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Officer Darren Wilson Breaks His Silence; Tensions Flare Across the Nation; Changes for Ferguson's Future; Interview with Rep. Karen Bass

Aired November 26, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go with the five things you need to know for your new day.

A second night of protesting in Ferguson. Forty-four arrests. Demonstrators, as you see there, setting a police car on fire. Meanwhile, Officer Darren Wilson breaking his silence, insisting he has a clear conscience after shooting Michael Brown.

People heading out for Thanksgiving are in for a messy ride. A monster storm, already set to slam the East Coast, bringing rain and snow, prompting airlines to already scrap hundreds of flights on the busiest travel day of the year.

A senior leader of ISIS killed in an air strike in Iraq northwest of Baghdad. This as two Minnesota men are charged with conspiring to help ISIS and join the terrorist group. One of them remains at large.

Former Undersecretary of Defense Michele Flournoy is taking herself out of the running for the top Pentagon post due to family issues. She was seen as a leading candidate to replace outgoing Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

An annual holiday tradition at the White House. Oh, yes, the president will pardon a lucky 50-pound bird from Ohio that will be the national Thanksgiving turkey. You see two there because the president gets to choose between two birds. Both will avoid the roaster or the fryer, Alisyn, in this case, maybe at your house.

You know we always update those five things to know, so be sure to visit newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That turkey was bigger than the toddler.

PEREIRA: I know.

CAMEROTA: Delicious.

Meanwhile, Officer Darren Wilson is speaking out for the very first time since he shot Michael Brown. And we are digging deeper into his account of what he says happened. What would he do differently? We'll discuss with our legal experts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: The explanation from Officer Darren Wilson has done little to silence critics of the way he handled that encounter, that fateful encounter with teenager Michael Brown. So now that we've heard Officer Wilson's side in detail, does it support his decision to fire on that unarmed teenager?

CAMEROTA: Here to dissect this with us is Mark O'Mara, he's CNN's legal analyst and criminal defense attorney.

Good morning, Mark.

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: OK. So this was Officer Darren Wilson's first sit-down interview last night. Let me play you the portion where he is asked if he could have done anything differently that fateful day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything you could have done differently that would have prevented that killing from taking place?

DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON POLICE OFFICER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing?

WILSON: No. If he would have gotten on the sidewalk, and followed Dorian Johnson to the sidewalk, I probably never would have never noticed the cigarillos (ph). I would have gone and got lunch and continued my day. He would have continued his.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of the witnesses have said they thought you were out of control. That somehow you had snapped.

WILSON: Uh-huh. That would be incorrect. There was never -- the only emotion I'd ever felt was fear and then it was survival and training.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're absolutely convinced, when you look through your heart and your mind, that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?

WILSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No question.

WILSON: No question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Mark, to our ears, he sounds so certain that you can imagine why the grand jury believed him. What does it sound like to your ears?

O'MARA: Well, he may well be using that perspective of things have convinced the grand jury of his view that day. But, look, what the answer should have been, I would have done anything, everything to change the outcome. I think that would maybe have sounded to Wilson as a self-indictment to say that something else could have been done, but he took a life. And anything that you could have done to avoid that should have been the answer he had given.

PEREIRA: Mark, it's so interesting to hear your perspective as a former defense attorney. This is such an interesting conversation to have. I'm curious what your other impressions are, and what you might have counseled Officer Wilson ahead of giving this public interview.

O'MARA: Well, and he -- he needs to speak from the heart. The first thing that I would have had him say, and he said this in the interview, was to apologize for the tragedy that he caused. It may well have been necessary in his mind, justified, or just what happened, but he has to acknowledge both the tragedy to the Brown family and also that he is now in the middle of this firestorm of the whole, you know, again renewed perspective of how blacks and cops interact on the street. And it really could be used as a positive, if there's any (INAUDIBLE), a positive result from this is a review of that problem.

CAMEROTA: Mark, just one hour ago, Michael Brown's parents were on a morning show, and they were asked to respond to Officer Wilson's interview where he said that he wouldn't have done anything differently. Here was their response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: He didn't do what he had to do. He did what he wanted to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he wanted to do?

MCSPADDEN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You (ph) think that he wanted to kill your son?

MCSPADDEN: I don't think he wanted to kill my son, but he wanted to kill someone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to kill someone.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., MICHAEL BROWN'S FATHER: At the end of his statement he said he'll do it again. So --

MCSPADDEN: His conscience is clear.

BROWN: His conscience is clear.

MCSPADDEN: How could your conscience be clear after killing somebody, even if it was an accidental death?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Look, Mark, to your point, the way he phrased it is not quelling their -- anything. Their emotional -- their raw emotions about this. What should he have said to the parents?

