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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

New York Protests; American Hostage in New Terrorist Video; Interview with Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson

Aired December 4, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All of America eyewitness to the final moments of his life.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead, the NYPD caught on tape choking Eric Garner, throwing him to the ground, leaving him unconscious on the sidewalk. So far, the protests over his death and the decision of a grand jury to not indict the police officer who choked him have been peaceful. But will they stay that way?

And the grand jury would not charge him, but the NYPD says it's conducting its own investigation into officer Pantaleo. Chokeholds have been banned by New York's finest for more than two decades. Will police brass strip Pantaleo of his shield?

Plus, an exclusive interview with one of the nation's top law enforcement officials, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security joining us in the studio this hour.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin today with our national lead, which is the outcry after the death of another unarmed black man at the hands of a white police officer and a grand jury's decision to not send that officer to trial; 83 people have been arrested since that decision was announced.

Protesters held up traffic in Times Square, shouting, "I can't breathe, I can't breathe." Those of course were the fateful last words of Eric Garner, who was killed during a confrontation with the NYPD on July 17.

Cell phone video of Garner that you might not have seen is now drawing attention, this from the moments after police wrestled him to the ground. The video shows Garner, a father of six, unconscious, lying motionless on the sidewalk. It's difficult to tell if he's breathing at first.

Now, no one attempts CPR during this time in the video. It isn't until four minutes in when an officer finally checks his pulse. As you can see in the left-hand corner of your screen, it's still a few more minutes before officers finally load Garner onto a gurney.

This case, in some ways, seems different than the reaction, for instance, to the nonindictment of Michael Brown's shooter. In this case, even some conservative commentators, ones who normally seem to side with police, have been expressing confusion and bewilderment and even disgust after this grand jury decision.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: How could you possibly come up with this particular verdict? What went wrong? When you look at what they did to this guy and the putting him in a chokehold like that, it's -- it's inexcusable, absolutely inexcusable and brutal.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: For now, hopes of finding out how the grand jury reached its decision seemed to be on hold.

Just hours ago, a Staten Island judge released limited information on the panel, the number of witnesses, 50, how many exhibits were entered into evidence, 60. But what the witnesses said, what that evidence was, we do not know and we will not know. No transcripts or testimony of evidence will be released to the public, we're told.

CNN's Joe Johns is now live for us in New York.

Joe, what is the latest, sir?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, there is another demonstration scheduled here in Manhattan tonight, 5:30 Eastern time at Foley Square.

After last night's demonstration, we now have a breakdown on the people who were taken into custody, as we have been reporting, 83 people arrested. Of those, 80 were for disorderly conduct or obstructing vehicles. Three were for resisting arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): Demonstrators hit the streets in Times Square Wednesday night, chanting Eric Garner's last words.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: I can't breathe! I can't breathe!

JOHNS: Garner died after this encounter with the NYPD.

ERIC GARNER, NEW YORK RESIDENT: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

JOHNS: And, today, officials are vowing change.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Too many Americans feel deep unfairness when it comes to the gap between our professed ideals and how laws are applied on a day-to-day basis.

JOHNS: The Department of Justice is launching a federal investigation into Garner's killing and Attorney General Eric Holder says police reforms will go a long way to make the streets safer for everyone. ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: There are real, practical, and

concrete measures that can be taken to ensure not only that police services are delivered into a constitutional manner, but that we can promote public safety, officer safety, confidence and collaboration, transparency and legitimacy.

JOHNS: New York Mayor Bill de Blasio vowed to change the way officers are trained.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: Changing how our officers talk with residents of this city, changing how they listen, slowing down some interactions that sometimes escalate too quickly.

JOHNS: The New York Police Department will escalate its internal affairs investigation while officer Pantaleo is on modified assignment. His badge and gun have been taken away.

This is not the first time he's been accused of civil rights violations. "The Staten Island Advance" reports he's been suited twice. One case was settled for $30,000 at taxpayer expense. A second case is still open. But the New York City Police Benevolent Association is very strongly backing Pantaleo.

