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CNN NEWSROOM

Police Search for Motive in Austin Rampage; Poll: Most Americans Say Things Are Going Well; Intra-Party Feud Developing for Democrats?; Potential Candidates Lining Up for 2016; Ray Rice Cleared to Play in the NFL; Protest March for Michael Brown Set to Begin; White House Rushing to Find New Defense Chief

Aired November 29, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: It is 9:00 on the dot. I'm Christi Paul. We are so glad to have you with us.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. You are in the "CNN Newsroom" now. And we're starting this morning with Ray Rice being cleared to return to the NFL.

PAUL: Months after his fight with his now wife brought the league's domestic abuse issues really into the national spotlight. The former Ravens running back appealed his indefinite suspension and he won which means effective immediately, right now, he is free to play football again. He's got to find a team that wants to sign him.

BLACKWELL: (INAUDIBLE) arbitrator Barbara Jones ruled that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell never should have increased Rice's original two-game suspension because he did not lie to the league about hitting Janay in that elevator.

PAUL: Joining us now by phone from New York CNN's Rachel Nichols. Rachel, thank you so much for being here. I know that you say that the decision wasn't a referendum on Ray Rice and his actions, but it was referendum against NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. Explain.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (over the phone): Yes. Well, this case was about whether - this is not about whether Ray Rice deserved to be suspended for the entire season, guys. In fact, the judge noted in her ruling that if Roger Goodell had levied the appropriate large punishment in the first place would have with stood an appeal. It's fine. Certainly what we all think was appropriate in this situation. But instead, what was being appealed here was the way Goodell handled this.

What he actually did do which as you noted was hand down a two-game suspension at first, then once the TMX video came out the public was so horrified, that's when he suspended Rice indefinitely. He not only did that. One, if you remember on the PR he blamed Rice, he said the reason that he gave Rice such a light punishment in the first place was because Ray had misled him, that he had not told him the truth about what happened in that elevator. And that's what was being discussed in this appeals process these past few weeks. There was testimony about what happened in Goodell's initial meetings with Ray. In fact, the Ravens who are supposedly on the side of the NFL, their general manager backed up Rice and said "hey, he was honest with us the whole time. If you made a mistake it's on you. It's your mistake." The appeals court basically the judge basically agreed with them. They said "Ray Rice said what he did, if Roger Goodell made the mistake in not taking it seriously enough in the first place, that's on Roger Goodell, it's not Ray Rice's fault." That's what this ruling mean.

PAUL: So, Rachel, who do you think might pick him up and do you think he'd be picked up this year?

NICHOLS: You know, it's hard to say. It's unlikely you'll see him playing for an NFL team this year. It's a hot button issue with much of the public. It's late in the season and a team wanting to work him in from a football standpoint isn't that practical. You have to think that teams will look at him next season and the type of teams, they have strong coaches, a strong locker room. We look at a guy like Ricky Incognito who was involved in the Miami Dolphins bullying scandal. We look at Michael Vick, neither of the things those guys did are in any way equivalent to what Ray Race did so we're not equating those.

But in terms of the public reaction, there is intense public reaction against those guys and intense public reaction against Rice and then teams eventually felt that they could take a look. Michael Vick despite being in prison got a second chance. He is playing now in New York. He also signed with Philadelphia. Even Rasheed Incognito, who is not in the league yet got a look in Denver and the whole reason the Broncos decided to (INAUDIBLE) is they got Peyton Manning in the locker room. Peyton will make sure that things are under control. That's the kind of team that might bring in a Ray Rice, possibly.

PAUL: And Janay Rice is talking now. Here's what she said to NBC's "Today" show. Take a listen real quick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANAY RICE, WIFE OF RAY RICE: I was furious. We came home and we didn't talk the entire ride. I didn't speak to him the entire ride home. He tried to talk to me. I didn't want to hear anything. I just knew, he hit me, and I was completely over it. I was done, didn't want to hear anything. I just didn't even want to entertain him, anything that he has to say, any explanation. Of course in the back of my mind and in my heart I knew that our relationship wouldn't be over. Because I know that this isn't us and it's not him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: So do you think that she, that Janay, can help her husband transition back into the league, Rachel?

