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CNN TONIGHT

Protests Spread Over NYPD Chokehold Death; Eric Garner's Daughter Speaks Out

Aired December 4, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: On the move for a second night in a row. Even greater numbers. They're outraged over the chokehold death of Eric Garner in New York City and the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo.

And the outrage is spreading in other cities all across this country, of course, including here in New York City, in Chicago, and we'll take you to all of them this evening.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

As more and more people take to the streets, America is facing tough questions about law and order, about black and white, and about our police and how we want them to do their jobs.

We want to get into all of that tonight with our legal and our police experts. So much to get to. But first I want to get right out to the middle of the streets now.

CNN's Chris Cuomo in those protests -- Chris.

Chris, what do you have for us?

And you're looking at a shot of New York City now. Chris Cuomo is out there.

Chris, can you hear me?

All right. As Chris gets ready there, we'll continue on here and talk about the protests, again, spreading all across the country. We are looking now at New York City. There are also protests as we said in Chicago. And these are more organized than last night. And more people are showing up to these protests.

We are going to speak with the daughter of -- of Eric Garner.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: All right, anyway.

LEMON: A short while here on CNN. But meanwhile, why don't we go to our Brooke Baldwin. Brooke Baldwin is also in New York City out in the crowd. And there she is.

Brooke, when last we saw you, you were going back across the Brooklyn Bridge. Where are you right now? BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: This has been -- I don't even

know quite how to put the last couple of hours into words. You're exactly right. So for the last -- gosh, since 6:00 Eastern Time. We, and I say we, hundreds of people have been walking from the heart of downtown Manhattan, so right around where city hall, federal courthouse, if you are familiar with the city, this massive group, crossed across the Brooklyn Bridge, not on the pedestrian walkway, Don, but on the Brooklyn bound multilane part of the bridge.

Police shut it down. We since walked into the heart of Brooklyn, downtown Brooklyn. In the middle you can see the Barkley Center. Everyone stopped. And it was something I have never seen. Having covered this since all of these most recent stories have reverberated. Everyone, hundreds of people in the middle of the street stopped and paused and laid on the ground. With their cardboard coffins, mothers who've lost children.

No matter how you feel on this issue, it was -- it was breathtaking. I spoke with one of the mothers. We're heading, by the way, back into Manhattan. We're heading over the Manhattan Bridge. Excuse me. But however you feel, I talked to a mother who lost her son 2 1/2 years ago. And she agreed that they're wonderful members of law enforcement in this country but she is frustrated as many of these people are, that some of these members of law enforcement appear to be indiscriminately killing young people. Her perspective. Not everyone's. Just one.

We're going to head back over the Manhattan Bridge. Back into Manhattan. Back to you, Don.

LEMON: All right. Brooke, stand by. We'll get back to you.

And as you can imagine this is a -- these are traveling protests. Sometimes a bit difficult to get our correspondents as they're on the move.

Want to go now to Chris Cuomo again who is out in the protest for us this evening.

Chris, where are you?

CUOMO: Hey, Don. We're on the West Side Highway. We're turning off right now at 12th Street. This is very different than last night in numbers, also in intensity. But numbers alone. I mean, you have at least, 10 percent -- 10 times than what you had last night. Thousands and thousands of people. And it's a very diverse crowd. You've got young people. You have lifetime New Yorkers here.

You have African-Americans. You have people of all different colors. You have a lot of white people. You have a lot of white kids expressing a lot of anger and hostility towards whites. And we asked them about that. They said you don't have to be a minority to feel the injustice that happens with minorities.

And what's been happening here tonight. I wouldn't call it cat-and- mouse. This is well orchestrated. They use an echo effect. They use social media but also they will say a couple of words and then that gets repeated by circles. Moving out so that the whole crowd gets what the direction is. And they have effectively first rated police efforts to keep them off the main arteries. Partly because of how many their numbers are and partly because of their tactics.

The tone is very different than what we saw in Ferguson, Don. These people are very focused on the message, on being heard. I have seen no vandalism. There have been arrests. There was just a showdown right before you came to me, Don, where the cops couldn't get them out of the lane of traffic. And it was interesting. They started putting some of the flexi cuffs on people but then they took them off. They did not arrest the people there.

I think a couple they probably took into custody. But just as many I saw them released. And I think the police are being mindful of not doing anything to de-stabilize the situation.

LEMON: All right. Chris Cuomo, we'll get back to you. We'll get back to our Brooke Baldwin as well. Our Deb Feyerick also out there. A number of our correspondents out in the field tonight.

You know, and as protests spread, it's important to remember that this is not just about politics or policy. A man is dead here. His family is in mourning.

Joining me now is Eric Garner's daughter, Erica.

Thanks for joining us. How are you doing?

ERICA GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S DAUGHTER: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: What do you think when you see thousands of people out, protesting what happened to your dad?