PATRICK LYNCH, PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: This was a police officer who was sent to that location to do a difficult job, had to bring a person to the ground that said I'm not going and was resisting arrest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: A little bit more on that retraining the mayor talked about, 21,000 officers expected to go through. It should last three days for all of them, all about learning how to deal with the public -- Jake.

TAPPER: Joe Johns, thank you so much.

While the police union says officer Pantaleo acted lawfully, the bosses at One Police Plaza are digging deeper.

The NYPD says it's ramping up its inquiry into Pantaleo. Its own investigation was on hold while the grand jury process unfolded. Internal affairs now plans to interview additional officers and could weigh a departmental trial to determine out if Pantaleo broke NYPD rules.

I want to go to Letitia James now. She's a public advocate for New York City and a former assistant attorney general for the state.

Ms. James, thanks for joining us.

Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said that the video itself, the one we have all seen many times, Commissioner Bratton saying that's not the final determinate in the case. What are we missing here? What did the grand jury here that we don't see in this video?

LETITIA JAMES, PUBLIC ADVOCATE FOR NEW YORK CITY: Well, that's really the point. We just don't know what the grand jury heard.

We heard today that the judge decided to release limited information, information that was already reported in the public media. And so the question really is, 50 witnesses, what did they say, 60 exhibits, what did they show? Videos, four videos, what did they present?

All of that information needs to be shown to the public to ensure that justice -- that there was justice for the Garner family and to explain to the Garner family why they have decided to vote for a no true bill. That's really the problem.

The problem is, you have a district attorney who set the tone of a grand jury, a district attorney who basically crafted the narrative, and a district attorney, let's be honest, who has a relationship with NYPD, who often relies upon NYPD to prosecute cases on Staten Island.

And so my proposal is that we really need an independent prosecutor when it comes to cases of police shootings which result in grave injury and/or death, and, in this particular case, when the limited information doesn't shed any light on the situation. And it does really a disservice to justice and it's actually disrespectful to the Garner family, as well to the rest of New Yorkers of conscience, who really want to know what happened behind those closed doors.

And so we need more sunshine, more transparency into the grand jury process.

TAPPER: I'm a reporter, so I always support more sunshine and more transparency.

But let me ask you another question. Reading from the NYPD patrol guide, procedure number 203-11, members of the New York City Police Department will not use chokeholds. And they have a definition, blocking a windpipe, that seems to be what officer Pantaleo did.

That of course -- officer Pantaleo's action is part of the reason that Eric Garner died, according to the medical exercise. Is that enough for officer Pantaleo to be kicked off the NYPD, he used a chokehold?

JAMES: There's administrative proceedings right now that have been initiated by police Commissioner Bratton.

And so as they go forward, the ultimate decision will be up to Commissioner Bratton as to whether or not they can remove this police officer from the force. As we all -- as you just reported, there were two open cases. There was one case which resulted in a judgment and another case which is still open and outstanding.

And now we have the death of Eric Garner. I believe and I would argue that that's enough to remove him from the force.

(CROSSTALK)

JAMES: I would even argue that the police commissioner...

TAPPER: Go ahead. JAMES: I would argue that police Commissioner Bratton, as well as the mayor of the city of New York, really should institute early warning signs for police officers, again, who have a practice and pattern of engaging in abuse against civilians in the city of New York, so that we don't have police officers who engage in aggressive policing in our city.

TAPPER: All right, Letitia James, thank you so much, public advocate for the city of New York. Appreciate it.

JAMES: Thank you.

TAPPER: I'm joined now by the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Jeh Johnson.

Secretary Johnson, thanks for being here.

Obviously, we have you here to talk about a number of issues, including terrorism and immigration. But I have to ask you, what do you tell people when they ask you, is what happened in Staten Island, is that justice?

JEH JOHNSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, Jake, what I say to people confronted with a situation like this -- people are upset. People are outraged.

Without making a judgment about a particular case, as an attorney, as a former prosecutor, what I would say to the public is, if you want change to come about as a result of an event like this, engage the political process in a positive way, in a positive, nonviolent way to bring about political change, which can also bring about change in how the criminal justice system in a particular jurisdiction is -- is conducted.

We have seen that happen time and again. In the wake of an event like this, people engage the process and change does occur over time.