NICHOLS: I mean I think it's important to hear from her for the public and wanting to know kind of where things stand with them. I think it's important for people to eventually hear from Ray Rice and try to get his working through this issue. I think it's important how they approach this. The public statement we heard at the very beginning of all of this from the family was very much like "hey, it was casual" and in fact, Janay Rice went up and part of a press conference and apologized for her role in being hit which was certainly not the right note for anybody and a lot of people felt like the Ravens' organization and her husband put her up to that in a way that was incredibly uncomfortable and unfortunate.

It's going to be interesting tender public steps as they go forward. People want to know are they going to become sort of leaders in this issue and representatives of how people and move past this and become better people from it and really referring to Ray Rice and how he is going to move forward and pass this.

PAUL: Yes, we just have to wait and see. Rachel Nichols, we appreciate your thoughts here. Thank you so much.

NICHOLS: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Let's go to Ferguson, Missouri now where we're just a few hours away from the start of a major protest march to honor slain teenager Michael Brown. Demonstrators are due to step off in just about four hours from Ferguson, Missouri and they are going to head more than 100 miles.

PAUL: Yes, 120, in fact. Walking over seven days to the governor's mansion in Jefferson City. There's the map. You can see the route. This event is coming just a day after protesters and officers clashed outside the police station in Ferguson. We know at least 15 were arrested.

BLACKWELL: Across the country there were other protests over the grand jury decision in Ferguson. In San Francisco demonstrators blocked streets and vandalized stores near a Christmas tree lighting ceremony and at a mall in Raleigh, 11 people reportedly were arrested trying to disrupt Black Friday shopping.

PAUL: Back in Missouri, Governor Jay Nixon announced that he is calling back lawmakers to figure out how to pay for state patrols in Ferguson.

BLACKWELL: Now on Monday Attorney General Eric Holder will visit Atlanta to kick off a series of meetings focused on policing in minority communities. Let's bring in Stephanie Elam.

Stephanie, what do the marchers who are leaving Ferguson, headed to Jefferson City, what is their messages? What do they hope to accomplish?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor and Christi. The idea behind these marches on the journey for justice as they're calling it here, they really want to keep the focus on the relationship of police brutality and also racial profiling. Those are the two main issues they are talking about. And in particular, as far as Ferguson is concerned they would like to see the removal of the police chief here, Chief Jackson. They want him gone. They say there needs to be new leadership. The people who are taking off on the march it's been cold here earlier than it should be. Colder than you should expect. So they are going to be asking them to prepare for tat cold with the warm shoes and warm socks and lip balm and all those things. I've been out here almost every hour of the day and I can tell you, it's really cold over night.

So they are going on this march and hoping that other people in other communities will do the same thing. And do miles for Michael and do this walk miles where they are and pledging their time. You know, some people are saying that they plan to do the 120 miles themselves, some say they are going to do 18 miles one for each year that Mike Brown was alive. Victor and Christi.

BLACKWELL: Stephanie, it's important to say that although these protests are continuing, and I've heard you say it several times this morning, these are not violent. We're not seeing what we saw on Monday night at the end of the week.

ELAM: No. We're not. It's a different tone. And we've been seeing protests throughout the time. It hasn't just started again on Monday. They were actually out here before Monday. They said they would be out here even after that. What is interesting to note about the clash that we saw last night of those 16 people that were arrested, only one of them was from Missouri and from a nearby town through Ferguson. Everybody else was coming from other states, and that's part of the reason why some people in this community are fatigued with the attention here.

They're saying people are coming from outside of the community, they're not actually of Ferguson. But you do talk to people who say "yes, we're fatigued with that but at the same time, we want the movement to continue because we need a change, how things are done and this relationship with police. We want to make it healthier." So you do hear both sides but definitely, it is a nod to what you are seeing throughout the country that these marches are happening all over the place. Some of the folks in Ferguson would like those people to go back to marches in their own community.

BLACKWELL: All right. Stephanie Elam, braving the cold for us in Ferguson, Missouri. Stephanie, thanks.

PAUL: OK. And since we're speaking about Ferguson, let's talk about Officer Darren Wilson. Because he is still facing a federal investigation. We're going to dig into that.