GARNER: Oh, my god, it's like, yes. Yes. You're doing it in a peaceful way. You're doing it in a united way. That's how we wanted it. That's how we said it from the beginning. We just want tight be peaceful. We want you to express yourselves. Just be peaceful. And come together. And -- but tens of thousands in different areas all over Manhattan, New York, it's just --

LEMON: How do you manage to -- to pull yourself together like this and be so strong in the midst of this tragedy?

GARNER: How do I pull myself together? I mean, some days it's like -- I don't know how I keep it together. But I have a 5-year-old. And she looks up to me. I have little brothers. I have a little sister. You know. And I guess I have to be the leader. I have to show them, you know, by me being strong, you can be strong, too.

LEMON: How is -- how is mom? How is his widow?

GARNER: I mean, she is what can be expected. I mean, you know, she expressed that. She was hurt. She expressed that she was, like, upset. But, you know, how is she doing? She tries to keep her days, you know, full of laughter and around family, because family is what keeps us strong.

LEMON: So -- you know, I asked you before, because I don't want to be disrespectful. And I have seen you on television, you know, earlier, and I see the video of your dad, running. And I asked you if it's OK to play that video. And you said it's -- you're used to it now.

GARNER: Yes. Pretty much.

LEMON: Why?

GARNER: Because I just wanted to see what happened, what happened, who did it, who did what, who was standing where, and what conclusion I got --

LEMON: You said you've watched it over and over again.

GARNER: Yes, I watched it over and over again. I mean --

LEMON: To the point you talked to the --

GARNER: I was talking to the TV. I was, like, get off him, stop, don't touch him no more. Why are you touching him for? Like, really just, adlibbing like what people should have said or his co-workers should have said. All right, all right, buddy, that's enough, get up. You're overdoing it now. You know? But it didn't happen.

LEMON: What did -- what do you make of the grand jury's decision, obviously, sure you are not happy when you found out that your initial reaction. What are your thoughts after that?

GARNER: What was my thoughts? It was like I expected it but it was also a disappointment because, being that we got the video and my father died in the video. And then you have these -- I guess politics or, you know, certain people out there that wants to promote body camera. OK. My dad died on national TV on the camera. He still ain't get justice. So what's justice going to do with these body cameras? But promote more killing.

LEMON: You heard our Chris Cuomo and Brooke Baldwin out there, they were saying that -- they were talking about diversity in the crowd. It wasn't just black people. It wasn't just white people.

GARNER: Sorry.

LEMON: Go ahead.

GARNER: Because this is not a black and white issue. This is a national crisis. Like I believe that this is a crisis. I mean, for white people -- to come out and show how deeply they was hurt, and like Asians and, you know, different people from different nations and different parts of the world to come out and show that they felt the same way I felt on that video, I greatly appreciate it. It's like a sense of I'm not the only one that feels this way.

LEMON: You said this is not a black and white issue. But do you -- in that do you say -- you're saying this is not an issue of race. You think it's a racial issue?

GARNER: I really doubt it. It was about the officers' pride. It was about my father being 6'4", 350 pounds, and he wanted to be, you know, the top cop that brings this big man down because he is just big. I mean, my father wasn't even doing anything. I mean, you know, he wasn't really doing nothing. He didn't have no gun. He didn't run. He smacked him. Nothing.

LEMON: A lot of people will be surprised because you know this is being made out to be a racial issue.

GARNER: I'm not.

LEMON: And you're saying, you don't think it's about race.

GARNER: Being that my father was black and the officer was white, I mean, that's different races but as far as the situation, I can't really say. It's like really a black and white issue. It is about, you know, the police officers. And abusing their power.

LEMON: You were named after your dad?

GARNER: Yes.

LEMON: Yes.

GARNER: Well, all my brothers and sisters. Eric, Emmarie (ph), Emil and -- and Eric, and then there is me.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You sound like me when I go home. I can't remember my nieces' names.

GARNER: Yes. But, you know, we are all E's, named after my father.

LEMON: What would your father want the world to know about him? And what do you say to the world who is watching this? You're -- you know, you are the daughter. You're saying it's not about race. And -- but what do you want the world to know about your father? What do you think he'd want the world to know?

GARNER: He'd just want them to know that he died in a horrible way. Horrible way. And for that person, in order to give the video out to the world, I think he would be very proud at the way these protests are going without being violent, without being, you know, burning stuff down, looting and all that. There is better ways to handle the problems.

LEMON: Can you forgive the officer?

GARNER: Can I forgive him? Eventually I can bring myself to forgive him. Eventually I can bring myself to forgiveness. But I will not forget what he did to my father. I'm sorry. I will not forget no matter. No matter how many sorries he say. No matter how many card you send. How many tweets he sends out. Nothing is going to bring my father back. So, you know, you either do the right thing, admit that she was wrong. And do your time. And the rest of the officers, as well. Do your time. Why like --

LEMON: Go ahead. This is your time. Say what you want?

GARNER: This is my time?

