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NEW DAY SUNDAY

Brutal UVA Gang Rape Allegations; Shooting of Michael Brown; Family Fights to Keep Dog

Aired November 23, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRISTI PAUL, CNN HOST: 29 minutes past the hour. I'm Christi Paul.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. Thanks for being with us this morning.

PAUL: Yes. Some 200 protesters rallied this weekend outside the University of Virginia's Phi Kappa Psi house demanding changes in campus rules to a culture of sexual assault after a horrific rape allegation.

BLACKWELL: And the campus outrage is growing in the wake of this month's issue of "Rolling Stone" magazine where a student describes how she was gang-raped over a three-hour period at that fraternity house, as well as her frustration over trying to get justice.

CNN's Joe Johns has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's a shocking allegation of rape at the University of Virginia. A report in the current "Rolling Stone" magazine alleging a culture of rape and sexual assault there, including a story about a first-year student said to be considering suicide after she went to a party in 2012 at the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity house and was allegedly gang raped.

Quote from the article, "Grab each leg", she heard a voice say and that's when Jackie knew she was going to be raped. She remembers every moment of the next three hours of agony during which she says seven men took turns raping her.

Annie Forrest is a friend of the accuser --

ANNIE FORREST, FRIEND OF RAPE VICTIM: She was just feeling like a normal girl on a date with Bill and then he led her upstairs and where she was taken into a room and pretty much ambushed by these men.

JOHNS: Since the article, another student has come forward, similar story, same fraternity.

KELLY ORGANSKI, FORMER UVA STUDENT: I had to walk on campus with my rapist for the next two and a half years.

JOHNS: And the issue is not just one fraternity house or even one school.

SABRINA RUBIN ERDELY, "ROLLING STONE" CONTRIBUTOR: I was told that University of Virginia is actually quite typical, even though the things that I discovered at University of Virginia are really horrifying. What I was told is that really what happens at UVA is probably fairly normal at a college campus.

JOHNSON: According to "Rolling Stone", the accuser did not report the incident at the time to police but did speak to a university official.

FORREST: When she left the fraternity house that night and called some of her friends, they actually recommended that she not go to the police.

JOHNS: At the university, damage control is in hyper-drive and police are investigating. The fraternity chapter is suspending all activities and said it will cooperate fully with the investigation. UVA's president said in a statement that the report includes, quote, "many details that were not previously disclosed to university officials. The university takes seriously the issue of sexual misconduct. We have recently adopted several new initiatives and policies aimed at fostering a culture of reporting and raising awareness."

It's a national problem. 88 universities are under investigation for how they handle sex assault cases. A former dean at UVA is now the national president of a group dedicated to ending sexual assault on campus. He says schools could be sanctioned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could face a loss of federal funding which basically would decimate an entire institution. That has never been done. But there are fines that the Office of Civil Rights can levy.

JOHNS: Important to say that in the case of UVA, it was the university that called for authorities to get involved, including police and the Virginia attorney general's office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: All right. Joe Johns -- reporting there.

BLACKWELL: Thank you Joe for that report.

PAUL: Joining us now, let's talk about this with CNN legal analysts Paul Callan and Danny Cevallos. Paul, first of all, the University of Virginia suspending all fraternities and associated parties until January 9th and asking Charlottesville Police Department to investigate the incident. This was an incident, as I understand it, again from 2012 -- too little, too late?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's not too late. The statute of limitations would still be open if it was 2012 for a potential criminal case. But, yes, it is too late in the sense that you want to have these cases prosecuted and investigated very, very quickly.

And frankly, this is stunning and shocking. I mean, seven men gang raping a woman on a college campus? I've got to hear more why the police weren't involved sooner, what they did if they were involved. It's a shocking, shocking allegation.