BLACKWELL: And six years, three defense secretaries, now looking for a fourth. But does anyone want that position? Chuck Hagel's job.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Thirteen minutes after the hour. People in Cleveland gathered for a meeting on gun violence and police relations after a police officer fatally shot a 12-year-old boy. This happened last weekend. Police earlier released surveillance video of the shooting. Now this shows an officer shoot Tamir Rice, two seconds, two seconds after the patrol car pulled up near him. Police have also released recordings of the 911 call and the recording of the police dispatchers.

PAUL: In Ferguson, meanwhile, a grand jury of course decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson for shooting Michael Brown but investigations are continuing as we speak here at the federal level. Let's bring in HLN's legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. Joey, so good to see you again.

First of all, could another grand jury take up this case or is it over as far as that's concerned?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Christi, it's really not. And of course we had this grand jury that considered 60 witnesses' testimony in addition to 70 hours and they made a big conclusion. That conclusion was that Michael Brown certainly his shooting according to them was justified based upon the imminent threat posed to Darren Wilson and the fact that Darren Wilson was in reasonable fear and acted reasonably.

However, there have been various discrepancies that have come out, Christi, from that grand jury investigation. One of the most compelling being the wrongful instruction given to that grand jury. That is a legal instruction that relates to fleeing felons and what it says is that if a felony, person who commits a felony is fleeing that person could be subjected to deadly force by the police. That's the jury instruction that was given to that grand jury.

However, that was from 1985 ruling and Supreme Court overturned that and basically said that an officer can indeed shoot and kill a fleeing felon but they have to be in imminent fear for their life. So that was not clarified for the grand jury until much later in the proceedings and so it affects it. In addition to that, there are a number of other questions in terms of why Darren Wilson was permitted to leave the scene, having washed his hands and voucher that his own firearm, this question as to whether a DNA tests were not done on that gun, finger print tests were not done on that gun, medical examiner, why there was a preoccupation by the grand jury questioners that is the district attorney with this issue of marijuana and this indication that there might have been waxing which is putting marijuana in its purest form and inhaling it. How did that affect Michael Brown's aggression.

So there's a variety of questions that are being raised out there, having with the grand jury testimony having been released. And that certainly could affect the way that this is viewed and whether justice was done or not done in this case. That could of course then affect whether new grand jury is empanelled and here's the evidence (INAUDIBLE).

PAUL: OK. So let's talk about the two federal investigations we now are still ongoing. First of all, the civil rights probe underway. Secondly, an investigation into possible misconduct by the Ferguson Police Department. How strong do you think both of those cases are?

JACKSON: Sure. Well, as it relates to the first case, Christi, let's talk about the civil rights charge. In order to establish a civil rights violation you have to establish that there was an intentional deprivation of the rights of Michael Brown by Darren Wilson and in order to show that, you have to show that Darren Wilson acted with admus (ph), with evilness, with wickedness, with ill will. And so it's a very high bar and a very high standard to prove. And based upon a grand jury having been empanelled not even finding probable cause to believe there was a commission of a crime, there is a real issue as to whether or not that civil rights violation by the federal government would be viable. And so we'll wait and see what other evidence they uncover, that is the federal government, Christi, as they unravel this grand jury testimony, read it and digest it all.

The second issue of course the feds are pursuing is the issue of a pattern and practice violation. That is what were the past patterns and practices of the Ferguson Police Department. Were there any discriminatory types of behavior or protocols, or policies, we don't know that to be the case, that's what the subject of the investigation is. And depending on what that shows we'll see what the federal government finds.

And then finally, Christi, we know there to be potentially a wrongful death lawsuit in the works by the family seeking justice in that regard to sue for monetary damages arguing that Darren Wilson was at least negligent in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

PAUL: And how strong do you think that civil suit will be?

JACKSON: Well, you know, Christi, since that is predicated upon negligence it's a lot stronger and here's why. When you look just to backtrack at the federal civil rights criminal charge, I said it has to be intentional. You can't just show recklessness that you acted irresponsibly, as Darren Wilson did, or he acted negligently. You have to show intent with that civil rights violation the federal government would pursue.

