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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Huge Recall of Cars with Defective Air Bags; Obama Expected to Sign Executive Order on Immigration; Some Fear Israeli-Type Attacks Coming to U.S.; Moral Dilemma On Stores Opening Thanksgiving Day

Aired November 19, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: The federal government is asking for a huge recall of cars with defective air bags. We are talking millions of vehicles. The company Takata makes them. These flawed air bags, as you just saw, can explode and hit passengers with shrapnel. At least four U.S. drivers are believed to have been killed.

Our Rene Marsh is our aviation and government regulation correspondent. She joins me now.

This is a concerning thing when we see the images of what could happen here. What models are we talking about? How many vehicles are affected, Rene?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Right, it is concerning. And you mentioned it right off the top. NHTSA saying millions and millions of additional cars on the road right now, as we speak, Michaela, have dangerous air bags inside. So now they're calling for expanded recall. It's now nationwide.

I want to put up on the screen there so you can see which automakers we're talking about here BMW, Ford, Chrysler, as well as Honda before this was very specific. They were looking at recalling vehicles only in hot and humid states. Now they're changing that. They're calling for a nationwide recall.

For all of those you're seeing on your screen, the five automakers we just mentioned, it's specifically for vehicles manufactured prior to 2008. That is very vague. So which exact makes and models are we talking about here? They're still working with the manufacturer to get those details -- Michaela?

PEREIRA: Stay with CNN so we'll get you that information. Those are five major car makers that we're talking about.

Now wait, in the meantime, what are people to do? I understand there's been a bit of a problem getting replacement air bags. What is the solution for people that have this vehicle? Or any of these vehicles.

MARSH: So the question is if you expand this recall even wider because already up until now eight million vehicles had had already been recalled and now we're adding millions more to the list. The question is will they have enough parts to replace them? It remains to be seen. We do know that Takata told NHTSA that they are trying to increase their production of replacement parts.

But the question is what do consumers do now? There is a safercar.gov app that you can sign up on your phone. You get all right when you get information as far as specific makes and models. That will come directly to your phone. Check with the manufacturer. Check with the NHTSA web site if you want to know if your car is affected -- Michaela?

PEREIRA: Thanks so much for that. Keep us posted. We appreciate it.

Ahead @THISHOUR, President Obama is poised to go alone on immigration. Now some in his own party want him to wait. What's at stake inside the Beltway? And what's at stake for the millions of immigrant families from coast to coast? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: @THISHOUR, President Obama is meeting with school suspects and other educators around the nation. They are talking about the transition to digital learning. In just a few minutes' time, the president is due to sign a bill authorizing federal money for child care.

As important as those issues are, it seems to be immigration stealing the spotlight lately. The president as soon as this week is expected to issue an executive order designed to overhaul the nation's broken and fractured immigration system and possibly protect millions from deportation. But now many, including some of his own party, want him to wait a little bit.

Joining me now, CNN commentator and "Daily Beast" contributor, Ruben Navarrette; and former New Mexico governor, Bill Richardson.

A pleasure to have you both with me today.

We keep talking about this project. We're all in the same boat of wanting some solutions however we know it's not easy.

Ruben, I'll start you.

Democrats want the president now to delay any executive action. Do you think that's the right move?

RUBEN NAVARRETTE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think that's the right move. I think those Democrats are wrong. I want to say thank you for having me on, Michaela. And great to be on with my friend, Bill Richardson.

I will tell you this party, the Democrat party, is split on the immigration issue as follows. There are those who see themselves as protecting American workers from competition. They're afraid to legalize these undocumented immigrants will create competition. The other part of it is that they are concerned they have to adopt this program that if people are blamed from this, it will be 2018 and beyond so it's every man for himself. PEREIRA: That's a tenuous situation at best, an already tenuous

situation.

