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DR. DREW

New Details Regarding the Bill Cosby Fallout; Don Lemon`s Controversial Question; The New Trend for Sperm

Aired November 19, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Bill Cosby, the fallout from the rape accusations. New details about his comedy projects, and why

his attorney is calling Janice Dickinson a liar.

Plus, Joan Tarshis will be here live to talk about her encounter with Cosby and the question that got so much attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You he made you perform oral sex.

JOAN TARSHIS, ALLEGES SHE WAS RAPED BY BILL COSBY: Right.

LEMON: You know, there are ways not to perform oral sex.

TARSHIS: Oh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY (voice-over): Let us get started.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Good evening, everybody. I am here as I always am with Samantha Scahcher. And, there are new developments in the Bill Cosby scandal in the

wake of former supermodel Janice Dickinson having claim she too was raped. New reaction from Cosby is camp. A lot of action on social media.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST OF DR. DREW ON CALL: Oh my Gosh! Janice Dickinson has been slammed on social media, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: So, we have another victim or she has been to be re-victimized?

SCHACHER: Well, they do not believe her. They think that she is doing this for attention.

PINSKY: Listen. Why? Would she do that?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: OK. Tonight, first of all, I want you, guys, to watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMAL REPORTER: For Bill Cosby, it has been a week of allegations from women who say they were sexually assaulted in the past by

the comedian, even after Andrea Constand went to police, saying Cosby medicated and fondled her in 2004. The district attorney said there would

be no charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE L. CASTOR, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Did I think he probably did something inappropriate? Yes. Did I think that I could prove beyond a reasonable

doubt? No, I did not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Speaking out, Joan Tarshis --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN TARSHISH, ALLEGES SHE WAS RAPED BY COSBY: If I could, I would do these interviews with a bag over my head to be anonymous. I was approached

years ago by a tabloid, who wanted to pay me money to give them my story, and it just was not the way to go.

LEMON: I do not mean to be crude, OK? You said he made you perform oral sex. There are ways not to perform oral sex with you, if you do not want

to do it.

TARSHIS: Oh, I was kind of stoned at the time. And, quite honestly, that did not even enter my mind.

LEMON: Meaning the using of the teeth, right?

TARSHIS: Yes. Yes. That is what I am thinking you are --

LEMON: As a weapon.

TARSHIS: -- yes. I did not even think of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us Renee Herlocker, Entertainment Host, Lifestyle blogger; Vanessa Barnett from Hiphollywood.com and Kelvin Washington, social

commentator and radio host. And, Sam, we have reaction from Cosby is camp. Tell us about that.

SCHACHER: That is right, Dr. Drew. So, from Marty Singer, his attorney, and he is responding to Janice Dickinson`s claim, saying it is a lie. And,

he is citing a contradiction from her story now and the 2002 book that she wrote.

He says the book`s publisher will vouch for the fact that no attorney for Cosby ever tried to squash the alleged rape story and he says that the only

story from back then was that she refused to sleep with Bill Cosby and because of that, he blew her off.

PINSKY: Did not she say that he had threatened her directly not that she - - or the publisher or no?

SCHACHER: She said both.

PINSKY: Both.

SCHACHER: And, this attorney is saying there is no record of both.

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. And, he is not pulling no punches. I mean -- And, then social media has further reacted.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: And, they are sort of trying to destroy Janice`s character? Is that what is happening?

SCHACHER: It seems -- in comparison to some of the other alleged victims that have come out, alleged victims that have come out, I have seen a lot

of support for the victims. But, I have not seen that --

PINSKY: For Janice.

SCHACHER: -- as such with Janice Dickinson. Unfortunately.

PINSKY: And, Vanessa, you are dubious about this latest accusation, but you are sure about something else. Tell me what you are thinking.

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I am sure that some misconduct took place. I do not think we can have so many allegations against him and not

think that there was at some point something wrong that happened. He did - - we know that he did have undisclosed settlement with one of the first accusers.

So, there is something here that is not quite right. But, I am usually a pretty black and white type of person. And, there are some gray areas with

Janice`s story, because, you know, like you said, there are those --

PINSKY: So, Vanessa, I m going to stop you.

BARNETT: -- there is one story and then there you have back few years and there is a different story.

PINSKY: Vanessa. Wait, wait. Vanessa, are you saying -- I am not getting a clear sense of what you are saying. Are you saying that you believe he

messed around in something not so good as a husband, but you are not sure he raped or drugged anybody. Is that what you are saying?

BARNETT: He, absolutely, is a terrible husband.

PINSKY: OK. Got it.

BARNETT: It is documented that he has cheated on his wife several times.

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: What I am saying is that he did take advantage of some of these younger women --

PINSKY: All right.

BARNETT: I very well believe that he did, but Janice? She is not -- and, I think this is why social media has gone so hard on her. She is known for

being attention-seeking. She has done several things on reality T.V.

And, you have seen this kind of built-up personality that she has created. And, so, yes, if the D.A. has had reasonable doubt with some of these

cases, I am allowed to have reasonable doubt.

PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Kelvin, you are smiling. Why?