However, when it comes to wrongful death, Christi, you just have to show that there was some carelessness, that's what negligence is. So as a result of saying "listen, he was negligent, he acted in a way that was not proper, since it's a lower bar, lower, standard and then, of course, you just have to show by a preponderance of the evidence is it more likely than not that he acted negligently Darren Wilson, was not was it beyond a reasonable doubt. So we'll see how that proceeds in a civil court of law.

PAUL: All righty. Joey Jackson, your perspective is always appreciated. Thank you so much.

JACKSON: Appreciate you, Christi. Have a great day. Thank you.

PAUL: You too. Thank you.

All righty. Election season, it may have just ended but the talk about 2016 only starts up.

BLACWELL: Already gearing up. We'll tell you what voters have to say about their top picks for candidates. However, before we get to 2016, President Obama still has a lot on his plate including finding a new defense secretary. We'll talk about who could replace Chuck Hagel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Well, the White House is scrambling to find someone to replace defense secretary Chuck Hagel. He resigned this week. The reports are that he was pushed out by the administration.

PAUL: Already two people though have turned down the job, even before being offered the position.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Erin McPike is live at the White House. Erin, how is the White House, the search now for the new defense secretary, how is it going?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, it's not going all that well, as yet you may remember when President Obama first took office he talked about creating a team of rivals. Well, Chuck Hagel who is a Republican may well be really the last vestige of that.

In the last several months as the White House tried to fill out cabinet positions after people have left and resigned, they had to really widen the searches and it may be that they are concentrating even more decision-making power back into the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECREATRY: New leadership should take over at the Pentagon and for the last two years the president's term, that's what's going to happen.

MCPIKE (voice-over): At least that's how the administration tells it officially. President Obama and outgoing Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel agreed on that. But it has led to more second guessing of the president's management style. And even late night comics are taking shots.

JIMMY FALON, HOST "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALON": The rumors at Washington this week that Joe Biden was not happy with the way the White House forced the resignation of defense secretary Chuck Hagel.

MCPIKE: That narrative may be making the president's challenge of replacing Hagel even tougher.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I will always give you my honest and most informed counsel.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: He served two combat tours in Vietnam.

MCPIKE: When President Obama was hunting for a new veterans affairs secretary this spring after Eric Shinseki stepped down amid the VA hospital fiasco, there was no immediate short list because the White House wasn't sure what kind of background would be best for the job.

A new attorney general to succeed Eric Holder this fall? His original choices deemed too controversial to pass the Senate. So he settled on little known Loretta Lynch. Now heading into a difficult winter, the White House's early hopes to head the defense department, Rhode Island Senator Jack Reed and former defense department undersecretary Michelle Flournoy said no thanks even before getting the offer.

Number one on the next to do defence chief's to do list, carrying out the president's hotly debated strategy against ISIS.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: They are going to have to send more, have air controllers on the ground. They're going to have to have special forces people. We're going to have to have trainers.

MCPIKE: But the big complaint of defense secretaries past, the Obama White House micromanage it. Now topping the revised list, low key but experienced Homeland Security secretary Jay Johnson who has experience dealing with ISIS on the domestic front. And the former number two at the Pentagon, Ash Carter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE: The White House does finally settle on someone and that person says yes, he or she will have to go through a lengthy and perhaps difficult confirmation process and that probably won't even begin until January or February once there is a new Congress and a Republican-controlled Senate. Christi and Victor.

BLACKWELL: Erin McPike at the White House for us. Erin, thank you so much.

PAUL: Thanks, Erin. A lot of people say the midterm elections were a message to Democrats that Americans just aren't happy so. What do you make of this? A majority of Americans say in a new poll, the things are looking up. Our political experts are having a hay day with this one. They're coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It is the bottom of the hour. Meaning 29 minutes past. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you this morning.

PAUL: Absolutely. You know, police are trying to figure out why a gunman targeted a string of government buildings in the heart of Austin downtown area.

