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Nurse Vows to Break Ebola Quarantine; Israel to Hold Talks at White House; San Francisco Wins World Series; Cause of Rocket Misfire Investigated

Aired October 30, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Refusing to quarantine, the nurse controversially quarantined, told to stay in her own home in Maine vowing to take her fight to court. The state attorney general says the law is on their side. How far are they will to go? Is it too far?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And fight to survive, another Ebola survivor speaking out about the pain that he endured, how he was able to overcome the deadly virus and why he feels health care workers returning from the hot zone need to be praised not isolated.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: World Series champions. Thousands are taking to the streets to celebrate the San Francisco Giants clinching their third World Series championship in five years. The Giants dynasty reigning over baseball yet again.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's Thursday, October 30, 6 a.m. in the East, Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and I'm not staying home. And you can't make me. That's nurse Kaci Hickox, vowing to take her fight against home quarantine in Maine to the courts. State officials say, "Good. Let's go to court, and we will get an order forcing you to stay, because the law is on our side."

Now how about the facts? Remember, since returning from Sierra Leone, Hickox has shown no Ebola symptoms and has tested negative for the disease twice.

CAMEROTA: All this as President Obama gathered with healthcare workers returning from West Africa, some of them still within the 21- day window for possible exposure to the virus. The president says these Americans should be treated like heroes for fighting Ebola on the front lines.

So we have all of the angles covered for you, starting with CNN's Jean Casarez in Fort Kent, Maine. What's the latest there, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

This is the home right behind me that Kaci Hickox has voluntarily remained secluded in since she got back from New Jersey. But this small-town logging community is very divided. Some are saying that she doesn't have Ebola, she doesn't have the symptoms. They welcome her to come back into the community. But others are saying they just wish she would respect what the state of Maine is asking her to do.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE: It is not my intention to put anyone at risk in this community.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Just steps away from the front porch Wednesday night, quarantined nurse Kaci Hickox addressed reporters: thankful to be home but opposed to be forced to stay indoors. State officials are demanding Hickox abide by their 21-day quarantine.

HICKOX: We have been in negotiations all day with the state of Maine and tried to resolve this amicably. But they will not allow me to leave my house and have any interaction with the public, even though I am completely healthy and symptom-free.

CASAREZ: Hickox was released Monday from isolation inside this tent in New Jersey after treating patients in West Africa, then allowed to return to her boyfriend's home here in Fort Kent, Maine. State troopers standing guard outside.

STEVEN HYMAN, LAWYER FOR HICKOX: The governor is merely pandering to the fear that exists that supposedly she's contagious.

She has a right to live her life.

CASAREZ: Hickox tested negative for Ebola twice, but that is not stopping state officials from seeking a court order to mandate quarantine for a full 21 days.

MARY MAYHEW, MAINE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We feel strongly about the protocol that we've established, and we have grave concerns about the lack of leadership at the federal level.

CASAREZ: The state says Hickox is required to remain isolated at home until November 10. But she says she's not planning on it.

HICKOX: And I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

CASAREZ: Some residents in Fort Kent say they have nothing to fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's if only transferable by bodily fluids, I guess we don't really have anything to worry about, if you don't come into contact with her.

CASAREZ: But others are not so sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She comes here and she does that, you know, I don't want to bring it home.

CASAREZ: On Wednesday, Hickox wouldn't say if she would defy the mandate by leaving the house.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: And the next step in all of this today may be that legal battle in court.

The state of Maine has made its intentions very clear. That they will go to court to obtain an order so there is a mandatory quarantine, so she is forced to remain in a home for the duration of that 21-day period. They believe she could become infectious.

The attorney for Kaci Hickox tells CNN, "We have three days to oppose that order, and we're ready to do it" -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Jean, thanks so much for all that background. So for more on this quarantine, the legal battle shaping up in Maine, let's bring in Dr. Kent Sepkowitz, an infectious disease specialist and deputy physician in chief at Memorial-Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and a contributor for "The Daily Beast"; and Joey Jackson, HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. Gentlemen, great to have you.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. So the state of Maine wants her to stay indoors for 21 days, away from the general public. She is refusing to. Who is right, Doctor?