LEMON: Yes. Or you don't have to say anything.

GARNER: Well, I just want him to do the right thing. I want the other officers to just come forward. Admit that they was wrong. That they made a big mistake in their job. He was a professional. And you know, I hope other officers in the world, you know, look at this. And don't think, hey, we are going to get off free, yay, no. I think like this is a very serious thing. When you do stuff to kill people for no reason, there is going to be consequences.

There has to be consequences because when you're a child and you get in trouble, there is consequences for the things that you don't do. You don't listen to your mother. You get consequences. You don't listen in school, you get consequences. You know, it's just --

LEMON: And adults should face consequences as well.

GARNER: As well.

LEMON: Thank you, Erica. Thank you, you are very strong.

GARNER: Thank you.

LEMON: And our thoughts, tell your family we are thinking about them.

GARNER: OK.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

We got much more to come on our breaking news here tonight on CNN. As you can the protesters are happening on the streets of New York City tonight, on other streets, Chicago, around the country, over the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

CNN's reporters are out in the crowds. We're going to get the very latest from them, of course.

Plus, former New York City mayor, Rudolph Giuliani, blasts the current mayor calling his response to the crisis racist.

And I want to know what Anne Coulter thinks. She is here tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight here on CNN. More and more protests on the streets of New York City, cities across this country, over the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

Of course you're looking live now, that is Times Square, New York City.

We want to get to Chicago now. CNN's Kyung Lah.

Kyung, I saw you earlier on CNN, you were on Lake Shore Drive. I understand that you are maybe making your way or already at Michigan Avenue now?

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michigan Avenue. If you are familiar with Michigan Avenue, that's Saks Fifth Avenue, heading up the area called the Miracle Mile. Basically what they have done is they moved off of Lake Shore Drive on to another major thoroughfare. It's a bit different in the perspective of Chicago because there are other roadways you can take.

So the police are being a bit more forgiving as they walk all the way up Michigan Avenue. You can hear --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you protect?

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Who do you serve?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you protect?

LAH: A familiar chant, Don. It's a very similar chant that you're hearing here in Chicago. It's been overwhelmingly peaceful. There have been a couple of scuffles here and there. We witnessed one just a short time ago. But I haven't seen any one being arrested. I haven't seen anyone throwing anything at the police. And the police have been -- you can see the officer here, riding his bicycle, trying to keep the crowd moving. So we're walking very, very quickly. And this has been going on since 5:00, local, 6:00 Eastern Time.

I am getting drowned out a little bit.

LEMON: All right.

LAH: The chant that we've heard lately from the protesters.

LEMON: All right. Kyung, thank you very much.

Kyung Lah out of the Mag Mile, along Michigan Avenue in Chicago.

I want to get now to Athena Jones. Athena Jones joins us from Washington where protests have been going on there as well.

Athena, what are you seeing where you are?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. Well, we're right outside a Wal-Mart. You can see here protesters are heading inside. One of the chants we've heard all night is we shut stuff down, they're not saying stuff of course. We just left Union Station, it's a major train station here in downtown Washington. They walked through Union Station shouting no justice, no peace. Now they're here entering the Wal-Mart.

Last hour we were discussing whether they were going to try to shut down Highway 395, that's a major interstate in D.C., just as they did last night. And sure enough, the protesters, about 200 of them or 300 have gathered on the Freeway 395. And stood there, protesting for about 10 minutes, walking across.

But so far, it's been largely peaceful. There haven't been any run- ins with police that we've seen. There have been several instances where the protesters have blocked traffic, laid down in the middle of the road, in front of police cars, or other vehicles to do a sort of die-in to represent the deaths of those who have been killed by police.

But I will tell you this. I've heard from a lot of folks out here that they feel that they are making a difference. That this is what it's going to take to make a difference when it comes to racial profiling, when it comes to police brutality. And one of the signs that I have seen out here repeatedly says, "We will not skip this generation." And so this is part of the theme. They really feel like they are making a difference.

Let's take a look here at what's going on.

LEMON: Yes. We can see -- stand by, Athena. Let's listen.

JONES: Well, there are some protesters inside.

LEMON: Let's listen, Athena.

JONES: They're trying to keep the rest of them from going inside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't lock them in there.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Code violation.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't lock them in there. Let them out now. Let everybody out.

LEMON: Athena, what's going on? Can you ask them what's going on?

JONES: So it looks as though -- so what's going on here? How many folks are inside?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a lot of people inside.

JONES: And you guys are trying to follow them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He locked them in there.

JONES: So they're -- you did hear that they're concerned that the people who are inside are not being allowed out of the store.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So they locked the doors.

JONES: I'm not sure how many went in there, though. But right now --

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Let them out. Let them out. Let them out. Let them out.

LEMON: OK. Athena, there are protesters inside of -- what is this a mall? What's going on? And they won't let them out for, what is it? For safety reasons?