BLACKWELL: Now, the suspects firing more than 100 rounds at the federal courthouse, the police headquarters, tried to set the Mexican consulate on fire early Friday. Incredibly no one was injured. The gunman is dead but why he did this, I mean, this is still a mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): This is the Austin, Texas Police Department headquarters, riddled with bullets, shot by a lone gunman, according to police 49-year-old Larry McQuilliams now dead. Police say McQuilliams lived in Austin and had a criminal record. He began his rampage, officers say, minutes after bars closed early Friday morning, 2:22 a.m., emergency dispatchers are inundated with calls, reports of gun shots, lots of them.

DISPATCHER: They are advising someone in a white Toyota Highlander possibly firing an assault rifle, sounds like a machine gun.

BLACKWELL: Officers start the search as the shooting continues.

2:28, Reports that McQuilliams is shooting at the new federal court house, the Mexican consulate building, and the Austin Police Department headquarters where at 2:33 a sergeant who is securing forces with the department's mounted unit hears the shots and then sees McQuilliams shooting.

CHIEF ART ACEVEDO, AUSTIN POLICE: As he held two horses with one hand he discharged one round, at least one round with the single-handed shot.

BLACKWELL: Police say McQuilliams falls to the ground though the medical examiner will have to determine whether it's the officer's shot or a self-inflicted shot that killed him.

As officers rushed to McQuilliams, they notice suspicious cylinders, possibly explosive devices inside his van.

ACEVEDO: As the officers were dragging the suspect away from the vehicle, getting ready to render aid, they noticed a -- some type of vest on the suspect. The officers having seen these suspicious items in the vehicle and now this vest were unable to determine whether or not that was simply a protective vest or potentially IED suicide type vest that is known to be used around the world.

BLACKWELL: 2:40 a.m., the bomb squad arrives, then SWAT, and after an extensive search they find no explosive devices. However, police say McQuilliams fired more than 100 rounds within ten minutes and ignited a small propane tank, the type often used by campers outside the consulate. Fortunately, the fire was extinguished without causing damage to the building.

ACEVEDO: If you look at a person shooting at the Mexican Consulate, then the federal building, there is a pretty -- this is all speculation but when you look at the national debate right now about immigration, that certainly comes to mind.

BLACKWELL: Police believe McQuilliams acted alone and are scouring any social media accounts to confirm a motive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Also, police have searched McQuilliams' home. They thought that there would be maybe some bombs there, some threat at his apartment but they found no explosives. The officer who shot him, he is on paid administrative leave which is customary in shootings involving police.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: You know, for the first time in nearly eight years, most people believe things are going well in the country. BLACKWELL: Well, now, it's only a slight majority -- 52 percent, but

it's the first time since January 2007, that more than 50 percent of respondents to the CNN poll answered positively to the question, how well are things going in the country today. That's up 11 points in the past year.

PAUL: So, let's talk about it with Republican strategist and senior director of Blackrock Group, Lisa Boothe, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Good morning, ladies. So good to have you here.

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good morning.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

PAUL: Lisa, so you heard the numbers, right? Which is they kind of fly in the face of the results from the midterm elections with Republicans now in control of both houses. So, if people thought that we were headed in the right direction, Lisa, why the change?

BOOTHE: Well, I think you're absolutely right, you know, it's always positive news if Americans feel more comfortable about the direction the country is heading. But that doesn't mean we're on the right trajectory as evidenced by the midterm elections. I mean, the midterm elections were actually a referendum on President Obama and Democrats failed policy and lack of leadership on issues like Obamacare, ISIS and the economy.

And what Republicans did is messaged on, you know, a message of opportunity, a message of changing the trajectory of the country, a message of a new direction and new leadership and as a result, you know, Republicans have a larger majority in the House, the most Americans have seen in their lifetime and we're on track to pick up nine seats in the Senate.

PAUL: So, Maria, I want to ask you about something that Senator Chuck Schumer said earlier. He blamed Obamacare, basically, for the midterm loss. I want to quote him. He said, quote, "To aim a huge change in mandate at a small percentage of the electorate made no political sense. So, when Democrats focused on health care, the average middle class person thought the Democrats are not paying enough attention to me."

What do you say to that, Maria?