KELVIN WASHINGTON, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR/RADIO HOST: Vanessa brought up a great point, you know, with specifically with Janice, that your public

persona precede you. And, so, I think a lot of people looked at her as, "Oh, she is a little loopy, and she does reality T.V."

PINSKY: Yes, but to look at her as somebody who may not be as credible as perhaps some of the other, and that is what they are saying. Why do they

have to destroy her, Sam?

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Why destructs her character in social media?

SCHACHER: And, would if? Would if it did happen?

PINSKY: And, what if it did? That is right.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: She is being re-victimized. Renee, what are you ringing in on this?

RENEE HERLOCKER, ENTERTAINMENT HOST/LIFESTYLE BLOGGER: Well, the proof should be in the pudding upon intended. I mean everybody is so quick to

judge on social media and they hide behind 140 characters. Whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? It seems like it is always the

opposite.

PINSKY: So --

WASHINGTON: Would not that be the case -- would not that be the case for Bill Cosby?

HERLOCKER: Exactly.

PINSKY: Is that what you are saying?

HERLOCKER: Innocent before proven guilty?

PINSKY: Are you saying -- Renee, are you saying, Cosby or are you saying Janice?

HERLOCKER: I am saying both. In each case, we do not know the facts with what Bill Cosby may or may not allegedly had done, we do not know the

facts. And, as far as Janice goes, yes, she could be attention-seeking, but we do not know what is true and what is not true.

PINSKY: All right. Got it.

HERLOCKER: So, why judge on social media?

WASHINGTON: It is two things --

BARNETT: But, we know that for years, men in power have manipulated women. And, on the flip side, women have manipulated men using their sexual wild

to get what they want.

HERLOCKER: Sure.

BARNETT: And, so, we have a situation where because there are so many allegations but because there are so many women that have these different

claims, like you said, we do not know the truth --

PINSKY: All right, hang on.

BARNETT: -- But we cannot blame somebody.

PINSKY: Hang on. Sam, you got something from Instagram. Tell me what it is.

SCHACHER: OK, it is from Raven Simone. OK?

PINSKY: She was the little girl --

SCHACHER: Yes, on "The Cosby Show."

PINSKY: The little girl. OK.

SCHACHER: Yes. OK? And, some people -- there is this rumor that she was taken advantage of by Bill Cosby while she was on the show.

PINSKY: Is that something on the heels of this related stuff or something in the past?

SCHACHER: No. This has been in recent. And, this is how she dealt with it. So, she wrote on Instagram, quote, "I was not taken advantage of by

Mr. Cosby when I was on the show. I was practically a baby and this is truly a disgusting rumor that I want no part. Everyone on that show

treated me with nothing but kindness. Now, keep me out of it."

PINSKY: Are not we getting historical?

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Kelvin, let me ask you this. I mean he is a bad husband. He has messed around. He may have done something. We have no idea. As you said,

there is a reasonable doubt there on what he did to these women? And, now, he is a pedophile? We have to go to get all the way down there? Why? Are

we getting insane?

WASHINGTON: You know what? And, this is what happens, Dr. Drew, When you have women, true or not, they do not come out with their allegations

earlier. Now, you have other women jumping on board and you create this train, if you will, where everyone is jumping on and then we start piling

on people.

Then we start getting like you said throwing hypothetical`s, or what about Raven Simone or what about Lisa Bonet on "The Cosby Show." So, this is

what happen. We need victims. I mean I do not know how to say this. But, to come out earlier, so that, you know, it does not look as bad as it looks

when it is years later.

So, everyone starts on Twitter. It allows them to say, "Why did not she come out earlier" or "They are just looking for money grabs," you know? I

want thee victims because as much as I love him, the character that he played and everything, if this is true, I want these women -- I do not want

this to happen to any other person.

PINSKY: Right.

WASHINGTON: So, we need this -- we need --

PINSKY: We need to figure out what happened. All right. Next --

BARNETT: He is not the first and will not be the last.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, the woman who says Cosby assaulted her, and who was on Don Lemon last night, say he assaulted her twice, Joan Tarshis.

She joins me live to talk about what she says, at least, happened to her.

And, later, a school official under fire for a re-tweet and why students walked out of class. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CO-HOST OF CNN TONIGHT: Why did not you go to the authorities? Why did not you go to the police?

TARSHIS: Who was going to believe me?

CAMEROTA: There has been backlash now against your accusations and against the other accusers who have come forward this week. Whoopi Goldberg, a

fellow comedian talked about this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ACTRESS/COMEDIAN/HOST: Perhaps, the police might have believed it or the hospital where you go -- do not you do a kit when you

say someone has raped you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TARSHIS: I do not think there were such kits in 1969. If there were, I was 19. I did not think of it. I did not know about it. I did not think

about going to the hospital.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam. And, that was -- part of that video was from ABC`s "The View." Let us bring in our behavior bureau. Mike Dow,

Psychotherapist, host of Investigation Discoveries, "My Strange Criminal Addiction," premier on December 1st; Leeann Tweeden, social commentator,

host of Tomboy`s Podcast on BlogTalk Radio; Judy Ho, Clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University. And, Sam, earlier we saw a clip of Don

Lemon`s -- what ended up being controversial comments. What are we hearing now on Twitter?

