going to be an indictment in this case based on the facts as I see them because a jury might say, you know, from the cop's standpoint, it looked like a real threat.

COSTELLO: So, Danny, do you agree, should we - be prepared once again because people in Cleveland are angry over this incident?

CEVALLOS: Federal courts in this jurisdiction, in the Ohio area, have said, like many others, that the mere possession of a gun alone does not warrant the use of deadly force. You need additional facts. So what's really critical is going to be whatever fertive (ph) movements the officers say they observe before the shooting, which admittedly was only a couple seconds. But Paul's absolutely right in that, let's not forget, this is a - whether it's a toy gun, an air gun, whatever you want to call it, when you look at it, it looks like a firearm. And the courts have said they will look at the information that was available to the officers at the moment they made a decision, not using the benefit and the convenience of hindsight, as we all can do now. CALLAN: But I think you've got to - these cases, they're all different. And they've got to be evaluated on a one-by-one basis. And what - like the Eric Garner case is very different from this case and it's different from the Brown case and you've got to look at the fact pattern in each case and some of them, the cops deserve to be indicted. In other cases you can say, well, it was a mistake, it's a horrible tragedy, but they don't. And you've just got to evaluate each case individually.

COSTELLO: Yes, we'll see what happens.

CALLAN: OK.

COSTELLO: Paul Callan and Danny Cevallos, many thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, you're looking at live pictures out of Boston. The Homeland Security secretary, Jeh Johnson, about to speak. He's going to talk about national protests over Ferguson and Eric Garner's death. Mr. Johnson's going to address community policing and police engagement.

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COSTELLO: The head of Homeland Security is in Boston today to meet with police officials and community leaders. Jeh Johnson's focus will be on creating more good will between police and minorities, especially in light of recent killings by police of unarmed African- Americans, which, as you well know, have caused a strong public backlash. Evan Perez, our justice correspondent, joins us from Washington with more.

Good morning.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

You know, Jeh Johnson and Eric Holder both have a really, really tall order, a really tough job ahead of them because, on one hand, you know, they lead agencies with, you know, hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers and, at the same time, they are also trying to reach out to the communities that they serve to try to assure them that cops are going to do what they're supposed to do. They're going to - supposed to be protect and serve.

And so what you have right now is, you know, I think Jeh Johnson is about to speak, he has been doing these meetings around the country. Initially some of these meetings were focused on building relationships between police and Muslim communities for national security reasons to try to counteract radicalization and foreign fighter problems. And what you're seeing now is everybody's pivoting because of all these protests around the country, Carol, and all these problems with these police shootings and there having to send a message that, look, not only are you trying to build relationships with the Muslim community, but also you have to build relationships with the minority communities, the other minority communities, that police are serving. COSTELLO: So will he offer concrete suggestions?

PEREZ: You know, there's not a lot people can do other than express - than, you know, push for more training for police. Look, the New York Police Department, one of the best trained police departments around the country, is having these issues in the Eric Garner case, as has shown. So, you know, there's police departments around the country that have even less training than the New York Police Department does. You know, New York City cops go through nine months of training before they even get their badge. So that's the issue is that there's really a lack of training in some of these police departments. For example, Ferguson, which, you know, has really been exposed by these problems, Carol. And that's really the only fix-up they can offer.

COSTELLO: All right. When Secretary Johnson takes the mic, of course, we'll bring you back to Boston.

Evan Perez, many thanks. I appreciate it.

I'll be right back.

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JEH JOHNSON, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We have in the Department of Homeland Security programs for outreach to community organizations to talk to them about ways in which in the community, along with state and local law enforcement, we can collectively counter violent extremism. So, we have these engagements around the country. I personally have participated in a number of them in Chicago, in Columbus, in Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and I'll be meeting with some community leaders later today in the Boston area. And we have a wide ranging conversation about a number of things.

When I visit, for example, an Islamic community center, or a Somali- American community group like I did recently in Minneapolis, there are a number of issues that they want to talk about with us, in my department. Profiling at airports, for example, or enforcement administration of the immigration laws. And so we have wide ranging conversations about a number of things to build trust between community organizations and state and local federal law enforcement to do a better job of collectively protecting the homeland.

As the homeland security threat evolves, collaboration with community organizations, with state and local law enforcement is becoming more and more important. This is not a job for the federal government alone. So, that is the reason that I am here today in Boston, and I will continue to do a number of these around the country. We regard this as very, very important. I have time to take a couple of questions. Oh, the other thing I'd like to add is to compliment the U.S. attorney here in Boston, Carmen Ortiz, for her own leadership in this regard. She has been quite active working with the community for the same purpose, and so the meeting I just had with law enforcement here in this building was with the U.S. attorney, senior leadership of the FBI, officials in my department, the police commissioner, police chiefs in the area, to talk about this issue. I wanted to compliment the U.S. attorney in particular for her leadership.