JONES: This is a Wal-Mart. It is a new Wal-Mart. They're trying to -- they're trying to keep more people from coming in is the issue. Several protesters went inside carrying signs. And the people in the store came and shut the doors so as to keep people out. But the protesters outside want their group to be allowed out. So this is what you're seeing.

LEMON: I would imagine --

JONES: I don't know what's going on here. Are they going to open it?

LEMON: It's interesting because -- there's been no violence, right, Athena, no looting. And maybe -- maybe that's a concern. But there's been none of that, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're starting confusion. You're not letting them out.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: There has been no violence that we've seen. This has been a peaceful protest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a peaceful protest.

JONES: And many instances along the way, the people who are using mega phones have warned the people who are lying in front of cars or surrounding vehicles, when they're police vehicles or ordinary vehicles, they're warning the crowd don't touch the cars. And so they're trying to make sure that people do not take it to the next level and show any violence. They're very concerned about not showing a picture of violence. And so this -- we have not encountered this yet.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Let's listen, Athena.

JONES: It's a standoff here, I mean. They're peaceful, they walked through Union Station.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Open the door. Open the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door. Open the door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Open the door. Open the door. Open the door. (CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The guy inside don't let them come out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them out.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them out.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: So, Athena, I see a security guard. Are there any police officers around you?

JONES: There was a -- no, not outside. There was a police officer inside that we saw running up the escalator. But it looks as though they may be now letting them out, letting the protesters out. They're walking a large group, walking toward the door. So it looks as though this door might open any minute now. But I've only seen a couple of people addressing police.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: The door is opening, they're coming back out. I suspect to be moving on. This is a fast moving crowd.

LEMON: Athena, if you can get one of those guys coming out and ask them what happened, we'd appreciate that.

JONES: Sure. Of course.

Can you talk about what happened inside there just now? Were you inside? No? Excuse me. Can you talk to what happened inside?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a peaceful protest.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just marched around inside. Came through. And we came back out.

JONES: Were they -- were they not letting you come back down the stairs? Because they locked the door around here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess it was too many people. They were making their customers --

JONES: So there were customers inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

JONES: All right. So that's the situation.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: We couldn't quite hear, Athena. We couldn't hear. If you can just -- just recap what she said.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No peace.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: I just talked to a protester who said that went inside. A few protesters went inside Wal-Mart and they simply marched around. They marched around, she said, protesting peacefully. We have (INAUDIBLE) chanting also inside. They believe that the store managers were concerned that the protesters were (INAUDIBLE).

Making their customers feel uncomfortable. And so it sounds like they blocked inside or prevented them from leaving. It's a pretty big Wal- Mart but perhaps they walked around inside and then were eventually let out. But as we saw outside of here, they did not want to let any more people from this crowd get inside the store. So that's the situation out of here, Don. This is the first encounter

like this we've seen. We didn't see any issues in Union Station.

LEMON: All right. Athena, thank you very much. Nice job there with all the noise. And we apologize there's a delay between Athena and I so sometimes we stepped on each other there.

But again that's happening in Washington. There was a standoff. Appeared to be a standoff at a Wal-Mart. There were people marching around the inside of the Wal-Mart. And then the security would not let other people come in because as you heard Athena say, they were afraid that they were scaring some of the customers.

So we are also hearing now from a protest in Dallas. That we are seeing some arrests in Dallas. We are going to get to all of that in a moment. Take you to cities all across this country.

And also our analysts and contributors are here, Sunny Hostin is, Tara Setmayer. We'll get their reaction to what we just saw among other things. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This is our breaking news tonight as we see the protesters on the Manhattan Bridge. Courtesy of our affiliate WABC. The city of New York many protesters out. They are upset over the chokehold death, of course, of Eric Garner. And let's go right now to CNN's Deborah Feyerick. Deborah is in Times Square.

And as I understand Deborah, you're seeing arrests?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're seeing a lot of arrests. You can see the woman, she's on the end of the line actually. There are about 15 people just ahead of her. I'll tell you the police were much more aggressive especially here at Times Square. It appears as if they were using ambulances, Don, to disperse the crowd. The crowd was very peaceful. They were walking against the flow of traffic up this avenue.

But then ambulance started coming and so the protesters would get out of the streets, they were very respectful, but once they're on the sidewalks, police were corralling them there, preventing their flow, and they were walking in unison, but then the groups -- you get 100 people, that 50 people and then 100 people, and then nobody knew where to go. They got to a certain point in Times Square, stopped, turned around and started walking back in the street, and that's of all these arrest began.

It almost appears like the police are fed up, that they didn't want any kinds of protests here in Times Square, because it shut it down yesterday. And now you can see, this whole line is a little bit difficult, you could see the police on the outside. If you look closely, to their right, all of those people are demonstrations. They're civilians who came out to protest peacefully, to because they were in the street and not on the sidewalk.

