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Ferguson Grand Jury to Reconvene Today; Iran Nuclear Talks Extended; Mixed GOP Reaction to House Benghazi Report

Aired November 24, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, when will their announcement be? What will they make a decision? What will that be? These are lingering questions that have a lot of people here and around the country on edge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA (voice-over): Overnight, protesters marched, blocking traffic in Ferguson. Relatively calm, but for this incident.

DRIVER: I'm just trying to go home bro!

PROTESTER: I know, but you're going to be here a minute, bro!

CABRERA: While shooting this video, "L.A. Times" reporter Matt Pearce was rushed to the hospital after being struck in the head by a small object.

MATT PEARCE, L.A. TIMES REPORTER: I didn't see anybody throw any. I didn't see what it was. I felt a conk on the head.

CABRERA: The fire still burning in the hearts of protesters awaiting the decision from the St. Louis County grand jury. The group of 12, made up of five women and seven men, nine white and three black, is expected to meet again today after ending the day Friday with no decision.

Outside the courthouse, law enforcement have put up barricades to brace for backlash. Inside, the grand jury weighs the following options: indict Officer Darren Wilson on 1st or 2nd degree murder, voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, or deliver a "no true bill," saying there isn't enough to go forward with the charges against Wilson, who fatally shot unarmed teenager Michael Brown.

BOB MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Ultimately, the transparency will be that everything that the grand jury hears, the public will ultimately hear, one way or the other.

CABRERA: Prosecutor Bob McCulloch says if Wilson is charged, the evidence comes out at trial. If there is no indictment, he plans to make all the testimony, reports, diagrams and more public. But a judge has the final say on what gets released and when.

Michael Brown's parents have urged calm. LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: I just want you all to be

careful. Don't agitate them. Don't let them agitate y'all. I don't want nobody getting hurt.

CABRERA: The president, on ABC's "This Week," joined the call.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a country that allows everybody to express their views, but using any event as an excuse for violence is contrary to the rule of law and contrary to who we are.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: It was about a week ago now that the governor preemptively declared a state of emergency. We know the National Guard is on standby, extra FBI agents have moved into the region. Businesses have boarded up, all of these precautionary measures. People are preparing for the worst, but hoping that these steps that they're taking now ultimately won't be necessary -- Chris, Alisyn.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We are dealing with this balance, right, Ana, where you'd rather be safe than sorry, versus people taking these preparations as being provocative. So we have to see how it plays out. We'll be there to give out that part of the story for sure.

Let's bring in now Anthony Gray. He's an attorney for Michael Brown's family counsel.

Good to have you.

ANTHONY GRAY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Good morning, Chris.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something. The president in trying to give context to this situation, and obviously, tamped down the expectations of violence, which he should as the leader. He says this isn't like Selma. This isn't like the systemic problems of racial discrimination that we saw at that period in our development in that place. These are solvable problems. Do you agree?

GRAY: I do think that they're solvable problems, to be quite frankly honest with you. I thought the problems were solvable back then. We just didn't pull up our sleeves during that particular time or that generation, roll up their sleeve and solve the problem. I think it's still a -- as big of a problem today as it was back then, solvable. I think they were all solvable. It's just a matter of putting in the effort to do that.

CUOMO: "As big a problem as it was back then"? What do you mean? Because obviously, there's been tons of positive change since the '60s in terms of how we deal with each other.

GRAY: Right, Chris, and I understand that. And I guess back then it was more overt, more blatant. You know, it wasn't uncommon to actually see the vestiges of these attitudes of the people during that particular moment. You know, watching people hanging from trees, for example, that kind of thing. And I know I'm going way back. You don't see that now in 2014. You kind of see much of an invisible kind of a lynching, so to speak.

So I think the problem is still there at the same magnitude. I think the effort and the desire to solve it is probably there, as well. It's just a matter of if we're going to pull up our sleeves and do it.

CUOMO: You know, as we're getting ready to cover whatever happens here, we're talking to a lot of people on the ground. One thing I keep hearing that I want your take on is this was over for us, I keep hearing from a lot of people who are upset and are going to take to the streets. As soon as it went to the grand jury, it was over for us. Now, that's counterintuitive. The perception was that the prosecutor was going to the grand jury, so it would be an open process, that the people would be driving it, not him. Yet, the reaction is, no, he gave up, as soon as he went to this. He didn't want this case. That's why he went to the grand jury. What is your take on this?

