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CNN TONIGHT

Protests Near Macy's and Madison Square Garden; Assault Allegations Against Cosby Grow

Aired December 3, 2014 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Deborah Feyerick, we'll get back to you. Standby.

My colleagues are out in the field tonight and we will get to them as warranted here this evening. I wanted to discuss all this. I want to bring in now, my legal experts and my police experts as well.

Jeffrey Toobin is CNN senior legal analyst, Mark O'Mara, legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Sunny Hostin, a legal analyst and a former federal prosecutor and also Tom Verni, former NYPD detective, who worked as a patrol officer and police academy instructor. Tom joins me here tonight on set. Thank you for joining us.

No indictment tonight for a father of six. So before I get to you, I want all of you to pay close attention to this. I want to play a little bit from Eric Garner's mother, Gwen Carr. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR: I am truly disappointed in the grand jury decision this evening. I don't know what video they were looking at. Evidently it wasn't the same one the rest of the world was looking at. How could we put our trust in the justice system when they fail us like this? They didn't only fail me, they failed many of us. And -- if we don't take care of this, they may fail you in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This family is -- very eloquent and very strong to be this close after this announcement. Sunny, this is what you did. You are a prosecutor here in New York City. So I have to ask, after listening to that family. What does a family do now? What can they do now? What are their options in court?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I wasn't in New York City. I'm a native New Yorker. I prosecuted cases in the District of Columbia for the Department of Justice. I was a federal prosecutor. But I think -- at this point the family is definitely looking towards the Justice Department, the federal system to intervene.

And I think that their reliance on that is actually pretty well placed. When you look at the history of unsuccessful state prosecutions and unsuccessful state investigations, then turning into successful federal investigations, and successful federal prosecutions, like Rodney King, we have a long history of that.

I think if we have fair, impartial, independent review by the Justice Department as Attorney General Holder indicated as the U.S. attorney for the eastern district of New York, Loretta Lynch indicated, I think perhaps, this is the case, where, the family will feel that justice will be served.

I would not be surprised if we did not see an indictment on federal charges in this case. I think this video is just so very clear. It is the best evidence, in my view, in the civil rights violation.

LEMON: And, Jeffrey, go ahead.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Don, to add one point, they are going to sue the city of New York for millions of dollars and the taxpayers are going to wind up paying Eric Garner's family a great deal of money.

The city of New York is not going to want to try this case. They're going to settle the case. So this police officer, he is not going to be prosecuted on state charges.

But you can be sure he cost the taxpayers a great deal of money not to mention, of course, more importantly, costing Eric Garner his life.

LEMON: Tom, want to go to you now. As a former NYPD officer and a training officer, to the average lay person. It looks like the officers are untouchable. Tell me about the police point of view in this?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: I think the police are shocked the officer was not indicted because of what happened in Ferguson and recent events in police involved shootings. I think the police were under the impression he would be indicted that for political pressure. People we are not going to see the evidence placed in front of them.

LEMON: So you are surprised that he was not indicted?

VERNI: I was kind of surprised he was not indicted to be honest. I am glad that he wasn't because I don't know of any other officer that really would have done all that much different. You know, Monday morning quarterback the situation, any one could come up with a thousand different ways that they think they could have handled it.

At that time and place, Mr. Garner was -- by the way, my condolences to the Garner family. We are talking about someone who died here. We can't let that go. Someone did die here as a result of this incident.

But I think also on the flip side people make certain choices when they're interacting with police. When police have told them whether they're selling cocaine or they are selling untaxed cigarettes. Whatever crime they're enforcing at the time and they let this person know that they're under arrest.

They are to comply with the lawful orders of the officer at that point. Mr. Garner was not doing that. His hands were not behind his back. He was not being cuffed willfully. One officer tried to grab his hand to cuff him in the beginning of the shot and he pulled away. Don't touch me. Don't touch me.

That debate is not going to go on for hours on end. At some point, this gentleman needs to be put under arrest and he was no stranger to the criminal justice system. He had been arrested 30 some odd times.

LEMON: Mark, I had to ask you this because the New York medical examiner, said homicide by compression of neck meaning the chokehold, compression of the chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police. So if the medical examiner ruled it as a homicide then people are wondering, well then, why no indictment?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think because the grand jury looked at it, tried to decide what this particular officer did wrong and for whatever reasons, and again, we have to remember, the grand jury saw a lot more than what we have seen.