Governor, I'm curious about delaying this action and delaying any addressing of the broken system here in the United States. I wonder if the president doesn't risk alienate ago great portion of his base, of folks in the Latino community, particularly if he doesn't act emphatically and soon.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO: Well, that is human issue. This is about people, not process, not legalisms. The president should do it. He listened to bad advice and waited before the election not to do it. I think it turned out in Colorado but it's not a political issue. You're talking about human beings. What we're talking about is just a part time solution so they can stay and work. We're talking about four to five million people. They won't be legalized or get citizenship. That would come in a later immigration bill. It's typical. I used to be a politician, I still am. You want a delay, you want to hear the Democrats saying let's wait until the omnibus spending bill. No, he should do it now because it's the right thing to do. This is a contentious Congress and a contentious executive bra branch. They're going to keep fighting. He should get it done. And I agree with my friend, Ruben, who is one of our best journalists.

PEREIRA: It's interesting, Governor, you talk about the fact that, as a politician, you know about the bureaucracy. But the fact is, and you've up touched on it, I want you to expand on it. That is human issue and there are lives of people hanging in the balance while the Congress batties this about and debate this is and makes no move on it.

RICHARDSON: That's right, Michaela. There's four to five million people that have been waiting for years. The Congress was supposed to act, they didn't do it. The president was going to act before the election. I think he listened to bad advice. Now the advice again, bipartisan, is wait until after we get things through the Congress. Well, they're going to get very little done through the Congress and these human beings, they're kids, moms and dads that reason working here lawfully working and they want to come out of the shadows and be able to not fear being deported, sent back to Mexico. It's a human issue. We should stop process and delays. The president should just -- he has the legal authority he that has authority under enforcement. The executive branch enforces immigration laws. That's what I would do. Sign it, do it tomorrow. Do it today.

PEREIRA: So interesting, Ruben -- and I didn't let you get a chance to talk about the governor's fantastic compliment of your journalism skills. But I want to ask you about this shift we're seeing. Some of our sources here at CNN tells us it looks like White House plans are no longer going to include this path to legal status for parents who brought children to the U.S. illegally. That's a shift. I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

NAVARRETTE: Michaela, this is huge. If this is true this is a big deal because this would be about 70 percent or 80 percent of the impacted population. You have these reports that between four or five million people might be impacted. Three million of that group, most of it, was the parents of U.S.-born children. If these reports are true and that comes out, this is taking the wind out of the sails here for the administration. And it's also important because there's long been this argument somehow that these parents are anchored here by their children, and that isn't the case. People are deported all the time, even with U.S.-born children, who end up in foster care and other scenarios that are very bleak. This is a very difficult part of the discussion and I can understand why the administration is being careful with it.

PEREIRA: Careful is important. Unnecessary delays are concerning. We'll keep on top of this topic at CNN.

Governor Richardson and Ruben Navarrette, thank you so much for joining me. Great conversation.

Ahead @THISHOUR, a horrifying situation in Jerusalem. Terrorists wielding butcher knives killed five in a synagogue there. The concern is could this attract copy cats in the U.S.? The attacks in Jerusalem have some worried.

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DANIEL BENJAMIN, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR-AT-LARGE & STATE DEPARTMENT COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR: -- state and some related to the events in Israel. And these are a policeman's nightmare.

PEREIRA: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that they will respond harshly, heavy-handed response. How do you expect that will manifest itself?

BENJAMIN: The Israelis frequently demolish the Houses of those who are involved in such attacks. That will put their families out on the street. These have historically had some deterrent effects. But they certainly don't improve the mood or reduce tensions. And that could have some serious consequences in an area where tensions are extremely high already over the controversy about closure in the Noble Sanctuary, the Temple Mount, where Muslims have been restricted from praying and where there have been a number of killings using vehicles and other sort of improvised weaponry. So I'm afraid we're in for some really tense times in Israel right now.

PEREIRA: It's interesting, you talk about improving the mood and hopefully reducing tensions. Pope Francis condemned the attack as well. And I want to read to you what he has said. He "appealed to all the parties involved to put an end to the spiral of hatred and violence and to take courageous decisions for reconciliation and peace." He says "to build peace is difficult but to live without it is torment."