PAUL: Right. I mean it's stomach turning. And Danny, she told the school's sexual misconduct board, as I have read. If that is the case, does the board not have a responsibility, then to get law enforcement involved?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's interesting because on college campuses, these investigative bodies operate as sort of an independent quasi-judicial, quasi-prosecutorial entity that really isn't governed by due process and doesn't really have a lot of oversight. You can imagine that after cases like these there's a tremendous pressure to investigate these cases but, at the same time, they are not bound by the same strictures or the same transparency that government prosecutors are bound by.

And going back to what you said about 2012, you know, the problem with rape cases is that most of them -- any forensic evidence that you're going to get dissipates within days, within a week. So anything outside of a month is almost the same as something from three years ago because it will come down to testimonial evidence and a credibility determination which makes these cases incredibly painful to prosecute.

PAUL: Ok, but that's --

CALLAN: And you know -- Christi just --

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL: Paul, go ahead.

CALLAN: -- jumping back to your question about what's the college's obligation, you know, even if they are just investigating it as a disciplinary proceeding, they have a moral obligation, they have obligations as human beings to call the cops in a case like this. And if they didn't do that, there's something seriously wrong with the university officials in charge of these students.

PAUL: That's what I was wondering.

Well, and then on top of that, I think anybody watching this thinks, what about the boys? I mean now that it has been two years and we talk about the fact that there's probably no evidence, what action could possibly be taken, Danny?

CEVALLOS: Well, if there's still students, remember, the university can always investigate a student under its conduct handbook or policy or whatever they have and they can conduct their own hearings and expel the student and that would create a record that would be for a UVA student just as devastating as a criminal prosecution. And I say that figuratively but it would be very devastating in that case.

And it really brings up a greater point about fraternities. And I think this has been on -- the writing has been on the wall for many years. Fraternities' and sororities' days may be limited -- they are simply a beehive of potential liability. They are one of the single biggest providers of housing on college campuses and yet they promote social events that may or may not involve drinking, no supervision and all kinds of potential injuries, crimes, things -- I'm not saying that it necessarily happened there but as a liability entity, maybe their days are numbered.

They are just too subjected to liability and just not enough oversight. That just may be the case. Maybe in 20 years they will no longer exist.

PAUL: Paul, last word?

CALLAN: And you know Christi -- yes, you can still make a case here, a disciplinary case and a criminal case. I'll tell you why. If there were seven men involved in this, what law enforcement does is they'll go in and they'll get one guy to turn. They will offer him a deal to testify against the others and even though time has passed, you can still make a case here if there is a case to be made.

CEVALLOS: And college students --

CALLAN: Go ahead.

CEVALLOS: -- college students are going to be the most likely to take that deal. Those are the kind of students with a lot to lose and Paul is exactly right. They go to them, one guy with a deal, I don't care how much that is your bro, your fraternity buddy they will turn when their future is at stake.

CALLAN: Absolutely.

PAUL: I think I'm just so -- it's so stomach turning to think that these guys did this and they don't think it's criminal. I mean according to the actual article, they called her an "it". "Get its legs". I mean it's just -- it's something that has to be dealt with on such a much broader basis, I know.

But we so appreciate your insight into this, gentlemen. Thank you for being with us.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And of course, this weekend we, as the people in Ferguson are awaiting for the grand jury to reconvene tomorrow.

PAUL: Yes. We're going to take a look at how much the community has healed -- have they -- since Michael Brown was killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: We return to our coverage on Ferguson. The city and many cities are on edge as people wait for the grand jury to reconvene -- that happens tomorrow. Once again, there were protests overnight -- peaceful. And the demonstrators are hoping to finally know whether Officer Darren Wilson will be indicted or if he won't be for Michael Brown's killing.

Let's bring in Bishop Raphael Green, founder and senior pastor of the Metropolitan Christian Worship Center in St. Louis. He joins us from our location there in Ferguson. Bishop, the wait -- we know that the grand jury just got the case on Friday.