O'MARA: Well, again, I think he can't not explain away his perspective that day. But if we really looked at what was happening with him and what was happening with Michael, they were not thinking clearly, either one of them. We hope that the training helped, but you have adrenalin, testosterone, fear, going on on both sides. What he should have said was, it was a tragedy. I don't think it was - I think it was unavoidable based upon the moment I had to make that decision, but I wish anything else would have happened to avoid it.

PEREIRA: And apologies when I said you were a former criminal defense attorney.

O'MARA: Yes, I was going to say.

PEREIRA: I retired you far too prematurely.

O'MARA: Yes. I don't know why.

PEREIRA: That's because you're down there in beautiful Orlando. I guess that must have been what it is.

Listen, we've seen the photo evidence of Wilson's injuries, we've heard his testimony about how he says the chain of events went that he sustained those injuries. When you listen to this violence that he describes and see the evidence, do you feel the prosecutor should have pushed harder on him during that portion?

O'MARA: I think he should have cross-examined him more for a couple of reasons. No reason not to. He knows how to do it. And also knowing full well that this was going to be reviewed for years, why not take the opportunity to insulate himself even further from the fact that he may have been giving Wilson an easy ride. Go after him on some of the stuff like the Hulk Hogan thing. Just - I understand Wilson went through a trauma himself, but if we're going to review it, lay it all out as best you can, and that wasn't done in the non-cross examination of Wilson.

CAMEROTA: Mark O'Mara, thanks so much for joining us. Have a nice holiday weekend.

PEREIRA: Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to Mark.

O'MARA: Enjoy yours. Yes, the same.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

So when all is said and done, what will it take to help Ferguson heal? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You are watching NEW DAY. Tensions flaring up across the nation once again, and probably more than ever if you're talking about across the nation. Protesters expressing anger over the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. The officer speaking out for the first time amid what's going on here, the unrest, but many in Ferguson don't buy that chain of events that he has laid out in his account.

So, where does the damaged community go from here? It's a question everybody's been asking, and the answers are elusive. Let's try right now. We have CNN political commentator LZ Granderson and Congresswoman Karen Bass, she's also a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. Thanks to both of you for being here with us. LZ, I'll start with you. When you look at it, the issues are so entrenched, they are not new, and that's why we're seeing them echoed across the country. What do we do here? The grand jury has spoken. The prosecutor could still bring charges, probably won't. Where do we go?

LZ GRANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the focus should now turn to the fact that there's such a lack of transparency in both what happened with the grand jury, but also what happened with the police officer and Michael Brown. There's been a huge push, and I support this push, to put body cameras on police officers so that we can get rid of some of this, you know, cloudiness about what actually occurred, and we have it documented on video. And also, it's important that we change the law so that these body cameras are required to be on at all times. Right now, if you have a body camera, police officers are turning it on at their discretion. We need to eliminate that part of it and make it a requirement like a badge.

CUOMO: Because we thought this was going to happen with dash cameras, and some don't have them.

GRANDERSON: Exactly.

CUOMO: Like, this car didn't have it, wasn't on, whatever. Mick?

PEREIRA: Bring in Congresswoman Karen Bass who's joining us from Los Angeles, Chris, because I think this is a really important conversation to have with you. Congresswoman, you've been a huge advocate for our young people, and I think this is specifically a question when you hear so many people in the black community, and our young people really frustrated with the outcome of this case, feeling justice wasn't served and the value of the African-American men in America is in question. How do we address that? What's the first step we need to take to shift that?

REP. KAREN BASS, (D) CALIFORNIA: Well, you know, I mean, I absolutely think it begins with dialogue, but I just have to tell you that my heart goes out to the Brown family as they prepare for Thanksgiving without their son. And I think that we have to do a short-term and a long-term strategy, and we really need to begin to come to grips with this in our country, because you can go down a long list of these cases, and you know that there have been many in recent time, and there was a 12-year-old child that was killed just a few days ago in New York. I believe he had a toy gun.

So, you can rattle off these instances, and one of the most important thing that I think people need to do who are not African-American, who are not Latino, is need to just take a deep breath for one minute and say maybe I don't understand. Maybe there's something going on here that I need to look at, because you know, all of the polling shows the sharp divide. Latinos, African-Americans see the world one way, non- Latino and African-American see the world another way. But we need a long-term strategy. And Ferguson, they most definitely need to diversify the leadership of that city, the police department, the city council, and so we need to look at things both in the short-term and the long-term.