And we have to give them some leeway in making the decision that they made. But having said that, when you look at the statute, they still have to show that the officer acted in a criminally negligent way and the grand jury looking at what he did.

The type of hold his testimony for a couple hours before then made a decision that at this point we should respect until we find out a touch more. That it didn't rise to the level of a probable cause charge.

It surprises us. The videotape seems to show improper behavior. They're going to pay a bunch of money. I don't think he can get charged criminally obviously in the state. I think he is not going to get charged federally either probably.

LEMON: So you differ with Jeffrey. Jeffrey says there is a better chance than Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson.

O'MARA: Well, Darren Wilson is not going to get charged federally. I think everyone agrees, haven't heard an analyst suggest differently on that. My reason, I disagree with Jeff and Sunny a little bit because there are exceptions, Rodney King, however those are the huge exceptions.

Normally, when a person is not prosecuted at the state level they're also not prosecuted at the federal level. With 23 people looking at this case, two, three months we have to presume that they did not act out of pure ignorance.

They looked at evidence that we are not aware of and that the federal government is going to see probably the same evidence.

HOSTIN: I think we could also presume, Mark, that perhaps it is the way that the prosecutor's office presented the case in front of the grand jury that led the grand jury not to indict.

O'MARA: Absolutely true. LEMON: I've been watching all of you all day here. I've been on with you and, even, in my office, you look at the body language. Police officers, the police side in this case, the analyst people who come on and they say how can you look at that?

It speaks to the distrust of the community and the analysts. See the people on, how do you not see that? So then -- what, what are do we do here to bridge that gap because, police don't seem to be budging. The community doesn't seem to be budging. What gives here, Tom?

O'MARA: Well, here is one example I could do, Don, if I might say -- and the policing. I'm sorry. We talk about community policing. This is an example that these people, the cops, should have community policed better than this.

If he is selling, loosies, (inaudible) get six people thrown on top of him and if they had an insight as to how to build relationship. Maybe he could be an example how we are going to get along with the community. Rather than how we will be tough with the community.

LEMON: Tom.

VERNI: Right. And, as we discussed before, selling loosies is quality of life type of crime, which the community complains about. They bring complaints to the commanding officer of the precinct or the politicians who cover the area, who then tell the cops. Go out and enforce those quality of life laws and when they do that -- you come into this conflict.

O'MARA: Deal with the crack dealers first.

LEMON: So you touched on the point I was going to make. So you can have marijuana now, right, in New York City. You saw the police commissioner, mayor, come on with the big bag. They were right, why not just write the guy a summons as you do for people who are selling, you know, don't have a vendor's license on the street?

VERNI: I don't know what decision was made by supervisor on the scene, which warranted them to actually arrest him. In some cases you can write a summons. In some cases, you can't. A summons is in lieu of arrest.

HOSTIN: Come on. Come on.

VERNI: He has a criminal record. You know, if he, maybe a warrant check, maybe his name came back.

HOSTIN: Selling loosie is violation punishable by a fine. You know, we are not talking about a major crime here and I think --

VERNI: I'm not disputing that. But people have to be eligible to receive a criminal court summons. In some cases they're not. The supervisor on the scene directed their officers to make the arrest at some point. We don't know.

HOSTIN: These actions are indefensible. But I think when you look at the larger issue here, what can we do to build the trust between the community, what can we do to take measures that this doesn't happen again? You know, I have been a proponent for body cameras on police officers quite some time. That protects not only the officers --

LEMON: We talked earlier would it have made a difference in the case?

HOSTIN: That's just the very beginning. I think we also need how to train our officers on bias. I think we also need to train our officers on, escalation of force. Why would you take somebody down for a violation? Why not try to de-escalate the situation?

VERNI: There is a continuum. There is a continuum of forces at all police departments use. The FBI has on their web site. You can look --

HOSTIN: I didn't see it in this case.

VERNI: There absolutely was because in normal circumstances, the professional presence of the police in some cases can deter or prevent a crime from happening. Here we had someone who commit a low level crime, vocal command were such that he was under arrest. At that point, turn around put his hand behind his back. He didn't do that. By not complying he is automatically resisting.

HOSTIN: I didn't see resisting. That's absurd.

TOOBIN: I was a prosecutor in Brooklyn and I love cops. I worked with cops all the time.

HOSTIN: Ditto.

