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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Controversy over Bill Cosby's Past; Obama to Go it Alone on Immigration; New York City Police Tactic of Stop and Frisk; Pope Francis to Visit U.S. Next Fall

Aired November 17, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That was Bill Cosby performing over the week end in eerie, Pennsylvania. He is now involved in a fresh controversy over his past. His attorney says Cosby will not respond to "decade-old discredited claims of sexual assaults." These accusations have been made by several women.

Over the weekend, Cosby was interviewed by Scott Simon on NPR and was asked about those claims. Later, the interviewer spoke to CNN about Cosby's body language at that moment during the interview. Take a listen.

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SCOTT SIMON, NPR RADIO HOST: This question gives me no pleasure, Mr. Cosby, but there have been serious allegations raised about you in recent days. You're shaking your head no. I'm in the news business. I have to ask the question. Do you have any response to those charges? Shaking your head no. There are people who love you who might like to hear from you about this. I want to give you the chance. All right.

He gave what I would refer to is that delightful impish little Cosby smile at first and then was silent, didn't answer the quest question.

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PEREIRA: That was Scott Simon from NPR, talking to us here at CNN.

Let's get a little deeper. Eric Dezenhall, we've had him with us before.

It seems like a crisis management consultant is a busy person this year. Of course you're the author of "Glass Jaw, A Manifesto for Defending Fragile Reputations in the Age of Instant Scandal." I don't know, I've been having this discussion with a few of my colleagues here, Eric. Dammed if you do, damned if you don't. What's your reaction to how Cosby handled or didn't handle the questions from Scott Simon on NPR?

ERIC DEZENHALL, CRISIS MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT & AUTHOR: Well, the rules have changed. Let me tell you the good news and the bad news. The good news is if you're Bill Cosby, you're 77 years old, you're not at the beginning of your career, you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars, you can take your toys and go home and refuse to play in this media farce that we're dealing with surrounding this. And he doesn't have to. He can be silent. That's the good news. The bad news is this is a classic glass jaw scenario where a punch from the past can destroy a career and if he wants to continue having new shows -- and apparently one is in the works -- or product endorsements or things like that, there is going to be an expectation that he talks more. I have to tell you, 20 years ago there would have been no question what the advice would have been which would have been to go on Oprah and talk about it. The problem is, you're dealing with the Twitter-sphere now where every time you open your mouth, when you have motivated adversaries, they will 100 percent of the time declare your interview to have been botched, it will be declared to be an outrage and it will ignite further rounds of coverage and something like this will never go away. So it's a viable choice he's taking.

PEREIRA: I have to ask you, "media farce," what do you mean by that, Eric?

DEZENHALL: I think that by -- you can't call allegations of sexual assault anything other than very serious. But what happens now is a concept I write about called the fiasco vortex where you have media coverage of something like this that metastasizes no matter what you do. And regardless of the old school of thought that you get it all out there, you do your interview and it goes away, the fact is, is with the social media environment, off self-feeding situation where every time you open your mouth not only does it not back off your critics, it makes the Twitter-sphere and media cycle even worse.

PEREIRA: Yeah. I have so many questions for you. Maybe we can talk about it more because I feel like this will be a topic we'll be discussing for some time. I have questions about legacy, what it means for someone.

DEZENHALL: It means a lot. It's very serious.

PEREIRA: It does.

We have to leave it here right now but maybe, Eric, we can talk about it again, okay?

DEZENHALL: Sure, thank you.

PEREIRA: We should mention, a new accuser has come forward with her story. She's going to air it tonight. She'll reveal troubling details of an assault she alleges happened at the hands of Bill Cosby. That's tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on CNN.

Ahead here, a defiant President Obama may go it alone on immigration reform. How the new Republican controlled Congress will react if he does. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: I spoke earlier today with actress, Diane Guerrero, of the hit series "Orange is the New Black." She came home when she was 14 years old to find her Colombian parents and older brother had been deported.

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DIANE GUERRERO, ACTRESS: I got home and their cars were there and dinner was started and the lights were on but I couldn't find them. It was really hard. It was really hard. And then the neighbors came in.

PEREIRA: That's how you found out they were gone? The neighbors told you?

GUERRERO: Uh-huh, they were just like, I'm so sorry, your parents were taken away.

PEREIRA: What does that feel like? That seems to be every child's worse nightmare that your family is taken from you.

GUERRERO: I broke down, you know? I remember I like -- I hid under the bed because I was afraid that somebody was going to come for me. I don't know who that someone was, but -- I was just so scared. It's like what do you do? I'm so scared for them, what they're going through. My parents are going to jail, and for what? I didn't consider them criminals.

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PEREIRA: Such a complex issue.

Let's bring in our CNN commentator, Ruben Navarrette; and Republican strategist, Bettina Inclan.

I appreciate you coming to talk about this.

There's no easy solution, we can all agree on that.

Ruben, I want to start with you.