CARDONA: I don't agree with that. And I agree with Leader Pelosi who had a response when she said, actually, Democrats are focusing on the economy and going back to the poll that you just mentioned, Christi, you know, it is unfortunate because what happens is there is always a lapse between the time when things start getting better with all of the data and we've been seeing the positive data for quite a while now, where you have 55 straight months of private sector job creation, you have the largest GDP growth in the last quarter that we've seen in 10 years, and now, what we see is that Americans are really starting to feel that. What we saw in the midterm elections is that after so much of a hoopla

from Republicans in terms of focusing on Obamacare and Obamacare and Obamacare, very few campaigns were about Obamacare. And in fact, in polls you see the majority of the people actually do like the specifics of the Affordable Care Act and don't want to see it repealed. Perhaps might want to see things changed in it a little bit but they understand that a lot of Americans who didn't have health care protections, 14 million, actually do have it now is a good thing for the economy.

So, I think Democrats actually needed to focus more on the positive economic news that has been coming out in the past year or so. And maybe the American people would have felt this change a little earlier on.

PAUL: Well, Lisa, Maria mentioned it. Nancy Pelosi said, "We came here to do a job, not keep a job. There are 14 million reasons why that's wrong," responding to Schumer and what he had to say. And of course in the 14 million she was referencing people who now have health care coverage.

What are you saying? I mean, is there an intraparty feud going on here with Democrats?

BOOTHE: Well, I think there is to a certain extend. Pelosi is right, a lot of people lost their job as a result of Obamacare.

And, look, Senator Chuck Schumer's comments are both ironic and also disingenuous because it was Senator Chuck Schumer in 2010, he was the one that said that Obamacare would be a positive thing for middle class families, he also said it would be a liability to vote against Obamacare. But in fact, it was a liability for the Democrats who voted for Obamacare as evidenced by the 2014 midterm election.

And look, middle class families aren't better off. If you look at, you know, insurance premiums are set to increase by double-digits in 2015. And Americans have soundly rejected Obamacare repeatedly in the 2014 and 2010 elections.

As Senator Schumer pointed out the 85 percent of Americans were happy with their health care before Obamacare and also only 5 percent of voters lacked insurance before the implementation of Obamacare. This isn't what Americans wanted.

PAUL: OK. All right. Ladies, stick around.

I know, Maria shaking her head. She's got more to say. You're going to get your chance.

They're staying with us over the break. Because you know, we're turning attention to 2016. They have a lot to say.

BLACKWELL: Certainly. There is a poll that shows only one Republican hopeful can beat Hillary Clinton one-on-one, according to this poll. A look at the deep pool of GOP candidates and who could a presidential dark horse. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: I don't know if you look at the calendar. And, yes, it's two years until the next presidential election. But we're getting a glimpse of who could be squaring for their party's nomination?

BLACKWELL: In a new Quinnipiac University Poll, Mitt Romney tops a crowded field, Mitt Romney. These are the possible hopefuls there. He had 19 percent of the vote, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush finished second. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie tied for third, with conservative activist and neurosurgeon, Dr. Ben Carson, finishing up the list with 8 percent as well.

Now, most political experts agree the GOP will likely face off with Hillary Clinton.

So, let's talk about this. Who possibly on the GOP side is going to end up with the nomination?

Let's bring back Lisa Boothe and Maria Cardona.

Lisa, I want to start with you. Now, you'll remember that Ann Romney said she was done, done, done with the presidential bid. It's not going to happen in 2016. Then, on CNN a few days later said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN ROMNEY, MITT ROMNEY'S WIFE: You never do say never. But you know, that's not where we are. Mitt is supporting candidates running in this 2014 cycle. And, you know, we're going to stay involved. We are so involved in this. We're so excited about this.

I have other things I'm working on that I can't wait to talk about maybe in a few months. But it's -- you know, we have -- we're concerned and we are still going to be involved but not in that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right. So, went from done, done, done, to never say never.

Lisa, I mean, you know, it's happened before. Reagan ran in '68, in '76, of course, he won in 1980. Could the third time be a charm for Mitt Romney? Moods change, people change.

BOOTHE: You are absolutely right. You know, who knows? Maybe third time's a charm. I know that they indicated and said publicly they are not intending to run. But, who know that will change?