GRAY: I think that's a legitimate sentiment, given the historical manner in which a lot of criminal cases are handled. Most of the time the prosecutor reviews the evidence on a -- on a summary basis, and they make a decision -- charge a decision based on that. The idea that you would then punt to a grand jury in this situation gives the impression that you're out of the loop, which is far from the case.

The grand jury will indict if you present evidence to indict. They won't indict if you don't present the evidence to indict. At the end of the day, Chris, this grand jury decision is going to be a direct reflection on the way the evidence was presented to them. And that stems to the prosecutors.

CUOMO: That is a common theory of how the dynamic of a grand jury works, that the prosecutor drives it so much that they have tremendous influence on the outcome.

However, there's a wild card here, Council. Darren Wilson taking the stand is unusual in grand juries. A good -- good lawyer like yourself rarely wants to put your client, who's a defendant, in that position. But he was there; he was there for a long time. There are whispers that he was an effective witness. That can mean a lot to a grand jury when they're not hearing equal testimony from the other side, right?

GRAY: Absolutely. And, you know, he was there. He was able to give a one-sided version of event. Perhaps there was questions asked of him. But probably not of the same sort and extent that it would have been under a cross-examination situation. So he was able to give his testimony. And perhaps he was persuasive because the pressure and the heat was not applied through the cross-examining techniques. So, you know, maybe that will bode well for him. Maybe it won't. It's just really hard to say.

CUOMO: However, again, to give the benefit of the doubt to the process, the prosecutor would be doing the cross-examining in -- at trial, obviously. And he has more freedom. He or she has more freedom in the grand jury than they do at trial. Rules of evidence don't apply. Hearsay doesn't apply. It's his or her show.

So are you willing to give the benefit of the doubt here that the prosecutors could have really grilled this guy in there, and they could really be making the case? Or your suspicions that they're just waiting for people to do their job for them?

GRAY: You just hit it on the head. You just -- you know, basically, capsulized everything that I was saying earlier in the few words that you just spoke. Because they are driving the process, and they have this broad discretion in a way, in a manner they want to approach this witness. Gives the total control of this whole situation at their fingertips, and that is concern in the community. That's why they don't trust it.

There's a lot of mistrust that centers around this whole situation, and it's been there from day one. And what you just described is part of the reason why that mistrust is there.

CUOMO: Well, if one thing we have going for us, and I do say "we," because this is about the community at large, in terms of how this is perceived. This is a secretive process, but there's a huge record of evidence being recorded. It's in front of 12 members of that community. It's not just kept into some government office. So you're going to know what was presented and why, either way it comes out. People are going to be angry no matter what the result is here.

But Counsel, it's very good to have you, as always. I'll be seeing you in Ferguson, soon. Let's hope that, no matter what the outcome is, there's something positive that comes out from it down the road. Thank you for being with us.

GRAY: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris. To breaking news this morning, nuclear talks between Iran and six world powers are being extended into next month. Western diplomat tells CNN that both sides are planning. There has been good progress. This is a decision that will have huge implications for Iran's relationship with the west.

Let's go right to CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, he's live if Vienna for us. What do we know, Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn. A western diplomat tells CNN that there will be no comprehensive nuclear agreement by tonight's midnight deadline here in Vienna. The parties involved will release a statement citing good progress in the talks, but to move forward, they have to meet again at a lower level. Not at the ministerial level, not with secretary of state, foreign ministers, et cetera, but a lower technical level. I'm told that those talks will take place next month at a location that hasn't been determined yet.

It means that after these months of negotiations -- because remember, it's not just these final few days here of a push since Secretary Kerry arrived, but really months of negotiations at a number of levels. They have not been able to close significant gaps between the two parties: Iran and the western powers, on the nuclear program.