TAPPER: President Obama is pushing for body cameras for police officers. But Eric Garner's mother, Gwen Carr, said that the body camera program is a waste of money -- quote -- "The video camera didn't make a difference to the grand jury. What do we need body cameras for?"

What do you tell Eric Garner's mother?

JOHNSON: Well, cameras are being used for law enforcement vehicles, individuals more and more. There's an expense associated with it.

It can be a good practice in certain circumstances. I would want to be mindful of whether it's practical in every single instance for a law enforcement officer.

TAPPER: All right, Secretary Johnson, stick around, if you will.

We have got a lot more to discuss about immigration and terrorism and that standoff between President Obama and Congress. But, first, our world lead today -- an American held hostage in Yemen

begging for help in a new video released by al Qaeda. The terrorist group is promising he will die in three days if their demands are not met. Now we're learning he narrowly missed being rescued. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

In our world lead -- a shocking video showing yet another American citizen paraded before the camera by terrorists overseas. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula based in Yemen this morning released this three- minute hostage video of 33-year-old photojournalist Luke Somers. He pleads for his life as his captors rail against the United States and threaten to execute Somers if their demands are not met.

CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports on the American response.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The only known American hostage in Yemen finally spoke.

LUKE SOMERS, AMERICAN HOSTAGE: My name is Luke Somers. I'm 33 years old. I was born in England but I carry American citizenship and have lived in America for most of my life.

STARR: Somers was kidnapped by al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen in September 2013. He'd been working as a photojournalist capturing images of Yemen's often violent political struggles.

In the video distributed by al Qaeda, Somers pleads for help.

SOMERS: Basically, I'm looking for any help that can get me out of this situation. I'm certain that my life is in danger. So, as I sit here now, I ask if anything can be done, please let it be done. Thank you very much.

STARR: Al Qaeda says it's giving the U.S. three days to meet unspecified demand or Somers will meet his, quote, "inevitable fate". Unlike hostage tapes from ISIS driven mainly by ideology and violence, these militants may now be looking for ransom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have an organization that sometimes is strapped for cash to conduct operations, they will desire the ransom money more than others like ISIL.

STARR: With the al Qaeda tape of Somers now made public, the administration is acknowledging last month's failed nighttime commando raid to recover him. The troops dropped by helicopter, hiked four miles to the target.

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: As soon as the U.S. had reliable intelligence and an operational plan, the president authorized the Department of Defense to conduct an operation to recover Mr. Somers.

STARR (on camera): The team undertook a daring nighttime rescue. Eight hostages were recovered but Somers and several others had already been moved. The Pentagon says it is still looking for the American -- Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Barbara Starr, thank you so much. For more on the security threats facing Americans and the United States, I want to continue our exclusive interview with Jeh Johnson, the secretary of Department of Homeland Security.

Secretary Johnson, how concerned are you that this is the new M.O. for terrorists abroad, kidnap Americans, parade them before the cameras and kill them?

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, Jake, as your show just pointed out, in some cases, terrorist organizations do this simply for elicit revenue. Others do it because they demonstrated the depravity to kill Americans because they are Americans.

What I believe is significant now in addition to the threats we've traditionally faced from overseas, is the use by these organizations of social media, literature, that has a reach into the United States, that has the ability to reach individuals, so-called "lone wolves", here in the United States, that we have to vigilant and looking for -- which is why public engagement, by engagement by my department with state and local law enforcement, by a number of the engagements that I'm conducting myself in the Islamic community in this country have become more important because the lone wolf of the type we saw in Ottawa, of the type we saw at the Boston marathon can act with little notice -- little notice to law enforcement to, our intelligence community.

So, it's important that we be engaged in the community in large metropolitan areas to talk to people about, if you see something, say something, to get people engaged in our homeland security effort, because we have a combined interest in it.

TAPPER: We've seen in recent months, especially since the rise of ISIS, arrests of Americans who were on their way overseas to go fight with ISIS or similar groups, and yet there was also a case with a fighter for the al Qaeda affiliate in Syria, the Al Nusra Front, was able to go back home to Florida and carry out a terrorist attack in -- I forget if it was Lebanon or Syria, but back in that area. How much is law enforcement and your department on top of every single one of them? I think it would be impossible to know every case.