TOOBIN: This is a disgrace. This is a disgrace with what happened here. Cops are supposed to have judgment. And Tom, for you to say, well, if you are going to arrest somebody for cocaine, you're going to arrest someone for loosies, it's all the same thing. No it is not. No it is not.

VERNI: Are you familiar --

TOOBIN: Yes, I'm very familiar.

VERNIE: Esteemed panel and I'm sure you are aware of this. Taking care of low level crimes, such as quality of life issues around the city will prevent or not cause the larger crimes to occur or sometimes people who are committing those lower crimes have committed the larger crimes when they get out of prison and come back.

TOOBIN: And the broken window theory. Can I just, can I just, to, sorry to interrupt Mark. The broken windows theory, in no way endorses strangling to death people who are --

VERNI: Nobody was strangled. They used physical force.

HOSTIN: Homicide by chokehold, how is that not strangling?

VERNI: He was not complying with the officer's command under arrest. TOOBIN: One thing. The cops exercise judgment all the time and the judgment in this circumstance was appalling at best, criminal at worst. And the idea that anyone can justify arresting someone for, for selling loosies, in a confrontation that ends in homicide is just inconceivable to me.

LEMON: Mark O'Mara.

O'MARA: Yes. To echo what Tom says, there is no appellate process on the street. You have to listen to what a cop says even if you don't like it because then you file a complaint. The problem with cops, when not getting out of a car, not effectuating an arrest, when you do it, it's true. When you battle with a cop on the street --

HOSTIN: Did you see a battle on that video? There is no battle. Did you see a battle? Did you see resistance, physicality, aggression?

O'MARA: Sunny. Sunny. Sunny.

LEMON: Sunny.

HOSTIN: Let's not use rhetoric. Call it what it is?

O'MARA: No rhetoric, Sunny. Here is what we're saying. Everyone has to be more careful with respecting cops on the street. Not in this particular case. But if there is that concern about the escalation of activity between two people, cops on the street are going to win those battles.

We have to be aware that that's true. You as a former prosecutor know it very well because you protected cops who had to act in a way in effectuating arrests doing what they did. All I'm saying. This particular case was outrageous.

LEMON: Standby everyone. When we come right back, more on tonight's breaking news, protests spreading across New York over the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

Plus another woman comes forward to accuse Bill Cosby of sexual assault. She tells her emotional story tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Don Lemon here. Breaking news tonight, a protest is spreading across the streets of New York City tonight in the wake of the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is out in the middle of those protests. Deborah, last time you were talking Times Square, uptown. Where are you now?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are in Times Square, walking past Madison Square Garden. We are now walking towards Union Square. The Freedom Tower is sort of way, way in the distance there. They're marching against traffic. That's one of the goals of the demonstrators was to take the streets, was to block traffic. It is one of the reasons that they went to the west side highway. They were able to take control of both sides of that highway backing up traffic for miles. But the energy continues to swell.

You know, it will get quiet for a little bit. Then all of a sudden there is a huge swell, cry, as the protesters start chanting and just making sure that people understand how unhappy they are with the failure to indict the police officer in the chokehold of Eric Garner -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much. We'll get back to Deb out in the protests right now.

So now I want to turn to what we know about the officer in this case, Daniel Pantaleo. Joining me now is Brett Klein, a civil rights attorney, won a lawsuit against New York police and specifically against Officer Pantaleo. You want, you won a suit against Pantaleo, $30,000 was the settlement. Your reaction when you heard the news today?

BRETT KLEIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I wasn't surprised at the failure of the grand jury to indict. I think it has to do with what we all thought. The district attorney's office in Staten Island works day in and day out with the police department.

They're too close, too interwoven. They protect the DA. They work in his office and to think that there would be an indictment was really a high bar.

LEMON: The circumstances of the case that you won. A car was pulled over with your client with a number of people, correct. And then Officer Pantaleo was a -- among a group of officers?

KLEIN: Correct. Pantaleo specifically accused our clients of being in possession of drugs that they found on one person claiming that the drugs were in plain view so that all in the vehicle including my clients would be linked to it.

LEMON: Is this the one where there was a strip search involved?

KLEIN: And there was a public strip search where both of my clients identified Pantaleo as being involved in those searches.

LEMON: I want to read this from Officer Pantaleo. Since I became a police officer to help people and to protect those who can't protect themselves, it is never my intention to harm anyone and I feel very bad about the death of Mr. Garner.

My family and I include him and his family and our prayers and I hope that they will accept my personal condolences for their loss. What do you say? What do you make of this?