SCHACHER: We are hearing a lot on Twitter, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: So, we both had some criticism on Twitter, right?

PINSKY: You and I.

SCHACHER: You and I have. Well, Don Lemon is getting a lot right now. So, I am going to read one of the tweets to Don.

PINSKY: I did not think people criticize you.

SCHACHER: Are you kidding me? I get so much criticism on Twitter.

PINSKY: Everybody gets it.

SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly. OK. So, if we could all be so lucky to get proposals like Anahita did, but not so much.

(LAUGHGING)

PINSKY: Yes. Right.

SCHACHER: Rich wrote to Don, quote, "Joan Tarshis is still waiting for her apology for you suggesting she uses her teeth to avoid being raped."

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Mike, what do you think of Don`s comments to Joan?

MIKE DOW, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/HOST OF INVESTIGATIVE DISCOVERIES: Well, listen, I do not think he meant any harm in this.

PINSKY: Listen. Let me stop you. I actually was sitting right there. I was actually on his show last night. I was in a studio waiting to come on

moments later. And, he was very careful to say, "Look, I just have to ask this question. I feel really bad asking it. I hope you do not mind. He

apologized 10 different ways.

DOW: Yes.

PINSKY: But it was something --he felt he kind of had to, like, understand and he asked it. But, was it the right question?

DOW: Well, you know, was it the right question? Yes. I do not think so. I think the learning opportunity here is that the way you talk to somebody

who is a survivor of sexual abuse. You want to emphasize what the person did to try to make themselves safe.

You do not want to emphasize the other thing, which is what they did not do. Now, Don Lemon, himself, is a survivor of sexual abuse. I do not

think he meant anything wrong here. But, I think it is a great learning opportunity for all of us, so that when we do talk to somebody who is a

survivor, we have some compassion and we know what can really help them.

PINSKY: It is a great point. And, Judy, helplessness is the traumatic experience and so to revivify the helplessness does not really -- that is

why I think why people get offended by this kind of stuff. And, by the time somebody gets to the point where they are being victimized, they stop

fighting back. That is how people become victims.

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right. And, there is this aspect of re-victimization as they are trying to tell their story now and

people are having a backlash reaction about what you could have done in a moment, were you somehow to blame. And, this is how our culture treats

rape victims. It is really a cultural perspective.

PINSKY: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. But, people are attacking Don Lemo. They are attacking Don for not being sensitive to her as a victim.

HO: Well, that is good. But, there are also people who are attacking these women coming forward.

PINSKY: I see. I see.

HO: I am sure you have seen some of that, as well.

PINSKY: Yes. That is right. We have. OK. Now, on the phone, I actually have Joan Tarshis. She alleges she was drugged and raped by Bill Cosby in

1969. She broke her silence this weekend. Joan, your interview with Don Lemon is getting a lot of traction.

JOAN TARSHIS, ALLEGES SHE WAS DRUGGED AND RAPED BY COSBY: So, I heard.

PINSKY: Yes. Do you have any feelings about it or was he vocative for you in any way? Are you cool with it?

TARSHIS: I am cool with it. I was kind of surprised.

PINSKY: Yes.

TARSHIS: But, I did not really think he was coming at me. I did not think he was accusing me. I did not feel that he was saying you should have done

this, why did not you do that. I really did not feel that.

PINSKY: He was just -- to me, it felt more like sort of curiosity that he imagined other people needed answers and he had to be the one to ask that

question. All right, let us move past that because I -- you know, Don Lemon is a consummate professional.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: We could split hairs about whether he could have done it better. Forget it. Joan.

TARSHIS: And, I am sitting right ready to talk to Don Lemon again tonight, right after you.

PINSKY: Great. Fantastic. I think that is great. Now, Joan, you have been open about having have an addictive history, is that right, addiction?

TARSHIS: That is correct.

PINSKY: How did that experience -- the trauma of this rape you are alleging, how did it affect your addiction?

TARSHIS: I think my addiction had already started prior to this. I think it started in my middle teens. But, I think the fact that I did have an

addictive personality enabled me to accept drugs from him, accept alcohol from him.

PINSKY: Right. And --

TARSHISH: I think it made it -- people say why did you do it the second time, when you knew he had drugged you. And, I said because it was --

there was a drink involved. And, I wanted a drink.

PINSKY: So, your addiction fed into how you were re-victimized, some of the motivational disturbances. Another thing people have trouble getting

their head around, and many of the victims that have come forward really represent this phenomenon that I have described forever, which is that when

people are victimized in childhood, they are often re-victimized later in life. And, the attorneys go, "Oh, yeah, sure, everybody victimizes you.

But, that is how humans work. So, my question to you is did you have childhood victimization as well?

TARSHIS: I am one of the lucky few that had not had childhood victimization. I had a very unusual childhood.

PINSKY: How is that?

TARSHIS: I was in show business.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Sounds traumatic.

TARSHISH: So, I was victimized in that way.

PINSKY: OK. And, when did you realize that you had been raped?

TARSHIS: I think, actually, it might have been about 10 years after. Because in 1969, to me, rape was something that was done in a dark alley

with somebody that you did not know with a knife held to your throat. And, it was either do this or I am going to cut you to pieces.

