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CNN TONIGHT

Early Snow, Bitter Cold Pummel Midwest; Ferguson On Edge; ISIS Fighters Joke About Selling Girls; Rocky Mountain High; Pot Problem In Washington, D.C.

Aired November 10, 2014 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It's 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. There's a lot going on around the world and we're going to get you up to speed on everything that you need to know.

In Ferguson, Missouri, first, police stocking up on tear gas. Some residents are stocking up on guns in the days before the grand jury decision on whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

Meanwhile, reports from Iraq that the leader of ISIS may have been hit in a coalition bombing. Is it a turning point in the battle against terrorism or terrorists?

Plus a burning question in this country. Is America going to pot? We're going to debate the pros and cons of legal marijuana.

And why a bomb cyclone is about to spread bone-chilling cold across a whole lot of this country. We've got a lot to get to, but I want to begin with the severe weather threatening a big swath of the country right now.

And who better to talk about this in the CNN Severe Weather Center is our Chad Myers. What is a bomb cyclone, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, it was an old cyclone, an old typhoon almost. It's a hurricane that moved down up into the Alaskan area and when it was up that far it just turned into a big low pressure center that changed the jet stream and then it just pushed all this cold air down on us.

What goes up, which was a cyclone typhoon, must come down, and that is our jet stream. It went from 64 degrees today, Don, 64 was the high in Denver. The wind chill right now is 3. So that's what it's doing out there. That's what it's doing out here in the middle part of the country.

About a foot of snow in a lot of places across parts of Minnesota essentially north of Minneapolis, but it's done for Minneapolis now. The big snows will be across the U.P. of Michigan into Ontario in Quebec. It is the polar plunge. We're not going to use any other word because it's just a cold air outbreak.

You know what? The temperatures we're talking about here in January are going to look like a picnic. This isn't that bad. But what it's bad about is it's only the middle of November and people and pets aren't ready for it yet because the pets don't even have their winter coat in some spots.

The cold air's going this way and the warm air's going this way for one more day and then it all goes to heck. All goes to heck in a handbasket because we go from almost 70 on Thursday.

And I would say by Thursday afternoon in New York City, you're going to feel that front come by, bring you down about 20 degrees in two hours. Even in Oklahoma City the temperature went down 30 degrees in one hour. That's how vicious this front is -- Don.

LEMON: The sun came up today, though, in New York City, had to turn the air-conditioner on for a while.

MYERS: It will be 65 on Wednesday then all of a sudden it will be 20 by the weekend.

LEMON: Chad, look at this, this is dramatic video. It's out of Hawaii tonight.

MYERS: Pahoa.

LEMON: Yes. What happened?

MYERS: We have had a stagnation of this lava flow for weeks. We talked about this on "THE SITUATION ROOM" last week for days and days. All of a sudden the lava stopped and it started to harden. But then there was what's called a breakout. There was more lava coming down the lava tubes.

It broke out today and it finally got its first building, its first real structure. It went up in flames. Now, the family was out of there. They got most of their stuff out of there as well. But this is not over. This is how the Hawaiian Islands were made.

And this is going to go on for as many years as the Puuo vent there at Kilauea is over the hot spot and the flow is still coming down there in Pahoa. We wish those people well. But it's a slow- moving disaster, as they call it there -- Don.

LEMON: And Chad, we will be watching. Thank you, Chad Myers. Appreciate it.

MYERS: You're welcome.

LEMON: I want to turn now to Ferguson, Missouri a community on edge waiting to find out whether Officer Darren Wilson will be indicted in the shooting death of Michael Brown. The answer to that question could mean the difference between Ferguson remaining calm or exploding. Sara Sidner has more now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fear is building in Ferguson. Some shops now look like a hurricane is coming. Salon owner, Constance Garnett is praying for the best, but preparing for the worst saying she can't afford to take a chance that unrest will crash into the business she built here over 11 years.

CONSTANCE GARNETT, SALON OWNER: If they should come and loot our area, then it's going to cost us and it's already costly to us because we're losing clients.

SIDNER: Protests haven't stopped for three months on her street. But there's been no looting except for two tense days months ago. Bassem Masri is one of the most verbally combative protesters.

BASSEM MASRI, PROTESTER: As far as what's happened within the last 90 days people will know that if you have been paying attention there hasn't been any looting nor violence or whatnot. We've been completely peaceful.

SIDNER: If the grand jury doesn't indict Officer Darren Wilson for the killing of unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, people fear violence will erupt. West Florissant Street which looked like a war zone in August, not it looks like it's ready for more days of rage.

