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CNN NEWSROOM

Immigration Battle; Ferguson Prepares for Michael Brown Decision

Aired November 14, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: One of the brilliant scientists behind mankind's first landing on a comet was in tears today, and not over this amazing story, the first in space history, 10 years in the making, but over a shirt. You see this? Critics decried Matt Taylor's shirt, calling it sexist. I'm trying to look at it to see what I think.

You see him wearing it here on the British program called "Nature News Steam." It showed scantily clad women. Earlier this morning, he apologized and actually broke down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT TAYLOR, ROSETTA MISSION SCIENTIST: The shirt I wore this week, I made a big mistake. And I offended many people.

And I'm very sorry about this. I have just come over from the MCR. I was there with my colleagues here. We have been trying to shift and rearrange things, as (INAUDIBLE) is alluding to. We're trying to find the lander. And thanks to some good relationships here, we were able to shift priorities, because we have certain priorities. Everybody is on the...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Shifting priorities. The guy helped land a robot on a comet. I think he can find a new shirt. Made the comment during a comet update online from the European Space Agency. Let's move on.

Hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And you're watching CNN on this Friday.

We have President Obama saying it's going to happen. Republicans will fight -- quote, unquote -- "tooth and nail" to make sure it does not. The president today speaking from Myanmar saying he will order sweeping changes to the immigration system, thus halting millions of planned deportations.

He said Congress could have fixed immigration already and in fact he said should have fixed it already, but House Republicans have thus failed, saying -- this is from the president today in Myanmar. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I gave the House over a

year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so.

And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if in fact Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that's going to happen. That's going to happen before the end of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Those are fighting words when you talk to Republicans. House Speaker John Boehner says on this one he will indeed fight the president up to across-the-board defiance.

Another House Republican, Joe Barton of Texas, has suggested the House GOP could impeach the president, impeach the president for alleged abuse of power. Little facts here. Executive orders, by the way, they are not that uncommon. Look at the screen and you can see for yourself. You have Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Bush two, all of whom issued more executive orders than Barack Obama has.

And we came across this question. It was actually submitted a while ago. This is from the nonpartisan Web site. This is FactCheck.org. The question is this. Has Barack Obama signed 900 executive orders, some of which create martial law? It's the question. Apparently, it's asked a lot.

The answer, no. Obama's executive orders do not create martial law. He has signed 100-plus executive orders and not 900. Again, FactCheck says this is a question they get a lot.

Michael Smerconish with me now of CNN's "SMERCONISH."

Good to see you again, by the way.

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks for having me back.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with why thus far has it really been House Republicans who have said no, no, no?

SMERCONISH: Because it suits their constituency. They were elected in hyper-partisan congressional districts. I think many of us have a tendency to say why do they never compromise? When they go home, aren't they held accountable?

Overlooking the fact they are going home to constituents who want exactly that. They are giving them what they want.

BALDWIN: That's the base.

SMERCONISH: That's the base.

But there are so few competitive congressional districts that are left in the country, Brooke, because the lines have been drawn by partisans for R's and for D's.

BALDWIN: They're not thinking ahead to 2016, gee, it would be really nice to get some of these Hispanic voters if I want to grab the White House.

SMERCONISH: Great point.

They are thinking ahead to 2016. But they are thinking ahead to 2016 to get themselves reelected and not to win the White House, because to your point, if they were thinking about the White House, I think they would sing a different tune.

I interviewed Neil Newhouse recently. He was Mitt Romney's pollster recently in the last presidential race. Mitt Romney received 59 percent of the white vote and Neil Newhouse told me that the next Republican candidate because of the changing demographics in the country will need to get 64 percent of the white vote. It's untenable.

The GOP needs to expand its base, needs to reach out to the Hispanic community. And that's why the party is on a perilous path.

BALDWIN: Maybe that's what the Republicans could, should maybe be thinking about. On the flip side, you think about Democrats and we just put the graphic up there about the executive action. This is something that Republicans have been hounding and hounding and hounding.

But why aren't the Democrats saying, hey, our president, President Barack Obama, has issued fewer than all of these presidents with the exception of Bush Sr.?

SMERCONISH: You raise a great question. I think it extends beyond immigration to all of the issues. Where were they in support of him in the midterm election?

They decided not to cast their lot with the president because his numbers are in the tank and therefore they all have run for cover. Maybe it would have been a different election if they had stood tall and put up a good fight.

BALDWIN: Would have, could have, should have. We move on. One of your solutions -- I was watching you this morning on "NEW DAY" and you also were tweeting about how maybe one solution could be the president puts forth this executive action, doesn't implement it, waits, because we know the Republicans want to wait until they get their red seats in the Senate, right, and then they can put something up that perhaps, compromise, right, thus then superseding what the president had put forward.

Do you think -- you say, yes, that would shed the party-of-no image. Do you actually think that will happen?

SMERCONISH: Well, the burden is initially on the president, right? Because if he signs an executive order that has immediate consequences, then it will be him who is perceived as being uncompromising.