PINSKY: And, so back then -- there was not in the sort of cultural lexicon understanding of the spectrum of what rape is, is that right?

SCHACHER: Yes.

TARSHIS: Exactly. Exactly.

PINSKY: Now, Janice Dickinson told "Entertainment Tonight`s" Kevin Frazier that she also had been through this experience with Bill Cosby. Have a

look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE DICKINSON, SUPERMODEL: In my room, he had given me wine and a pill and the next morning I woke up and I was not wearing my pajamas. And, I

remember before I passed out that I had been sexually assaulted by this man. The last thing I remember was Bill Cosby was in a patchwork robe,

dropping his robe, and getting on top of me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joan, how do you react to what Janice was saying?

TARSHIS: That is kind of what happened. I sort of came to at that point, when he was standing over me, taking off my underwear. I had blacked out

before then. I had had a drink, a Bloody Mary that he topped off with beer, which he called a Red Eye.

And, it was really good, and I drank it down really quickly because it tasted good. And, I came to, and he was -- I was on the couch. And, he

was pulling my underwear down.

SCHACHER: Joan, I have a question --

TARSHISH: Yes.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

SCHACHER: OK. Joan, over the years, did you ever confide in anybody, a roommate, a friend, your mom, or did you keep it a secret up until -- I

believe you said you finally came out at an AA meeting, right?

TARSHIS: I did -- I spoke to people before that. But, it was at that meeting that I received a lot of support from about 25 people at one time.

But, I did speak to a friend and his girl friend about it. And, I was very -- I picked the right people because I was --

PINSKY: Joan?

TARSHIS: Yes?

PINSKY: I am sorry, Joan. Hold on for one second. I am going to have to go to break. But, before I do I have to ask Leeann. Leeann, you knew

Janice fairly well, and you say that her experience really affected her, this experience with Bill Cosby.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that any time you that you -- I was watching the message boards on Facebook when the story was

posted at a local media outlet. And, people were attacking her, because they are like, "Oh, Janice is crazy." "Oh, she is drugged out, you know,

model." "Who is she, anyway?" You know, people that did not know who she was and that she was the first supermodel.

And, it really upset me, Dr. Drew, because I do not know. I was not raped by Bill Cosby, I have never accused him of it. I do not know if this all

happened. But, to me, if people are talking and they are saying these things, how are other people out there, like, blaming her because they

think she is a crazy woman and do not believe her? That just makes me angry.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Yes. It would be interesting here too -- It makes me angry too, I must tell you. The victimization is being spread around through social

media. And, I am also wondering if Janice ever mentioned it at a meeting as well. It is interesting.

All right, next up. We have got more on the fallout from these rape accusations. There is as late development, another woman has come forward

with allegations just moments ago, and I have got her live. I will speak with her about these allegations. She is a public figure.

Later, men found on the internet having sex with women for free. It is a new trend for sperm donors. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN FRAZIER, HOST OF "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: She just come out of rehab. MR. Cosby, according to Janice, actually called her while she was in rehab

and then found her in Bali and told her to get to Tahoe for a meeting. She said she remembers being groggy and watching him take that robe off. And,

felt like she was in a sense, stupid for letting this happen.

EVY POMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Janice, again, very truthful. She talks about regret and she talks about not having said. And, the fact,

that she did try to come out back in 2005 and that this has been earlier on, again, we see all these indicators that this has been going on and

everybody has been doing what? Trying to cover it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Judy and Vanessa, and we are discussing allegations against Bill Cosby. And, we have to note Bill Cosby`s attorney

has released a statement that reads in part, quote, "Over the last several weeks, decade old discredited allegations against Mr. Cosby have

resurfaced. The fact that they are being repeated does not make them true." And, Sam, you have a tweet.

SCHACHER: I do. I have a tweet from John. It reads, "Bill Cosby`s only hope is for all the women he had consensual nonviolent adulterous affairs

with is to come forward and defend his character."

PINSKY: So, where are the other people in his life that know him to be other than the kind of person that we are describing.

SCHACHER: Right. They need to step out now if that is the case.

PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. And, by the way, they are welcome to come on here and defend his character. We would like to hear that side of the

story. I know he has done a lot of good for people. I mean that has been his sort of very much why this is such a --

SCHACHER: Right. Hard for people to wrap their head around.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: It is a shattering story. I mean that is why, you know, I do not want to say -- it excuses anything, but he has done good. So, all right.

Also, on the phone, I have Joan Tarshis, she alleges she was sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby in 1969. She was 19 years of age at the time. We

are going to -- Now, Joan, you had something you wanted to say about Janice, is that right?

TARSHIS: Well, about Janice and myself. I have been in recovery since 1988. In 1969, I was definitely not a recovered person. Just because

people have pasts where they might have been a little bit wild as people would call us, does not mean that this does not make it true.

SCHACHER: Exactly.

TARSHIS: Does not mean that we are not susceptible to people raping us. And, I have heard people talking about Janice that way and it really upsets

me.

