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NEW DAY

National Guard to Deploy In Ferguson; Mixed Reaction to Obama's Plans On Immigration; Interview with Rep. Keith Ellison; Black and Blue: Frisked Without Cause; Three Americans Killed in Jerusalem Terror Attack

Aired November 18, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Want to turn now to Ferguson once again. As the nation waits for a grand jury to decide whether or not to indict a Ferguson police officer for the shooting death of Michael Brown, Missouri's governor not taking any chances. He's calling in the National Guard; he's declaring a state of emergency just in case the officer is cleared and violence flares once again, a strong possibility according to the latest guidance from the FBI.

We want to head to St. Louis now and bring in Liz Brown. She is a columnist for the "St. Louis American." We've had you with us on the show before, really glad to speak to you again.

I'm really curious about your reaction to the governor's declaration of a state of emergency and calling in the National Guard. You see this as -- some people are couching it, as preemptive preparation or do you see this as a provocation?

LIZ BROWN, COLUMNIST, "ST. LOUIS AMERICAN": I think both of it -- both of them, but not necessarily from that perspective. It's a provocation, it's an act of -- it's a provocation, because what it assumes it is by looking at the citizens' actions that the citizens are being looked at as walking criminal acts.

We also have to ask the question of whether or not it's even legal for the governor to preemptively declare a state of emergency. There has to be a man-made disaster of major proportions. So what is the man- made disaster of major proportions that would allow a governor to declare a state of emergency?

Because if we are going to declare an emergency based upon what we think people are going to do, let's start with NBA playoffs. We know that there's rioting in the streets. We know there are actions that are lawless. So every time there's an NBA playoff final -- let's declare a state of emergency.

PEREIRA: Interesting perspective. I want to play a little bit of sound from the mayor of St. Louis, describing the role of the guard saying they're not going to be on the front lines. Take a listen and I'll get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR FRANCIS G. SLAY (D), ST. LOUIS: This would be from our standpoint, a secondary role. We would not have the guard on the front lines interacting with, dealing with confronting protesters. They would be used for three different approaches. One would be visibility, deterrence and then the other, early warnings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: The concern last time when there were officers of the law there, there was concern that it gave the appearance of a militarized zone. Yet we hear the mayor talking about the fact that this would be more of an interaction, conversation, that they would be there as a visibility. Do you think there's a mixed message going on here?

Did we lose Liz? Liz, are you able to hear me anymore? I think we may have lost our communication link with Liz. She's not able to hear us now. We were hoping to -- she's back now? Liz, can you hear me now? All right, unfortunately, that we lost that because there's a lot of conversation going on.

A lot of people are wondering with all this preparation, where are the calls for peace. You know the community leaders were quite vocal in Ferguson over the summer and many people are wondering, are there people call for peace now as we prepare for this decision to be released.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The man said he runs the local paper and works the community pretty hard. We hope that's true. All these things go together. The state needs to prepare for what's going to happen there. They were not prepared the last time. So you just have to hope that --

PEREIRA: But there's nuance in it, though, right?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Michael Brown's family is calling for peace. So obviously we will watch what happen there.

Also, when will President Obama use his executive authority to reform immigration? And when he does, will it go far enough or too far? We'll discuss all of this with Democratic Congressman Keith Ellison.

CUOMO: And an Australian anchor makes a point that I think is a very good one. You see what's the same and what's different and what you're seeing here over and over, this woman has to wear something different every day, not this cat.

But he is changing his shirt and tie, the same suit every day for a year. It raises the question, is it really this, just complete double standard for women and men and how they dress on air?

CAMEROTA: Of course, it is. She changed her hair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The president warning he's willing to take executive action on immigration. Millions of undocumented immigrants could be granted amnesty in an effort the president says to keep families together. The Republicans call this overreach and an abuse of executive power. Let's bring in Congressman Keith Ellison, who is a Democrat from Minnesota and the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Good morning, Congressman.

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Good morning, how are you doing, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Doing well. We understand that you have strong feelings about what the president should do with immigration. What's your suggestion?

ELLISON: I think the president should use the authority he lawfully has to try to advance the ball on immigration reform. We support it from the progressive caucus standpoint. We think uniting families is important. We think that these are critical considerations and the president should move forward.

The Republicans can put up a bill and we can vote on it. But they haven't done that they refused to. So if they refuse to act, the president must act because the country needs it.

CAMEROTA: Well, here is Senator Mike Lee explaining that if the president does act, he's actually going against the will of the American people. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: He can listen to the American people, who have just spoken, just weeks after he said his policies will be on the ballot and one of those policies was in fact possible executive action on amnesty. He can list tonight American people, which I think would be good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Congressman, does Senator Lee have a point? The American people voted in Republicans during the midterms.

ELLISON: Well, you know we had a 72-year low in voter turn-out, 36 percent of the American public turned out to vote. I don't really call that a mandate. What did Senator Lee say about the fact that in several states things that are progressive policies like increasing the minimum wage won and even though the Democrats didn't.

I mean, the fact is the electorate has a lot of complicated things it thinks, but the fact is that there's no mandate here. What there is, is obstruction and stymieing from Republicans and the president should forward for the betterment of the nation.