KLEIN: I guess, he deserves some credit for being contrite, but I think it falls short of being an apology. I don't think it addresses the frustration that people feel here. There is a -- there is an open wound here between the police and the community. LEMON: I interviewed Police Commissioner Bill Bratton of New York City earlier. He said that he would make the determination about whether the officer should be fired. Do you think he should fire Officer Pantaleo?

KLEIN: I think he should. For all the good officers who do their job every day. This is an officer who blatantly violated a rule on the books for over 20 years. You just can't do a chokehold and keep your badge and your gun.

LEMON: System wide problem?

KLEIN: I do think it is a system wide problem. We know that these allegations are frequent and they are under punished and under investigated.

LEMON: Brent Klein, thank you. Appreciate you joining us here on CNN. Come back any time.

We are going to continue to follow the protests here in New York City after a grand jury deciding not to indict the officer in the death of Eric Garner back in July in Staten Island.

Also more accusers come forward for Bill Cosby, you will hear from one of them moments away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news tonight, protests on the streets of New York City in the wake of the grand jury's decision not to indict a police officer who put Eric Garner in that now infamous chokehold.

Joining me to discuss all this, my CNN colleagues, Alisyn Camerota and Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the evening, it's past your bedtime.

Very serious subject and we have been talking a lot about Ferguson. Now we have this Eric Garner thing. To most people the video tells the story, but apparently it didn't for this grand jury.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Well, look, I think the video does tell the story. The question is this was ruled a homicide. That means a death that was caused by a human being. The question for the grand jury was, did what the officer's did create probably cause that a crime was committed?

Which means did the force they use, it may have killed him, but was it justified in the circumstances and by returning no indictment, it means that they felt, whatever force was used was justifiable in this situation.

LEMON: But if you look at the video, it goes from 0 to 100 and 2 seconds.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Absolutely. It's heartbreaking because the police --

LEMON: Somebody is dying.

CAMEROTA: We are watching someone die for basically either the police said, selling cigarettes --

CUOMO: No for resisting arrest.

CAMEROTA: For being noncompliant. All he is doing and you know what he says on the video. I had forgotten this. Every time you see me, you mess with me. I am tired of it. It stops today. I am sick of it. I am minding my own business. I'm not selling anything.

So he is just saying to them. I am sick of it, guys, leave me alone. For that he is dead a few minutes later. That's the part that feels like couldn't something have happened before the end.

CAMEROTA: I think that's a legitimate question. Could they have done something else? Did they have to use the force they used? I think that's what's creating the trouble and it's bleeding into every part of the process. If you mess with the cops, it is going to be an ugly situation. That is an immutable truth. It always has been and will be.

CAMEROTA: But you are allowed to mouth off to the police.

CUOMO: You can mouth off, but when you resist and they say --

LEMON: You are allowed to.

CAMEROTA: It's not a good idea, but I am allowed to. I don't end up dead.

CUOMO: Legally, but practically you're going to have a problem.

LEMON: That's the whole difference because I feel like I am not allowed to mouth off to the police. You feel like you can?

CAMEROTA: Of course. It's not a good idea. I might get arrested. I'm not going to be killed.

CUOMO: Or worse and it's male, female, it's black, white, a lot of things come into it. We saw it in Ferguson. We are seeing it again right now. Not just about the facts on the ground. It's about the perception of the process.

Again, we don't know what happened in there. We don't know if this prosecutor really wanted it. Why does this prosecutor get to look at their own police? I think that is a legitimate question.

LEMON: Shouldn't it more transparent?

CUOMO: When you have questions about process, what do you do? You make it as transparent as possible. We have not done that yet.

LEMON: So here is the thing. Everyone has been talking about the rants, hands up or whether they should have done it and disciplined. And this has become a message that is playing across the country beyond Ferguson.

This is about Eric Garner. This is about other cases of people who feel like excessive force was used or they have been profiled by police. So now does this bolster the whole hands up?

CUOMO: How does it not? How does it not? Once again, you have a situation where people can reasonably look and say, OK, so the cops outlaw chokes for themselves. Not illegal.

LEMON: But it's not illegal.

CUOMO: It's not their policy. They went use them anymore. They're dangerous. Misuse them. I grew up learning how to choke people, jujitsu. I'm telling you, it's very dangerous mechanism. You only use it if you really know what you are doing.