They were promptly arrested actually, taking many by surprised, because all the indictment was double back trying to find where all the other protestors went. So, very strategic, but we can tell you, where we were, when we're walking up the West Side Hi-way, it was much, much more aggressive. The police seemed to be out of patience. And they were -- they were making sure that the protestors got on the street -- on the sidewalk, otherwise, threatening them with arrests. But they really were able -- very strategically, to stop the flow, to divide the crowd and then, just arrested. As far as this goes here, Times Square, the protest has been shut down, Don.

LEMON: All right, Deborah Feyerick on the right of your screen, she's in Times Square, on left, do you see protestors marching across the Brooklyn Bridge. Deb, when you get more information, we will get back to you. Thank you, Deborah Feyerick. I wanna go now.

And also, I wanna say, that we are also hearing about this some arrests in Dallas. We'll get to that in a moment. Sunny Hostin is here, she's CNN's legal analyst and a former federal prosecutor. Tara Setmayer, a contributor at the Blaze TV. Thank you very much. I have a caveat here before we do this. Because as we speak, we're gonna play you both this video. And I asked your daughter about playing the video earlier, that I don't want to be disrespectful to her. July 17th, that I don't want to do it too frequently to play it and I want to warn our audience, so this is disturbing so as we talk, that video will roll. Which -- at first to Sunny, what is your reaction as you saw what was happening in D.C. We didn't know what was going...

UNIEDNTIFIED FEMALE: NYPD.

LEMON: To happen.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think that by and large we have seen peaceful protesting.

LEMON: Because of this.

HOSTIN: We've seen people exercising their constitutional right to assembly and peacefully protest. As you know this sort of -- civil disobedience has been around forever. You know the Rogue, Gandhi, MLK Jr. and so, I'm encouraged by what I see, I'm also encouraged by the diversity...

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: Of the protestors.

LEMON: As we -- remember where in Ferguson, were like, the violence, that's not it, everyone's that's not it...

HOSTIN: It's not that it.

LEMON: This is the way you do it.

HOSTIN: Exactly, exactly.

LEMON: Do you agree?

TARA SETMAYER, CONTRIBUTOR AT THE BLAZE TV: Yeah, I mean, as long as you keep it peaceful. I think that's important, people have a right to express their feelings. But my concern about this though is that some of this anger is being incited by misinformation, by inciting certain things that just are not necessary true. You know, the hand up, don't shoot stuff that was a fallacy. You know, some of what was going on and that was a fallacy.

HOSTIN: I got to disagree with that.

SETMAYER: Well, the forensics didn't prove that so...

HOSTIN: I guess, I guess, I guess the video that we saw of white construction worker with his hands up, saying his hand were repeated not to shoot now...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Here's the thing, here's the thing about...

HOSTIN: I guess that video, I guess that video was lying.

LEMON: Listen, listen both of you.

SETMAYER: No, as what I'm saying is the...

HOSTION: Oh, But I guess that video was lying.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: If we want the protestors to be peaceful, then we should be peaceful.

SETAMYER: Yeah, thank you.

LEMON: So here's, here's the thing.

HOSTIN: But let's be accurate.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: You don't want to go back and relitigate what happened. Everybody's argued about what the hands up. The hand's up now has become a message that is carried across the country because, of Eric Garner, because of situations like that. I agree with you. Maybe the forensics did not bear it out but it is gone beyond.

HOSTIN: No, I don't agree with that.

SETMAYER: No. I will -- but we'll not leaving (ph) that...

LEMON: I said maybe. So, just -- I said maybe.

SETMAYER: Right.

HOSTIN: There were several witnesses.

LEMON: So let's move forward.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: So let's be accurate.

LEMON: Let's move forward now because, there are thousands and thousands of people around the country, something is going on and they're saying hands up, don't shoot.

HOSTIN: I think it...

LEMON: So let's live in the moment and talk about what's happening now. Because I want to talk about, I'm sure you saw the daughter of Eric Garner here.

SETMAYER: I did.

LEMON: I asked her several times because, she's not -- she doesn't know the media that well, right?

SETMAYER: Right.

LEMON: She's not into speaking. She said, it's not about race are you saying, that is about black and white. I was trying to get her to say anything I just want to make sure that we didn't misconstrue her word. She saying this is not about this isn't about race. She believes it is about power, abuse of authority.

SETMAYER: Well, I was actually happy to hear her say that. That was encouraging because, a lot of people are trying to make this a racial issue and I don't believe that is either. I think that there is -- you know I respect his daughter and, you know my heart breaks for her. The fact that she was that poised to be out -- to be able to come out and talk about it that way, but I'm so glad that coming from someone who is so directly affected by this, that she said it was not about race, and it is about power. We can have that discussion about police brutality and how happens. And that's -- but, we need to make sure that we separate the discussions...

LEMON: OK.

SETMAYER: One at a time. And not conflict the issues and...

LEMON: OK.

SETMAYER: Become, you know an explosive situation like it is now.

LEMON: Go Sunny.

