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CNN NEWSROOM

Brown Family Response; Ferguson Business Burned; Ferguson Grand Jury; Ferguson Damage

Aired November 25, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper live just outside Ferguson, Missouri. This is CNN's special live coverage of the grand jury's decision in the Michael Brown shooting.

Twelve people, choosing not to indict Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot Michael Brown to death, so no arrest, no trial, no courtroom. But there is a passionate objection from the family of Michael Brown. A short time ago today, their attorneys decry the grand jury process and the choice of St. Louis county prosecutor to use it. The family's protest comes after a night of protests and violence.

(VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, police officials say 12 buildings were burned, businesses looted, at least 61 people arrested and more than 150 shots fired, many of them at police, according to law enforcement. And while Brown's parents for months have called for peace, they're now being questioned for a video from "The New York Times" that you're about to see. It shows Brown's mother talking to the crowds outside the police station last night. Then Brown's stepfather speaks up enraged. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: I've been hurt my whole life. I ain't never had to go through nothing like this. Don't none of y'all know me, but I don't do nothing to nobody. Anybody say so, they're a liar. They're a damn liar.

(CROSS TALK)

MCSPADDEN: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, for real, like just a minute (INAUDIBLE), you know, give her a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was somebody's child.

(CROSS TALK)

LOUIS HEAD, MICHAEL BROWN'S STEPFATHER: Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this place down! (INAUDIBLE). Burn this place down! Burn this place down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's the scene outside the police station last night. CNN's Don Lemon joins me now.

Don, attorneys for the Brown family just held a news conference, responded in part to this video. What did they say, first of all, about what Mike Brown's stepfather said?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, we called them and initially they said that they didn't want to address it because it wasn't made by Brown's parents. But I think because there has been - there have been so many questions about it, Anderson, that they had to address it. And what they said was, initially they addressed just Lesley McSpadden's remarks. And no one can fault a mother for grieving. And I don't think anyone thinks that the mother said anything out of turn.

But, the stepfather did. And many were questioning whether he incited some of the violence that happened last night. So during that press conference, a family representative, Benjamin Crump, did address the stepfather, Louis Head's comments. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Raw emotion, not appropriate at all, completely inappropriate. And, you know, God forbid your child is killed the way they kill and then they get that. Just devastating. And now its - in the manner it was announced and somebody put a camera in your face, what would be your immediate reaction? So don't condemn them for being -don't condemn them for being human.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So they -- and they did point out that the mother and the father all along had been saying, and really preaching to be non- violent, to be peaceful in the protests. And the father even making a public service announcement about it. The family, again, reiterating yesterday that they wanted, Anderson, a moment of silence, four and a half minutes of silence, which is indicative of the four and a half hours that their son lay there in the street with his body not being covered.

But then, of course, the violence last night. And the family representatives saying, you know, we've addressed these issues. They don't condone what the stepfather said. Someone said something in the heat of the moment expressing, you know, anger and was passionate about it. And in their estimation, they said it was time to move on.

But, again, you know, it's unfortunate that those comments were made and many are thinking that his comments may have sparked some of the violence last night, Anderson.

COOPER: Don, was there any talk at the press conference by, you know, Reverend Al Sharpton, whose organization is here on the ground, or any other community leaders or attorneys about trying to work tonight to help calm things down or at least prevent further acts of violence because, you know, during the summer when we were here, we saw church leaders and other protest leaders, you know, several days into the protests really trying to self-police and try to identify people who may be causing trouble, isolate them from others. Is there any talk of doing that tonight?

LEMON: Yes. And I'm glad you brought that up because as I was leaving this press conference earlier, as it was ending, several members of the clergy walked up to me and said, listen, I have to say that the -- the police leaders in the press conference last night, and he specifically was talking about Jon Belmer, the police chief, and Captain Ron Johnson, saying they said that members of the clergy weren't present.

Well, these members of the clergy were saying, yes, they were present, it's just not enough of them to try to corral everyone. And they, you know, were trying to get the protesters, the ones who were not peaceful last night, to stop it. And so they want to, in a way, police those people. But they said they need help, as well, from the police department and other members in the community. The clergy can't do it alone.

So the big question tonight is, when the, you know, when night falls and more protesters come out, is it going to be different than last night? The church leaders said they're going to be out here, community leaders, as well. And, of course, we're going to have to see how police respond this evening and whether the National Guard will have a more active role, if there are any protests tonight, Anderson.