So they said they're not going to use it anymore. We see someone choke a guy on video and he dies. What do you hear from the cops? We will review it after this is done. And not all chokes are the same.

It may not be the one that we don't want you using any more. You are justifying as much as you can that police do instead of enforcing the standard of how we want people --

CAMEROTA: Chris, goes to the legal and I go to the emotional, which is in both the Michael Brown case and the Eric Garner case. It escalated so quickly and there were 90 seconds where the state could have gone differently.

There were 90 seconds where maybe they did start it, maybe they were being aggressive, but if the police had done something just a little different.

Somebody would not have been dead and if that sort of -- even if the other person is the aggressor, if the police cannot escalate and back it down. We wouldn't have someone dead.

LEMON: I really have 20 seconds left. We need to figure this out obviously. It's not just from talking. There needs to be more transparency.

CUOMO: You need transparency in process so you can have confidence in the system. Our system is the best in the world, but that doesn't mean it is good enough. You have to have dialogues outside the context of anger. Charles is right about that too.

CAMEROTA: We do this on NEW DAY, just yesterday, that some states, Wisconsin is one of them, they have an outside investigative body. Not just the grand jury that's lead by the prosecutor investigates police force action and death and that helps because then you don't think the prosecutor is somehow swaying the police.

CUOMO: But you can't just talk about race when something horrible happen. You have to talk about it or you want have cool heads.

LEMON: Thank you, guys. Tough story. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news tonight, protests on the streets of New York. You hear some of the protesters sitting there. Chanting, I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

This is all over the death of Eric Garner and the grand jury's decision not to indict the officer. Meantime, in Los Angeles today, there is another law and order story to tell you about.

Three women joining forces speaking out publicly saying they were sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby. Their attorney is Gloria Allred who joins me now with one of those women. Her name is Beth Ferrier. How are you doing, Beth?

BETH FERRIER: Fine, thank you.

LEMON: Gloria, thank you both for joining us. You held an emotional press conference today with these three women including Beth who alleged they were sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby. What is your message?

GLORIA ALLRED: Well, my message is, Don, one that I am sending to Bill Cosby. And that is, it is time for justice and it's time for accountability. It's time to end the nightmare and let's provide a way for these alleged victims to have their day in court.

I propose two options to Mr. Cosby. One is, he could waive and give up and not assert the statute of limitations so many of the women across the country who have contacted me would not be able to file a lawsuit.

They could file it, but then it could be dismissed if he asserted that it was too late for them to have filed the lawsuit. That's the statute of limitations. Arbitrary time period set by law.

LEMON: Number two?

ALLRED: If he would waive that then they could have a trial and then he could testify. They could testify. A judge and jury could decide if he is telling truth or if they're telling the truth.

Number two is, he could decide, to have this done confidentiality. He could have a panel of retired judges, that's what I am proposing, they could act as arbitrators. The victims who allege that they have been the victims of sexual misconduct or drugging or Beth by Mr. Cosby could go before the retired judges in the retired judges offices and present their claims.

Mr. Cosby could present his defenses to retired judges. If the retired judges found any merit to the victims' claims they could award damages, as appropriate, as defined as appropriate in those cases. That could all be done confidentially. That would be a day in court for him.

LEMON: You know how this works. I want to hear from your client. I think it's very important to hear from Beth. Beth, with all due respect, can you please take us back to what happened with you and Bill Cosby?

FERRIER: Yes, please. It's as if it happened today. My story is one that's been need to be shared, I'm coming out, because again, it's the truth. I passed a lie detector test. I have since 1984, when I met Mr. Cosby, in New York City, I had the opportunity of not only meeting Mr. Cosby.

But also then, entering into a -- relationship with him and at that time, I never knew to the caliber of what that relationship would entail. Once it happened, again, I wanted to have a relationship actually with his producer on a show, Jeff Brown who is actually someone who I really cared for greatly because Mr. Cosby was married.

I did not feel that his advances were at that time, or any time, what I needed to do and wanted to do. But he would not let that go. And now here I am, at 55, coming forward once again, only to support something that for the last nine years has haunted me. "National Enquirer" took my story.

LEMON: The "National Enquirer" back in 2005.

FERRIER: In 2005.

LEMON: I will get to it. You were a model in the 80s. You met Bill Cosby, correct?

FERRIER: Yes, I was.

LEMON: What you are saying, you had an affair with him? And that my understanding that when you broke it off that's when the alleged assault happened?

FERRIER: Yes. That is true.