PINSKY: Joan, I totally agree with you. And, my point has always been, it is specifically the intoxicated person whose judgment may have been

impaired, who may have been previously victimized, that is specifically the person that we must help protect and bring to treatment and not re-

victimize.

We have got to educate people how to identify those things, particularly young men. And to be fair, Joan, back in 1969, these sorts of -- this sort

of sophistication was not readily available, was it?

TARSHIS: No, of course not.

PINSKY: Well, I know that. I mean, in course of that, we would hope people would know better, but they just -- I suppose they did not. I do

not know. And, how --

TARSHIS: And, nor did I. I was only a kid.

PINSKY: But, is not that the person that needs protection? I am just saying. We have got things backwards. That is all I am saying. Judy, you

know what I am saying here?

HO: Yes, absolutely. So, you know, that re-traumazation and re- victimization of these people when we actually have to protect them, educate them about why this is particularly a danger for people who do have

some of this alcohol and drug history. Right?

PINSKY: That is right.

HO: Getting them --

PINSKY: Now, I want to go to something that may be a bit of a powder keg here. And, Vanessa, I am going to get your reaction to this first. Joan,

during a radio interview, you have said something that seemed evocative. You said, quote, "For some reason, maybe he wanted power over white --

adolescent, white girls," unquote. What did you mean by that?

TARSHIS: I was trying to figure out some kind of reason why -- you know, this is before I knew that there were many other people like me. This was

-- this was -- days and weeks and months and years after this happened to me. I was trying to make some sense out of it.

HO: Yes.

TARSHIS: And, I just -- it just -- I just intuited that there was something about young white girls that he could have control over, that he

could have power over, that must have come from something in his past.

PINSKY: But, you are not making it -- are you making it a racial issue, or are you just saying that, that is something he was attracted to for

whatever reason?

TARSHIS: I am not sure.

PINSKY: Vanessa.

BARNETT: I think definitely it is a racial issue. You specifically said white girls, not girls in general.

PINSKY: But, that is the pattern. I mean, that seems to be the pattern. I mean she is just making sense of it.

BARNETT: But, at the time, she even said that she did not know that was the pattern. She had no knowledge of any other women.

PINSKY: Right.

BARNETT: So, to specifically say white women --

PINSKY: So, she intuited that. OK.

BARNETT: -- it does speak to racial issues.

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: And, maybe you think that he needed that kind of dominance in his life. But, at the time, like you said, that was not proven. --

PINSKY: Vanessa. Vanessa.

BARNETT: And, I just want to say. Anyone --

PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait. Does that make sense to you?

BARNETT: Absolutely not. No, I do not think --

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: -- especially if you do not have any knowledge of that. You cannot just go on record saying, "Oh, maybe he just likes to take advantage

of white women" --

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: -- when you do not know that to be the case.

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: And, I do want to say that just because we are asking the victim questions, does not mean we are trying to victimize them all over again.

There is doubt. There are gray areas.

There have been several instances where women have lied on men and said that they have done things that they have not. So, simply asking questions

of those that are coming out years later after these accusations, I think that is a -- that is something we are entitled to do --

PINSKY: I agree.

BARNETT: And, I do not think we should be told that we are re-victimizing these victims.

PINSKY: Well, no. That is not the point. Really, it is the manner in which some of these things have been asked.

HO: Right.

PINSKY: We have to be sensitive too. And, that is why social media is reacting so powerfully. Leeann.

TWEEDEN: You know, Dr. Drew, Just thinking about that, you know, that dynamic. He is married to a black woman. All of the women that have come

out are white. You know, maybe it was something that -- it is interesting. Because I have talked to some of my black friends and in the black

community, there are some that think that Mr. Cosby was very white. You know what I mean?

He looked down upon the guys that wore their trousers really baggy or that used the "F" word in their stand-up comedy. So, a lot of them kind of

resented him for sort of being that Uncle Tom or whatever he wanted to say. You know, they felt that he was very white. So, maybe that was something

that he was -- I do not know.

PINSKY: I do not know. It seems like -- Leeann, we end up criticizing him both ways. He is getting criticized on both ends of this spectrum.

HO: Yes.

BARNETT: Right. And, just because he was successful and just because he had power does not make us think that he was, quote, unquote, "White."

PINSKY: All right.

BARNETT: You can be black --

TWEEDEN: That is not what I am saying. That is what some in the black community is saying.

PINSKY: Well, no. Vanessa, it was some of his political views in terms over the criticism he have made of the black community. He was criticized

roundly for that. We have got a lot more. We will continue this conversation. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Renee, Vanessa and Kelvin. Also on the phone with us is Joan Tarshis. She alleges that she was sexually assaulted by

Bill Cosby in 1969 at the time when she was 19 years of age. I have a tweet, Joan.

Someone picked up, her name is Page Smith. She is questioning a discrepancy in your story. I want to give you a chance to respond to it.

She puts up here, she said, "The first time she wakes up naked next to him, not knowing what happened. And, now she is saying she remembers him

climbing on top of her." What is your response to that?

TARSHIS: Those were two different times.

PINSKY: So, one --

TARSHIS: One is the first time --

PINSKY: Yes.

TARSHIS: One is the first time in the bungalow and the second time was at the Sherry Netherland Hotel.