You wrote an op-ed on CNN.com. I want to read it. Talking about the president has been one of the most aggressive in deportations. You wrote, "Obama deported a record two million people in five years, divided hundreds of thousands of families, failed to deal effectively with thousands of child refugees who streamed across the U.S./Mexico border last summer, then broke another promise when he said he would take executive action on immigration before the midterm elections but blinked." So why change course now?

RUBEN NAVARRETTE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Michaela, great to be with you and good to be with my good friend, Bettina Inclan, as well. To change course, I think he's probably had it with this issue, witness to resolve it. He's had it with Republican obstructionist philosophy that says basically we're not going to do anything. But when you try to do something we're going say "leave us alone so we can work." That's a joke. They're not doing any work on immigration and I think he wants to try to make life better in a temporary way for some group of the 11 million who are here: some segment of it. It gets complicated when you look at the details for sure. But I this is a piecemeal way of going. It's not through to full legal status, which the president can't do any way. It's not permanent residency or amnesty. It's a little weak, but at the same time I think it's a step in the right direction.

PEREIRA: It's interesting, Bettina, we have heard time and time again the GOP saying, "Don't go down this path, don't go down this path." Yet, it seems apparently the president is planning to do just that.

BETTINA INCLAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah. I think the general idea is that people are really frustrated with the president. I agree with Ruben. Both sides have used immigration as a political football. But as we look forward and figure out what is the best course forward, we have to ask, is this really about the policy or the politics? This president is using immigration as a political maneuver to defend his legacy and we just had an election.

The voters were very clear on what they wanted. They don't want any more gridlock in Washington. They want both parties to work together. This is not a way to work together. From everyone I've talked to in Washington, there's a lot of consensus that they want immigration reform to move forward. But what he's doing is just taking the rug out of this new Congress, not letting them even discuss this and moving unilaterally is not a way to build consensus and build bipartisanship and get a real reform done, not these band-aid solutions that only are temporary fixes.

PEREIRA: So what is the solution, Bettina? Because I think there is such a level of frustration. I think one of the things we also learned from the midterm is that there's a great deal of frustration from the constituents, from the voters that the threat of a shot down once again, the fact that essentially stalled. We all agree that it's broken. How do we fix it?

INCLAN: I think one of the things that the president has to do is work with the new Congress. If he wants to give them a timeline, hey, we're going to -- I'm giving you until February, March, to get something passed, at least give them the opportunity. But he's not giving them an opportunity. I think Ruben was talking before about this president has never made immigration reform a priority. He's promised over and over again that he's going to get something done and now after the election he decides he's going to push these things forward and really create a situation that's going to be very difficult for both Congress and the White House to work together on other policies like trade, like energy policy. And he's just making it chaotic so many different ways. I think everybody believes immigration is a problem that we need fix, but we have to ask, is this the best way forward? Is this going to create the change needed for so many families to get the necessary status that they need?

PEREIRA: I have to interrupt you for a second. I want to give you a quick final button on this.

NAVARRETTE: Sure. Sure. To push back against my friend just a bit, she doesn't speak for all Republicans on this matter. There are Republicans throughout who say this isn't a small thing or quick fix but really Obama going to too far and overreaching. First contradiction. Second contradiction is I hear all the time from conservatives that the election proved people don't want Congress to work with the president. So let me get this straight, Republicans are saying Congress shouldn't work with the president but if you listen to Bettina the president should work with Congress. Doesn't quite work that way.

PEREIRA: Clearly, there is a lot that needs to be worked out in this issue. And, again, going back to this, there are lives hanging in the balance, people's families are being separated, the costs. We can go on and on about why this needs to be a priority and get worked out.

Bettina, Ruben, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

Ahead @THISHOUR, another controversial topic we'll talk about, Stop and Frisk. It's the New York City police tactic. It's been ruled unconstitutional. However, many believe innocent minorities are still being targeted. Soledad O'Brien is here today. She's going talk about her new documentary called "Black and Blue."

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PEREIRA: Stop and Frisk, it's a controversial police tactic. It's been ruled unconstitutional, but despite the public outcry against it, many say innocent minorities are still being targeted. The lives of many young people fractured by aggressive policing.

Take a look at a clip from a brand-new CNN documentary called "Black and Blue."

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SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CEO STARFISH MEDIA (voice-over): From 2002 to 2013, New York City Police reported making nearly five million stops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't sleep until he comes home, quite frankly, and I know he's not in cuffs or in anybody's morgue. The fact that it happens just about every single day is overwhelming and can lead you to lose your head, but then your future ends.

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PEREIRA: Concern of so many mothers.

Soledad O'Brien, CEO, of Starfish Media, is here to talk about her brand-new film.

This is an infuriating issue on board for many people.