DR. KENT SEPKOWITZ, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: She's right on the scientific basis. I won't comment on the legal.

CAMEROTA: Joey will do that.

SEPKOWITZ: Joey will do that.

But certainly, medically, scientifically, she's totally within reason, and she's doing what I would do. Let's put it that way.

CAMEROTA: You would refuse to be quarantined...

SEPKOWITZ: Exactly (ph).

CAMEROTA: ... for 21 days after you came back from Liberia or West Africa?

SEPKOWITZ: Would I have the chutzpah that she has to do it, I'm not sure I'm that energetic. But she certainly is totally within her rights in terms of what the science says, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: How can the state make her stay indoors, Joey, for 21 days?

JACKSON: Alisyn, we're dealing with a public health crisis and a potential of proportions unlike what we've ever seen. Now, we can talk about the medical aspects of it. But one thing -- and those could be debatable. People are dying.

But one thing that's not debatable, Alisyn, and that's this: It could take 21 days for any symptom to manifest itself. What is 21 days in the span of someone's lifetime? You always want to balance individual concerns and liberties. And you want to recognize and respect her for the great work that she did for a month in helping people.

At the same time, you have to protect the public, and in balancing those liberties and priorities, I certainly think the state of Maine is on solid legal footing in saying, "Stay home."

CAMEROTA: So I'm just curious, Joey, if she leaves the house and tries to get into her car, what happens? The state troopers tackle her? They block her? Honestly, what happens?

JACKSON: Let's hope that they don't tackle her. But I think what they want to do is to keep her away from the public. Now we know and understand that it can't be communicated -- that is this disease-- unless there are fluids. But what if she happens to vomit? That's fluid, is it not?

And so we certainly think that the police would respect her and not tackle her or -- and treat her gingerly. But at the same time they're there for a reason, and that's to insure she stays home and outside of infecting, potentially, the public at large.

CAMEROTA: But Dr. Sepkowitz...

SEPKOWITZ: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... the public opinion is on Joey's side, not on your side. Let me show you the most recent polling on this. It's done by CBS News. They asked the public, what should happen to U.S. citizens returning from West Africa? OK. No. 1, allowed to enter if no symptoms is at 17 percent. Quarantined upon arrival, 80 percent.

SEPKOWITZ: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The public feels what's the big deal about 21 days.

SEPKOWITZ: I think that there's mostly a very important principle here. I think that, had we run a similar poll 25 years ago about HIV, should Ryan White, for example, the kid who had HIV in Indiana years ago, who was not allowed to go to school, the public would have said, of course, that's a good thing. Don't let the kid come here.

So I think showing that the public is panicked, is what your poll shows. Showing that the public is correct is a very different matter. So I don't think we should give in to you know, the majority of opinion on this.

CAMEROTA: Anxiety. I understand what you're saying. Our ethics don't always match up with the science of it. I understand.

Joey, the attorney general is considering filing legal charges against Kaci.

JACKSON: Sure.

CAMEROTA: What are those charges?

JACKSON: Well, listen, what the charges are, it's not so much charges to the extent that there's any criminality here, but what the attorney general wants to do is to insure that the quarantine is respected. To insure that the public health is otherwise protected here and that she doesn't go out and infect anybody.

CAMEROTA: But what are they called? I mean, what -- what crime is this?

JACKSON: It's not a crime. It's a public health law which entitles and allows the state to make reasonable regulations to protect the public. And so what the order will provide is that she simply stay home and that be enforced by the state troopers or any other law enforcement to keep her out of public view.

CAMEROTA: She says she's planning to challenge those charges. Who wins?

JACKSON: Look, you know what? I think if you're going to be a judge in this case, I think that you at this point exercise prudence and good judgment. You can't be wrong. And who wants to be the judge, Alisyn, that says, "You know what? You're not exhibiting symptoms right now. You're asymptomatic, so in light of that, we're not going to offend your liberty. Go out amongst the masses"? But what happens in the event that she's out amongst the masses and something breaks out or something happens?