Now, when you speak to diplomats involved in these talks, they're putting a shine, a positive shine on this extension, saying that, "Listen, we wouldn't extend these talks. We wouldn't continue these negotiations if there wasn't something to talk about, if we didn't feel that these gaps can be closed." The fact is, they weren't closed by tonight's deadline. And they're going to have to go back and work at this, and, frankly, Alisyn, face a different political environment, both back in the U.S. and in Iran, to sell another extension to the many opponents in each countries to a nuclear agreement.

CAMEROTA: They do have their work cut out for them. Jim Sciutto, thanks so much for updating us.

There's more news. Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, guys, we begin with some breaking news overnight. A lockdown at Ft. Sam Houston and San Antonio has now been listed. That Army base was placed on lock-down Sunday after a driver blew through a checkpoint without stopping. He was captured after a brief manhunt. An explosive team found no bombs in the vehicle. Police say he was alone, and there's no word yet on a motive.

An agreement giving some 12,000 U.S. and NATO troops an extended role in Afghanistan; getting final approval from the Afghan parliament. This allows them to remain in the country past the end of this year, when the international combat mission was set to end. The troops are there to support local Afghan forces against al Qaeda. President Obama has now expanded that role to include battles with the Taliban.

Authorities in Cleveland are investigating the fatal shooting of a 12- year-old boy. The officer mistakenly thought 12-year-old Tamir Rice had a real gun after police responded to a 911 call about a boy scaring people with a gun in the park. They say the officer fired at the boy after the child pulled a replica gun from his waistband. Rice died Sunday in hospital following surgery.

A special day for 19 people. They will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom today. Oscar winning actress Meryl Streep, retired NBC anchorman Tom Brokaw and retiring 29-term Congressman John Dingle. Oh, and I guess that, Stevie Wonder, obviously, too. Also on the list for the nation's highest civilian honor, the families of three civil rights workers murdered by the Ku Klux Klan back in 1964.

CAMEROTA: That will be an important ceremony.

CUOMO: It's an interesting award, too, because it allows the government to reward a very broad range of activities.

PEREIRA: It sure looks like it.

CAMEROTA: We'll be watching. Thanks so much, Michaela. More women are coming forward, accusing Bill Cosby of sexual assault. There are at least 15 accusers now. Is it time for Bill Cosby to respond?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: More than a dozen women speaking out, claiming that Bill Cosby sexually assaulted them, but this weekend, Cosby played to a sold-out venue in Florida. He even got a standing ovation. How long can Bill Cosby go without addressing the accusations? And what does this do to his legacy?

Let's bring in Mel Robbins, the CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Christopher Farley, senior editor and culture columnist for "The Wall Street Journal" and author of the book, "Game World."

Great to see both of you this morning.

CHRISTOPHER FARLEY, SENIOR EDITOR AND CULTURE COLUMNIST, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: OK, Mel.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR/LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. By our count, there are now 15 accusers who have come forward to speak publicly. Does Bill Cosby at some point need to address this, or is silence working for him?

ROBBINS: Well, silence is working, Alisyn, and he already has addressed it through his attorneys. And what he's done is he's attacking these victims. He's dragging them through the mud. He's digging up dirt on them to discredit them. He's calling them illogical. He's calling them delusional. He's blaming the media. And so he is responding. He's responding by victim blaming, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Christopher, as we just said, he played a show the Friday night. He got a standing ovation. Maybe we can play this for our viewers. The crowd went wild when he came out on stage. There are so many people, despite the fact there are 15 voices coming forward, that just don't believe that Bill Cosby would do something like this.

FARLEY: Well, here's the thing. This isn't just about sex. It's not just about power. It's also about money. And Madison Avenue and Wall Street are weighing in on what's going on. He lost his deal with Netflix, which was planning to do a special on Bill Cosby. He's lost his deal with NBC, which was developing a sit-com on Bill Cosby. TV Land was planning to do a marathon of old "Cosby Show" reruns during Thanksgiving. That's also been dropped. So this is hitting him in the pocketbook right now, too.

And this guy was a power in TV. We'll have to see whether he can continue to be a power, given the fact that the public and Wall Street and Madison Avenue don't think, seemingly, to address these concerns enough. CAMEROTA: But now maybe if he stays quiet, it does all evaporate.