But I think what's interesting with Mitt Romney is, you know, a lot of the things he said during the 2012 election, you know, even things that he was criticized for ended up being true, particularly with foreign policy. You know, he was the one that said that Russia was one of America's top geopolitical foes and ended up being true. You know, Russia invaded Crimea and there's heightened tensions with Ukraine. And so, he was able to have the foresight to see that and something that President Obama was absolutely oblivious to.

I think also, you know, after the Netflix documentary that kind of humanized Mitt Romney and Americans got to know him better so. So, maybe third time's a charm. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

BLACKWELL: Maria, how about it? Although, if you look back at the 2012 polls everybody got the chance at the top, we've seen in 2012, everybody literally who was on one of those debate stages was the front-runner at some point. Mitt Romney, 2016?

CARDONA: Yes. You know what, I hope so because frankly, I think it would be a doomed campaign from the beginning.

And I'm sorry, Lisa, but you know, Russia is still not the United States' number one geopolitical foe. So, Romney said that in 2012. It was untrue then, it remains untrue now.

And frankly, if he does run, can you imagine the kinds of ads that the Democrats would run in terms of self deportation, in terms of the 47 percent. People have not forgotten about that. And, so, I think that, you know, if Republicans want him to run, then frankly they are in a much worse position going into the 2016 election than we ever thought.

A second thing I think Republicans need to think about, as high as they are out of the midterm elections, let's really put this in perspective. The midterm electorate was a lot smaller, 36 percent of Americans came out to vote in the midterm elections, a lot whiter, a lot older.

Going into 2016, the electorate is going to be a lot younger, a lot more diverse, a lot more women, and a lot more people are actually going to come out to vote. That still is an electorate that Republicans have had a hard time trying to figure out how to expand and I don't think they are in a better place today than they were the day after they lost in 2012.

BLACKWELL: So, most people expect that if Hillary Clinton, former secretary of state, if she runs, she will be the nominee. Let's look at the head-to-heads from the Quinnipiac poll.

Lisa, let's talk about these. We've got Romney matching up best against Hillary Clinton, narrowly defeating her 45-44. But you see double digit undecided there. Secretary Clinton beats Christie, Paul, Bush, all other Republicans.

Who do you think, Lisa? Even if Romney does not get -- let's say Romney does not go back in as Ann Romney suggested. Who has the best chance against Hillary Clinton?

BOOTHE: I think we have a deep bench of senators and governors who would be great candidates.

But I want to talk about Hillary Clinton. I don't think she is inevitable. In 2008, she was inevitable, and look how well that turned out for her. I think Hillary Clinton has inability to connect with people and a propensity to offend.

I mean, if you take her book tour, for example, she stepped in it with comments like we are dead broke when we left White House, and also comments about we're not truly well off. She's got this elitist and out of touch attitude that I think completely undercuts and undermines, you know, a populist narrative that she is going to push.

So, I don't think Hillary Clinton is a strong candidate. You look at the poll we're talking about here, Mitt Romney is actually leading her in the poll so she can be defeated. I don't think she is as strong a candidate as everyone wants to make her out to be.

BLACKWELL: Maria, Lisa makes a good point. Two years before the 2008 election, we were all doing Rudy Giuliani v. Hillary Clinton polls. What about it? Is there a Democrat who you see maybe could be the dark horse as we saw Barack Obama who went on a book tour and I remember, David Gergen said if he is going to run, he's got to run now.

CARDONA: Right. I actually don't see anybody else right now.

Having said that, Lisa's right, nothing is inevitable in politics. We know that a day is a lifetime in politics and anything can happen.

And, frankly, as a Hillary Clinton supporter, I hope that we don't see her as inevitable. It didn't work for her in 2008. That is absolutely right. I actually think that she could be a much better candidate were she to have a primary from the Democratic side.

And so, I think going into this, though, what we have to remember is that Hillary Clinton has worked her whole life in terms of the issues that are the most important for Americans going into 2016. Issues about the economy, issues about middle class voters, issues about women and children and girls and how do you get families to really focus on living a better life in this country.

I think hands down going into the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton is the one that will speak best to those kinds of hopes and those kinds of preoccupations that still today Americans wake up worried about. And again, if you pair her up with somebody like Mitt Romney I think it's hands down the person who middle class families will see is the person who will fight for them every day and who actually understands what they go through every day and that person would be Hillary Clinton if she decides to run.