CAMEROTA: yes. That's what happened with Dr. Craig Spencer here in New York. He was out among the masses, and then he came down with symptoms and, lo and behold, he tested positive for Ebola, Dr. Sepkowitz.

SEPKOWITZ: And no one has tested positive around him. I think that we should use what we've seen, both with Craig Spencer and also the cases in Dallas, which absolutely show that the mantra that, although doctors that you have on the shows keep saying, which is that you are not contagious unless you are symptomatic. You're not contagious unless you are symptomatic. How many times can we say it?

So I think that you had used the word "reasonable." And I will go back to that reasonable. I do not think it is reasonable to say that she poses a public health menace right now.

JACKSON: So doctor, she's asymptomatic at this point. Right?

SEPKOWITZ: Yes, yes.

JACKSON: But what happens in the event that you allow her out and she becomes symptomatic?

CAMEROTA: OK, what's your response?

SEPKOWITZ: As happened with Spencer?

CAMEROTA: Yes. SEPKOWITZ: Yes, yes, yes. The biology of the infection is known. Early in symptoms, the amount of virus that the person has is negligible; they are not contagious. It's only dying patients who are contagious. We've learned that. We've seen that. That is true. It's not a public health blitz on our part.

JACKSON: In any epidemic, or what have you, it takes one and it's the domino effect, and then other people get it. Why take that risk?

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Joey. I actually have to go, but the doctor has pointed out, Dr. Craig Spencer was out in New York City, a teaming metropolis, and nobody else has gotten sick.

JACKSON: That we know of at this particular point.

CAMEROTA: All right. Dr. Sepkowitz, Joey Jackson, thanks so much for the debate. It will go on. Appreciate it.

SEPKOWITZ: It will go on.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela for some more stories.

PEREIRA: All right. Let's look at your headlines, nine minutes past the hour. Good morning, everyone.

Rebel leaders say that more than half of Kobani is now under the control of ISIS. Hundreds of Kurdish fighters have been sent to defend the town. U.S.-led airstrikes have not been able thus far to drive ISIS militants out. Complete control of Kobani would give the terror group a critical strategic corridor along that Turkish border.

A delegation of top Israeli officials will visit the White House today to talk diplomacy. Now this comes during deepening tensions between Washington and Jerusalem. The Obama administration is trying to cool things down following an anonymous comment from a top U.S. official, mocking Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Our global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, is live in Washington following this -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michaela, President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu never really liked each other. They just aren't trying to hide it anymore. But beneath all the name-calling lies some pretty serious tensions on major issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT (voice-over): The long-simmering feud between the U.S. and Israel is getting ugly. One Obama administration official quoted in a recent magazine article, making the derogatory comment about Israeli prime minister Netanyahu, "The thing with be is he's chicken (EXPLETIVE DELETED)," the unnamed official said, adding, quote, "He's got no guts, refusing to make a deal with the Palestinians or Arab states."

Not surprisingly the White House was on the defensive. JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Comments like that do not

reflect the administration's view, and we do believe that they are counterproductive.

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The relationship is not in crisis. The relationship is actually fundamentally stronger in many respects than it's ever been.

LABOTT: Netanyahu shot back that he was under attack for simply defending Israel. But he praised his country's deep connection with the U.S. That deep connection, however, is being severely tested.

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT: No two allies agree on every single issue and when we disagree, we raise it as friends do, but we believe the best place to do that is privately.

LABOTT: Tensions boiled over earlier this year with the collapse of the Arab/Israeli peace talks and Israel's invasion of Gaza.

Israeli officials openly attacked Secretary of State John Kerry's failed diplomatic efforts. And the U.S. remains angry over continued Israeli settlement construction.

House Speaker John Boehner called the comments disrespectful and demanded the administration official who made them be fired, saying, quote, "The president sets the tone for his administration."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT: And another big sore spot in the relationship is the nuclear issues with Iran and the nuclear negotiations. That November 24 deadline for a deal is approaching. The Israelis have watched with great concern about a deal they think won't put enough curbs on Iran's nuclear program. And the White House has indicated they will try to bypass a vote on the deal with Congress, where Israel's support is the strongest. So another potential friction point, Michaela.