O'BRIEN: And a hot button one, too. Often with his professors and classmates with police going through his backpacks and this is a kid would has no legal each. He's never been in any kind of legal trouble. He's very frustrated. We wanted to examine, first of all, what's the impact on the psyche if, in fact, you're stopped over and over and over again and most of which turned into nothing. There was no legal case. They never pursued anything further. And also, how do the police need to do what they need to do, which is essentially not trampling on the civil rights of the people in the community.

Is that the justification? You look at the statistics, 80 percent are black and are Latin American. That's pretty shocking.

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PEREIRA: Is that the justification?

O'BRIEN: I think the justification is, well, it's they fit the profile. You're not allowed to stop someone unless there's reasonable suspicion. So often they will say they fit a profile. They match the suspect profile. I think often people are concerned that, in fact, that's made up. So it is. It's a challenge. How do you navigate that line of protecting the community, the people who are at most interesting at times to interview are black police officers?

PEREIRA: Yeah.

O'BRIEN: Some of whom will tell us that they, in fact, have stopped themselves and have been stopped and frisked.

PEREIRA: They have to have the same conversations with their sons about how they comport themselves.

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PEREIRA: Conversations that we've had here @THISHOUR.

This is going to be fantastic and I encourage everybody to watch it.

Really a delight to have you here. Thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: Thank you. Appreciate it.

PEREIRA: Let me point to where you can see it. It's called "Black & Blue." It airs tomorrow night on CNN at 9:00 eastern.

Thanks, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: My pleasure.

PEREIRA: Ahead, a big visit next year. Guess who is coming. The Pope. The Vatican announced a visit to the U.S. next fall. We'll discuss the itinerary and the significance of the visit.

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PEREIRA: An immensely popular figure will visit the United States next summer. Pope Francis making his visit as head of the Catholic Church. The archbishop of Philadelphia, who was in Rome for the announcement, says he is overjoyed. He adds, "The pope's charisma will electrify the gathering."

We'll be talking about it here. So has our next guest, our Vatican commentator, the Reverend Beck.

I can't imagine the ripples this has had through the diocese and communities across the nation. Pretty exciting. Will he get the rock star welcome we should anticipate?

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN VATICAN COMMENTATOR: Well, they are already saying in Philadelphia over a million will come.

PEREIRA: Wow.

BECK: The speculation is, where else will he go? If he's coming to the United States, it's not going to be just to Philadelphia. The U.N. Assembly is meeting at the same time. So he may go there. He's been invited to the joint session of Congress in Washington. So he may be going there.

PEREIRA: If somebody can get Congress to behave, it could be this man.

BECK: You never know. And then the outlier is he has said he wants to go to the Mexico and U.S. border to all these immigrants. And I don't know if you saw "60 Minutes" last night with Sean O'Malley, the cardinal of Boston, but he was giving communion through the fence to those undocumented people. This is a special concern of Pope Francis. What do we do with all of these people? If he goes there, that will really be interesting. All of that is unconfirmed. The only thing confirmed is Philadelphia.

PEREIRA: Given the time that we are in and the things going on and the work that he has chosen to do, he's the pope of the people. All of those things you've talked about are going to reach out and touch other people. To that end, we can't help but ask, will he address the church abuse scandal? And will it help if he faces it head-on?

BECK: I think if he comes to the United States, he cannot not address it. You have Sean O'Malley, the head of Boston. Some say he'll go to Boston. That is where this all began in Boston when it started to break in this country. And it has been seen as an American problem.

PEREIRA: Yeah.

BECK: Not true. It's a worldwide problem.

PEREIRA: No. It's interesting how it has been seen that way.

BECK: It has been seen that way. So if he could comes here maybe with Sean O'Malley and address the issue. There are some bishops here that say you have to move on it, like Bishop Finn. Cardinal O'Malley was asked that last night, why is he a bishop if he knew a priest was looking at child porn and can't do anything to that priest. So things kinds of things, Pope Francis has said he is committed to addressing. Coming to the United States may be an opportunity to really do it.

PEREIRA: Well, especially because he has not been afraid. He is his own man, a man of God. He's still his own man. He's not afraid to do things his own way.

I'm really curious how the reaction will be. Mostly, this will be planned well in advance, correct?

BECK: Yes.

PEREIRA: You've already given us a great deal of information that we knew, visiting the U.N., a visit to Philadelphia. Will there be any room for spontaneousness or will that not be feasible?

BECK: You can expect he will not stay on script. He will go to people he's not supposed to go to and he will say things he's not supposed to say. This is part of the man. Expect it.

PEREIRA: We can't wait. More information will be coming in the coming days and weeks.

Father Edward Beck, nice to have you here.

BECK: My pleasure.

PEREIRA: Anticipation. That's September 2015. We have time to plan.

That wraps it up for us here, I guess, for me here since I'm alone. No John Berman today. Thanks for joining me.

"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield is coming up next.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to "Legal View."

We have some breaking news this hour. At any moment, we're expected to hear from the Nebraska Medical Center about that second Ebola death that occurred here in the United States. The doctor --