DAN MCCULLEN, BUSINESS OWNER: I hate the boards. I don't like them here, but I don't want my windows smashed out again.

SIDNER: Still, Dan McMullen works in his West Florissant business like he has for 20 years, but he's decided to buy a second gun capable of holding more ammunition to protect himself just in case.

MCCULLEN: So maybe I get trapped here or something and we've got to have a John Wayne shootout. You know, that's the silly part about it. Is that going to happen? Not a chance. But I guess could it? Because you know, I'm the only white person here.

SIDNER: At a gun shop near Ferguson, the manager says sales of firearms for personal protection are up about 50 percent. Both white and black customers are buying.

JOHN STEPHENSON, MANAGER: Every time that door opens we're seeing new faces every day, dozens of new faces coming in.

SIDNER (on camera): Do you think that's because of what's happened in Ferguson?

STEPHENSON: I think it is. I think people in general because it's spread beyond Ferguson now.

SIDNER (voice-over): The mayor of Ferguson says he's heard all about it too.

JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON MAYOR: The flip side of that is that every one of them I spoke to have went out and taken a training class, have went out and tried to learn the law.

SIDNER: Not everyone is convinced there's growing to be chaos at the Ferguson Burger Bar in Moore no boards.

CHARLES DAVID, FERGUSON BURGER BAR: I want to make a statement to the community that I'm here. I'm open. I'm not going anywhere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And another ray of hope. You know, when we were out and met up with the mayor and some of the protesters who are residents here they were working together this weekend trying to open up a community center called the Center For Hope and Peace.

They're hoping it will help bring that at some point down in on West Florissant. And I should mention also that the protesters over these past 90 days have been policing themselves for the most part. Yes, they've been in the face of police.

Yes, they've been screaming and hollering. But they have been trying to keep things from getting violent, telling anyone who's interested in being violent they're not a part of this movement.

LEMON: Absolutely.

SIDNER: Don.

LEMON: There's more stirring up mess online and social media than is actually going on in the community and we must keep that in mind and be fair to the people of Ferguson. Sara, you know, city officials, police officials reassuring business owners in any way about being able to control the situation?

SIDNER: Look, what they're saying is the entire city feels like it's holding its breath collectively. Everything seems to feel like it's on hold. Not a lot of things are going forward right now. They say they're going to do as much as they can to guarantee that the protesters have the right to protest and that the businesses have a right to protect themselves -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Sara Sidner, we will be there reporting on it. Thank you, Sara. Appreciate that. Now I want to bring in Judge Alex Ferrer. He's a former police officer, a former Florida circuit court judge and host of television's "Judge Alex." Good to see you, Judge.

JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": Good to see you too, Don..

LEMON: I want to ask you about Robert McCulloch, he is a St. Louis County prosecuting attorney, released a letter today advising that people not listen to speculation about a grand jury verdict date. Is the anticipation of the verdict and what might happen as a result damaging the process at all?

FERRER: I don't think the anticipation is going to damage the process. In fact, I can understand information being leaked because I can see the police being concerned about wait a minute, if there's no expectation of it going to possibly a no two-bill situation where they don't indict, then it's going to come out of left field. And being that the grand jury proceeding is a secret

proceeding, the police don't really the ability to come out and say this is the evidence that was presented and this is why the grand jury did not indict. So I think that there's a -- I'm totally against leaking information, but I think it's an understandable reason why things would be allowed to slip out like that.

I suspect that it may be true they may be heading for a no indictment. That being said I don't think it endangers the process in any way. The grand jury work in secret, they're going to hear the evidence.

They're going to hear -- there's been leaked statements there have been six or seven African-American witnesses, who support the officer's version but they don't want to be identified publicly.

There have been leaks that there's forensic evidence that supports the officer's version. If that is true then the grand jury is going to do what it should do.

If it's not true the evidence presented to the grand jury shows that the officer acted improperly then he should be indicted. And I don't think that the anticipation in the public is going to affect the grand jury's decision either way.

LEMON: And I think we should all wait to see what happens instead of trying to anticipate or speculate. Is there anything, though, Judge, that police and the prosecuting attorney and city officials that they can do ahead of time to try to thwart violence if any violence happens in the wake of an announcement, whatever that is?

FERRER: I think the police are trying to do what they can. I saw the chief marching with the demonstrators. Public demonstration like that is at the cornerstone of our democracy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They're doing the right thing.