COOPER: You know, one of the things I saw Antonio French, an alderman here, a local alderman saying is, you know, there are protesters and then there are looters and then there are arsonists. And it's important to point out the differences because there's an awful lot of people who want to voice their concerns peacefully. And then you have those people who clearly were taking advantage of the situation. We saw a lot of that last night.

Don, we'll continue to talk to you throughout the day on the streets of Ferguson today.

Efforts to clean up. We watch as people's livelihoods went up in flames last night. Their businesses looted, destroyed, some protesters setting fire to buildings in the area where Michael Brown was fatally shot. Last night, CNN's Ed Lavandera was reporting in front of one of those businesses, Juanita's Fashion R Boutique as it burned to the ground. Right now the store manager, Bertha Ewing, joins me, so does Juanita Morris, the owner of the boutique.

First of all, I'm so sorry for the loss of your business. How are you holding up today when you saw what happened?

JUANITA MORRIS, OWNER, JUANITA'S FASHION R BOUTIQUE: I was so sad about what happened. But I'm going to be OK. I'm going to rebuild. I can't do anything about what happened in the past. I just want to go forward and want to rebuild.

COOPER: Is it - I mean, Bertha, is it a total loss right now?

BERTHA EWING, MANAGER, JUANITA'S FASHION R BOUTIQUE: It is a total loss. You know, but we're just so encouraged by the support that we've gotten from the community, we have had so many family, friends and just passerby calling from in state, out of state that have been praying for us, and wishing us well and offering a helping hand. So it's a total loss to look at it, but in spirit wise it's not a total loss.

COOPER: And I understand there were some people from the community trying to protect your business last night.

MORRIS: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: That's got to feel - feel good.

MORRIS: Feel real good. Real good.

COOPER: Does it make -- does it make sense to you?

MORRIS: No.

COOPER: I mean you're a local business. You're -- you know, integral in this community. Does it - it's just such a waste.

MORRIS: No, it doesn't make sense when you have worked so hard for 28 years. I've been dressing the women here in St. Louis at least --

COOPER: Twenty-eight years, is that right?

MORRIS: Twenty-eight years. But St. Louis and east St. Louis making them look good. So when you put that -

COOPER: You look (INAUDIBLE), by the way.

MORRIS: Thank you. Thank you. When you put that many years and hard work into something, you want to support (ph), to continue to succeed.

COOPER: Yes. How tough will it be to rebuild? I mean do you have insurance? Do you know?

MORRIS: Yes, I do have insurance. And my customers are calling, they're willing to help in any way that they can.

COOPER: Is that right?

MORRIS: Yes.

EWING: We even got a call this morning from Philadelphia. Someone that was watching the program called us to say that they're a small business person also and anything they could do to help us rebuild, that they would do it.

COOPER: Did you worry this might happen? I mean had you, you know, boarded up and things like that?

MORRIS: Yes.

COOPER: There's only so much you can do I suppose.

MORRIS: We kind of anticipate, but nothing to this magnitude. Nothing to this.

EWING: (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER: Did you have damage back over the summer?

MORRIS: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: You did?

MORRIS: It was minimal.

EWING: Well, but -- minimum.

MORRIS: The windows broken out and few things damaged, but nothing like - you know, nothing like this.

COOPER: Do you think this community can rebuild?

MORRIS: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: I mean it's not just your business.

MORRIS: Yes.

COOPER: Because I mean the community itself is strong.

MORRIS: Yes.

COOPER: You talk to people, it's families out there.

MORRIS: Yes.

COOPER: You know, there are people who lived here for a long time.

MORRIS: Yes. It's a strong community. You know, they are friendly here. So I think we can rebuild. We can rebuild. And we are going to rebuild.

EWING: Yes.

MORRIS: We are going to rebuild. We're going to come out of the smoke and the soot and we going to rebuild and go forth.

COOPER: It's great to hear, Juanita. Thank you so much for joining us. I know it's got to be a really just emotional day for you and, Bertha, thank you so much. I wish you the best.

EWING: Thank you.

MORRIS: Thank you.

COOPER: I'll come by and I'll - when you re-open, I'll come by and buy some stuff for my mom.

MORRIS: OK, I'll hold you to that.

COOPER: All right. All right. Is it all - it's all women's clothes?

MORRIS: It's all women's, but you can -

COOPER: All right, I'll buy some for my mom. All right. All right, Juanita Morris, Bertha Ewing, thank you very much.