PINSKY: And, the second time is the time you remember him climbing on top?

TARSHIS: The second time is the time I remember waking up next to him.

PINSKY: OK. And, Sam, you have something to say?

SCHACHER: I have a tweet too in response to people who may be doubting the victims. From Heather Gray, she tweets, "Too many are hostile to the

victims, especially Janice Dickinson. This is not a bandwagon anyone asks for." So, for the people out there -- what would be the reason, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: For what?

SCHACHER: For the people out there that believe that --

PINSKY: Why there is somebody would step up and say something like this?

SCHACHER: Yes, unless they are one of the victim.

PINSKY: There are people that feel victimized in situations where they have a distorted memory. That does not happen. But, it does not happen as

a hysteria. It does not happen like all of a sudden, people step forward. Vanessa, what say you?

BARNETT: There was also something that I read that said, "You were very flattered that he seemed to be attracted to you, and you also thought that

this would help further your writing career."

TARSHIS: No. I never said that he was attracted to me.

BARNETT: You were flattered that he wanted to spend time with you and that you thought this would help further your career. Was that maybe an early

indicator that would be --

PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Vanessa, finish your thought and we will have Joan`s response. Go ahead.

BARNETT: Is that an early indicator that, that could have open the door to him maybe wanting to take your relationship further?

PINSKY: Now, Vanessa, you are going to get in trouble for this.

TARSHIS: It is a valid question.

PINSKY: It is a question, and the question --

TARSHIS: It is a leading question.

PINSKY: Well, but it should be, have other women welcomed that and not been raped. You know what I am saying. They were manipulating him as a

way to further their career and did he make assumptions as a result of those experiences. Did you think that in your head, Joan?

TARSHIS: No, because he knew That I had already been writing with Dr. Cambridge. He knew I was out there to write with Dr. Cambridge. So, he

said, "Are you working on any material right now?" And, I said, "Yes, I am working on something, something about an earthquake." He said, "Well, let

us see whether I can use any of that."

PINSKY: Now, Joan, if Mr. Cosby were watching right now, listening to you, what would you want to tell him?

TARSHIS: Oh. I would want hope that whatever had caused this behavior in him could heal, because obviously there is a big part of him that is very

troubled. And, I only hope that someday before he dies, he solves this part of himself.

PINSKY: And, it is possible it has been, right?

TARSHIS: I do not know.

PINSKY: Do you think if it had been he would step up and ask forgiveness?

TARSHIS: Possibly. But, it is such a huge circus he would be stepping into. I mean I can only hope that it has been healed, but it does not

appear that way to me.

HERLOCKER: Have you been healed, Joan?

PINSKY: Renee -- Renee is asking for Joan.

HERLOCKER: Have you been healed, Joan, or is this part of the process? Do you think you coming out and being able to vocalize, you know, how you have

been feeling and what actually occurred to you so many years ago? Is it part of your healing process?

TARSHIS: I do not know if I have really been healed by it. But, it is something that I certainly have wanted to get off my chest. I did not have

any though that this is the extreme I could probably think --

HERLOCKER: Right.

WASHINGTON: Joan, I have a question, and from yourself and other maybe women that you have spoken to over the past few days or months, is this

something -- because he was such a powerful person, a powerful entity in the entertainment world, and many other men and other women who are also

powerful, who have been accused of these things, is it difficult to penetrate their team that is around them, their entourage, their lawyers,

their business people, publicists? Is it difficult to get behind that shield and that is why many women are scared to come out?

TARSHIS: Absolutely. I mean, it is -- especially the lawyers and the money. And, who am I -- I mean, the mind boggles. What would I have to

gain from doing this, when people accused me? I was in upstate New York and I am a student. I am not writing a movie. I am not writing a book. I

just wanted support of the women who came before me.

SCHACHER: And, Joan, if Bill Cosby were to apologize and own up, how would that make you feel and would you forgive him?

TARSHIS: I would forgive. I would not forget. But, I do not -- I never - the times after it was over and the second time and when he called again, I never heard any remorse. I never heard any guilt. I never heard anything

that suggested to me that he felt he had done anything wrong. Just from his tone of voice. And, I know it is a feeling, and Dr. Drew, you and I

both know feelings are not fact but sometimes they are.

PINSKY: Well --

WASHINGTON: Is this something --

PINSKY: I got to wrap this up. But, feelings are not facts, but instincts are very powerful things. So, we want to hear your story and what your

experiences were in those moments. And, as far as you are being a fearful of the attorneys, just take a look right now what is happening to Janice

Dickinson.

And, we are certainly walking carefully through this story. So, I understand it is just a private citizen out there, 19 years of age, might

be very scared of that sort of thing.

Joan, I want to thank you for joining us and good luck with Don tonight. I am sure he will reframe his conversation. He is a good guy. And,

certainly, he meant nothing by it. And, I hope you will reinforce that to people, that he did not harm you, OK?

TARSHIS: I absolutely will. Absolutely will.

PINSKY: All right. Thanks for sharing the story. We will be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDETAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A 23-year-old Kyle says he has the right stuff to be anybody`s baby daddy. He is also a donor, offering his sperm

free of charge to women desperate for a baby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: What is in it for you besides random sex with a lot of women?