Because thus far, these are all old accusations. The statute of limitations has passed. What is the statute of limitations on rape?

ROBBINS: Well, it depends on what, you know, what state you're in, Alisyn. For example, in New York, it's -- there is no statute of limitations, but that was only passed after some of these allegations. And so there will be no criminal charges, but there could be civil charges, although I don't think any of these women want anything more, Alisyn, than to just be believed.

I find it absolutely disgusting but not surprising that people are so blinded by celebrity that they're actually getting up on their feet and applauding for a man who's been accused not by one woman, but by 15. This isn't a "he said, she said." This is a "he said, she said, she said, she said, she said" case.

And so, you know, the bottom line is, is that women didn't come forward 30 years ago, because they wouldn't have been believed, because you still have people that will fill an auditorium and get up on their feet because the guy is a celebrity and because he's worth $400 million. No woman wants to be the face of rape, particularly when they're accusing a person that nobody will believe.

This happened with the Catholic Church scandal. It happened at Penn State. It wasn't until one person came forward and pushed it and was believed that other women came out from the shadows because there's safety in numbers, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Christopher, you've had your own experience with Bill Cosby. What happened when you wrote a story that he didn't like?

FARLEY: Yes. I wrote a story back in 2004 about the fact that Bill Cosby is making a lot of statements about what he seemed to see as a pathology in the black community. And my essay was sort of a simple plea for tolerance, that people should talk in a civil way within the black community about the problems that we face.

And he called me up and let me have it about what he thought of the story, issued a press release attacking the story. So it's sometimes very difficult to challenge people who were in those kind of positions of power.

But I should say, things seem to be turning around for Cosby right now with this current controversy. I mean, he was -- surveys consistently show him as one of the ten most-trusted pitch men in America. That may be damaged by what's happening now.

"Cosby Show" reruns have brought in over $1.5 billion in revenue over the last 20 years. The fact that it's being pulled from TV Land shows that that may be damaged in the near future. So there is a lot of mounting financial difficulties in his -- that he has to face if he doesn't deal with this current controversy.

CAMEROTA: So Mel, what is the tipping point for Bill Cosby? What will change the pattern that we've seen thus far, which is old allegations surface; accusers come forward; he stays silent, and we move on?

ROBBINS: You know, Alisyn, I think your question about whether or not he can remain silent is an excellent one. And the truth of the matter is, I think he will remain silent. And I think it will continue to work with him.

Because we live in a society everyone is so distracted unless we have video of an actual incident that puts it right in our face or audio, like we saw with Donald Sterling with the NBA scandal, people are going to forget about this. And there's a big world. And there are plenty of people in America that are willing to still buy tickets, and get up on their feet and applaud a guy who has been accused of raping at least 15 women.

CAMEROTA: Ten second, Christopher. Do you agree, or do you think that his speaking out would help the legacy?

FARLEY: Well, I think should look themselves in the eyes about this, in the mirror, too. Because, you know, this all happened because a comedian, male comedian, made a joke, and suddenly this became national news. Women have been making serious allegations for a long time, and the media didn't cover it as much. So the media has to look itself in the mirror and say why didn't this get more serious coverage, and why did it take a male comedian making a joke to put it on the front pages?

CAMEROTA: Christopher Farley, Mel Robbins, great to have your analysis this morning. Great to see you guys.

FARLEY: Thank you.

ROBBINS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Back over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. There have been seven investigations into the Benghazi attack to see, basically, if there was a conspiracy. The latest was done by the House Intelligence Committee, headed by a Republican. The report says, plenty to fix, but no conspiracy. The Republican reaction will surprise you.

Also, we're going to take you to Ferguson. A deadly confrontation between white cops and black men. It is an issue that goes well beyond Ferguson. The numbers support that it is happening more. Is that true? And if it is, why? We have Don Lemon weighing in on it ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good morning once again. Here's a look at your headlines.

This could be the day that we hear from a grand jury deciding whether to indict Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson in the fatal shooting of teenager Michael Brown. The panel will reconvene this morning. Nine of the 12 grand jurors have to agree for the case to move forward. Police and the National Guard are on a high alert for the potential of violence.