And there's a lot of people talking about rebuilding. Again, the question is, you know, will there be more violence tonight? And that is something nobody here wants to see.

In his testimony to the grand jury, Darren Wilson referred to the neighborhood as hostile. That was in his testimony to the grand jury. Just moments ago, the attorney for Michael Brown's family said no one challenged Wilson during his testimony and he's ripping the prosecutor, calling the entire situation unfair. We're going to discuss that next with a legal analyst.

This is our live special coverage. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, we just got word that the status of Officer Darren Wilson is going to be addressed today by community -- by the community leaders here whether or not he's going to remain on the police force. As you know, before -- before the grand jury verdict came in, we had received word, based on reporting from Evan Perez and others, that Darren Wilson was negotiating to resign from the police force. Unlikely that he would rejoin this police force given the, you know, the feelings of people in this community toward him. And, obviously, the ongoing problems with the police force. That announcement's supposed to be made 3:00 Eastern Time. So we'll bring you that as soon as we have it.

We do want to take a moment to focus on Robert McCulloch, the St. Louis County prosecutor who handled this case. He announced the grand jury's decision in a long news conference that critics say added to the already tense environment. And a short time ago the Brown's family attorney accused McCulloch of being biased in favor of law enforcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: We objected back in August to this prosecutor. We even wrote a letter to Governor Jay Nixon requesting a special prosecutor to be appointed. We objected when he informed us the process that he was going to use that was different than anything else, different than any normal grand jury event you would have presented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I'm joined by criminal defense attorneys Paul Callan and Lisa Monet Wayne.

Lisa, with -- you know, you hear Ben Crump and others saying that Robert McCulloch is too close to law enforcement. The system was basically rigged against an indictment. One of the things they're pointing to in the testimony of Darren Wilson is that he wasn't cross- examined, he wasn't challenged vigorously. Ben Crump, at one point during the press conference said, you know, a first year law student could have cross-examined him and asked him some tough questions based on his testimony. I know you've been going over, you know, the thousands of pages of documents. What do you make from Darren Wilson's testimony? What stands out to you?

LISA MONET WAYNE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think that it's right that Darren Wilson was not cross-examined. He was not being cross - it wasn't a jury trial and he got to present his defense. And there's no question that he was prepared, he knew how to set the tone early on, that he was coming in as the victim in this case. He was very clear about the size differences early on. He was clear about his mindset at the time. So he had good lawyers who prepared him to go in there and make sure that he was going to have, you know, set this tone and anything that happened after it. Because we know his setting the tone meant that the jurors from then on were going to marshal the evidence to either reject what he said or to actually support his position. So he did at great job of it and you can see that in the jury transcripts.

COOPER: Paul, did you find his testimony credible?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I, you know, I found it to be very credible. And, you know, I have to say, Anderson, that this notion that this case was handled in some highly unusual way as, you know, Mr. Crump just said and has frequently said, I have to disagree with. For instance, here in Manhattan, I've represented top officials in the Manhattan district attorney's office and they've told me that for the past 25 years, every single cop shooting case has resulted in a presentation just like this one of every shred of evidence that's available, even when the prosecutor thinks it's a justifiable shoot, and then it's left entirely up to the grand jury because it's thought to be such a serious decision for law enforcement and for the victim that it should be decided by a civilian panel rather than a judge or law enforcement authority.

So I don't think there's anything unusual here and I think you did - I agree with Lisa, the officer was well-prepared. He knew what he had to say. But that's not unusual. He was trying to present a self-defense case and he did a very compelling job. Obviously he convinced the grand jury that he was justified in firing the shots.

WAYNE: Anderson, I have to disagree though. I think that -

CALLAN: It all -

WAYNE: I mean maybe that is protocol here in New York City, but I have to tell you, that's not protocol in the country, OK? It is not protocol to call the defendant in to have them testify and present their side of the case at a grand jury. It doesn't happen on the federal level. And it doesn't happen across this country in the state. So maybe New York City's some fair, great place, I don't think so.

CALLAN: We love to get them on the witness stand because you can -

WAYNE: I don't think so.

CALLAN: You get the story under oath. If it goes to trial, you can use it against them later on.

COOPER: Wait, one at a time.

CALLAN: I mean that's why we - that prosecutors in New York love to get a shot at a potential defendant in the grand jury. I'm sorry you don't get the opportunity in Colorado.