KYLE GORDY, DONATES SPERM FOR FREE: It is kind of like I just made life, make passing on my legacy in giving these people kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I would go to a bank if I could afford it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDY: I am about to see my recipient. I am just making my bed. You know, I am making it look nice, ready. Ready to get someone pregnant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I think he is the right match for me.

GORDY: Looks like we are ready.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: 20 minutes later, the deed is done. And, the waiting begins.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It went well.

GORDY: Just waiting like 30 minutes for the sperm to settle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Germany or Florida? That clip was from ABC`s "20-20." I am back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Mike. Sam, you are going to tell me more

about this. But, first, I have got to know, Germany or Florida?

SCHACHER: I know, right, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Where is it? Is it actually in Germany or in Florida?

SCHACHER: I think it is now all over. That is the scary thing, Dr. Drew. This is not just one case. So, men are offering their sperm for free to

women who are desperate to get pregnant.

PINSKY: Is it an online phenomenon or is it just a local phenomenon? Is it just that guy?

SCHACHER: No, there is more of them. And, women are contacting them online. This guy has it on his Facebook page.

PINSKY: Where is that? Somebody in the producing room tell me where that guy is, Germany or Florida?

SCHACHER: OK. Good. We need to know.

PINSKY: One or the other.

SCHACHER: But, this is not a donation at a sperm bank. This is good old fashioned natural insemination, which is unprotected sex.

PINSKY: OK. All right. Leeann, do you believe these men really want to assist these women in their fertility or these guys are just looking for

sex?

TWEEDEN: Give me a break. I mean I would not want that kid`s baby, first of all, ew. Anyways, well, let us get beyond that point. I mean really

what are these guys doing?

A. The women -- are you that desperate that you are going to have sex with somebody you met online, that you do not know their medical history. They

have not been screened for diseases?

PINSKY: Right.

TWEEDEN: I mean, what are you asking for? I mean you almost have better luck just meeting a guy at the bar and getting knocked up than actually

going out attempting to find them this way.

PINSKY: Well, it is the same thing.

TWEEDEN: But, this way is creepy.

PINSKY: But, hold on. Vanessa has a look of despair and disgust in her face that I rarely see on Vanessa. What is going on your thoughts?

(LAUGHING)

BARNETT: That you rarely see?

TWEEDEN: I have to say --

PINSKY: Not like that. Not that distaste.

BARNETT: First of all, yes, ew is right. I do not drink after strangers, let alone let some strange man put his pee-pee where it does not supposed

to be. It does not supposed to be there. So, I think this is barely risky. It is kind of sick. And, yes, these women are desperate.

They have said they are desperate. They do not have the money to go to these sperm banks, but at the end of the day, some things are worth paying

for and sperm is one of them. I do not know anybody who just want free sperm all over the place --

PINSKY: Wait a minute.

BARNETT: If you are really suppose to have a child, you want to do it the right way --

PINSKY: What if, Vanessa -- speaking of all over the place -- I am missing your point.

SCHACHER: What, Dr. Drew?

BARNETT: It is free sperm.

PINSKY: You want free sperm. It is a good thing for free sperm?

BARNETT: No, it is bad.

PINSKY: Bad thing.

BARNETT: There are things you should pay for in life and sperm is one of them, my only point.

PINSKY: Well -- they are paying for it. The delivery mechanism is what we are taking issue with here.

BARNETT: No. Some of this is free sperm. Some of this is just, "Hey, let us get it on." "I want lots of babies around the world." "You are

desperate, so I will give it to you."

PINSKY: Well, I thought they are actually charging --

TWEEDEN: But, wait, Dr. Drew. I just thought of something.

SCHACHER: No. They are not charging.

PINSKY: I beg your pardon.

TWEEDEN: If these women cannot afford in-vitro --

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: -- which is a very expensive thing, and they are looking for free, how can they afford to have a baby?

PINSKY: Also, they do not need in-vitro.

BARNETT: A baby is a long-term commitment with money.

PINSKY: Mike. Mike. Help me out here, Mike. They do not need in-vitro, because they believe they would go to a sperm bank.

DOW: Exactly.

TWEEDEN: Well, no. Some say they cannot afford it.

PINSKY: And, sperm banks are fairly inexpensive, are they not?

SCHACHER: $1000.

PINSKY: But, this reminds me of like -- this is like Uber, Baby Uber.

DOW: Yes.

PINSKY: THIS is Buber.

SCHACHER: Buber? Did you come up with that?

DOW: Yes. And, you know, here is the thing --

SCHACHER: #Buber.

DOW: You are not really saving any money. Because even if you are saving a few hundred bucks and you cannot afford a sperm bank, you are going to be

spending a lot of money down the road if you have an incurable STD.

BARNETT: Thank you.

DOW: If you have to seek out a lawyer down the road.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

DOW: You know, not to mention the emotional heartache, the time. So, I mean people -- sperm banks are there for a reason. This is just a very bad

idea all around. And, come on, these are guys, right? These are guys. You know, and the other word that guy said was legacy. You know, legacy,

he just loves the idea, probably, that there is hundred of him running around. And, meanwhile, lots of sex.