I think the win-win for all of them is that he does something, but says there's 60 days on the clock. There's 90 days on the clock and then the ball is in the court of the GOP to have to pass something in the House. Remember, the Senate has passed something.

These Republicans who are unhappy, nothing stops them even in a lame- duck session from even picking up that mantle and passing something in the House. A lot of those machinations are about to play themselves out. This is going to be an interesting time period where normally there would be boredom in Washington.

BALDWIN: Wouldn't that be a nice way to start 2015?

SMERCONISH: It would be great, wouldn't you think?

BALDWIN: Set the tone. Harbinger of things to come.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: But there will be two battles. There's going to be a battle between R's and D's and there's also going to be a battle among R's because within the Republican Party, a big disagreement as to which way to play this.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, thank you, sir, for being with me. Make sure you watch this guy this weekend, Saturdays, 9:00 and 6:00 p.m. Pacific here on CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now to this, small planes, these small planes spying on your cell phone calls. But it's actually the who. It's who is controlling these planes that's getting a lot of attention today.

If you pick up "The Wall Street Journal," this is their reporting, that the DOJ, the Justice Department is flying these small planes all around the country that carry a device that mimics cell phone towers. The equipment tricks nearby cell phones into connecting into these planes instead of a real phone company tower.

Why is this happening?

Pamela Brown, let me bring you in, in Washington to explain this for me.

I know this is supposed to target criminals, felons, but what does it mean for you and I?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. It is. That's the whole point of this program is to target the bad guy, to pick his cell phone information up to find out where that person is located, but it also affects other people because through this device that you just explained so well, Brooke, this device that mimics a cell tower, it has to pick up a lot of other people's information as well, the data from their phones in order to pinpoint where the criminal is.

Let me try to break it down for you here. According to "The Wall Street Journal," this device is known as a dirtbox. They're supposed to, as we said, pinpoint the location of criminals, but there is a catch. The system picks up a ton of data because it's basically looking for a needle in a ha haystack, but to find that needle, it has to go through all that hay.

The planes fly with the special equipment that mimics cell towers and scans thousands of phones and when it finds the criminal's phone, the equipment locks on and uses that information to find a suspect's location. This device is similar to commonly used cell site simulator equipment known as the Stingray. This is commonly used by law enforcement officials.

We have been speaking to government officials today, Brooke. They say the equipment is intended to be used in defined legally authorized purpose. That's key there, legally authorized purpose in serious violent crimes. We reached out to the Department of Justice. In a statement, it would not confirm nor deny the existence of this technology but says investigative techniques which the Marshals Service uses are for the apprehension of wanted individuals, but to conduct domestic surveillance or intelligence gathering, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Pamela Brown, thank you very much.

BROWN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Now I want you to take a look at a map. The map tells a story. ISIS still in control, not losing ground. Not gaining it either. Is this it? Could this be the beginning of the end for ISIS? My next guest says the terror group may have peaked. He will cite examples as to why.

Plus, you have been following this with us, these 43 students kidnapped and now feared dead. Today, a mayor facing charges. This as his wife is being called the first lady of murder.

And as Ferguson, Missouri, prepares for a grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case, we're getting word that schools will get a heads- up. They will get a special warning. We will talk about that ahead. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Six weeks now of airstrikes on ISIS militants and the U.S. still hasn't taken out their main man, leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. For all of the coalition strikes and fighting on the ground, if you look at the map here, ISIS still has not lost much ground, still controlling huge swathes of both Iraq and Syria. But they're not really gaining any ground either. So could this be the beginning of the end. Could this be it for ISIS?

Is it the peak of their domination?

My next guest, CNN executive editor Tim Lister, says it could be. Also joining me, Ali Soufan, former FBI agent who specialized in international terrorism.

Gentlemen, welcome to you.

But, Tim, let me just kick it off with you since this is initially your reporting. You write in this piece, saying it's really too early to tell whether ISIS has peaked. But I want you to give me two examples of ways they have been crippled.

TIM LISTER, CNN EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, the most important example, Brooke, came just in the last couple days where they really lost control of Baiji, which is an important oil refinery town north of Baghdad.

And it's a strategic crossroads. They have held it since, but gradually, after weeks of fighting and a lot of coalition airstrikes and even some drone strikes from the royal air force, they were prized out of Baiji and the Iraqi security forces now, with the help of Shia militia, it must be said, have taken the town and are trying to relieve the siege on the refinery, which is a very important source of revenue potentially for ISIS if they could get their hands on it.

That's one example. Another example is south of Baghdad, a town which ISIS had held for some time which was in a way on the route to Karbala, one of the most holy of Shia cities. That was held by ISIS. But now they have been kicked out of that town as well just south of Baghdad. They have suffered some reverses.

But you can't say they are on the run. They are under stress perhaps, but not on the run.

BALDWIN: So you cite these two examples.

And, Ali, I'm just going to turn to you and ask you this, because despite that though and, yes, they are not gaining ground, but they are still holding a lot of that territory. They seem very adaptable. They seem pretty good at bouncing back. Do you see that as well?

ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI INTERROGATOR: Yes, absolutely. It's too early to predict what's going to happen with ISIS.