The prosecutor can't really do much because the proceeding that he's conducting is really a secret proceeding. Other than perhaps, you know, being public about the things that he can answer questions about. The problem I don't think is the residents of Ferguson.

They may be angry if the outcome doesn't go the way they think it should. But I think that the violent troublemakers are the ones that are coming from the outside. There are a lot of people -- we know this in law enforcement. There are a lot of people that come into town in a situation like this.

And they will go to the Trayvon Martin situation, they will go to the Ferguson situation and they'll go to the next situation because they see it as an opportunity to stir things up and to take advantage of rioting and looting. That's just who they are, but it's not a reflection of the people of Ferguson.

LEMON: They have no skin in the game and no connection to the community.

FERRER: And they leave as easily as they came and they leave the community shattered.

LEMON: Right. Let's talk about the influx of weapons. I don't know if you saw that report into the community. It's been a concern. Even though that Mayor James Knowles downplaying it. Do you think that Ferguson will be forever more violent because of what happened there?

FERRER: I don't know that it's going to be forever more violent. I am concerned about the fact you have such an increase in gun sales. Not that there's anything wrong with people buying guns. I think certainly they're within their right to do that and perhaps they should do that given the violent outsiders that have come into town and the incidents they had in the past.

My concern is that when you have a high tension, high anger situation and you combine it with a lot of homeowners, who are trying to protect their homes and their properties with new guns that they may not be accustomed to, that they may not have been trained with, you know, police officers make mistakes in high tension situations.

I was a cop, and we get trained in shoot/don't shoot scenarios, and even we make mistakes. So imagine civilians who are grabbing a gun for the first time, a gun they're not familiar with, and all of a sudden are faced with a situation where they're scared. I'm concerned that we're going to have civilian on civilian shootings, unwarranted ones.

LEMON: Well, let's hope not. Thank you, Judge Alex.

FERRER: Always a pleasure, Don.

LEMON: All right, when we come right back, was a leader of ISIS hit in a coalition bombing? And could that mark a turning point in the battle against terrorists?

Plus the price of a slave, ISIS fighters' shocking jokes about their female prisoners caught on tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Conflicting reports tonight from Iraqi officials on the fate of the leader of ISIS. Iraq's defense minister claims that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was wounded in airstrikes on Friday in Mosul. But the interior minister claims Baghdadi was injured Saturday in a different town and the prime minister says he can't confirm anything.

So joining me now to talk about this, get to the bottom of it is Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst. Is he injured? Is he dead? What's going on here?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think there's significant skepticism about these claims from the Iraqi government, different claims from different ministries, different locations that he was meant to be -- and the Iraqi government hasn't got a particularly good track record of reliability on these things.

You'll recall when the Prime Minister Haider Alabadi was in New York in September, he claimed there was an ISIS terrorist plot against the New York subway. That was fairly quickly debunked after that. I think we're going to have to wait and see.

The Americans don't have very good intelligence on the location of the top ISIS leader. So I think quite doubtful that the Iraqis would.

LEMON: This type of info referred to as rumor intelligence? Is that --

CRUICKSHANK: Yes. And it may just be stuff that they've seen posted on Twitter, local reports that somebody's being killed, just the rumor mill, basically.

LEMON: Let's talk about what one expert says here. One expert says that Baghdadi as Khalif Ibrahim to maintain his religious foundation needs to be a whole body. If he loses a limb in his injuries, his credibility suffers. Would he still be able to lead this organization if he's not whole, if he's not intact, if he's injured?

CRUICKSHANK: I think if he's still alive, he's still got his mind intact, he can still lead this organization. I don't think it matters if he loses an arm or a finger or something like that.

LEMON: We have seen with the fight against al Qaeda that when you take on the leadership of a terrorist organization, a group -- their splinter groups, smaller groups somehow come into play. Could this type of dynamic, same dynamic happen in this particular situation?

CRUICKSHANK: What do you mean?

LEMON: Could the same sort of -- that people splinter off. If he is injured, if he has died contradiction he had they splinter off and become different groups?

CRUICKSHANK: I think that's possible. One of the things he's been able to do is create a coalition in ISIS between the hard-line ideologues, the religious folk, and also the Saddam Hussein era military officials, some of whom he was able to recruit in Camp Booker, an American detention facility he spent some time at. So it's a coalition between these two different groups. If he's killed, it's possible that that coalition could fracture certainly.

LEMON: Let's move on and talk about these -- I'm sure you've heard the audio of low-level ISIS fighters talking about slave trading Yazidi women. It's very disturbing. We'll take a listen and then we'll talk about it.

(VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Even if they're joking and they're talking about selling girls here, it's horrible. What's going on here?

CRUICKSHANK: It's absolutely repugnant. Not clear exactly what's going on in the video. But it's very well documented by now that ISIS captured hundreds of Yazidi girls and they provided them to their fighters as sex slaves. And they boasted about this in online communications, their online magazine "Darbak," saying to bring them back to glorious Islamic days of the past. So they're quite open that they're doing this that they're providing their fighters with hundreds of sex slaves.

LEMON: Some of them as young as 9 years old. Is that a recruiting tool as well?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's absolutely atrocious and there are accounts of young girls as young as 11 being raped as well, but that providing them to the fighters as a recruiting tool to sort of motivate them. And some of these young fighters are welcoming these new brides, but obviously abusing them in horrible ways.

LEMON: What is the next phase here in this fight against ISIS?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I think, you know, it's that the United States has been able to stall its momentum to some degree in Iraq and Syria and they're trying to train the Iraqi Army up to retake parts of Iraq that ISIS controls. But it's going to be a long fight.

And Retired General John Allen, who's coordinating these efforts, says it's going to take about a year to train the Iraqi Army to retake Mosul. And you'll recall in 2007 at the height of the U.S. surge when there were 170,000 U.S. combat troops in Iraq, it took them months and months and months to break the back of al Qaeda in Iraq.

Well, ISIS are even stronger than al Qaeda in Iraq were then and no U.S. combat troops on the ground. So this is going to be a real uphill task, a challenge that's going to take many years. And that's just Iraq.

Syria's going to be even more difficult than that because the United States doesn't have any partners on the ground in Syria. The moderate opposition was just routed a few weeks ago by Jabbate Al- Nusra, this al Qaeda affiliate. So it's going to be very hard indeed.

LEMON: That was my next question. In the meantime as they get up to speed ISIS gets stronger as you mentioned. Are you optimistic about the coalition being able to deal with ISIS and rout ISIS out? Is it possible?

CRUICKSHANK: I think it's going to be very, very challenging. I don't think it's certain that they will prevail anytime soon. The warriors, while they still have this terrorist safe haven, they could plot a terrorist attack against the United States.

It's going to take about a month -- sorry, about a year to go after them in Mosul. That means they're going to have a terrorist safe haven in the north of Iraq for at least another year, time and space to plot terror attacks in the west.

LEMON: Yes. Paul Cruickshank, appreciate you. Thank you. Up next, growing marijuana in Colorado is big business. Now that recreational use of pot is legal. We're going to tour a facility where the art of growing pot plants has become a science really. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Big change in New York City on pot possession. Beginning next week, police may give a ticket people possessing small amounts of marijuana instead of arresting them. New York's mayor says the current law disproportionately affects young people of color and an arrest record can impact a person's future.

Meanwhile, in Colorado, the sale of marijuana for recreational use has been legal since New Year's Day and it's now a big business. CNN's Miguel Marquez has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the green mile. We just finished it.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to Medicine Man, the most sophisticated marijuana-growing operation in the world, or so says its owner, Andy Williams.

(on camera): And in the world of marijuana, how big is this facility? How a big a deal is this facility?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a big deal. I don't think there's a better one in the world. There's bigger, but there's not better. Come on in.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): An exclusive look at an exclusive facility, with pot legal here, the art of growing now a science. Every element of every plant's life controlled to the smallest detail.

ANDY WILLIAMS, OWNER, MEDICINE MAN: So in the manufacturing process you want to control the inputs so that you have consistent output. So that's what we're doing with this. We're controlling one of the bigger inputs into the system, which is water.

MARQUEZ: And not just any old water. An industrial-sized reverse osmosis machine purifies this water down to -- solids from this water down to 1 part per million. Most tapwater has solids about 50 parts per million. These plants pampered in every way.

WILLIAMS: So what you see here are different flowers. There are four different flower rooms down here. Each of them has their own 15 tons, three different machines of atmosphere control.

MARQUEZ: Usually used to keep high-end computers cool, these computer room atmosphere control units have been repurposed for pot. Temperatures, humidity, and carbon dioxide, can all be monitored and adjusted. When anything is off even by a single degree, it's a red alert.

(on camera): What's happening right here now? Why has this gone red?

WILLIAMS: So if you press this alarm button, it will tell us that the air temperature's too high according to our settings. MARQUEZ (voice-over): The room is 77.1 degrees. These plants get 76 degrees. In this first year, Williams expects Medicine Man to bring in about $9 million. He estimates gross income will more than double in year two, business booming.