HOSTIN: Well, you know, I think that it's an American issue. I think if you are black, white, purple, you understand police brutality cannot stand anywhere in our society. But I think we would be remiss to say that, racism and racial bias isn't a part of, of the injustices that we see in our criminal justice system. You know, we do see police brutality in African-American communities, more often than we see it in white communities, and those are just statistics. Police of -- you know that the captain, Officer Bratton made it clear before the city council in September of 2014 that...

LEMON: That (inaudible) to aggressive.

HOSTIN: Officers are too aggressive what police minority neighborhoods.

LEMON: If we can put up the video again as we said we were gonna roll of Eric Garner because, she said, she watched her dad die on television. She said she watched it over and over and over.

HOSTIN: And we have to mindful of that because we're watching a man die.

LEMON: She said that -- the officer was white, her dad is black and they -- regardless, she said, she wants the country and the world to know it should be peaceful and that we should talk about it.

HOSTIN: That's right. It is an American issue. This is an issue in our American justice system. But again, -- and I think everyone should be outraged and I've said that from the beginning, everyone should be outrage when they see -- not only a chokehold being used, an aggressive chokehold being used, that it was, a procedure that was mend -- you know, prohibited...

LEMON: Banned though.

HOSTIN: And banned. But, but also, I think, the lack of, of -- that the casualness after the incident which were people treated.

LEMON: Was it laid.

HOSTIN: I mean he just lay in the street.

LEMON: For almost seven minutes.

HOSTIN: Per se. And with no attendant.

SETMAYER: And I think that there will be legal recourse. And you know, I personally would want it to see, I thought an indictment should have happened to let it here let it play out in court. I understand the police side of things. But I also think that they overstepped too. But there is definitely a civil -- I think there's civil liability here.

LEMON: And possibly a federal liability.

SETMAYER: That's right. And that's why we have a federal civil rights division in the DOJ.

LEMON: And we've got to run, we've got to run, I've got to get to a break. But look at this, look, New York City and then you see -- you've heard from our correspondents saying, these people of all different ethnicities and exercising their right to protest. We're gonna continue to carry this, there have been arrests now. We'll get back to our Deb Feyerick in just a little bit here. All of these people, all over the country protesting the chokehold death of Eric Garner. Our Breaking News continues right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Commotion, arrest happening and we're looking at this video with you, Police Officers in a confrontation with the protesters in Time Square in New York City. These -- pictures are courtesy of our fellow WNBC, we don't have a control over the pictures. But this is what's going on -- our Deborah Feyerick is down there in the crowd as well. Last time we Deb, we saw -- Deb's said that there people were being arrested. We saw then being put in plastic restraints. D we have Deborah?

FEYERICK: Yeah, I'm here Don

LEMON: What's going on, Deb?

FEYERICK: Don, can you hear me?

LEMON: Yeah, I can hear you. What's going on?

FEYERICK: OK. I just want to show you, we have now, probably about two dozen arrests here. These protesters they had walked from the West Side Highway up to...

LEMON: Deb, Can I ask you something, I hate to cut you off here.

FEYERICK: When they gone to Times Square --

LEMON: I want to ask you something.

FEYERICK: Yeah, please, go.

LEMON: So, we're looking at -- live pictures here. I'm not sure exactly where they are in the city, but we're seeing -- we saw witness some sort of commotion between protesters and police, are you anywhere near that?

FEYERICK: Well, it's interesting, we're not. We are at Times Square. The police were successfully able to break up this crowd. It was very interesting. They were much more aggressive on the second night than they have been on the first night. The protesters they began walking up, it appears that the NYPD may even abused ambulances, because the demonstrators were very respectful. Whenever an ambulance would come, they would immediately get on the sidewalk and that's when police essentially, enforce, blocked the protesters, allowing just a couple through at a time. There by breaking up the energy, breaking up the numbers so that ultimately, the protesters simply became lost and separated from one another. When these protesters turned around you can see, war, (ph) they're just coming, they keep coming.

LEMON: Hey Deb.

FEYERICK: These protesters when they walked back down, they were arrested Don.

LEMON: Yeah, Deb. Where are you? Because, what we're looking at is -- we're looking at picture of 7th avenue and 43rd street. And again, I'm not sure if you're close to but, if you're just tuning in...

FEYERICK: So...

LEMON: I wanna hang on Deb.

FEYERICK: Yeah, we were that close.

LEMON: I wanna tell our viewers that we're looking at pictures from 7th Avenue and 43rd Street in Times Square. There has been a commotion between police officers and the protesters. You see the protesters crowded around police cars. There was a big skirmish, just a short time ago. And you see there some people being arrested at the top of your screen, and being place and restraints.

FEYERICK: Why are you arrested?

LEMON: And the officers have been going up against those protesters. Deborah Feyerick is also in Times Square, she's in a different part of Times Square. She's asking an officer now, why they were arresting them and Deb what you got that, that's jumped in. But again, this is what we're looking at now, and look at the people being pushed up against that police car. That is not -- safe. And again, this is the first that we have seen -- any real...