JOHNSON: Well, that's the other new phenomenon, a relatively new phenomena in our counterterrorism efforts, the foreign fighter, the individual who picks up from his home country, goes to a place like Syria to take up with a terrorist organization there and then could return to their home country, which could include the United States.

So, what we're doing with our foreign allies, our engaging agreements to exchange more information about individuals of suspicion. It's one of the reasons why we are now asking for more information from travelers who come from countries for which we do not require a visa to this country so we know more about these individuals.

And in terms of the law enforcement effort here, we've made a number of arrests of individuals who were attempting to leave this country and go overseas. I think the FBI's counterterrorism efforts are good. We know a lot about these individuals. We -- as you point out, we can't know everything. But I think we do a pretty good job of tracking these individuals, tracking individuals of suspicion and we're going to continue to do that.

TAPPER: The holidays are coming up. There have been incredible news reports that the TSA was considering a ban of carry-on luggage because of intelligence that al Qaeda was plotting to take down some planes. Do you think that could ever happen in this country, a ban on carry-on luggage?

JOHNSON: Well, without a doubt, our counterterrorism efforts and concerns continue to focus on a degree on aviation security, which is the reason why we direct certain enhancements at airports overseas in our screening of people before they get on airplanes and we continually evaluate whether more is necessary, without unnecessarily burdening the traveling public.

I am not all discouraging people from traveling this holiday season. I think people should continue to do that and have a happy and safe holiday, but we continue to be vigilant and we continually evaluate whether more is necessary, based on the latest threat streams.

TAPPER: But nothing -- no ban on carry-on luggage yet but you're considering everything?

JOHNSON: There's no ban on carry-on luggage at this time.

TAPPER: At this time. OK.

I want to turn to immigration in the remaining time that we have left. Since the president's intentions became known about the executive actions and executive order he was going to carry out, has there been an increase in illegal immigration from the South, from the border?

JOHNSON: No. The numbers are actually way down from where they were last summer when we had the unprecedented spike. We put a very aggressive campaign in place to address it. The numbers fell off dramatically. The numbers in the Rio Grande Valley, in particular, South Texas, are the lowest that they have been in two years.

And a point that needs to be emphasized about the executive actions we announced on November 20, is that a large component of them is border security, a large component of our executive actions prioritize the deportation of those who recently arrived here illegally, January 1, 2014, on. Those have been here for a number of years who have kids here who were U.S. citizens, who become integrated members of society, the president has said, you have the opportunity to come forward and submit to a criminal background check and be accountable. But as to the future, we are prioritizing the removal of those who

come here in the future because our borders are not open to illegal migration.

TAPPER: As you know, there's been an outcry of the House of Representatives today voted to block the executive order. There are 17 states threatening to sue the Obama administration because of the executive order. This certainly is a divisive action that the president and you have taken.

JOHNSON: Well, I want the American public to understand that what we have done is simple commonsense. We have a broken immigration system. We were hoping to have Congress as our partners in fixing that. But we waited over a year for Congress to act.

In the meantime, we identified a number of things that, through executive action, we could do ourselves to fix the system, to deal with the tremendous backlog of cases, to deal with border security in the future. We're beefing up border security in the future.

We hope to have Congress as our partner in that. Rather than voting to ban things, I'd like to have Congress as our partner in a positive way to fix the broken immigration system.

TAPPER: All right. Good luck with that.

Secretary Johnson, always a pleasure. Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up next, it is shocking video. Police tackling Eric Garner, bringing him to the ground. But it's some of the video shot after this moment that may be the most disturbing. Could police have done something to save Eric Garner?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD, I'm Jake Tapper.

More in our national lead now: the grand jury's decision not to indict the New York City police officer for the death of an unarmed man may have come down to a key piece of evidence, a cell phone video that showed what happened during Eric Garner's fatal encounter with the police. And while much of the focus outside of the grand jury has been on the moment that Officer Pantaleo takes Garner down in a chokehold, the grand jury may have taken something else into account -- the actions of the other officers.