(on camera): So this is the new Medicine Man?

WILLIAMS: This is it.

MARQUEZ: Retail only?

WILLIAMS: Yes. I already see the completed project. I know you see something less than that, but I see it in my mind.

MARQUEZ: I see a former Arby's and a former Mexican food restaurant, and you see a pot shop.

WILLIAMS: I do. It's going to be so gorgeous.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): His new establishment set to off in November will be for recreational pot only. No medical marijuana here. In July recreational sales outdid medical for the first time ever. Most expect the recreational business to keep booming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The demand in the state we consider to be about 130 metric tons.

MARQUEZ: A 130 metric tons the same weight as NASAs yet to be built and ginormous SLS-130 rocket. The 130 metric tons is the demand for both residents and tourists for all types of weed, recreational, medicinal, and even the black market stuff. Because legal pot is still expensive here, as much as 500 bucks an ounce, the black market thrives.

BARBARA BROHL: We believe that about 55 metric tons is being supplied by the black market. Then there is about 80 or so metric tons that are being supplied by us.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Barbara Brohl is overseeing implementation of Colorado's grand marijuana experiment. The state is now allowing more growers and retail shops to enter the market, every step, Economics 101.

BARBARA BROHL: We have to be really careful because what we really want is supply and demand to be equal because if you have too much supply prices drop.

MARQUEZ: Making it possible Colorado pot could move into other states. If the supply's too low, the black market keeps flourishing. The new market here is still a work in progress.

(on camera): What are we looking at here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So this is our chemistry lab.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Genifer Murray, founder and president of Can Labs, has a front row seat in this new industry. Her Can Labs has quadrupled in size over the last year as regulations for testing and controlling marijuana products have kicked in, testing everything from pot strength to contaminants to portion control.

GENIFER MURRAY, FOUNDER, CAN LABS: Four years ago edibles said 1x, 2x, or 3x. We didn't know what the x was, but that's where it started. So we've definitely progressed.

MARQUEZ (on camera): What will it say today?

MURRAY: Today, it will give you a-milligram per gram.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Truth in pot advertising controversial here. First exposed by the "Denver Post's" the cannabis, some edibles contained too much of the drug, others way too little.

RICARDO BACA: Many of these 100-milligram labeled packages had less than one single-milligram. One of the manufacturers out there was ripping people off.

MARQUEZ: Growing pains for a new industry, Colorado's cannabis culture getting higher and being watched closely around the world. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Denver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Very, very interesting. Voters in Washington, D.C. have approved a ballot measure legalizing recreational use of marijuana. But up next, we'll see why the will of the voters could be blocked by Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Washington, D.C. voted last week to allow anyone over 21 to possess up to 2 ounces marijuana for personal use and to grow up to six cannabis plants at home. That vote may not be the end of it. CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns has more now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Washington, D.C. has a problem with pot. The district is on course to be one of the first in the country to legalize recreational marijuana use under new laws voted on last week. Pot advocates hope the district can follow Alaska, Oregon, Washington State, and Colorado in making recreational use fully legal.

KEITH STROUP: I'd be delighted if a year from now this has actually been implemented and it's passed review by Congress.

JOHNS: That last step could end up killing the recreational movement's buzz because what goes on in D.C. is not just up to the voters. The constitution says Congress has a big say in district business. Not all approve of legalizing weed, which the federal government still views as a so-called Schedule 1 drug, like ecstasy and heroin with potential for abuse and illegal to manufacture or distribute.

On the floor of the House, Congressman Andy Harris of Maryland has railed against even medical uses of marijuana.

REPRESENTATIVE ANDY HARRIS: Marijuana is neither safe nor legal.

JOHNS: The district had already decriminalized possession of small quantities of the drug. D.C.'s new law is limited, allowing up to two ounces of marijuana for personal use. No sales. A person can grow up to six plants at his or her residence.

It could be months before the city council figures out the final rules. One thing seems clear. The law on pot will be different on federal lands in Washington than it is in the city at large.

STROUP: Any place with federal land, that includes the mall, Capitol Hill, lots of other places around, marijuana will still remain illegal in those areas. So if a cop comes along, a federal cop, and sees you, they'll probably still arrest you or at least give you a summons to show up. So I think the change in the district is symbolic to a large degree.

JOHNS: Even that symbolism is a problem for opponents.