FEYERICK: Why are you arrested? Why are you arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was arrested for standing a protesting. They punched me and arresting me.

FEYERICK: Why are you arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I (inaudible)

LEMON: Deb, you're live by the way.

FEYERICK: Why, what were you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought long now, an officer (inaudible) FEYERICK: Why they arrest you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And my sweater (ph)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wouldn't let us walk to Times Square.

LEMON: What the other guy said, Deb? Deborah Feyerick can you hear me? Apparently, we lost communication with Deborah Feyerick but again, you can see that what's going on in Times Square obviously, it's a very fluid (ph) situation and we, you know, situations like this, we can't always get in contact with our correspondents. You heard Deborah Feyerick talking to some of the protesters there who had been restrained or arrested and they're saying they wouldn't let us walk tough Times Square. So, on the right of your screen, those are the people who had been arrested, on the left of your screen, you're looking at people who are -- some of them, appear to be in a -- a squeamish with police officers. And, there's a bit rougher, just a short time ago as we continue to look at these pictures. You can see them putting their plastic restraint on the right side of your screen.

I want to bring in now Jeffrey Toobin, he is senior -- where are keeping these pictures up -- our senior legal analyst here on CNN and then forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht. So, Jeffrey, to you first for this has been -- very peaceful for the most part here in New York City, and now we're witnessing this -- what do you make of this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think -- it's tense, there some pushing and shoving but, it's not, a dramatic confrontation yet, and I think the police still have control. But look, it's getting late and everybody is probably getting tired and cold and frustrated and, that that could lead to some confrontations. I think it seems like the protesters are generally behaving very well. The cops are generally behaving very well and, the situation is -- for the moment. OK, but, as time passes the risk go up.

LEMON: Yeah. And again Jeffrey, we're gonna continue to leave this picture up as we talk about this case, what we have learned. So, Jeffrey we learned a little bit more about the grand jury today, they sat for nine weeks and I heard from 50 witnesses, 60 exhibits were admitted...

FEYERICK: I got it, I got it.

LEMON: That included 4 videos, is that normal procedure?

TOOBIN: Well it was certainly an extensive grand jury investigation. And the interestingly it also said, the -- release that came out today from the court that there were four videos shown. I think we've only seen two publicly. They also said they introduced many, many documents relating to the official procedures of, the New York City police department. So, there was at least presented to the grand jury, the question of, whether the police officers follow -- followed procedure. But, what's no -- worth noting is how much we don't know about the grand jury proceedings. The most important thing is we don't know who testified. And we don't know what they said, the transcripts were not released and they're not going to be release so, yes, we know a little bit about the broad outlines, they heard from a lot of witnesses, 22 civilians -- 22 police officers, 28 civilians, EMT's, doctors, medical personnel. But, what they said is unknown.

LEMON: Yeah. OK, Jeffrey, just stand by. I want to bring in Dr. Cyril Wecht and again I want to tell our viewers that you're looking at what's going on in Times Square in New York City. There was a bit of a squeamish with police officers and protesters and we're hearing from Deborah Feyerick, we lost contact with her just a little bit. And when we get her back we'll bring her in. There have been arrests and we saw police placing people in plastic restraints. This is all Dr. Wecht, because of -- a chokehold, and how Eric garner died. Very dangerous and there's a reason they were banned.

DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, chokehold has been banned by all law enforcement agencies. Just envision this, getting somebody's neck in the crux of your elbow and squeezing. Not only do you run the risk of breaking the thyroid cartilage. But you are blocking arterial flow to the brain. You are obstructing venous return back to the heart, and you are pressing on the nerves that come down, one on each side, the Vegas (ph) nerve, the tenth cranial nerve from the brain, that entering to the chest cavity and control cardiac and respiratory function. That leads to diminution of respiratory activity, cardiac arrhythmia, and that really is what results in death. So, you have a man who is pleading that he can't breathe. Keep this also in mind, unlike position on asphyxiation, not to excuse that kind of also banned police behavior. But there, police officers are on top of some body, the face is down.

LEMON: Right.

WECHT: You don't really see it. Here, you've got the chokehold, you are right next to the man's face and you hear him gasping, you hear his words for that to not have made an impression on that police officer for him to have released his hold, is absolutely, absolutely inexplicable.

LEMON: Dr. Wecht?

WECHT: Totally unacceptable.