LEMON: Then you told your story, back in 2005 to the "National Enquirer." They never published your interview, what happened?

FERRIER: Well, a great question because, until this week, thank you to CNN broke the story the deposition came forth that Mr. Cosby in fact in court mentioned my name and stated that -- with the piece, that he was most concerned about my story.

Because they took my book and my lie detector test which they submitted to him and he was aware of what was going on. And they took that and nothing happened.

I never heard another word other than that "People" magazine was brave enough to then believe in another Jane Doe and myself, Barbara Bowman, Tamara Green and produced the story once the court case that day was settled out of court.

LEMON: And all of that -- all of this started to, to, roll out and here we are. But I have to ask you --

FERRIER: Yes.

LEMON: -- is it similar? Were you -- do you claim to be drugged like all the other -- did he drug you like all of the other women are saying?

FERRIER: Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

ALLRED: That was after she alleges that she terminated the relationship with him. That she then alleges that, you know, that he put something in her drink.

LEMON: Did you speak to him? So he put something in your drink and then what happened?

FERRIER: Well, as in my interview today, with Ms. Allred, it's the same thing over and over. Not a lot other than I confronted him directly, that evening or that morning, actually in Denver, Colorado, at the Oxford Hotel.

I went to him and he said to me again, you come in, lay down, lay next to me, you must have had too much off to drink. It was essentially from there that I -- broke off -- again, never saw him again until 1988.

Because you have to understand he continued to contact me, and offer me trips with, anywhere, Taos, Tahoe, and Vegas all these places if I would say no. I would say absolutely no. He called my family. He would call my mother. Call everyone trying to find me.

I just refused, but I did go and several times see him in New York on the set. At his Silver Star Studios when they moved set because, I felt that with, I had my friend with me on the set, that I could show him that I was doing very well, and I was alive and strong.

LEMON: It was easier because you had friends, safety in numbers.

FERRIER: Absolutely.

LEMON: It is still raw for you. You are welling up and it's tough for you to talk about this. You have been carrying this around for a long time?

FERRIER: My life ended the day I met Bill Cosby. It did. It did.

LEMON: Why do you say that?

ALLRED: She is an empowered woman now that she knows there are people who will listen to her. And there are those who, really, believe her and understand that she has been through a lot. She was a Jane Doe in Andrea's lawsuit, the one that was ultimately settled, the one involving Bill Cosby.

LEMON: Gloria, I can't let this go by. You said your life ended the day you met Bill Cosby. Why do you say that?

FERRIER: Because he is, I am a Christian, he is as powerful or more powerful than God and you don't, you don't mess with God so --

LEMON: He has that much power.

FERRIER: I learned my lessons I supposed. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Absolutely. So the words that you hear from these other women about these things, I have never met any of these women. I've requested that. I'm hoping that you, CNN, are brave enough.

We are here, we are proud. We are alive. We're hearing things happened in New York, about humanity and justice. We want our story heard too. We're up there in the humanity piece, please. That's why we have Gloria Allred with us, please, because no one would listen to us.

LEMON: What would you look to hear from Bill Cosby?

FERRIER: I would look to see him face to face. I would like this foundation, fund, one of the proposed pieces he will take it seriously. Not stronghold any longer and -- get serious. And take the right step.

ALLRED: All about justice, all about accountability.

FERRIER: Accountability.

ALLRED: I think it will help him to remove some of the cloud that is over his reputation and his legacy. And then, if we can go through a system of justice, the public will find out. Is he a saint or is he a sexual predator?

LEMON: Gloria Allred, thank you so much and Beth, in particular.

ALLRED: Thank you, Don.

FERRIER: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: When we come right back, more on the breaking news protest in New York City over the grand jury's decision not to indict a white police officer in the chokehold death of a black man.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This is our breaking news tonight on CNN, protests in New York City just hours after a grand jury decision not to indict an NYPD officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner. Back with me now, former NYPD detective, Tom Verni, who is also a training officer, correct?

VERNI: I was a patrol officer on the street for a number of years. I trained recruits in the academy. I was actually working for chief of community affairs, as an officer, responded to city wide incidents like this.

LEMON: It is tough for people to have sympathy for police in light of what happened.

VERNI: Yes.

LEMON: I want to take the opportunity here to get the policeman's point of view because there are people who know police have been, you know, beaten up a lot here and are not getting a fair shake. Right or wrong, whatever, but I still want to get your side here. What do you think?