DR. HOWARD SAMUELS: It's our nation's capital. You know, to legalize it in our nation's capital I think gives a horrific message.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Over the years there have been many disagreements between members of Congress and people in Washington, D.C. would want the right to govern themselves free of interference. Marijuana now has at least the potential to be another one of those fights, and it remains to be seen how the incoming Republican-controlled Congress might view the law. So take a deep breath because it's not clear what will happen when all the marijuana smoke clears. Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

LEMON: All right. Joe Johns, thank you very much. Joining me now to talk about this, D.C.'s pot problem, is Ethan Nadlemann, the founder and executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, and Kevin Sabet, the president of Smart Approaches to Marijuana and author of "Reefer Sanity: Seven Great Myths About Marijuana." All right, you guys, you were fighting in the break. You were discussing.

Yes. Do you think, Ethan, that Congress has the ability to put the kibosh on D.C.'s pot --

ETHAN NADELMANN, DRUG POLICY ALLIANCE: Well, legally they could. But when you have a 70 percent vote of the Washington, D.C. electorate, and mind you, what D.C. did so far, it's not setting up a system to tax and regulate marijuana the way Colorado and Washington did two years ago o or Oregon and Alaska did last week.

There's not going to be a hell of a lot for Congress to respond to right now. I don't think they're going to want to step on D.C. over this.

KEVIN SABET, SMART APPROACHES TO MARIJUANA: So I think the worry is this is setting the stage for commercial retail sales. If this was just about the possession, that would be one thing. But a lot of D.C. council members and others have made it clear their next step is to start marijuana -- have marijuana --

LEMON: Is there sizable opposition there?

SABET: Actually, there's a pretty good opposition from the Black Church Movement. In fact, it's interesting. When I go down there and speak at this in Southeast D.C., which is much more impoverished, obviously, than northwest, the message is received much better than when I'm in northwest D.C. talking to kids at Georgetown who really just --

NADELMAN: We actually have some recent exit research on this. It looks like the southeast neighborhoods voted just about as much as the whiter neighborhoods as well. It was 65 percent to 70 percent.

And the interesting thing is there actually appears to be higher support in D.C. for a system of taxing and licensing and regulating it than it was for the decriminalization --

SABET: The message we've heard is that liquor stores have devastated the African-American community, especially --

NADELMANN: It's a more serious drug --

SABET: The last thing they want is another store, another basically intoxicant that's going to be disproportionately located in minority neighborhoods.

NADELMANN: Kevin, they already know marijuana is already being sold in the neighborhoods, it's generating criminal revenue and it's getting kids arrested.

SABET: Massively promoted as alcohol is, when you go after the most vulnerable, there are eight times as many liquor stores in poor neighborhoods in Baltimore than there are in upper-class white neighborhoods.

NADELMANN: You've got a good -- I think you should take on the cause of liquor stores.

SABET: Let's do it together. But the last thing they want to do is add to that problem.

NADELMANN: The fact is the majority of residents in Washington, D.C. both black and white want to end marijuana prohibition. They don't want people to be arrested. It's disproportionately black people getting --

SABET: Would you stop at decriminalization, then? Would you stop at not having the stores in D.C. if you proceed with what they voted on?

NADELMANN: It's nice watching you become a footnote in history.

LEMON: Can you guys give me some popcorn? I can just sit here and watch this movie. It's good, though.

SABET: This is about money, Don. If this was only about getting people out of jail we would stop at decriminalization. This is about getting a small number of people rich, basically creating another tobacco industry.

NADELMANN: You like the situation now where you've had gangsters making millions of dollars?

SABET: Not off marijuana.

NADELMANN: You say decriminalize it so you can keep the gangsters making money instead of taxing and regulating if --

SABET: The gangsters are still there in Colorado. They're thriving. They're there now under legalization.

NADELMANN: There's going to be money in this one way or another. Your preference is for the criminals to earn it. I say tax, it regulate it, license it, that's the way to do it. And fortunately, a majority of Americans are now agreeing with that approach.

SABET: The Gallup poll just had a massive reduction in support as you know, you've noted, Don, 51 purport versus --

LEMON: Let's talk about the studies and then talk about the science. We've had our Dr. Drew on. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has done research on this as well. And it shows, you know, for younger people when your brain is developing that marijuana may have some deleterious effects.

It may not be that great for you. But as you're an older person the studies show that alcohol pretty much is worse for you than marijuana. And so as I asked Dr. Drew, why isn't pot legal in most places and marijuana is? Because you talk about liquor stores a lot.