LEMON: Thank you very much. We appreciate your expertise. Stand by Dr. Cyril Wecht also our Jeffrey Toobin. This is Times Square you're looking at, were protests have been peaceful and they --listen, there's, there's nothing compare to what we saw in Ferguson. But there have been some confrontation with police officers and protesters this evening and you saw some of it live here on CNN. I'm sure you will continue to see us, as we continue to broadcast here. The streets of New York, all across this country, people are coming out, protesting the chokehold death of Eric Garner. We're gonna be back live with these pictures. And also, some very interesting comments from Ann Coulter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I'm Don Lemon we're back now live, with pictures of what's happening in New York City. People are out in mass. What are you looking at now, Times Square, where there have been confrontations with police officers? We'll continue to follow the developments here on CNN. But I want my next guest to weigh in. Joining me now is Ann Coulter, conservative columnist and the author of, "Never Trust a Liberal Over 3-Especially a Republican." Do you think the officer should have been indicted?

ANN COULTER, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: I'm not sure. I'll tell you why I reacted the way I think everyone did. Five guys, for selling untaxed cigarettes and I -- think he made a very good point. I was watching you last night saying, would this have happened if he was white? I say, yes. And I would also add to this, why isn't that The New York times and MSNBC were not using this as the case? This, the Eric Garner case is what they claimed Ferguson was, but is not. Here it really is a gentle giant. Here it really is police aggression. And I submit to you it's because these police were collecting taxes. You will never see fascism as a liberal trying to get your taxes.

LEMON: Yeah.

COULTER: They do the same thing with E-ZPass, and By the way there has been violence for untaxed cigarettes against other races mostly the Indians.

LEMON: Still, what -- what I hear you saying is that, there is -- there was some ambiguity in Ferguson. Because of the, got inside the police car, reached for the officer's gun, there was a fight in the police car, and there is no videotape. This one, there is videotape. You saw the guy. It's pretty plain and simple.

COULTER: Well, I saw the video of -- I think it is more than videotape. No videotape. We do know -- there are facts about Ferguson. I thought that...

LEMON: No, no, I'm talking about videotape...

COULTER: OK, but here...

LEMON: In Staten Island. Yeah.

COULTER: OK. But here, I think everyone's reaction. The reason people are outraged is because this was to collect taxes. If you knew that, Eric Garner for example, if they were arresting a rapist, if they were arresting someone who is just committed assault. Maybe it wasn't excessive. What makes that video so shocking is -- are you kidding me? This is to collect taxes to pay for your public sector union pensions and you -- this is not the only place you will see it. I'll give you another example, but you...

LEMON: So they should have written him a citation and they were gone.

COULTER: I don't know frankly, I don't think they should be so pissy (ph) about untaxed cigarettes. But, Bloomberg wanted it because it's anti-smoking. Liberals want it because they want the tax money.

LEMON: And to buy a cigarette. To buy pack of cigarettes here it will cost you... COULTER: All the time.

LEMON: $12, $13 the cost of it.

COULTER: Exactly. You find this all the time with liberals collecting taxes and the same thing with the E-ZPass. Use -- ACLU has sued to prevent an E-ZPass or a Metro card from being used to catch a rapist and murder.

LEMON: OK.

COULTER: But they use E-ZPass all the time, you could nail people for being New York residents so they can collect taxes.

LEMON: OK, hold on. I want to play this for you. Because I want get everything in here. The Former Mayor of New York City Rudolph Giuliani, lashed out at Mario de Blasio over his response to Eric Garner's, to the Eric Garner decision, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDOLF GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: If he wants to train young black men in how to avoid being killed in the city, you can talk about police. Police should never kill anybody unjustifiably. I have put them in jail when that happens. But you should spend 90 percent of your time talking about the way they're actually probably going to get killed, which is by another black. To avoid that fact, to avoid that fact, I think is racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So he characterized that as racist. He said he has characterized the mayor's response as racist. Do you think the mayor's response is racist?

COULTER: I think it was pompous and uncalled for. I don't think this has anything to do with racism. And de Blasio is actually talking about this is what I was elected for, as if he is Martin Luther King, give me a break -- 12 percent of the city voted for you because, because people weren't paying attention, he gets in on a fluke. If Obama is going to attack Republicans in the midterm election for turnout allegedly being down, which it wasn't.

LEMON: Are you blaming this on de Blasio?

COULTER: No, but we're commenting on what he is saying. That's all I'm saying.

LEMON: Yeah.

COULTER: I think he's - I thought he was pompous before. I think he is even more pompous now.

LEMON: Did you watch the daughter of Eric Garner on earlier?

COULTER: No, I didn't. LEMON: She said, she said, that she thought it was about an abuse of authority on that, necessary about race. And we have 20 seconds. What do you think?

COULTER: That might be right, and the only reason I hesitate on things should he be indicted, I don't know big evidence the y saw. The way I feel about the cops is the way I feel about airport security guards. It's not their fault but they're being forced to enforce, stupid, stupid laws. But you will never see fascism like a liberal trying to collect taxes. And that's what we are seeing here.

LEMON: You need a little more passion Ann Coulter.

COULTER: Yes, I do.

LEMON: Thank you.

COULTER: Thank you. Good to see you.

LEMON: Right. Very much appreciated. It's good to see you. We'll continue to follow the Breaking News. We'll be right back here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)