BISHOP RAPHAEL GREEN, METROPOLITIAN CHRISTIAN WORSHIP CENTER: Good morning.

BLACKWELL: Good morning to you. This wait for the grand jury's decision, how is that impacting the community?

GREEN: Yes. There's a tenseness here. Individuals are on edge on both sides -- blacks and whites, and those, of course, who are neither. This is a great city. We want to see it move forward and progress. But we're still just kind of waiting to see what's going to happen.

BLACKWELL: You know, one question I had when I was there in Ferguson and I continue to ask, what will be the fruit of the protest? We saw protests after the verdict in the Zimmerman trial. We've seen protests after similar cases across the country. This has been, in many ways, different. But what will be the lasting legacy for the community there?

GREEN: Well, of course, again, it could go both ways or many, many different ways. I think what many of the young people are expecting is that there will actually be persons who listen to them and make viable changes. The community in and of itself will certainly have to go through various morphs or changes as we learn to what it takes to actually heal, not only ethnically racially but also economically and otherwise in this community.

The lasting legacy could be great. Wouldn't it be great if St. Louis actually becomes a model city in terms of race relations and how to deal with matters like this? But it's going to take a lot of work and certainly as a pastor and a believer in Christ, it's going to take prayer in addition to the various skill sets and the philosophies and the ideologies and so forth that we will be exploring.

BLACKWELL: You're a pastor. This is a Sunday morning. I wonder what you tell your congregation. I imagine that a lot of them are torn. And as they wait for the decision from the grand jury, they need some guidance. What are you telling them?

GREENE: Well, as one pastor in this city, we are obviously, again, encouraging everyone to pray but also to be honest within our own hearts about both sides of the story.

From the very beginning, we have prayed for Mike Brown, Mike Brown's family and prayed for Darren Wilson and his family and the entire city. Not because we don't understand but because we know that the real answer to this is not only political, not only social, not only racial. It is spiritual. Spiritual issues really must be taken into account here.

And so we look to God to help us to kind of discern our way through this. We have infamous history related to African-Americans and whites in this country. And so all of that feeds into how we read and interpret from both sides what actually happened. We're still waiting for the facts to be brought out. We would want to understand.

But as I have said in private conversations, it's very difficult when there is a lack of sub-cultural sensitivity or there is ignorance about the way that we would interpret these things. All of logic, a great friend of mine said, flows through a river of feelings. And so we've got to deal with how we feel about it, we have to deal with the rich history behind it, the infamous history behind all of this.

It is not simply just the facts. And so we talk a lot about that and the influences that impact how we interpret what we hear, what we see. We deal with distrust, fear, pride, anger. And certainly I'm African-American -- I understand. But the principle here is more than a principle. It's a real, live story here. The narrative is that God is alive. And he loves us. He loves this community; people of this community want to progress regardless of their religious affiliation.

BLACKWELL: And indictment or no indictment, there are people who are hoping for measurable change and, of course, healing for that community. Bishop Raphael Green, thank you so much for joining us.

GREEN: Exactly right. Thank you for your time.

PAUL: A deadline is fast approaching for a family in a small Louisiana town.

BLACKWELL: They have one week to get rid of their dog or city officials will do it for them. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: All right. Take a look at this video there. Looks like a happy family, right? Smiling faces with their dog Zeus -- he's a pit bull. The family says Zeus is not only loving and a gentle dog but he's therapeutic to their six children.

BLACKWELL: But now there's an ordinance in their town that is threatening to take Zeus away from this family. The village of Moreauville passed a ban on vicious dogs last month and the pit bull, by their definition, is a vicious dog.

Now, the Armands, they have until December 1st to get rid of their dog Zeus or police will come and take their dog to the pound and, quote, "dispose of it".

Joining us now, mom Joanna and her daughter O'Hara Owens. Thank you first for joining us this morning. And tell us -- what was the -- how did you hear about this that you had to get rid of the dog? The law was passed and it gave you a couple of weeks and the dog has to go?