CAMEROTA: All right, Congressman, let's move on to Ferguson, as you know, they are on tender hooks waiting to see what the grand jury will decide there. Have you had discussions with officials in Ferguson or the Congressional Black Caucus about how to provide leadership and preserve some calm there?

ELLISON: Well, you know, Lacy Clay is the congressman who has been closest to this issue. We've been consulting with them. We do urge calm. We want to uphold safety for everyone. But there's no doubt that these, these issues, when there's clear or it seems like there's substantial evidence.

That a citizen has been abused, mistreated, excessive force and the justice system doesn't seem to deliver. People's emotions run high, but we urge people to be calm and seek out the constructive solution.

CAMEROTA: I mean, of course, the Ferguson Police Department says there's not substantial evidence that there was excessive force used. They say that Michael Brown was the aggressor. I mean, what will you say -- given that you see it so differently, what will you say if the grand jury decides not to indict?

ELLISON: Well, I want to see what happens before I start predicting what I'm going to say. But what I can tell you is that having practiced law for 16 years, an indictment is really a tool of the prosecutor. If they want one, they're going to get it.

So I mean, there is no hiding behind the grand jury here, what will happen here is an expression of the will of the law enforcement authorities in that jurisdiction.

CAMEROTA: Have you spoken to President Obama about the situation in Ferguson?

ELLISON: No, I have not.

CAMEROTA: Because we had heard that he had been meeting with some congressional leaders and he was considering what his reaction would be and whether or not he should go there. Do you have any recommendation on that front?

ELLISON: Well, I think that it's important for our criminal justice system in the United States to understand that the police have a duty to protect and serve the public. We can't have a situation where whole sections of the public feel that they're over-policed and under- protected.

You know, whether you look at the -- there's numbers of situations all over the country where these sort of tensions have erupted and have caused a great deal of damage. It's time to get to the root of the problem and promote justice for all Americans including the Mike Browns of this world.

CAMEROTA: One topic we wanted to talk to you about today is developing stories overnight. We understand the White House is reviewing its policy of how to deal when American hostages are taken overseas. Some hostages' families feel that the government has actually sort of threatened them, when they've been trying to get their loved ones back.

However, they can they feel that our U.S. government has threatened them with prosecution and has been an impediment to them trying to do what they can do to protect their loved ones. How do you think the U.S. government should handle this? ELLISON: Of course, my compassion runs to the families. These are horrific barbaric acts of terrorism that have been committed against these three Americans. But this issue is not so simple. Once you start paying ransoms, then you make more Americans target.

Then these people like ISIS and others will capture people because they know they're going to get paid. This is not a simple issue. You have the clear emotional needs of the family to protect their loved ones. And on the other side you've got a policy where if we start down this road, I believe we will regret it even more.

I think it's appropriate for the president to review the policy to try to see if we are pursuing the right policy, to see if it can be improved. At the end of the day, this is a very knotty subject pitting personal family needs against the general needs of the whole. So I do urge the president to review the policy, understanding that this is a very complicated issue.

CAMEROTA: It sure is. It's a tough one. Congressman Keith Ellison, thanks so much for joining us this morning with all of your thoughts on NEW DAY. Great to see you.

ELLISON: Anytime. Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: Cops say they're doing it to keep you safe. But it appears innocent men are being stopped and frisked for no reason. Is stop and frisk part of the solution or part of the problem? CNN's new documentary film "BLACK AND BLUE" covers this. And Soledad O'Brien is here to give you a preview. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From 2002 to mid-2013, New York City Police reported making nearly five million stops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't sleep until he comes home quite frankly. And I know he is not in cuffs or in anybody's morgue. The fact that it happens just about every single day is overwhelming and can lead you to lose your head. But then, your future ends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was a clip from a new installment of CNN's "BLACK IN AMERICA" series, from award-journalist and CEO of Starfish Media Group, Soledad O'Brien. The documentary film "BLACK AND BLUE" takes us into the lives of men frisked without cause as many 100 times and the police officers who insist that they're doing it to fight crime.

This special will premier tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern on CNN. And Soledad O'Brien joins us now. Great to see you, Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CEO, STARFISH MEDIA GROUP: Thank you and likewise. That's Keyshawn, he said he's been stopped 100 times by the police often on his way to college classes, often with his classmates and police and professors walking by and police have asked to open his backpack.

And never once have they found anything, as a young man who's never been in any kind of legal trouble. And we thought he was a good example of how frustrating it is for many young men of color, black and Latino, who are constantly stopped by the police in these efforts to stop crime.

But actually often aren't doing anything wrong, and what that does for someone's psyche and does in the community as well.

CAMEROTA: Now of course, the NYPD will say that crime rates have plummeted since they began the stop and frisk program. New York City used to be a dangerous place in the '80s. Your cars were constantly being broken into or stolen. There were all sorts of drug crime. It's the broken windows theory that if you stop it before it happens, the crime rate comes down.