SABET: But alcohol has a long history of widespread accepted use in our culture dating back to before the Old Testament. The issue is it's been culturally acceptable. That's why it's --

LEMON: Hang on. Let me get this in. Let's say this. There's been an accepted use about a lot of things in our culture. That didn't make it right.

SABET: I'm not defending alcohol legalization. I'm saying the reason -- people are saying why is one drug that might be less harmful illegal than another drug, I don't know. But I think it's really a cultural reason. The issue is why would we add to our problems with another legal industry?

LEMON: So then why would we not make pot legal and then make alcohol not legal?

SABET: Well, because you can't make alcohol not legal, over 60 percent of Americans use alcohol, 7 percent of Americans smoke pot, we're about to legalize it --

LEMON: That doesn't sound like a good argument.

NADELMANN: That should stop you from taking on that cause.

LEMON: We'll be right back. Much more of this when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Has America gone to pot or should we think twice about legalization? Back with me now Ethan Nadelmann and Kevin Sabet. Kevin, now four states plus D.C. that have voted to legalize recreational marijuana and other states have it on the ballot. More states have it on the ballot. Is it inevitable?

SABET: I don't think it's inevitable. I actually think the reason we're seeing the eroding support nationally, although we saw Oregon and Alaska, which were -- go for this --

NADELMANN: Eroding support after 56 percent in Oregon --

SABET: Well, 51 percent versus the Gallup poll showing 58 percent last year.

NADELMANN: The Gallup poll as you know was an outlier last year.

SABET: Let me finish.

LEMON: Let him finish.

(CROSSTALK)

NADELMANN: Well, Gallup just showed a seven percentage point --

SABET: Look at that number right there, 51-47.

NADELMANN: And it was 58 percent last year. The reason you're seeing this reduced support is actually legalization in theory sounds a lot better than in practice.

In practice it's about the gummy bears, the candies, the chocolates, these big manufacturers as you just showed on your segment with these -- this kind of big marijuana business.

It's not about hippies smoking a joint now and then. I really could care less if a 50-year-old guy wants to smoke marijuana in the privacy of his own home. That's very different than what's going on --

SABET: You just want him to buy it illegally from criminals --

NADELMANN: No, he can -- what I don't want, though, is --

SABET: So you're happy with the gummy bears and the chocolates that are targeted toward kids --

NADELMANN: The Oregon voters --

LEMON: Answer his question, though. What do you think of the edibles like gummy bears and chocolates?

NADELMANN: They need to be better regulated. And what you see happening in Colorado and Washington right now are regulations to better control that.

SABET: They're not better regulated because of the industry.

NADELMANN: It's also a relatively new phenomenon. The industry has a pretty strong interest in regulating this stuff. The whole issue of the gummies and the edibles is it's going to become less and less of an issue.

The vast majority of people who take marijuana in an edible form don't have a problem. Unlike alcohol or opiates you don't die of an overdose. It's not a good doing to overdose an edible, but it's not dangerous --

SABET: Can you die of marijuana from a car crash, from falling off a building as the African exchange student did?

NADELMANN: If you have too much you're lying down. That's what you're doing.

SABET: I don't think that's what's happening.

NADELMANN: The interesting thing is in Oregon --

SABET: People drive.

LEMON: Not really, Kevin.

NADELMANN: You saw the opposition trying to make something of the edibles argument and the Oregonians said let's stop kidding around. Why have illegal edibles as opposed to legal edibles?

SABET: Because there weren't gummy bears before Colorado legalized and the fact that actually Colorado's had a tripling, it's not a joke -- in car crashes with people high on marijuana.

NADELMANN: And gummy bears, they're a contemporary version of the old marijuana brownies. Most of us went to college remember having a little too much --

SABET: Why not stop at letting an adult smoke marijuana in the privacy of his home or even grow his own versus starting this commercial market? There's a lot of money to be made in this, Don. It's about money. It's about creating another tobacco industry.

LEMON: He's talking about this is more of a libertarian approach that you're talking about, like stay out of my home, what I do in the privacy of my own home, just don't target -- don't have gummy bears. I eat a lot of gummy bears. And I'm a man of a certain age.

SABET: But when the serving size -- do you eat one leg of a gummy bear or do you have a whole bag?

NADELMANN: You would no doubt like that these things would be labeled properly, that you would know the dose and the potency. Under a prohibition model that's not going to happen.

LEMON: Aren't we making this tough, though? Because it's not legalized everywhere, right, and are we making it tough for employers and places that regulate --

SABET: The workplace issue is enormous. The issue of testing positive in the workplace is the safety issues. People saying wait a minute, I smoked on Friday night, now it's Monday.