Remember, most of the top leadership of ISIS are individuals who served in the Iraqi army, are Baathists. So, they are not only strategist, but they are great technicians if you want to call it.

So there are a lot of things still going on. Yes, we hit their command-and-control, yes, we're hitting their communication lines, yes, we're hitting and disrupting their supply routes. We are depriving them of the element of surprise. There's a lot of positive things that have been happening. But this is only one part of the campaign against ISIS. Remember al Qaeda after 9/11. We destroyed them in Afghanistan. We

hit their center of gravity in Afghanistan among the Taliban. So they switched their operation from being chief operators to being chief motivators. Instead of al Qaeda, for example, directing operations, they depended on affiliates and thus the ideology became the threat and not the organization.

We're seeing the same thing now with ISIS. Yes, they are being hit. It's not -- they didn't have the freedom they had before because of the coalition airstrikes, but this is only one part of that attack to dismantle and degrade the capabilities of ISIS.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you because one of the points you were making as you were getting miked, we were talking about this, was these different cells and different nations. We're focusing so much on Syria, right, but these different nations are all pledging their allegiance to ISIS.

SOUFAN: Sure.

ISIS at the beginning it was Islamic State of Iraq. Then it became the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. And even now, you and I today, we are calling it ISIS. Well, ISIS changed their name. Now they are the Islamic State. They consider themselves as a caliphate.

Today, for example, they are planning to do operations in Saudi Arabia. How do we know that? Because the leader of ISIS yesterday in an audiotape asked his operatives to start planning doing attacks in Saudi Arabia. That's outside the Levant. That's outside the Sham. That's outside Syria and Iraq.

He claimed that his state now is expanding to places like Egypt, to places like Yemen, to places like Algeria, to places like Tunisia. So we have to actually be careful that ISIS now they are not only focused on Syria and Iraq, they are trying as their leader said to erupt the volcanoes of terrorism and jihad everywhere around in the region.

BALDWIN: Ali Soufan, thank you. We will keep the conversation going. Come back any time. Tim Lister, thank you so much for your reporting as well. I appreciate both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And now to this, this new twist in the disappearance of dozens of students in Mexico. The mayor himself now indicted on these disturbing allegations about the deadly role he and his wife may have made and with these new charges come new clashes. We will take you live to Mexico next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Huge break in the case of 43 missing college students last seen in Mexico. This ex-mayor is now charged with homicide, attempted homicide and being the probable mastermind behind the students' disappearance in late September.

His wife, detained by police, is routinely described as the first lady of murder.

Rosa Flores has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Iguala city, they are dubbed the imperial couple for their exercise of power and influence in cartel territory. The power couple's throne came tumbling down when they became suspects in the disappearance of 43 students from a teachers college who arrived in Iguala on September 26.

(on camera): Halcones are informants who very nonchalantly observe their surroundings and tip off their bosses about what's going on. The mayor reportedly had cartel members on his payroll who after being arrested told authorities that the mayor paid them tens of thousands of dollars to be at his disposal.

(voice-over): On September 26, halcones and police officers reported to local authorities the students' arrival in four buses, according to officials.

(on camera): Their arrival raised eyebrows. The mayor's wife was scheduled to deliver a speech outdoors. The concern, this would be the backdrop.

(voice-over): The aftermath of last year's destructive protests held in part by the students from the teachers college.

(on camera): The word spread quickly, an internal radio message ordering police to stop or confront the students. The official word, it was coming from A5, the mayor's assigned radio code.

(voice-over): The mayor's posse, part of the more than 70 arrested suspects including police officers and cartel members, told investigators they assume the students would sabotage the event the mayor's wife was hosting.

Officials say the students were ambushed in the evening by police. Shots were fired and six people were killed, three of them students. Whether the mayor ordered the shooting remains unclear and what happened next has only added to the mystery.

The remaining 43 students were turned over by the cops to a cartel and never seen since.

(on camera): Here's where a possible misunderstanding took a sinister turn. What started as an idea by the mayor to possibly protect his wife's event, officials say, turned into a false battle between two rival gangs.

Authorities say the leader of the cartel confessed that on that ill- fated day, one of his cronies told him that the confrontation here in Iguala was with another cartel. The leader thought he was defending his territory from an enemy, but instead it was students in the crosshairs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: All these new details.

Rosa Flores joins me live from Chilpancingo, Mexico.

How are these protesters, Rosa? How are they reacting to news of these charges?

FLORES: It might surprise some people, Brooke, but I talked to one of the spokespersons for one particular group because there are several and they say, you know what, this does not impact what they're doing on the ground at all. All they're asking federal authorities is for the mayor and his wife to be questioned and for them to divulge information so that these 43 students can be found -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Rosa Flores, thank you so much. Let's stay on the story. I appreciate it in Mexico for me.

Coming up, when the grand jury decides whether to indict that officer who killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown, one group will actually be the ones to find out before anyone else, not just a little earlier than we here in the media, but up to 24 hours' advance notice. Just who that group is may surprise you. The answer is next.

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