(INAUDIBLE)

JOHNSON: Well, the Department of Homeland Security per se does not engage in criminal investigations or law enforcement here in the interior except through our components. For example, homeland security investigations.

COSTELLO: All right, we're going to jump away. You heard Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson talking about better cooperation between all police agencies, federal, local and state. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

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COSTELLO: The battle for control of the Syrian city of Kobani has dragged on for months now, with Kurdish forces aided by U.S.-led air strikes holding off ISIS

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COSTELLO (voice-over): Looking at the widespread destruction, you might think Kobani is a ghost town, but that's far from the truth. There are people still living here and they are in desperate straits. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh and his crew got an inside look Kobani.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kobani feels haunted by those who are still alive in it. Inhumane enough, but the noise of coalition warplanes above is a strange comfort. The destruction, so near complete. The fight is more now for victory alone, not for its spoils. Here, they've even given up on hospitals. This, the last one, flattened by a car bomb. The wounded now taken strait to the border.

WALSH (on camera): From the ground level inside the city, you can see what months of fighting has done. Absolute devastation, it's almost impossible to imagine the city sustaining life any time in the near future. But still the fighting persists, the shelling almost constant. So much of it caused by crude homemade devices like this.

WALSH (voice-over): There are civilians here, those who refuse or cannot flee, and children besieged who can not be protected from indiscriminate constant shelling. Jusuf (ph) can list their friends who have left. But they show us their only option, what they do when the blast starts. Their uncle taught them to hide like this. This couldn't be further from play time, though.

There are the remnants of lives enjoyed, but also of lives taken early. WALSH (on camera): Ali (ph) watches the spot where, a week earlier,

his young daughter was killed by a random mortar, the sort that is still falling.

WALSH (voice-over): Three to four mortars fell near us, he says. The first we escaped from, the second we escaped from, then the third fell on us. My daughter was seven years old, seven years old and she died. God bless and help us. He brought his six daughters and the 150 sheep they live off here after ISIS attacked their nearby village. He could not leave the flock or the family car and flee to safety in Turkey. She was seven years old, he says. She was so beautiful, small, and people who saw her felt the need to lift her up and down and play.

He went to her grave the day before and sat there for 30 minutes. It is the graveyard that tells you about the near future and the more distant one. A trench dug for the dead they expect next to those they have already buried. Headstones from ruble. Again, a morbid playground. Too young to fathom the fight around them that will decide what kind of life survival here could leave them with. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kobani.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO (on camera): President Obama expected at any time to announce his pick for a new defense secretary. A ceremony getting under way at the White House, but one man will not be there, and that would be the new defense secretary's predecessor. I shouldn't call him the new defense secretary yet, because Congress still must approve him. But let's go to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon to find out more about why Chuck Hagel is skipping the ceremony.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Carol, some last-minute drama here at the Pentagon. They have just announced that Defense Secretary Hagel will skip the ceremony announcing his predecessor, Ashton Carter. President Obama of course expected to announce that within minutes at the White House. I have to tell you, Hagel was expected to attend, all reporters were given information late last night that he would be there. Now, the word is he will skip it. The official word is that Hagel wants the day to all be about Ash Carter, celebrating him, his nomination, his family.

But, look, there is no way around it. This is a last-minute change in plans. Secretary Hagel of several days ago essentially pushed out of the job by the White House. A lot of controversy about why he was leaving on both sides, that he was pushed, did he jump, did Hagel find the job just to be too much for him, why did he want to move on, why did he not want to keep the job? But the real question now, once we get past this drama of the two men not appearing together, what will Ash Carter do? What will he do different than Chuck Hagel did? What does this mean for the war on ISIS, and what does Ash Carter's tenure mean for all of the troops and military families facing future deployments? Will President Obama really want new ideas and more change at the Pentagon? But right now, the Pentagon doing what it does best some days of the week. A bit of political drama, the two men will not appear together, and they most definitely were scheduled to do so. Carol?

COSTELLO: Like a soap opera. Okay, Barbara, stand by because I'm going to take you live to the White House right now.

(voice-over): These are live pictures. There they are. Where President Obama will soon announce that Ashton Carter is his pick to replace Chuck Hagel as secretary of defense. Carter, who served as deputy secretary for both Hagel and Leon Panetta, was the chief weapons buyer for the Defense Department. And while he has no first hand military experience, he does have extensive background at the Pentagon. If confirmed, he would be President Obama's fourth defense secretary in six years. Of course we will bring you that announcement when it happens.

(on camera): First, let's get to our other big story this morning. We're going to talk about - - Okay, we're going to go to the White House now.