NADELMANN: These are the arguments that used to carry --

LEMON: Go ahead.

NADELMANN: These arguments used to carry some weight. What you see is the vast majority of Americans now voting to legalize marijuana don't use marijuana. And you know what else? The people who want to vote to legalize marijuana right now, they no more want their kids to use marijuana than do the people opposed to it.

The bottom line is we see a massive shift happening in American public opinion in the last 10, 15 years. People say we want coms focusing on real crime, not busting young people for marijuana.

They're saying we want the government taxing and regulating it and using the tax revenue for things like education instead of the gangsters getting the money. That's the way. That's why two years from now watch for California and other states to begin to legally regulate.

SABET: These states are starting to legalize it the last couple years because also -- because money, $9 million was pumped in -- hold on into Alaska --

LEMON: Let him --

(CROSSTALK)

SABET: The $9 million versus 400,000 in messaging. I think as we live with the consequences of legalization, Don, there will be a backlash that proponents are underestimating.

NADELMANN: I'll agree with Kevin on one thing here. It is not inevitable. It is not inevitable. If people who think it's important for marijuana prohibition to end want it to happen, they can't think it's just going to happen by itself.

There needs to continue to be responsible advocacy. I wish I was sitting here with somebody from public health. My organization Drug Policy Alliance is bringing together people who are interested in marijuana legalization.

People from the medical field, the public health field, all of whom see an end to marijuana prohibition as a good thing and a necessary thing but want to do it in a responsible --

SABET: Sam has the major public health researchers in the country, the AMA, the American Society of -- they're all against your position.

NADELMANN: Who want to do it in a responsible way --

LEMON: Ethan, I remember speaking to you a while ago and you said you don't even smoke marijuana anymore.

NADELMANN: No, no, that was somebody else. I have been a responsible occasional consumer of marijuana since I was 18. It didn't start me from getting a law degree and a Ph.D. --

LEMON: I said you didn't smoke for a while.

NADELMANN: No, no. I've never been a daily consumer. I don't think people should consume it daily unless they have a medical need. But I think the notion of making it illegal and forcing people --

LEMON: What's this bong story you were telling me about?

NADELMANN: I think the emergence of vaporizers, so fewer and fewer people are smoking marijuana --

LEMON: I thought you said you hadn't smoked a bong for a while.

SABET: Daily use.

NADELMANN: No. Hold it. What I was saying is I think bongs are going out of fashion and vaporizers are coming in.

SABET: Daily use among high school seniors has tripled.

NADELMANN: Stop making stuff up.

LEMON: Thank you, guys.

SABET: To have making stuff up, Kevin.

LEMON: Hold on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We are spotlighting the top ten CNN Heroes of 2014 as you vote for the one who inspires you the most at cnnheroes.com. This week's honoree brings comfort to soldiers with a little help from man's best friend. Here's Penn Farthing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENN FARTHING: I've deployed to Afghanistan three times. We head out and spend hours on guard. We come back, and the dogs will be so excited to see us you forget that you're halfway across the world in a desert with hostile things going on.

On every single street corner in Kabul you'll find stray dogs. Looking after a dog or cat relieves stress in daily lives. So it holds true for a soldier as well.

When I was serving in Afghanistan I actually thought I was quite unique in looking after this dog. But I was wrong.

Once we came close to leaving, I knew I didn't want to leave them behind.

To date now the organization has actually rescued over 650 dogs or cats serving soldiers from around the world.

We help the stray animals out in the streets. There is a big problem with rabies. We're not just helping the animal. We're also helping the Afghan people.

When we get a call from a soldier, we have to get the dog from wherever the soldier is in Afghanistan to our shelter in Kabul. We'll neuter or spay the dog. We vaccinate it against a variety of diseases. Then the animal starts its journey from Kabul to the soldier's home country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I pulled cadence out of the crate I was just so excited. I was even more excited that she remembered me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe that they're here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's been such a help. She's a huge part of the transition being easier for me.

FARTHING: If I'd never met Malzad in the first place none of this would have happened. My connection with Afghanistan stayed alive because of Malzad. For me every time I look at him it makes me smile.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: The babies. Just one week left to vote for CNN Hero of the Year. You can go to cnnheroes.com to vote for your hero. Who inspired you the most?

All ten will be honored at CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute hosted by Anderson Cooper on Sunday, December 7th. But only one will be named CNNN Hero of the Year.

I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for watching. Our live coverage continues now with John Vause and Rosemary Church at the CNN center in Atlanta.