JOANNA ARMAND, DOG OWNER: Yes. They came during this week and they handed us a form that we had to sign stating that we were aware of it and we had until December 1st to get rid of our dog.

PAUL: Has there ever been any complaints against Zeus?

O'HARA OWENS, DOG OWNER: No.

ARMAND: No. As a matter of fact, our neighbors love him. We've never had a complaint. He's never attacked. He's never growled. Everybody that's come over has absolutely fallen in love with him.

BLACKWELL: How does Zeus help you?

OWENS: Well, for instance, like in the middle of the night, most of the time I wake up with spasms in like my legs and my back and he normally -- he sleeps right at my feet. So whenever I start spasming, he'll get up and he was nudging my mom and when she wasn't getting up, he pulled her out of the bed.

PAUL: Is there any way to argue that he is, you know, a service dog in some regard to your family? Have they listened? Are they open to that argument?

ARMAND: We have asked them that. We've questioned and we've even asked the chief of police and they told us that there was absolutely nothing we could do to save our dog.

BLACKWELL: All right. So Joanna, we want to hear from the alderman. He talked to our affiliate KALB. Let's listen to some of that.

ARMAND: Ok.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have several residents that were complaining about not being able to walk around the neighborhood at ease because these dogs are basically running around town.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Running around town, basically. What's your response to this?

OWENS: I have something to say about that.

PAUL: Go ahead.

OWENS: The supposed dogs that were running around town is actually his German Shepherd because my friend was bit by his German Shepherd and about a year or two ago, me and my sister were walking our little terrier dog down the road and his dog came out and attacked us. It almost killed our terrier and it was going after us.

BLACKWELL: Well, we hear that but unfortunately the alderman is not here to respond to that.

PAUL: We did reach out though and we did not get a comment. So -- but I understand that you do have an online petition to keep Zeus and you've got 74,000 people who have signed it already?

ARMAND: 74,000 and it's growing by every hour it's growing higher and higher.

PAUL: Ok. That's at moveon.org. That's so you can all see. It says, "Save Zeus". So now we're down to the wire. You've got until December 1st. What are you going to do?

ARMAND: We're putting a plan in action to make sure that Zeus is safe. That's our main priority. We don't want to break up our family because it's going to be extremely detrimental to our children to have Zeus out of the house. He's been here for a year now, he's been a part of our family, he's been a brother to all of my kids and he's been a baby to me.

But our first priority is to make sure that he is safe, he is sound. We're going to put him in a foster home temporarily, hopefully close by so when there is a crisis with any one of my children, they can be on hand, that we can take them to him. Also, we'll be able to visit him daily.

PAUL: Sure. Well, Joanna and O'Hara, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. The very best of luck to you. We certainly wish to you and to Zeus and to your whole family. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you both. And keep us updated on what is happening.

ARMAND: We certainly will. Thank you.

OWENS: Thank you.

PAUL: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: And good morning to you. We are still looking at rain pushing into the Buffalo area. Very light rain but you can see just on the hills of Hamburg and that was one of the hardest hit areas we saw with snow. There is a flood warning in effect now. Has gone from a flood watch to a flood warning due to that warm air, the rain and the snow melt.

Temperatures are warming. We'll be around 45 degrees today. Shouldn't have much sunshine, which is good. A little bit of rain late today into the overnight, into tomorrow; could change back into snow by Wednesday. Temperatures are going to be back and forth over the upcoming week.

So I want to mention the severe threat in the south for today as well. Damaging wind, large hail, possibility of a few isolated tornadoes and then looking for Thanksgiving holiday this weekend -- we're looking at possible snow in the northeast -- guys.

PAUL: All right. Jennifer Gray, thank you so much.

And thank you for starting your morning with us. Make great memories today.

BLACKWELL: "STATE OF THE UNION" is next. Gloria Borger is in for Candy Crowley. It starts right now.