O'BRIEN: The broken windows theory is that if you take something like a broken window and react strongly to that, you're stopping a more serious crime from happening down the road and there are many people who would say there is no real evidence that broken windows policing is working although, certainly the police commissioner thinks so and has actually upped his broken windows policing.

CAMEROTA: But then how would they explain the plummeting of the crime rate in New York if that theory doesn't work?

O'BRIEN: Crime is plummeting everywhere, number one. And there's no indication that a massive number of stop and frisk, we mentioned 5 million that have netted 80 percent are black and Latino people, in which most cases, 90 plus percent of the time, nothing was found.

There were no charges. There were no weapons. There was nothing that was found on that person. That means you have a whole bunch of people who have been stopped for no reason at all.

And I look at the example of, if I were walking down the street in my neighborhood and police said to me, come over here. I want to go through your handbag.

The first time I might be upset. The tenth time, I would be furious. The 50th time would say, why are you targeting me? I'm going to guess that doesn't happen in your neighborhood or my neighborhood. But it does happen in neighborhoods where police have been very strong about that.

CAMEROTA: And your cameras captured another exchange between someone who was supposedly minding his business. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would I say that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're checking to see if somebody --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just trying to see if my ride is coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go inside right now. Go inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not even doing anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go up the stairs right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What's the backstory?

O'BRIEN: So a young man says that he's hanging out outside waiting for his ride to come. His cousin lives in the building. They're waiting for the ride to come. The police come up, and the entire exchange goes on for a couple of minutes.

The police are the only once are cursing. The young men never once use foul language. The police say, do you want me to put you in cuffs? He's like, I can't understand. What do you mean? Do you want me to put you in handcuffs?

And you see in this exchange sort of the incredible disrespect that's being shown to these guys who are literally standing there waiting for their ride. The policeman doesn't say, you guys are blocking the door, would you mind going in.

The question that we're trying to answer in this documentary is one of balance. Where is the line? What do you do to keep communities safe, but at the same time, not trample on somebody's civil rights? That's kind of a challenging question.

CAMEROTA: We will look forward to watching your special tonight. It sounds like it will be extremely compelling. Soledad O'Brien, great to see you.

O'BRIEN: My pleasure. Nice to see you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for being here.

O'BRIEN: You bet.

CUOMO: All right, we want to talk to you about breaking news. We have new details emerging about the grisly attack at a synagogue in Jerusalem. Americans are among the fatalities. We'll take you live there and talk with a spokesman for the Israeli police who was at the scene. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, November 18th, 8:00 on the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here with breaking news, three of the four people killed in this morning's barbaric attack at a synagogue in Jerusalem are Israeli-Americans.

Police say two Palestinians stormed the synagogue and assaulted worshippers with axes and knives. Hamas is celebrating the attack and Israeli's prime minister is vowing a strong response.

CAMEROTA: The deadly rampage left six others injured and the U.S. and Israel are condemning the attack as terrors and tensions are spiking with fears growing of another flare-up in this region, of course, ages-old conflict. CNN's Ben Wedeman is live for us in Jerusalem. Ben, what do we know?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, what we know at this point is that the tensions are really focused on Jerusalem itself, unlike the conflict this summer with Gaza. And this is, as far as we can tell, the worst attack in Jerusalem in six years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Breaking overnight, a deadly terror attack shattering the peace of early morning prayers inside a Jerusalem synagogue. They used axes and knives to attack the people. Police say two Palestinian men armed with knives, axes, and a handgun entered the building in an orthodox neighborhood in West Jerusalem.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This is -- simply has no place in human behavior.

WEDEMAN: The assailants traveling from East Jerusalem, killing four Israeli civilians and injuring six others including two responding police officers. This video shows Israeli police trying to enter the synagogue to stop the attackers, were then shot and killed by police.

Israeli authorities calling this one of the deadliest terror attacks in the city in years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you saw today is slaughter of innocent people, while they're praying in a synagogue.

NIR BARKAT, JERUSALEM MAYOR: If the world doesn't unite against terrorism and give zero excuses for terrorism, this will haunt the world.

WEDEMAN: A spokesman for Hamas, quickly praising what happened is justifiable revenge for the death of a Palestinian bus driver found hanged in his bus Sunday. But Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the attack.

As did Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying, Israel will respond with a heavy hand. His office posting on his official Twitter account, this attack is the latest and most violent amid months of soaring tensions in the holy city, with a wave of attacks and kidnappings in recent weeks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: And the question is, of course, what can the Israeli authorities do to stop these attacks? It's important to keep in mind that most of the perpetrators are coming from East Jerusalem, which is under Israeli control, the security control. So it's very difficult to stop these and the authorities are pondering what possible measures.

Now, I spoke to one Israeli official who said that they may go back to this old system that goes back to the British mandate of house demolitions to try to deter any further attacks -- Chris.

CAMEROTA: Ben, I'll take it. It's all so complicated and also, the question of what a heavy-handed response will look like. Thanks so much.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, as you can see, we're switching guests there. Let's bring in Aaron David Miller, former adviser to six secretaries of state and vice president for new initiatives and distinguished scholar for the Woodrow Wilson International Center.

We're also going to have Micky Rosenfeld, foreign press spokesman for the Israeli police. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.