PEREIRA: We'll see what comes out of these talks, if they're able to ease tensions between the two nations.

Elise Labott, thank you so much.

Well, we're only five days away from the mid-term elections and what could be a disaster for Democrats, even in typically blue states. Party officials scrambling now at the last minute to defend endangered House incumbents in states like California, Massachusetts, New York and Illinois, states President Obama easily won two years ago.

Only four incumbent Republicans are believed to be in danger of losing Tuesday, as opposed to 23 Democrats.

It has been two years now since Superstorm Sandy ravaged the East Coast. The anniversary of that disaster yesterday. One voter certainly not happy with the way New Jersey Chris Christie has handled his state's recovery since then. That man stood up with a sign during a speech that Christie was giving yesterday honoring the anniversary. You probably anticipate what happened next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: So listen, you want to have the conversation later? I'm happy to have it, buddy. But until that time, sit down and shut up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: As you might expect from Governor Christie. The heckler was identified as a former councilman from Asbury Park, so I sense there's some history there.

CAMEROTA: He wasn't actually being vocal. He was just holding up the sign. Does that warrant the...

CUOMO: He was being vocal.

CAMEROTA: He was? Before that he was actually heckling?

CUOMO: Yes. He wasn't heckling. He was protesting.

PEREIRA: He was speaking.

CAMEROTA: He was speaking, OK. All right. That would make me feel better about the "shut up."

Vintage Christie.

CUOMO: That's why people love him, though.

CAMEROTA: Of course. It's very Jersey. There's something refreshing about that.

PEREIRA: Are you going to say something like that?

CUOMO: Jersey and refreshing, there's a combination you don't hear every day.

All right. So the kings of baseball this morning are the San Francisco Giants. They beat the Royals 3-2. What a series, down a game, seven thriller. Third World Series title in the past five seasons.

Pitching ace Madison Bumgarner, what a name, right? He was the star again, named series MVP. The good times, as too often happens when dumb people get things they should want. Trouble in the streets of San Francisco. Fans setting fires, throwing rocks and bottles at police. Two reports of people being shot.

Andy Scholes live in Kansas City to break down the World Series finale. Let's stick with the positive here. Three championships in five years. Pretty strong, Scholes, and you got to be at the game. Extra strong.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN BLEACHER REPORT CORRESPONDENT: It was exciting stuff, Chris, and you know when we start talking about this Giants team, we've really got to start mentioning that they're probably a dynasty. You know, not only have they won three World Series championships in the past five years, they did it by doing something that no team had been able to do in 35 years. That's win a game seven on the road.

And their ace, as you mentioned, Madison Bumgarner, Mad Bum, as they call him. I mean, what can you say about this guy? On two days' rest he came out and pitched another five shut-out innings, sealing the win for the team in game seven. He's your MVP after one of the most historic post seasons we'll ever see.

And you know, when you talk about the greatest teams in baseball history, this Giants team is definitely in the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MADISON BUMGARNER, GIANTS PITCHER/MVP: It's one of those things happen, you know. In five years, to have three rings, many guys in the hall of fame, being in that situation, never happen.

PABLO SANDOVA, GIANTS THIRD BASEMAN: It's pretty hard for us to find something I think with the period in the game right now, three in five years is pretty special.

SCHOLES: Three in five years, is this team a dynasty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think could you look at it that way. I think, you know, two years ago when we won it, we looked at it that way. But if we can put a stamp on it with this year, I think that's something special. And not a lot of people can do that.

SCHOLES: Does this ever get old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It never gets old, man. Look at this. It doesn't get old.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: So for the Royals it was definitely a disappointing ending. You know, they were on the verge of completing one of the greatest runs in professional sports history. The fans obviously sad they didn't win it all, but still very proud of this team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't even believe it. It's just -- we're just happy to have been here, obviously. It's just pretty surreal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was great to get here, but heartbroken. I wish we could have seen the win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Guys, I was hoping for a NEW DAY party in the parking lot this morning, but as can you see, it's a pretty somber mood. The only party was in the Giants' clubhouse last night. Lots of champagne going everywhere. I still reek of it, along with some beer. I definitely need to go wash these jeans and get a shower pretty soon.