CAMEROTA: All right. We have a lot of social media that has reacted, obviously, to this story. Let me read you just a sampling of a couple that have come in. Alicia Gaitano (ph) says, it isn't just talking to your kids about how to dress. How about talking to them about abiding by the law? And then Michelle B Bolden (ph) writes, how about the media back off? Maybe your buildup of this horrible mess could have been avoided. The coverage and the cameras have created a monster. Yes, Congresswoman, what is your reaction?

BASS: I want to say something about abiding by the law, because, you know, the officer talked about how he saw the cigarettes or whatever that Michael Brown had taken. You know, since when do we not have trials? Since when do we execute people? I mean, the way that the information was leaked from day one of this case, intentionally leaking the information about the video. It's terrible if he committed a crime before this happened, but even if he did commit a crime, is a police officer supposed to be the jury and the executioner on the spot? So, you know, it's that kind of mentality that we really need to begin to look at.

CUOMO: All right. Let's look at the media part of this one. I have to tell you, I don't feel it. I get criticism of the media, I think people make a mistake seeing the media as a monolith, it isn't. You have to judge every outlet, every journalist on their own merits. But, you know, what do you think the experience is with what happens when something goes wrong and there's nobody there to shine a light on it? Do you think that usually that increases the chances that the right thing happens?

GRANDERSON: It always depends upon who is upset about what's being covered and what's not being covered. You know, if you think about politics. We've both been involved in politics. When the media doesn't cover something in the way that it's supposed to in regards to President Obama, we hear it from one side of the nation. We covered too much of what looks like in favor of President Obama, we hear from the other side of the nation and this is no different.

The media's job is not to create monsters, and we don't create monsters. Our job is to show you the monster and allow you, the public, to decide how you want to deal with that monster.

CUOMO: Right.

GRANDERSON: Blaming us for exposing something is not going to solve that problem.

CUOMO: And, you know, we're always talking about political correctness. It seems the media is one of the last places you can go and just bash all you want, all across the rage, and it's still okay. But, you know what? It's also a little dangerous because it's one of the best freedoms we have here, guys.

GRANDERSON: Absolutely. The forefathers fought for that and made it a part of the constitution like everything else. In the second amendment right, you have a right to this free press as well.

CUOMO: Ladies?

BASS: Well, you know what? Also, if you think about the civil rights movement, if you think about the Rodney King beating, if it wasn't for the media showing those images to the world, you know, there's no telling how much longer these situations would go on. So we absolutely need that exposure, that has to happen.

PEREIRA: Great conversation, I think this is an important one to be had and we hope there are many more of these. LZ Granderson, Representative Karen Bass, and, of course, our very own Chris Cuomo. We always appreciate hearing from you.

BASS. Thank you.

CUOMO: Well, look, any time a politician supports us in the media, I take it.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: So thanks to both of you. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with some final thoughts from Ferguson and New York, just after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: So, Chris, in the last few seconds that we have, we'd love to hear what your takeaway will be from the past 48 hours that you've spent in Ferguson.

CUOMO: Look, there's 21,000 people in Ferguson, it's a very nice place. They're good people. They want better for themselves, and that's the whites, and the blacks, and everything in between. I do think it's really important to remember that tomorrow is Thanksgiving, and sometimes we need to find moments of opportunity to try and think about things a different way. That's very needed here, and across the country.

We have to think about our blessings. It's not being Pollyannaish, it's about just thinking about ways that we can do better when things are hard. And that's where we are right now.

PEREIRA: And, perhaps - -

CUOMO: You guys, it's one of the reasons I love having both of you in my lives and all of our team at NEW DAY is that I count you all among my blessings.

PEREIRA: You're allowed to be thankful today, already? Okay, we'll go with that. It's a very good opportunity, Chris, right now --

CUOMO: I'm thankful every day my sister, every day.

PEREIRA: I know you are. I know you are, darling. I think this is an important time for all of us to think about the things that we have in common instead of just the things that divide us, you know? I think there's room for that conversation, too. Hopefully that will be had around some dinner tables over this Thanksgiving holiday.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We have heard that echoed from the clergy, people that you've spoken to our there, and even from Michael Brown's family who, again, have been calling for calm and for reconciliation. So, Chris, we're thankful for you, too. And thanks for all of the great reporting. It's been wonderful to have you on the ground and share a real window on what these past 48 hours have been like there.

CUOMO: See you soon.

PEREIRA: All right.

CAMEROTA: Okay, safe travels.

PEREIRA: And good luck and safe travels to everybody. If you're traveling today, again, keep with CNN. We'll be updating you throughout the day about the weather and some of the delays that potentially you could be facing if you are either traveling by air or on the roads this holiday.

CAMEROTA: Okay, have a wonderful holiday everyone. It's time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: You guys have a happy turkey day, too. Have a great day.