WAYNE: No in Colorado, I'm talking about the federal system -

CALLAN: Well, and this is - no, this is state.

WAYNE: OK, California, Nevada, you go to any other state, it does not happen.

CALLAN: No, this is a state case.

COOPER: Guys - what - guys, Paul, Paul, allow Lisa to finish her thought, please.

CALLAN: Yes.

COOPER: Lisa, go ahead. Finish what you're talking about.

WAYNE: Thank you.

And, look, Anderson, I think what -- that's what the anger is and that's what Crump is talking about here. He's not saying, again, I'm going to emphasize. Nobody wants an innocent person to be indicted. What he's saying is, you treated this case differently than any other case we've ever seen in this jurisdiction and in this state. And we have a problem with that process and the disparity of that process makes us angry and we are reacting. They wanted it to be fair. And this prosecutor pretended it would be and it wasn't.

CALLAN: You know, Anderson, the -- what I want to know is, what could be fairer than giving a grand jury all of the evidence in a case. And the prosecutor's press conference indicated that a lot of the evidence that was questionable in terms of how it correlated with physical evidence. For instance, the idea that Michael Brown had been shot in the back, which was articulated by some witnesses who had a version that the Brown family would have been more favorable to, those witnesses were presented by the prosecutor.

Now, I think normally, in a streamline presentation, a prosecutor would pick the witnesses he thought to be more credible. But here, because he knew there was such enormous interest and suspicion particularly in the African-American community, he elected to give the jury everything and to remain neutral in the presentation. I happen to think that sounds like fairness to me, not a slanted presentation. COOPER: Paul Callan, Lisa Monet Wayne, I appreciate you both being on.

We're going to check in with you later on. Obviously, there's still a lot to discuss on this. And as I said, we had people going through thousands of pages of documents. There's so much to go through. We're trying to present to you, at home, as much of the evidence as we can. We're, obviously, going to have a lot more of that tonight on my program from 8:00 to 10:00 tonight.

Just ahead, a woman who supports Darren Wilson is speaking out, says her safety is being threatened. We'll hear from her.

Also, CNN is getting a firsthand look at the damage from last night's violence in some parts of town. This is CNN's special coverage. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, the decision of the Ferguson grand jury was announced after 8:00 p.m. local time last night. And it didn't take long for some protesters to let their feelings be known.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

CROWD: Killer cops in (ph) jail. The whole damn system is guilty as hell!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, peaceful protests like this one soon gave way among some people to a night of violence. There were looters who ransacked a liquor store where video surveillance of Michael Brown allegedly stealing cigars shortly before he was killed by Officer Darren Wilson. Elsewhere, fires burned out of control and firefighters already stretched thin couldn't respond, they said because of gunfire. Out of 25 set fires, more than a dozen buildings burned to the ground. The question is, how bad is the damage today? Our Jason Carroll has been driving the streets of Ferguson. He joins us now.

Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it is bad if you are a small business owner, like the ones who own the beauty supply store right here, or the laundry mat next to it, another business next to it that you see there. Throughout the day, we've been seeing people come in, trying to clean up, trying to salvage what they can from what happened out here last night here on West Florissant.

Just to let you know where we are. If you just look up the street here, I'm going to have my photographer look, you can see West Florissant, this section, it is cut off. No one is allowed in on foot or by vehicle. You're about two miles south of where I am. Between the both of us, Anderson, several buildings, businesses that were burned, looted last night here on West Florissant. As I was out here earlier today, a man came out here, Anderson, with

his 11-year-old son. And he wanted to bring him to this spot, he lives in this neighborhood. He said it was a teachable moment. But as we were standing here and speaking, some cars drove by and they were shouting "tear it down for Michael Brown." And that's really how you see how this community in some ways is divided because you have some people out here who know that this is a teachable moment, a moment of possible change, and then you also have those people here in this community that are entrenched with the belief that the only way that you can affect change is by doing things like what we see here. So I think, going forward, this is what this community and other communities like it possibly across the country are going to be struggling with.

COOPER: No doubt about that. And we want to talk more about that, how this community goes forward next. Jason Carroll, thanks for that. And Jason did a remarkable job last night of reporting on the air under very difficult circumstances.

Coming up next, Rudy Giuliani calling last night a, quote, "day of glory" for racial arsonists. He says there should be more involvement from the religious community. I'll speak live with two bishops here who disagree with each other on the verdict, on the grand jury's decision. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)