CAMEROTA: We say that. You were wearing your protective gear. Wow.

PEREIRA: That's fantastic.

SCHOLES: I went and bought a Chiefs poncho, because I knew that was going to happen.

PEREIRA; Were there a lot of San Francisco Giants fans there in Kansas City? I wonder.

SCHOLES: You know, there was a lot of friends and family and you would see them speckled into the stadium. Because everyone in Kansas City was wearing blue. So the orange definitely stuck out.

PEREIRA: That's fantastic. What a win. I'm so excited.

CUOMO: Kansas City is back.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: They've had a long dry spell of being in contention, so they have a lot to be proud about. Unlike Andy Scholes. Wearing the slick in the locker room? It's a violation. You know it's a violation.

PEREIRA: Come on. What, a violation?

CUOMO: And you were complaining on Twitter about getting champagne in your eyes? Come on, Andy.

PEREIRA: What about -- what about the players that were wearing goggles? You're not going to call them violating man love.

CUOMO: That's part of, like, the esthetic now that they put it on, because they're actually getting sprayed in the face. You should have taken it in the face and liked it.

PEREIRA: Andy, don't worry about it.

SCHOLES: When that first boom happened and all the champagne went everywhere, I took it right in both my eyes...

CUOMO: I respect that.

SCHOLES: ... and nearly hit the floor.

CUOMO: Come on.

SCHOLES: It was brutal.

But it was fun. Fun and brutal at the same time.

PEREIRA: Have you had champagne in your eyes?

CUOMO: I've had a lot of champagne in my eyes. And I take it. I take it. My eyes burn.

CAMEROTA: Macho.

CUOMO: I get fuzzy vision and I like it.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for that. We'll test that later after the show.

Meanwhile, what went wrong here? This is what investigators are trying to figure out this morning. They're assessing the damage from a rocket that exploded seconds after launch. We have a live report on all the developments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: An investigation this morning to determine what caused the catastrophic explosion that destroyed this unmanned NASA rocket you're about to see. Investigators from the NASA -- from NASA and the Orbital Sciences-- that's the company that built this rocket -- are assessing the wreckage and trying to figure out what went wrong here.

CNN's Athena Jones is live in Wallops Island, Virginia, with the very latest -- Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Some 50 to 60 people were out looking for potentially thousands of pieces of debris from the exploded rocket yesterday. They'll be out again today. It's a big job, one that could potentially eventually include people diving into the waters in the marshlands around here to get to some of the pieces. It's all part of an effort to find out what went wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): Picking up the pieces in Wallops Island, Virginia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

JONES: After a massive explosion Tuesday night destroyed a rocket heading to the International Space Station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.

JONES: It was 6:22 p.m., launch time for Orbital Sciences' Antares rocket. But just seconds after lift-off, a catastrophic failure that stunned eyewitnesses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God!

J.D. TAYLOR, WITNESS: We saw the rocket starting up and everything was looking good for the first couple seconds. And then it was fairly quickly you could see something was wrong.

JONES: The $200 million rocket and the Cygnus cargo space craft was carrying 5,000 pounds of food, supplies and science experiments. Teams from Orbital, NASA and MARS, the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport, and others spent Wednesday searching for and collecting debris, the first step in figuring out what went wrong.

BILL WROBEL, DIRECTOR, NASA'S WALLOPS FLIGHT FACILITY: It really helps them kind of reconstruct what happened.

JONES: Orbital will lead the accident investigation, working with NASA and others. That review is only just beginning, company officials said on a conference call with investors.

DAVID THOMPSON, PRESIDENT/CEO, ORBITAL SCIENCES: Well, we still have a lot of work to do in the days ahead to analyze all of the telemetry and video data; to review the recollections and notes of the participants in the operation.