Hopes of a nuclear deal with Iran on hold for now. Talks between Iran and six western nations will extend into next month. A western diplomat tells CNN both sides are reporting good progress. Common ground has been elusive. Tehran claims its program is for peaceful purposes. World powers, however, want it scaled back. The next round of talks will be between lower level diplomats.

Condolences pouring in for former Washington, D.C., mayor Marion Barry, who died Sunday. President and Mrs. Obama paid tribute to Barry for his, quote, "storied, at times tumultuous life." Barry served four terms, three of them before he went to prison on drug charges. But he rebounded to serve another term in the '90s. Funeral and memorial plans have yet to be announced.

One Direction and Iggy Azalea come away the big winners of the American Music Awards in Los Angeles. One Direction took home three trophies. The British boy band nabbed the night's biggest prize: Artist of the Year. And "She's So Fancy." Aussie rapper Iggy Azalea was a favorite among fans. She had a leading six nominations and took home two awards, including Favorite Rap or Hip-Hop Album.

That's a look at your headlines. Alisyn, I'll pass it over to you.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela. There's infighting within the GOP following a House committee report on the 2012 Benghazi attack.

At first, the report appeared to exoneration the Obama administration of wrongdoing, saying it was working off the best intelligence it had at the time, and it did not deliberately mislead the public. But now some Republicans say the report does indicate that there was lying from the White House.

Let's ask Ben Ferguson about all this. He's a CNN political commentator and the host of "The Ben Ferguson Show."

Good morning, Ben.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: OK. There were many findings from this latest Benghazi reports. This is the sixth governmental report issued. Some of them are, well, two years -- this is a two-year investigation. They found no intelligence failure. Yet, there was confusion in the intelligence, but when they don't call it a failure, nor do they call it a cover-up or a conspiracy, and no delay in sending a rescue team. That, of course, has been a big complaint from the victims' families, that something should have been done sooner.

What are your thoughts on this latest report?

FERGUSON: Well, one, for the families, I mean, if you read this entire report, it is one of the hardest reports that I've ever read, a government report, because it reads like a terrible tragedy, which it was. And so for the families, I hope that they find comfort knowing that, in fact, there were people trying to come rescue and help save their loved ones.

But in this report, I still think the most shocking part of this, which has really been overlooked by a lot of people, is the fact that it's blatantly obvious that even on September the 12th, the CIA made it very clear no one on the ground thought this was anything but a terrorist attack. And yet the narrative coming from those at the White House was, "Let's change the word 'terrorist attack' to 'demonstrations.' Let's change the word 'terror attack, orchestrated' to 'spontaneous'." And that was the narrative that's very clear in this report.

CAMEROTA: But wait a second, Ben. But hold on a second, because the report, from the way I read it, it says that at first they did have some intelligence from some of the witnesses that people were outraged about a video. They did have some witnesses telling them that that is what motivated them. So there was...

FERGUSON: But that was in Cairo on the same day. The intelligence report makes it very clear, if you look in here, look at number seven in this report, and I encourage people to go read it. It makes it very clear that the CIA's assessment on the ground on September the 12th were the internal cables that were sent to Washington, including those at the White House, that this was not in any way anything outside of an orchestrated attack, and they were already talking about five different terrorist groups working together, including one, by the way, that was at Guantanamo Bay who was released, and now he's been arrested. So that's what the findings and the report say.

It also says that they were shocked that the words "spontaneous protests" were even being used. Where did those words come from? Well, it came from one of the top advisers on intelligence in the White House, who said, "We need to make sure" -- and I'm using his words -- "that this does not look like a policy failure of the administration."

CAMEROTA: So beyond that spin, which is what that is...

FERGUSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... that the administration was trying to figure out a way to spin this for their narrative. Beyond that, are you satisfied that this report is definitive and that this was, as you started by saying, just a terrible tragedy?

FERGUSON: Well, it's certainly an important piece of the puzzle, but I also look at this with a large asterisk, and that's this. Mike Rogers, who's in charge of helping with this report, is about to leave. He needs every one of his contacts in the intelligence community for him to be able to continue his career inside politics, but on the outside looking in. You don't burn these bridges. He's a former FBI guy.