VERNI: Well, I think what people, what I would like for people to try to do is take each of these incidents and their own perspective and, if possible, so facts and evidence come forth. They can better make their own opinions about this. Everyone has got a Monday morning quarterback everything.

LEMON: I think that is a given. As I sit here and I look, I just, just, an observer to most of the conversation that you guys were having. They're saying one thing. You're saying it other. No one is giving. Have you learned everything, did you learn everything here that you could an officer you could take back for training?

VERNI: Well, I think what is going to happen because of this case is that, I think a large majority of officers, what I am afraid of, they're going to second guess themselves when trying to make split second decisions in the streets, which is a very dangerous thing. One split second can make the difference of them making the decision and being on the floor themselves.

LEMON: So why do you think that would happen when it is not -- it doesn't happen very often that a police officer gets indicted. Why do you think that would happen?

VERNI: Well, because I think after a careful review of the evidence, the facts in these cases when people are brought into the grand jury. That's what they have to weigh. They can't weigh public perception. Perception is 9/10 of the law generally.

But in a court of law, grand jury, looking to indict someone, you have to be as impartial as possible and base your decision. You have to remember the officers are innocent until they're proven, guilty. So we have to give them the benefit of the doubt as would anyone else.

LEMON: Police officers are very dangerous, tough job. I would not want to be a police officer.

VERNI: I had hair when I started, 22, 23 years ago.

LEMON: Do you think, what do you think that went through the officer's mind as he was doing this?

VERNI: As he was trying to take him down or -- I think they made a decision at some point, nonverbal decision that they at some point were going to try to get him physically to the ground.

LEMON: Have you ever done a chokehold?

VERNI: I don't think in the respect that I can recall. It may have happened. I have had to wrestle people to the ground much larger. Not an easy task.

LEMON: Not in that respect.

VERNI: Not that I can recall. I don't think I did an official chokehold. I think I did -- you know, a maneuver where I tried to grab hold of someone to bring them to the ground.

LEMON: How would you have handled the situation? I know it's Monday morning quarterback?

VERNI: It's hard to say, if I had been the officer, would I have done it the same. Hypothetical, speculation, I may have done it the same. I may not have.

LEMON: Have to go. Should he be fired?

VERNI: Should he be fired, if he is found not guilty in the department trial then he is not going to be fired. If he's found guilty of any violating any procedures then he could be fired. He could have time taken away from him. It could be all kinds of punitive damage or measures taken against him.

LEMON: Thank you, Tom Verni. Appreciate it.

VERNI: Anytime.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We are days away from the worldwide broadcast of CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute honoring top ten heroes, naming CNN Hero of the Year. Right now here is an update on last year's top honoree. Anderson Cooper has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "AC360": In 17 years, Chad Pregracke and his team have picked up 8 million pounds of trash from America's rivers. Last November for his inspiring work, Chad picked up a big honor.

(on camera): The 2013 CNN Hero of the Year is Chad Pregracke.

(voice-over): One year later we caught up with him to get an inside look at what he does and how he does it. At the heart of his work is a massive 800-ton barge. He stores the huge piles of trash Chad's team collects. It looks like a floating junkyard but.

CHAD PREGRACKE, CNN HERO: Welcome to CNN cribs.

COOPER: It's also Chad's part-time home.

PREGRACKE: Pretty much everything is reclaimed or recycled out of either old buildings, old barns.

COOPER: The goal is serious, but there is definitely quirk in this work.

PREGRACKE: This would be our creepy doll collection. Why do I have it, I don't have any idea other than we fine a lot of creepy dolls.

COOPER: And trash isn't all he needs to look out for on the river.

PREGRACKE: One of the safety concerns is actually the flying carp. They really do fly out of the water at high speeds and they get rather big.

COOPER: It's all part of Chad's work, work that also includes growing trees. Chad started in 2007, but he was able to expand after being named CNN's Hero of the Year. In the end, Chad's crusade is about much more than cleaning rivers.

PREGRACKE: It's about people taking action in their own communities and that's really what it's all about. That's how you change the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: You can see more from Chad in rescuing the river, CNN Heroes special, that Friday night. On Sunday, we will announce this year's top honoree on CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute. It is a star-studded evening. Sunday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. For more information, you can go to CNN.com/heroes.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Our coverage continues now with Errol Barnett and Rosemary Church. They are joining us from the CNN center in Atlanta.