JONES: Thompson said the engines used in the rocket's propulsion system have caused technical problems in the past, and that while it's too soon to blame them for the explosion, the company was already planning to replace that system.

WROBEL: You kind of go into a different mode, and that's the mode of all right, let's figure out what happened.

JONES: Meanwhile, another company, United Launch Alliance successfully launched a GPS satellite from Cape Canaveral Wednesday, proof that things go right more often than they go wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now, Orbital says they expect the investigation team to be able to narrow down the most likely cause -- causes of the accident. But it will take a little longer to zero in on the single root cause. And the company says it's still too soon to say how long the next launch, which was set for early April, might be delayed because of this accident -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Athena, thank you very much.

Let's bring in CNN space analyst and PBS science correspondent Miles O'Brien.

Miles, good to see you. The obvious curiosity here is in why this happened. But the reason it matters goes beyond this one event, right? NASA has had problems before with things that they've designed; they've had catastrophic problems. But this really goes to the question of who should be making the rockets, right? And do you believe that this offers any insight into that?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE ANALYST: Well, you know, a few generations ago, Chris, we called it a missile gap. There is a bit of a dearth of U.S. capability in this sector, if you will.

Chemical rockets that can take vehicles of this size to space, by and large, are coming from Russia these days. In the mid '90s, a decision was made in Congress and by the administration at the time to purchase a lot of Russian rocket engines, because there was some concern that Russian rocket scientists would sell their wares to North Korea, let's say. And so the commercial space industry became very reliant mostly on this RD-180 engine...

CUOMO: Isn't that an old engine?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: A larger engine. And that has put the commercial sector here in a bind.

CUOMO: Isn't that an older engine? Is that part of the calculus here in terms of what's going on? Even though we always think innovation when we think space, in fact that there is a lot of older technology still at play?

O'BRIEN: There's always a trade-off between the amount you want to put into research and development and the actual cost. And this was an effort on the part of NASA to try to foster a commercial enterprise in low-earth orbit.

And so a decision was made by the company involved in this case, Orbital Sciences, not to invest maybe a half billion dollars in the development of a new engine. Instead to purchase these 40-year-old engines that sat in a warehouse for a long time, refurbish them with the use of a company aerojet as part of that.

And so there was money saved doing that, clearly. But sometimes maybe you've got to do the groundwork and do the R&D to get something that's safe and reliable.

CUOMO: Help me understand it, Miles, because for me, space is always about the new frontier and pushing the limits. And expressly about research and development. It's not like they have to keep the trains on time up there, you know, and they have to make sacrifices.

Did we make a bad call going towards private industry? Should we still be in the space game? Was this a mistake?

O'BRIEN: Well, I think it's a good idea for NASA to be looking beyond low-earth orbit. That's -- the big picture here is, NASA shouldn't be spending its time and resources essentially driving trucks to the International Space Station or low-earth orbit. They should be thinking about going to Mars. That's what we pay NASA to do at this point. After all these years going to low-earth orbit, it's time that we gave it -- figured out a way for the private sector to do this more autonomously.

But it's tricky getting from point A to point B, and this is what we're seeing right now. There's going to be missteps along the way as this is forged.

You look at what has happened with SpaceX, the California-based company run by Elon Musk. They built their own rockets there, and so far they've been successful. So it can be done.

CUOMO: But you know, it's kind of sad in a way, Miles, you know. Space was started as an initiative to push human potentiality and, you know, see what else was out there. Now in just seems like it's being done low-budget.

Let's get to what the good news is in this situation. People are worried about the astronauts up in the space station. They're OK; they have provisions, right?

O'BRIEN: Yes, they're fine. Even if we couldn't get a freighter to them until March, they would be fine. And we just had one arrive from Russia safely just yesterday. And we've got two SpaceX launches coming up in December and February. They'll be fine.

CUOMO: Who knows? Maybe all this -- the new kerfuffle between the U.S. and Russia will make them rethink how much they do at home.

Miles O'Brien, thank you very much. When we find out more, we'll come back to you -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. The freelance NBC cameraman who contracted Ebola in West Africa tells us what it was like dealing with the deadly disease. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)