Perhaps torment is what we're seeing there. What do you think has to happen that a measure of peace can be attained? BENJAMIN: Well, I have to say it's a pretty gloomy outlook at the

moment, since the collapse of Secretary Kerry's peace initiative. There have been a lot of fears we would see a spike in violence and that has, in fact, taken place. And it's worth remembering that the second infatada broke out after the collapse of the Clinton administration's efforts at Camp David and afterwards. And absent any developments that suggest some reconciliation between the parties, we're going to have a poor outlook for some time to come. Police efforts, intelligence efforts, those will be important to reducing the violence. And, of course, the Palestinian Authority has come out strongly against the violence. But there are a lot of very depressed and very angry people in the region. And so the violence could well continue.

PEREIRA: That is something that we all hate to hear. But as you mentioned, it very well likely is the reality.

Ambassador Daniel Benjamin, thank you so much for joining me.

Ahead @THISHOUR, it is a day for family, a day for food, and now it's apparently a day for shopping. Stores on Thanksgiving set to be open ahead of Black Friday? The question is, will it pay off?

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PEREIRA: As retailers vie for our precious dollars, a moral dilemma is emerging ahead of the holiday season. Should stores be open on Thanksgiving Day, a day meant for family, football and giving thanks, a day ahead of Black Friday? Many will be open. In fact, some are even extending their hours. Case in point, Kmart, bragging they're going to stay open for 42 hours straight beginning at 6:00 in the morning on Thanksgiving. On the flip side, stores like T.J. Maxx say, no, we're staying closed so our employees can enjoy time with their families.

Joining me now is CNN chief business correspondent, Christine Romans.

How much pressure are these retailers feeling?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They're feeling a lot of pressure to do this. We're not talking about Black Friday. It is established. People are going to go out and look for bargains. We're talking about Thanksgiving, the actual holiday, a national holiday. There's a lot of pressure.

There's one mall outside of Buffalo, New York, where the mall is saying, you must be open or you'll be fined $200 per hour that you are not open. We want to have all the stores here open so people can have the full retail experience. Yet, there are others who are not. You mentioned T.J. Maxx, they're closed, Barnes & Noble, Crate & Barrel, REI. I have a long list of companies who will not be opened on Thanksgiving Day. Costco is one of them. They say their employees deserve a day off.

PEREIRA: The fact is all of those places have a dotcom attached to them. And they could easily see sales on line. You could shop online, and still eat turkey and wash dishes and still watch the football game.

ROMANS: There's good analysis that says you might not see those crazy rushes at the door this year because you can get deals online. There are better deals closer to Christmas and right after Christmas. So if you're looking for deals, if that's why you're really out there shopping, a lot of people shop on Black Friday for themselves, quite frankly. But we're talking about the Thursday. So it's a lot of mission creep here. You have a lot of choices when to shop.

PEREIRA: Sometimes people just need a little break from the family.

ROMANS: Not my family.

PEREIRA: Here's the question, is retail coming back after the recession?

ROMANS: Yes, it is. It is. The earnings reports I've seen on renovation, for example, Lowe's had its earnings report. People are renovating their homes. They're spending money again. Gas prices are falling. A lot of these big retailers think the gas savings prices are going to find their way into holiday sales. There is reason to be optimistic.

I think the online quotient of this, though, and the sales closer to Christmas, if you are a savvy shopper, that's where you want to be looking, online and closer to Christmas.

PEREIRA: We're savvy shoppers. You have made me more savvy.

ROMANS: Really? I'm glad to hear that.

PEREIRA: Yes, I'm a better person financially because of you, Christine Romans.

ROMANS: If you can't pay it off by January, don't buy it. You can live without something. If you can't pay it off by January, you don't need it.

PEREIRA: Christine Romans with the wise word of the day.

(LAUGHTER)

Tweet us. We want to know what you think.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Should stores be open on Thanksgiving?

Thanks for joining me. I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman will be back eventually, we promise.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.