TWEEDEN: Ew, disgusting.

SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh.

PINSKY: All right. I am going to dig into a little more what Mike said about men and men who offer themselves up in this fashion. And, this is

uber-esque delivery system.

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: Drew.

PINSKY: Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGYIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Some people might want millions of dollars in the bank and then some of us might want to have dozens of children out

there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Some believe that having sex with sperm donors is the best hope for pregnancy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I had read a couple books that talked about fresh semen being a lot more effective than frozen sperm. I had to keep

reminding myself this is a donor, not a date. It was sad, but it is the road I have chosen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: That clip is from ABC`s "2020." And, back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Mike. We are cleansing our palate from the heaviness of the

Bill Cosby story.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: By talking about women who have these unprotected sexual escapades with strangers as a means of sperm donation.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Is not that what we are talking about? They find men online who alleged that they want to -- is there a name for this process?

SCHACHER: Well, you just named it buber.

PINSKY: Buber. OK.

SCHACHER: OK. There you go.

PINSKY: It is Buber. Uber for sperm or Uber for babies. I am not sure which. Free of charge using what they are calling natural insemination.

And, Emily, will you put the tweet up there about how they have been doing this for years throughout human history, I believe.

Women -- my question -- there it is. "They have been doing that for years, #deadbeatdads." Interesting. And, that is an interesting question. Mike,

do you think there could be a possibility that these men later could have financial responsibilities or have regrets and want some sort of visitation

with these children?

DOW: They absolutely could. You know, when people are adopting -- The decision to have an open or closed adoption is a very big decision. And,

for these people who are just doing this free, social uber of sperm, sort of delivery service, yes, they could absolutely have legal consequences.

You know, what happens if all these hundred children want to come back and have some sort of a relationship with them down the road?

PINSKY: Right.

DOW: I think it is a bad idea legally and also emotionally.

PINSKY: Absolutely.

TWEEDEN: Emotionally, yes.

PINSKY: And, Leeann, it is almost becoming a moral issue.

TWEEDEN: Yes. But did you just see a woman --

PINSKY: The tweets are -- I cannot even concentrate, they are so fun know.

SCHACHER: When we came back -- that one guy was pretty funny.

PINSKY: #everythingisnewstoyou.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: And, my question, though, Leeann is, there is another layer of liability in this whole process, which women may form an attachment to the

donor.

TWEEDEN: Right. Did you see the woman coming out of the break there?

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: I mean, obviously, to me, and I am not a doctor. You are. But, she seemed emotionally fragile anyways. And, she knew she is trying to

have a child, so she is looking for a free sperm donor online. And, she meets the guy and she is like, "Oh, God, he was cute." And, I had to

remember, it was just a sperm donor thing and not a date.

PINSKY: Yes. You are right.

TWEEDEN: You could see their red flags. They are popping up everywhere, Dr. Drew. And, I am thinking this is a woman who wants to have, you know,

sex with this man to have a baby on her own.

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: I mean, can she even like take care of a child? I mean she is already emotionally weird thinking that she fell in love with a donor in

one meeting.

PINSKY: Well, OK. Sam, go ahead.

SCHACHER: Well, Leeann, this story is inspiring others, OK?

PINSKY: What do you mean?

SCHACHER: This could very well be a franchise buber, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Oh-oh.

(LAUGHING)

TWEEDEN: Copyright the name now.

PINSKY: No, no. Do not. Stop here.

SCHACHER: OK. So, this a tweet from Cecil.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: OK. Whatever. So, he tweets, "Where do I sign up to donate. #freesperm." I am seeing a number of these tweets.

PINSKY: Yes. I am sure you guys a moments ago. They have always been, as they say. Now, Vanessa, I am just -- in addition to watching the tweets, I

am watching your face, and you have had a range of emotions flash across your face. What is going on?

BARNETT: It is comical. It is scary -- on this show so often, we talk about mental health issues. You can screen this sperm. Nobody has got a

microscope. Nobody can tell you if there is like history of craziness.

PINSKY: No. No. Great point. And, theoretically, in sperm banks, they give you that sort of family history.

BARNETT: Right. They give you that.

TWEEDENT: That was a great tweet, by the way, that was just up there.

PINSKY: Put it up again. I did not see it. Go ahead, Sam.

SCHACHER: Well, they do list them, Dr. Drew. He lists whether or not we know it is true or not, he lists that he is really great at science, that

his dad was a scientist.

TWEEDENT: Look at the tweet.

SCHACHER: Apparently, the guy could not get a date --

PINSKY: And, he s smart enough to figure that out, evidently.

BARNETT: No. Anybody could get a date on Tinder.

SCHACHER: It could this be narcissism, the fact that he just wants to have descendents?

PINSKY: Mike, I got 10 seconds. Narcissism, yay or nay?

DOW: No.

SCHACHER: No.

DOW: But, gen activity, think like a man.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Think like a man.

TWEEDEN: He probably could not get a date anyway.

PINSKY: But, he is smart enough to get around it. DVR us right now, and you can watch us any time. "Forensic Files" is up next.

END