BLACKWELL: All right. Maria Cardona, Lisa Boothe, always good to have you.

BOOTHE: Thank you for having us.

CARDONA: Thank you guys.

PAUL: Thank you, ladies.

All righty. We know the holidays are here. And we know we spend a lot of money at that time, right? Going to the movie theater, that's not cheap. Well, we have an expert who is going to tell us, here are the films you need to hit, here are the ones she thinks we might need to skip.

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BLACKWELL: It is a big weekend at the theaters. I mean, of course you and your family that you want to go see the hot movie, the must-sees of the holiday weekend.

PAUL: They cost much. A lot of money.

BLACKWELL: They do.

PAUL: Once you add a couple kids, too. So what we're spending on what you might want to think about skipping.

Kim Serafin, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly" is joining us now.

Good morning to you, Kim.

KIM SERAFIN, SR. EDITOR, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Good morning. How you doing?

PAUL: Good, thank you.

OK. Give us the top three that we should see, first of all.

SERAFIN: Well the number one movie last weekend and it will be this weekend again too is "The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part One." That is a great movie. It is not doing quite as well as "Catching Fire" did which opened the same time last year but it is still a great movie. Jennifer Lawrence is fantastic.

And this is really the setup. It's part one. Part two opens next year and it is kind of the finale obviously to "The Hunger Games" movie.

So, go see this. There is a lot of action. Again not as much as "Catching Fire", not as much as the first one. But still a great movie. Worth spending your money on.

BLACKWELL: So, there is also "The Theory of Everything". And I hear great things about Eddie Redmayne's portrayal of Stephen Hawking.

SERAFIN: This is amazing. I love this movie. Yes, "The Theory of Everything", of course, about Stephen Hawking. Not so much about the science of it, really about his first marriage that lasted 30 years and shows the progression of his relationship with his first wife Jane from college years to getting older.

But Eddie Redmayne, he hits Stephen Hawking spot on. It is really incredible. I think he is the front runner for the Oscar for best actor this year. He is really amazing in this role and it's a great film too.

So, definitely were seeing. It expanded its screens this week.

PAUL: And I understand that you are a big fan of the "Penguins of the Madagascar"? SERAFIN: Well, who isn't a fan of the "Penguins of Madagascar"? If you

know the "Madagascar" franchise, the penguins are always kind of the scene stealers of the movie. So, now they have their own spinoff and this is a fun movie for the family. It's silly fun. It's a lot of happiness and just frenetic energy.

John Malkovich is the villain. He's Dave the Octopus. And Benedict Cumberbatch, he does one of the voices. But this is just a fun movie. And the nice is people love it, but parents will understand and some of their own kind of fun, because there are some pop culture references in it.

PAUL: So, those are the ones we should see. You suggest skipping "Horrible Bosses 2." Why?

SERAFIN: You know, you wanted this to be so good because the first was funny and raunchy humor and it's a great cast. So, you have this great cast. You have Jason Bateman and Jason Sudeikis and Charlie Day and Jennifer Aniston, Kevin Spacey. So, you have this great cast, the cast that was in the first one.

It just doesn't hit the same mark. I mean, it's actually a lot of same jokes but it's just not quite of funny. And you always run the risk when you have horrible in your title that the reviews are going to use the word "horrible." And they did, and horrible was kind of the nicest things.

PAUL: Oh gosh!

BLACKWELL: It's like hangover all over again.

PAUL: Yes, exactly.

And last and not least, "Dumb and Dumber", you say not -- don't bother?

SERAFIN: Look, it did well at the box office. It came at number one the weekend it opened. Really not great reviews though a lot of people have been waiting 20 years for this movie to have the sequel. So, you know, you might have been a fan of the first one and you want to go for the nostalgic factor. But this is not a great time for the comedies.

Go see these Oscar movies. Go see the big movies like "Hunger Games", or even go back and see "Interstellar" if you haven't seen it yet or see it the second time.

PAUL: All right. Good to know.

Kim Serafin, thanks for the heads up.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Kim.

All right. We've got a lot more to tell you about. So much happening this morning.

PAUL: Next hour of NEWSROOM starts after a quick break. Stay close.

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